I have been playing a Jugg since private beta in July and mercs are now FINALLY a challenge in the right hands. Before I would straight up ignore mercs or just kill them quickly so I can continue on my rampage. Now I actually have to pay attention to what they are doing and even then it's still not that hard. They pop orange bubble, cc and move on and come back to them when it goes away. Exact same thing you do to a Jugg when ED or Reflect is up, a Sorc with bubble up, or a mara with undying rage up. All you will do is waste your time, attacks and maybe even heal them depending on what they are. It really isn't all that hard.

as said, thats for the reflect. that itself is perfectly fine.

But jugs don't have an hinder, and 3 abilities to heal up, as well as force/tech 100% resist on 5 attack every 45 sec.

They don't have 2 spammable attack giving root snares to 30m. And just like reflect, ED has a counter, cc and move on, while Kolto overload doesnt, and will totally protect for 10 seconds.

Right now mercs are way too sturdy and survive odds for far longer than any other class in their position, even some tanks, while dishing very appreciative damage back. Played to equal skill, a merc will win over a jug any time.

Now of course not every merc is a good merc, so I still trash aplenty in WZ. But thats not a class failing, its a player one.

I can't blame you. For years commandos have been paperclips seriously underpowered defense wise.

 

Trolls and haters aside, this thread is for you all who are willing to learn and adapt. Some fellow commando & merc players will hate me for this but we are as easily countered as any other class.

 

Now I can't force you all to change but I can try to show you your errors and make you realize there is a way to win against a class which is finally equal to yours.

 

Bad habits die last.

Everyone is so fixated and trained like a dog running a parkour they don't realize what the hell kind of stupid skill spam they actually do on enemies commando / merc. Just because It worked in the past didn't mean it was ever a good idea.

 

Change is never easy and mostly not welcome but it's necessary.

 

 

Let me ask you some questions:

Do you spam all your hardcap and softcap CC on a bubbled sorc?

Do you keep firing all your damage abilities on a bubbled sorc?

Unloading all your damage rotations On a Mara running his massive Damage reduction?

Wasting all your burst on a doge roll scoundrel / Ops?

Do you keep spamming your ranged heavy hitters on a Jugg running his reflect?

 

....and so on.

 

Point is you are used to do it on commando & mercs for years because we really couldn't do anything about senseless CC stunlocks, interrupts and your own defense skills. Now we can, just like your fellow <insert other class>.

 

I now played roughly 50 matches since Saturday. In all those matches I 've nit seen a single player being mindfull of what ue actually does throw at me.

 

Juggs tanks and skanks and maraudes wasting all their cc for an initial stunlock jumping on me activating their own defense skills and then....well they die 30 seconds later disgracefully. But what do you expect throwing all your utility away in the beginning of a fight?. It worked before because you could wear the last breath down because we lacked all the nice things you have.

 

I could write now two essays over individual counters but I keep it stupid and simple.

Fight the bad habit and fight us like you fight a fellow sin/mara/jugg /ops rep side class.

 

We have defense skills now just like you and you can expect us to use then to maximum effect just like you.

Don' try to stunlock us / snare / root when we have our reflect, selfheal or free running up.

 

Remember you don't throw your stuns ob a low hp sorc when you know he has his bubble left and isn't a total derp.

 

Don't pop your combat stealth and immediate ambush us when we still have full hp. You don't do that on anyone else, don't do it on commandos and mercs anymore.

You must be terrible at this game to think this.

What a garbage thread and post.

The problem is that merc that know what they're doing know how to troll whom their focusing down to choose either break this stun/root and die or just die. I've done it and had it done right back. mercs are too tanky specifically when you're facing more then one since most play Arsenal they're standing back just doing damage and healing back most if not all the burst if they're smart.

I found it funny that mercs had better koito overload and shields compared to their sister class that's suppose to be all about using them. Where PT's have guard cannon heals 12-21% health, mercs have a shield that can heal 60%+ health. They have 3 ways to heal above 70% and they know it which make it hard to L2P when you your class just can't keep up unless your teammates are good and rng didn't screw somebody.

I love the updates to mercs I dearly do they just break the class in my eyes.

Mercs are currently OP, sorry to say. While the reflect itself is fine, its short enough, and it IS a L2P issue if you keep hammering on a merc or commando that has it on.

 

However lets take a closer look at mercs DCDs right now:

 

Kolto overcharge : Speed heal to 70% with an heroic utility, not even legendary, and pretty much a 10 second win button, because it heals fast enough to keep your health at 70% even when focused by 2-3 people (makes sorc's quick self heal look like a kolto shot).

 

To this, you add a 6 second total immunity to all direct damage, melee, tech, force and ranged (most other class with reflects have to spec into it with a legendary. SIn spend a legendary utility point to get their reflect (and will most likely leave either boosted shroud, phantom stride's assassinate proc or vanish heals to take it) and jugs have only 3 seconds baseline, legendary utility to spec it to 5, and it doesnt cover melee damage (on many classes, you just see the reflect and switch to that type of damage if you have it. Its a win button against ranged classes, but not an overall one).

 

Sin's legendary utility also only cover forces and tech, and its not an absorb, which is the big kicker.

 

And finally, sorc gets full immunity to all damage, but ccs themselves doing so. Also 3 minutes cooldown, have to spend utility points to get it shorter, vs 2 for merc's reflect.

 

on this, you can add a softer but quite effective dcd in energy shield, which also can spec to heal up to 75% of your health when it collapse.

 

This is all also availaible to merc healers, might be useful to say.

 

To this you add electro net, which can prevent stealth class from using their vanish, prevent ANY speed buff or gap closer, deals extra damage if the target even attempts moving for 9 seconds.

 

Then you add Hydraulic override, which breaks snares and roots and protects you from them for 6 seconds (10 if a masterful utility is selected, and in pvp, it should be).

 

Then you have 2 skillful utility to get a permanent 40% snare with your filler attack, and to transform missile blast into a root every 8 seconds (lot shorter than any other hard root in game).

 

You can also spec into cure if you wish to reduce your dot damage, but currently not too many dot spec in wz, so I wouldnt bother. But the option is there (100% uptime is possible).

 

Additionnaly, you have what used to be the top ability of the heal tree in 1.0 and 2.0 baseline in emergency scan. An instant, quite generous heal even for dps. You can also choose to sacrifice some dps by foregoing a railshot for an instant rapid scan.

 

And finally, you have the usual hard stuns, medpac, adrenal etc. Arsenal also have a BASELINE ability that makes their decoy a force/tech immunity for up to 5 attacks in 10 seconds (which, in a 1vs1 against say a sorc, means you have again another damage immunity against them for 5 GCD)

 

There is currently no tools in the game that a class has that merc do not have, safe perhaps stealth lol. On top of this, arsenal has very good damage, very good burst, is ranged (yes its important, because a lot of the previous tools can be used by melee to get to you, but you can also use yours to keep them away, and keep them slowed/rooted. They have their own cc, snare and root break, but mostly not as many as you, and most require a utilty point in masterful or legendary to exist, and are on longer cooldowns than your rocket out, assassins being the exception with the return of a short cd force speed) and do enjoy heavy armor, which gives them a slight blunt DR reduction vs many other classes.

 

 

There is no way a good merc will lose 1vs1 to another class assuming you play your cards right.

 

Now our saving grace is most merc you encounter in WZ aint that smart. But even when I see a player is bad, if its a merc I do have to think a bit about how to engage and how to play my cards right.

 

I currently main a deception assassin in pvp, which I can confess is a very strong pvp class as well, but I never have the tools merc have, and they have an answer for most of them, as well as numerous self-heals as mentionned, and not small ones either.

 

Now of course if you get caught pants down with all your dcds on cooldowns you get melted...don't ask for a buff for that, its the case of every single classes. Truth is merc are currently top dog by far in both pve and pvp dps wise. They are very desirable in pve for all the mentionned previous qualities, has they make very sturdy ranged dps, with very easy target switching and burst, generous aoe and reflect in pve can be used to deal massive damage to some bosses. Especially reflect/absorb, has it allows you to reflect damage you couldnt even think about standing on otherwise. (ex fire on karraga).

 

So something has to go sometime, and insisting everything is fine is only going to make the eventual nerfhammer harder.

 

But then again, with 2 out of 3 people in the dev team maining merc/mando, perhaps the class will remain the golden child of SWTOR. It certainly has gotten a few goodies and little to no nerfs with every big class balance patch of the last few years.

 

I personnaly think the reflect is fine, just balance both the merc's and jug's so that they stop standing in bad and getting **** numbers in pve. It also needs a small drawback somewhere or a duration reduction to 4 seconds. Also, the heal on damage should be a masterful or legendary utility, forcing a choice with something else.

 

But currently no class ever enjoyed as many DCDs or utility as merc does without being a tank spec at the very least, and never so many as powerful as they are.You can look around the other classes, and I can assure you, safe an AoE mez and stealth, there is nothing someone else can do that arsenal merc cannot do better right now.

 

I challenge you to grab a sorc and challenge a good merc to a 1vs1. Even if we could pit 4.0 "OP" madness vs current merc, I'm putting my money on the merc.

Well written and logical, but I suspect it'll on deaf ears...

Really funny. Only people who are defending the current state of mercs are either trash players who need such an OP class to actually perform somewhat well (which is proven by their ridiculously stupid arguments) or merc fanboys who were maining mercs all their life and suffered for it, now they want revenge on others, so they will say any lie just to keep mercs in the current state. Oh, and I forgot people who always play only FOTM classes, so shoutouts to all of you ex-sorc mains, aren't you feeling good now that you are merc mains, eh?

Every normal person sees that nerfs are needed and they will be coming. Just depends on Bioware. They can either make no nerfs and prove that they do not care about balance in this game. Or they can make clever little nerfs and leave mercs decent, just not brokenly overpowered. Or, as they usually do when they start nerfing, completely nerf the class to the ground. Wouldn't be surprised if we see Arsenal become the new Marksmanship. And to be honest, after these weeks and future months of merc meta, I wouldn't mind.

Really funny. Only people who are defending the current state of mercs are either trash players who need such an OP class to actually perform somewhat well (which is proven by their ridiculously stupid arguments) or merc fanboys who were maining mercs all their life and suffered for it, now they want revenge on others, so they will say any lie just to keep mercs in the current state. Oh, and I forgot people who always play only FOTM classes, so shoutouts to all of you ex-sorc mains, aren't you feeling good now that you are merc mains, eh?

 

Every normal person sees that nerfs are needed and they will be coming. Just depends on Bioware. They can either make no nerfs and prove that they do not care about balance in this game. Or they can make clever little nerfs and leave mercs decent, just not brokenly overpowered. Or, as they usually do when they start nerfing, completely nerf the class to the ground. Wouldn't be surprised if we see Arsenal become the new Marksmanship. And to be honest, after these weeks and future months of merc meta, I wouldn't mind.

While the poor powertech gently weeps.

People attacking mercs during the bubble is not what makes them OP.

Its the heal after the DR bubble and the buff to the ability that gains your life back super quick...forgot its name.

Those need fixing. The bubble is fine.

3 life bars + 30m attacks + high dps + all but one attack is instant + the ability to heal themselves + heavy armor base = OP

When juggs and maras were considered OP they did not have 3 life bars, did not have 30m attacks(not main ones), could not heal themselves.

When PTs were OP it was damage and mobility you could pin and burst them down still.

This is unprecedented OP-ness High damage range DCDs heals etc.

Its redic dic, if you dont think mercs are OP you:

Play one and cant play other classes

Are not fit for mensa at the very least.

[/right]fallen;9173661]Mercs are currently OP, sorry to say. While the reflect itself is fine, its short enough, and it IS a L2P issue if you keep hammering on a merc or commando that has it on.

 

However lets take a closer look at mercs DCDs right now:

It is not only 6s immunity from reflect.

By using reactive shield when FULL RESOLVED that could be 18s free casting - uninterruptible with util.

It is not for rerollers but a good merc is unstoppable. It is either Reflect or R shield utilities. Shouldn't be both.

While the poor powertech gently weeps.

Rip PTs in the rwzs.

I "l2p" Merc last night. I paid for a 65. Took 4 or so hours and got him to 70. With no set bonuses and no group mates (or healers) in the first wz I did top dps (with several other mercs in there) an established sniper (who is quite good) was a hair below me in dps.

And stats aside, we actually helped murder their healer over and over.

My point is,... I had ZERO idea what I was doing. I prime shot, then did my cast, then did the one u need vortex on to hit 25% harder, rinse repeat. It's the simplest rotation and easiest class. Any classes that easy and simple should have a lower dps ceiling. Period. Classes that have the best dps ceiling should be tricky to achieve, not cheesy. Your class is OP. Enjoy it.

People hear "so and so class is OP" and their first reaction is to go straight to the dps.

PSA guys, the dps didn't really change. The issue people have is with the dps combined with the new DCDs giving increased survivabilty.

My point is,... I had ZERO idea what I was doing. I prime shot, then did my cast, then did the one u need vortex on to hit 25% harder, rinse repeat. It's the simplest rotation and easiest class. Any classes that easy and simple should have a lower dps ceiling. Period. Classes that have the best dps ceiling should be tricky to achieve, not cheesy. Your class is OP. Enjoy it.

I play main defense and vigilence guardians which are arguably pretty easy rotation wise as well. My issue with mercs is less pure dps than survivability + dps. Give them a taunt and they'd be better tanks than VGs/PTs lol.

I can't blame you. For years commandos have been paperclips seriously underpowered defense wise.

 

Trolls and haters aside, this thread is for you all who are willing to learn and adapt. Some fellow commando & merc players will hate me for this but we are as easily countered as any other class.

 

Now I can't force you all to change but I can try to show you your errors and make you realize there is a way to win against a class which is finally equal to yours.

 

Bad habits die last.

Everyone is so fixated and trained like a dog running a parkour they don't realize what the hell kind of stupid skill spam they actually do on enemies commando / merc. Just because It worked in the past didn't mean it was ever a good idea.

 

Change is never easy and mostly not welcome but it's necessary.

 

 

Let me ask you some questions:

Do you spam all your hardcap and softcap CC on a bubbled sorc?

Do you keep firing all your damage abilities on a bubbled sorc?

Unloading all your damage rotations On a Mara running his massive Damage reduction?

Wasting all your burst on a doge roll scoundrel / Ops?

Do you keep spamming your ranged heavy hitters on a Jugg running his reflect?

 

....and so on.

 

Point is you are used to do it on commando & mercs for years because we really couldn't do anything about senseless CC stunlocks, interrupts and your own defense skills. Now we can, just like your fellow <insert other class>.

 

I now played roughly 50 matches since Saturday. In all those matches I 've nit seen a single player being mindfull of what ue actually does throw at me.

 

Juggs tanks and skanks and maraudes wasting all their cc for an initial stunlock jumping on me activating their own defense skills and then....well they die 30 seconds later disgracefully. But what do you expect throwing all your utility away in the beginning of a fight?. It worked before because you could wear the last breath down because we lacked all the nice things you have.

 

I could write now two essays over individual counters but I keep it stupid and simple.

Fight the bad habit and fight us like you fight a fellow sin/mara/jugg /ops rep side class.

 

We have defense skills now just like you and you can expect us to use then to maximum effect just like you.

Don' try to stunlock us / snare / root when we have our reflect, selfheal or free running up.

 

Remember you don't throw your stuns ob a low hp sorc when you know he has his bubble left and isn't a total derp.

 

Don't pop your combat stealth and immediate ambush us when we still have full hp. You don't do that on anyone else, don't do it on commandos and mercs anymore.

Commando and mercs are OP because no other class has 3 abilities that can potentially heal them to full, and this needs to be slightly adjusted. These abilities are as follows:

1) Kolto Overload (talented with Kolto Surge) + Medpack

2) Energy Shield (talented with Trauma Regulators)

3) Responsive Safeguards

Most of you mercs will argue that number 2 and 3 can be countered by stunning, ccing, the merc or switching targets. While this is true, It must be pointed out that no other class has TWO abilities that essentially force target switching. Take the Sorcerer's force barrier for example, it forces a target switch, does not heal them to full, and leaves the sorcerer invulnerable. Unlike mercenary's responsive safeguards however, sorcerers can't do anything while channeling force barrier. Mercs can simply free cast if they aren't stunned. This becomes a problem if the merc decides to wait to use responsive safeguards when he's getting focused and he's already white-barred.

Another (common) scenario is when a group of like-minded individuals stun or cc the merc simultaneously when they see him activate responsive safeguards, the merc is almost certainly white-barred at this point and able to free cast while temporarily invincible if he decides to break his stun. If he does not break his stun and the group switches back to the now white-barred merc after his responsive safeguard ends, the merc can pop energy shield and essentially be able to free cast again as the group would now have to switch targets again. Unless the group attempts to kill the merc before his energy shield expires, which is a huge gamble, as failure to do so would allow the white-barred merc to heal to full again.

I agree that mercs desperately needed a defensive buff since they almost always got tunneled and killed instantly especially in ranked prior to 5.0, but the amount of heal-to-full they have now is absolutely ridiculous. No other class can heal to full 3 times without using any self heals, and mercs have self heals to boot.

Powertechs get killed far too quickly nowadays if tunneled. Since powertechs can not self heal with healing abilities like merc can, powertech needs some of the heal to full love. I strongly suggest taking the Trauma Regulators talent away from mercs and giving it to powertechs in their legendary tier, and giving powertechs the Kolto Surge talent (sharing it with mercenaries.) That's it. Mercs would still have their godly responsive safeguards, and a second heal-to-full with kolto overload + medpack, but this way they'd only have one move that forces a target switch and/or requires a stun or a cc (as many classes already have) instead of two which makes them overpowered.

And before all you mercenaries q.q about the idea of having one of your precious heal to fulls taken away, I want to point out that I play all 16 advanced classes, and not a single advanced class can do what mercenaries can do defensively in 5.0 while still being able to dish out godly amounts of damage.

tl;dr

1) Mercs OP cause 3 heal to fulls and potentially two forced target switches

2) Fix this by letting powertechs and mercenaries share the kolto surge utility in their heroic tier and by taking trauma regulators away from mercenaries and giving it to powertechs in their legendary teir

Don't forget the utility that reduces Energy Shield cooldown every time they get attacked.

Of course, the Mercs counter argument is going to be "then don't attack me bro" gee, seems to be the only argument I hear from mercs nowadays.....

Commando and mercs are just stupidly op atm u most be crazy not to se that. u can facetank any class and just dps them down no need to even move. and its one of the easyest classes to play. the nr1 noob class.

I attack with my merc before the tank. What can they do to it? Nothing.

I can kite in 10m like PT <5.0, but no need to retreat when speed ends.

I attack with my merc before the tank. What can they do to it? Nothing.

I can kite in 10m like PT <5.0, but no need to retreat when speed ends.

That sounds very brave and daring of you, pulling aggro while a tank stands by to save you.

Except I'm going to ask *** you're attacking that makes you think you're special.

If it starts with the words flashpoint or storymode or indeed uprising then I have bad news for you.