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Mean Mitigation


Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
02.14.2015 , 04:42 PM | #1
Let me preface this by saying this guide is based on an average of mitigation across all 3 tanking classes. Meaning if you add up your armor, stats, and health all 3 classes should have roughly the same DTPS per fight (obvious variances not included), achieved by having similar stat percentages. If this is NOT a style of tanking that you believe is viable you can save your time, you will not agree with anything I am about to say.


This guide is also written using Imperial terms, but I have no doubt that competent Republic players will be able to translate it adequately.

Total Stat Pools:
Mitigation 4003
B-Mods 3841
Split-Mods 3895

*Split-Mods refers to a combination of Full Mitigation and B-Mods. On Juggernauts and Powertechs this combination is 3 Mitigation and 6 B-Mods. On Assassins this combination is 6 Mitigation and 3 B-Mods.

To further clarify before we get into stat pools: the way that I have geared my Juggernaut and Powertech is by having all enhancements Defense Rating and all mods Absorb. This style is different on the Assassin due to how quickly you can reach your Defense Rating goals, but that will be explained further down. Stat differentials are also based on Revanite token drops and B-Mods attained from the Ultimate Comms vendor. Ear piece and Implant stats are based on 198 Token and not Comms. Health computations selected are based on the fact that target health pool for mitigation tanks (not endurance stacking) is generally accepted as being between 53k and 56k, these also assume all Endurance datacrons have been attained.

******* THIS POST HAS BEEN UPDATED SINCE THE OP, ALL MATH VALUES HAVE BEEN CORRECTED AND ARE EXACT ***********



Juggernauts

Health
- Full Mitigation = 52,132
- B-Mods = 55,156
- Split-Mods = 54,148

Stat Distribution (Augment Differential: 10 Shield, 4 Absorb/ 1 Implant Defense, 1 Implant Absorb)
Defense Rating 1094 = 20.08% (25.08% with Blade Barricade)
Shield Rating 1720 = 50.2%
Absorb Rating:
- 1027 [B-Mods] = 40.63% (43.63% with Aegis Assault)
- 1189 [Full Mitigation] = 42.99% (45.99% with Aegis Assault)
- 1081 [Split Mods] = 41.44% (44.44% with Aegis Assault)

Powertech

Health
- Full Mitigation = 52,132
- B-Mods = 55,156
- Split-Mods = 54,148

Stat Distribution (Augment Differential: 8 Shield, 6 Defense/ Both Implants Defense)
Shield Rating 1616 = 47.11% (50.11% with Shield Enhancers)
Defense Rating -- 1406 = 24.47%
Absorb Rating:
- 819 [B-Mods] = 41.28% (44.28% with Heat Screens and 66.28% with Heat Blast)
- 981 [Full Mitigation] = 43.92% (46.92% with Heat Screens and 68.92% with Heat Blast)
- 873 [Split-Mods] = 42.19% (45.19% with Heat Screens and 67.19% with Heat Blast)


Assassin

Health
- Full Mitigation = 52,998.8
- B-Mods = 55,738
- Split-Mods = 54,026
*B-Mod health pool takes into account 1 Full Mitigation mod to attain Defense Rating.

Stat Distribution (Augment Differential: Varies)
Defense Rating 750 = 24.93 (Both Implants, 1 Full Mit Mod, 1 Enhancement, 1 Augment)
Absorb Rating
- 1793 [Full Mitigation] = 54.25% (8 Augments)
- 1753 [B-Mod] = 53.84% (10 Augments)
- 1791 [Split-Mods] = 54.23% (9 Augments)
Shield Rating
- 1460 [Full Mitigation] = 58.34% (5 Augments)
- 1356 [B-Mods] = 57.15% (3 Augments)
- 1408 [Split-Mods] = 57.77% (4 Augments)

The difference in the Absorb percentages is factored into the average mitigation. So where the Assassin absorbs roughly 10% more damage per shield, the other classes simply take that much less damage at all times due to heavy armor.

Relics
- Juggernauts and Assassins are in a unique position due to the new, larger stat pools. Pre-3.0 the generally accepted BiS relic combination was Fortunate Redoubt and Reactive Warding. However, given the Shield percentages that can be attained, Shield Amplification can actually be better mitigation than RW. The technicality of it is that you cannot use Saber Reflect or Force Shroud while it is procced or you have just wasted potential mitigation. So if you are not one who wants to watche their buff bar that closely FR and RW are still going to be the best mitigation you can get.
- On Powertechs I will always run FR but post-3.0 my secondary relic has been an activation relic (Shrouded Crusader/Imperiling Serenity), which gives me an additional, fight specific cooldown. However, RW is going to be your best secondary choice if you want dual proc relics.


If you have read this far I would like to say thank you for your time.
(And before all the comments flood in: yes, I know that my stated PT differential is contrary to what most PT's are running at the moment)
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

justinplainview's Avatar


justinplainview
02.15.2015 , 07:31 AM | #2
Interesting post, any chance you can provide HM TOS/Rav DTPS parses on fights to backup your stat distribution choices or are these baselines formed from number crunching? Would be interesting in reference to PT Tanking stat distribution in particular, as I run far less defense than your model, and I feel like my DTPS profile is very easy to heal and mitigation is solid.

Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
02.15.2015 , 07:43 AM | #3
Next time I run the fights I will record my parses. I can tell you that my Juggernaut averages between 1400 and 1500 DTPS per fight (Master/Blaster not included, little guy hits like a damn truck). My record on Bulo was 1059 (achieved 867 with a Sorc healer one time). Distribution on PT's and Assassin's is mainly number-crunching at this point, will run them more thoroughly and update post when applicable.
Also: not intending to argue the way PT's work, well aware of the 3 schools of thought on that tank, but for me it seems to bring them more in line on fights like Underlurker where the main boss is Defense oriented. (Shrouded Crusader relic is incredibly OP during add phases of that fight).

*** Have been unable to test Cora/Revan due to obvious reasons.
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

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justinplainview
02.15.2015 , 09:26 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Jethsidi View Post
Next time I run the fights I will record my parses. I can tell you that my Juggernaut averages between 1400 and 1500 DTPS per fight (Master/Blaster not included, little guy hits like a damn truck). My record on Bulo was 1059 (achieved 867 with a Sorc healer one time). Distribution on PT's and Assassin's is mainly number-crunching at this point, will run them more thoroughly and update post when applicable.
Also: not intending to argue the way PT's work, well aware of the 3 schools of thought on that tank, but for me it seems to bring them more in line on fights like Underlurker where the main boss is Defense oriented. (Shrouded Crusader relic is incredibly OP during add phases of that fight).

*** Have been unable to test Cora/Revan due to obvious reasons.
Too bad you don't have in fight data for PT Tanking to go with, but I'll supplement info below that might help get the ball rolling. Can't compare Jugg numbers really since their mitigation profile is so different.

Similarly, I'm not attempting to start a war over PT theory either, as I'm unlikely to change my opinion or attempt to change yours short of me noticing you're taking wildly less damage on a PT in HM with similar tank roles or something.
To give some food for thought, I'll post some average DTPS numbers. My gear is 595 Defense 1305 Absorb and like...1865 Shield I think? Revanite Ear and Implants Relics are Revanite Reactive and Revanite Fortunate Redoubt, all 198 armorings with 198 offhand 192 mainhand all mods are B mods 198 all enhancements are 198 mean mitigation save for 2 off piece drop 198 enhancements, will upgrade as soon as I get more gear obviously. HP Values at 55899 with buffs, stim. Using Rakata Absorb Adrenal, Purple Medpacs in raid.

On the DTPS end, I'm taking... (these are approximate values varying lockout to lockout)

1600 Malaphar HM 8 *Strat involves tank taking a few more stacks than ideal for sake of ease of tank swapping at add spawns, could easily take less damage but it's unnecessary when strat makes fight easier overall*

1700 Sword Squadron HM 8 *Using a Strat where we taunt from range and stay on our assigned walkers. Would take less damage if we did a positional swap, but again strat preference for raid*

1000-1200 Underlurker HM 8 *Variance really has to do with how much cleave I feel like doing as well as proccing close and personal and pyro shield during add spawns*

900-1000 Revanite Commanders HM 8 *The damage taken in this fight, outside of add cleave, is basically irrelevant, the only DTPS that matters is how you manage cooldowns in the final burn.*

1400-1500 Revan HM 8 (Coincidentally 16 man HM Revan is almost identical DTPS, due to 16 man damage profile being somehow WEAKER in some respects) *Fairly pleased with my DTPS in Revan HM kills*

Sparky 1400 HM 8 *Fight is a joke, just hit cooldowns and keep tanking, our strat doesn't involve a swap*

Bulo 1300-1400 HM 8 *Could improve on DTPS, but it's less about mitigation and more about our tanks grabbing very few barrels and instead AOE taunting pirates, holding threat for mass barrages on add wave 2, 3 and 4 with barrels only grabbed on first and *if still alive* fifth wave. If we grabbed barrels for each, could take 1-200 less DTPS, but again, our strat is extremely clean and repeatable*

Torque 1500 HM 8 *Fairly content with damage profile on Torque, I try and get threat on as many of the adds as possible and any variance with my DTPS is how many floor vent ticks I take total*

Blaster Master 1800-2000 HM 8 *Boss hits like a truck and the damage profile is not the jam on a PT tank. Sins are gods on this fight. Pleased overall with a 1604 DTPS in the last full run of Rav HM with my group*

Coratanni 1700-1900 HM 8 *Definitely want to improve on taking less damage on Coratanni, but overall I'm pleased, as Pearl is a complete jerk that hits like a truck. Another fight where I feel a Sin tank would be superior in my role*

I'm always looking to improve on my DTPS logs for fights to make my healer's job easier, but our healers don't complain about our tanks taking too much damage and on most complain about a lack overall. Internally, the Zorz tanks have been discussing PT tank theory, trying to make sure we haven't been lazy in our approach to gearing and mitigation theory. As of now, until I get a large amount of data showing otherwise, I don't see ample need to gear for so much defense, as so much of the IMPORTANT damage (important to our healers and to the overall profile at least) is internal, in addition to the basic ideas that having the opportunity to shield damage, not to mention the healing cooldowns that PT tanks have in their arsenal that are % based and not HP value based (Kolto Overload, in addition to the Shield Cannon heal utility) that give credence to b mods. IDK. I'm very interested in more feedback and discussion because I'm not against the idea of using a different stat distribution.

Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
02.15.2015 , 09:41 AM | #5
Damage profiles you have listed are very similar to what I am achieving on Olmez (Juggernaut), so I can say with most certainty that he is BiS. Differential breakdown on Assassin also seems to be close to target range.

PT's is where I am still working it out. While the Defense rating does help in certain fights, the primary and tertiary cooldowns they have are Defense based (even more so if I put in Imperiling Serenity). On your recommendation I am going to try out dropping Defense and buffing the other stats (probably won't let it drop below 20%, but should be able to take all the augments out at least). What would you have me put the additional points into?
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

justinplainview's Avatar


justinplainview
02.15.2015 , 09:50 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Jethsidi View Post
Damage profiles you have listed are very similar to what I am achieving on Olmez (Juggernaut), so I can say with most certainty that he is BiS. Differential breakdown on Assassin also seems to be close to target range.

PT's is where I am still working it out. While the Defense rating does help in certain fights, the primary and tertiary cooldowns they have are Defense based (even more so if I put in Imperiling Serenity). On your recommendation I am going to try out dropping Defense and buffing the other stats (probably won't let it drop below 20%, but should be able to take all the augments out at least). What would you have me put the additional points into?
Yeah, with exception to 2 enhancements and a mainhand tank barrel, I am extremely close to (what I presume at least) BiS for a PT Tank.

Personally, if I were in your position at ~24% Defense and you wanted to drop to 20% (since you prefer not to drop below), I would drop, whichever the precise stat budget you have available probably 60% of that number into Absorb, since you run fairly low, rest into shield. I haven't tested Imperiling Serenity yet (though I have tested Shield Amp, which is amazing on a few bosses but absolute garbage on most) so I'll definitely be trying out one soon

On another note, I'm more than willing to test out higher defense levels, just for the sake of argument. It'll take a bit of time to get some more defense gear to work with, but when I can I'll run a 10/10 with a different defense rating (probably wont go much higher than 800) and I'll let you know how my logs vary between the two setups.

If we want to go further down the rabbit hole, I may (read that as I definitely will) link this to my cotanks in Zorz and see if they have any extra insight or have any opinions. At the very least, Smugglin can go in more depth than I can into tank theory, as he's more seasoned at it than I.

Now, here's the real question. You listed a stat budget for mean mitigation, full b mods, and hybrid b mods. Which do you use for your Jugg?

Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
02.15.2015 , 10:06 AM | #7
First for PT's then for Juggs.

Reason I did not feel the need to up Absorb on my PT is the fact that I have 100% uptime on the 3% buff (meaning after I pop Heat Blast I have 3 stacks back before the effect ends). In addition, my average time between when Heat Blast ends and it is re-applied is 2 globals, and the longest delay I have had was 3 (Firestorm was procced). So given the amount of time that 25% buff is up it felt the points could be spent elsewhere to even out my stats.

Olmez's current stat pool gives him the equivalent of the Split-Mod configuration.
He also runs Shield Amp/Fort Redoubt and I get bored sometimes so I make sure when a relic is procced or a cooldown is up that I do not use Force Scream until the effect has ended.

Side Note: My Assassin is also Split-Mod and runs FR/RW.
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

justinplainview's Avatar


justinplainview
02.15.2015 , 10:29 AM | #8
Heat Blast is a beautiful ability. I don't have a Jugg tank yet (slowly leveling to make sure I have one for NiM, so I'm taking any and all jugg theory crafting to heart so I have a solid knowledge base when I start tanking on it.

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Jethsidi
02.15.2015 , 10:38 AM | #9
The one thing I would caution for Juggernauts is stat distribution. KeyBoardNinja (great man, LOVE what he does) has the Defense rating high in his differential build. While you may get the most % points for your stat value that way, we both know that is not how fights always work (i.e. the reason you don't run high Defense on your PT at the moment). Which is why I run 1094 putting it *perfectly* (point of view) at 25%. Since you don't have to augment Defense like you did previous tier you can put the points into Shield. Now, 1500 is where you start hitting really bad DR on Shield with Juggernauts, but I pushed mine to 1720 to achieve 50%. You may wish to run less than that, in which case more of your augments would be Absorb.

If I remember correctly the completely balanced stat percentages were 25% Defense, 47% Shield and 47% Absorb. However, when I did the number crunching on Shield/Absorb ratios (algorithms used were DTPS, hit-to-hit basis, and total damage taken) it seemed that as long as your Absorb was above 40% you actually got more total mitigation out of stacking Shield. That being said 50% Shield 44% Absorb seems to be a better combo than both 47/47 or the attainable 53/40 (Aegis Assault included in those numbers).
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
02.15.2015 , 04:35 PM | #10
Random Fact: Best relic for PT Tank on Underlurker is Ephemeral Mending. Due to how often AoE damage goes out, its basically a reactive warding with half the cooldown
Kwerty/Mossie

Once a guy who wrote guides, now just a guy getting back in
Vanguards/Powertechs 4 lyf