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Fire-linking on the Strike Fighters


Linuxizer

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Let's discuss fire-linking the weapons on the Strike Fighters here instead of cluttering the main thread. The idea is mainly to add some X-wing flavor to GSF, more as a dream than as something we can reasonably expect Bioware to do quickly. If the only goal were to improve the Strike Fighters, this might work but would be a lot more effort than simply tweaking the performance numbers. I will start by describing what concepts are not so good and why not, then move to more useful ones.

 

T1 Strike Fighter

 

1. Add a third fire button

 

The idea is fairly simple, but the result would be too powerful. For example, if you have Heavy Laser, Quad Laser and Cluster Missile, you could hold down all 3 buttons... that's about 1900 dps at 3000m even without the missile. Conclusion: too strong.

 

2. Cycle between 1st Primary, 2nd Primary and both Primaries (dps1 + dps2)

Let's say you have Rapid Fire Laser (RFL) and Heavy Laser Cannon (HLC). You press 1 to cycle between RFL, HLC and RFL + HLC. It is basically same as #1 and still overpowered. Conclusion: too strong.

 

3. Fire both Primaries, cooldowns added together, output calculated for each weapon

Again, take RFL, HLC and RFL + HLC. RFL can fire every 0.25s. HLC can fire every 0.50s. RFL + HLC can fire together every 0.75s, but range, damage, accuracy and critical are calculated separately. The overall rate of damage is unchanged from today, while the all-important first-strike hits slightly harder. This is not enough burst increase, and also most weapons do not work well together due to range differences. Conclusion: not much benefit.

 

4. Fire both Primaries, cooldowns added together, damage added together, range/accuracy/critical is averaged

 

This is the same as #3 above, except that the range, accuracy and critical are averaged when firing both weapons. This makes the different weapon combinations more useful (e.g., HLC + RFL with 5000m range), but still does not add that much punch. Conclusion: still not enough benefit.

 

5. Both Primaries can be the same.

 

Same as #4 above, except that you can buy another HLC in the other Primary slot on the T1 Strike. You can still choose different lasers, but HLC + HLC is attractive for maintaining the maximum range, accuracy, armor-piercing and shield-piercing. Conclusion: maybe.

 

6. Fire 1, 2 or 4 guns.

 

Same as #5 above, except to quadruple instead of double the output (at 1/4 the rate of fire instead of 1/2). There would be 5 modes you can cycle through by pressing 1. Take the default RFL + HLC combination on the T1 Strike as an example.

 

Mode 1: RFL in single fire. When you hold down the left mouse button:

Left RFL fires for ~200 damage,

0.25s,

Right RFL fires for ~200 damage,

0.25s,

Left RFL fires for ~200 damage,

...

(This is purely a graphics change. The output is exactly the same as today.)

 

Mode 2: RFLs in dual fire. When you hold down the left mouse button:

Both RFLs fire for ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Both RFLs fire for ~400 damage,

0.50s,

...

 

Mode 3: HLC in single fire.

Left HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Right HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

...

(Again, graphics change only.)

 

Mode 4: HLCs in dual fire.

Both HLCs ~800 damage,

1.00s,

Both HLCs ~800 damage,

1.00s,

...

 

Mode 5: Fire-linked.

Both RFLs and both HLCs fire for ~1200 damage,

1.50s,

Both RFLs and both HLCs fire for ~1200 damage,

1.50s,

...

 

When the two Primaries are the same, there are only 3 modes, just like the X-wing games.

 

Mode 1: HLC in single fire.

Top left HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Top right HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Bottom left HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Bottom right HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

Top left HLC ~400 damage,

0.50s,

...

 

Mode 2: HLCs in dual fire.

Top left and bottom right HLCs ~800 damage,

1.00s,

Top right and bottom left HLCs ~800 damage,

1.00s,

Top left and bottom right HLCs ~800 damage,

1.00s,

...

 

Mode 3: Fire-linked.

All 4 HLCs ~1600 damage,

2.00s,

All 4 HLCs ~1600 damage,

2.00s,

...

 

I think #6 would be enough to make the T1 Strike more effective, add depth, add nostalgia, and without making it overpowering (since the theoretical dps has not changed). Many different tactics could be used. With Concentrated Fire, you have 101% accuracy at 6900m and 36% chance to do 2343 damage, though if you miss you have to wait 2.00s for the next shot. Conclusion: just right?

 

Edit: fixed a couple of things.

Edited by Linuxizer
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We are talking about the t1 here. So i would say this:

Give the T1 a system ability rather than weapon swap

Allow its primary and secondary weapons to equip all weapons availible to the ship itself (two rockets no lasers, two lasers no rockets)

Left click fires weapon slot 1, right click fires weapon slot 2, double its blaster pool.

Each weapon fires costing it's normal amount of pool per shot

Each rocket uses its standard lock on time and standard cooldown period

Result: Not too strong, as the striker would be cooldown restricted with double rockets, still can't chase, lack manuverability, and get rekt by gunships. Not to weak, as it can finally possibly out-joust t2 scouts with double fire lasers, but could still drain its power pool super rapidly.

 

Suddenly it can be the joustmaster, gunship spooker, or bomber killer depending on what weapons you are attempting to use. (Locking two rockets at once, or firing two lasers at once? 10/10 would buy cartel ship and keep both on my bars)

 

This would only help the t1 though, and would grumpy people who like to use ion/heavy/conc.

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T2 Strike Fighter

I see the T1 Strike as having 4 guns and 1 torpedo tube, and the T2 Strike as having 3 guns and 2 torpedo tubes. The first change is to allow buying a second Secondary weapon on the T2 Strike that is the same as the first. There will need to be an additional button, to allow selecting fire-linking of primaries and secondaries separately.

 

Primaries Mode 1: QLC in single fire.

Left wing QLC ~405 damage,

0.37s,

Fuselage QLC ~405 damage,

0.37s,

Right wing QLC ~405 damage,

0.37s,

Left wing QLC ~405 damage,

...

(This is a graphics change only, compared to today.)

 

Primaries Mode 2: QLCs fire-linked.

All QLCs ~1215 damage,

1.11s,

All QLCs ~1215 damage,

1.11s,

...

 

For the Secondaries, single-fire mode is the same as today. Fire-linking must add the lock times. The default Secondaries are Concussion and Proton.

 

Secondaries Mode 1: Concussion only. 1055 damage, 20 degree arc, 7000m range, 3.00s lock, 6.00s reload.

 

Secondaries Mode 2: Proton only. 830 damage, 12 degree arc, 10000m range, 4.00s lock, 12.00s reload.

 

Secondaries Mode 3: Concussion + Proton. 1885 damage, 16 degree arc, 7.00s lock, 8500m range, 18.00s reload. (The enemy uses one missile break to break both.)

 

I would probably stick with two sets of Cluster Missiles.

 

Secondaries Mode 1: Single Cluster. 650 damage, 24 degree arc, 5000m range, 1.50s lock, 3.00s reload.

 

Secondaries Mode 2: Cluster + Cluster. 1300 damage, 24 degree arc, 5000m range, 3.00s lock, 6.00s reload.

 

Other than Cluster + Cluster, all other combinations will be difficult to launch... as it should be. Upgraded Proton + Proton, for example, can one-shot everything including bombers, so the 6.8s lock is not too long at all.

 

T3 Strike Fighter

 

The T3 Strike is a support ship and has a system component and should not out-gun the T1 or T2, despite the appearance of 4 guns on the Clarion model. I would give it 2 guns and 2 torpedo tubes, and add the Heavy Laser and Concussion Missile to its arsenal. Both Primary and Secondary weapons can be set (separately) to single-fire or dual-fire.

 

Summary

 

These changes do not affect the specified rate of damage (dps), do not require HLC on a Strike to be different than HLC on a bomber, do not require proliferation of BLC, DF to the Strike Fighters. They do add a lot of new tactics, and by concentrating the damage in the first salvo, should make Strike Fighters effective without being overpowering. When you see an incoming Strike Fighter, you can no longer laugh and ignore it. At the same time, you also won't have to switch out of your Scout/Gunship/Bomber into your own Strike Fighter just to counter the enemy Strike Fighter.

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We are talking about the t1 here. So i would say this:

Give the T1 a system ability rather than weapon swap

Allow its primary and secondary weapons to equip all weapons availible to the ship itself (two rockets no lasers, two lasers no rockets)

Left click fires weapon slot 1, right click fires weapon slot 2, double its blaster pool.

Each weapon fires costing it's normal amount of pool per shot

Each rocket uses its standard lock on time and standard cooldown period

Result: Not too strong, as the striker would be cooldown restricted with double rockets, still can't chase, lack manuverability, and get rekt by gunships. Not to weak, as it can finally possibly out-joust t2 scouts with double fire lasers, but could still drain its power pool super rapidly.

 

Thanks for reading my wall of text. :) I edited a few things and added the T2 and T3.

 

Your idea is close to a perma-DO, and to add a system ability (such as TT) on top of that would be overpowering. Having two missiles fired independently would require a bit of tinkering with the HUD, locking sound for you and locking sound for your enemy, and, more importantly, double Cluster Missiles at 1.3s lock would be overpowering.

 

I was trying to be clever :), borrow ideas from the X-wing games and make the Strike Fighters deadlier without changing the overall stats (especially dps).

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The 6-8-second double-protorp/conc lock would never really be useful. The only targets you could reliably complete the lock on are:

Stationary targets. There aren't any stationary targets worth shooting two protorps at, except maybe capship turrets.

Bombers far out of cover. If there's cover nearby, they'll get behind it, especially if they know the striker is trying to throw a protorp at them.

Newbies who don't know how to use cover or a lock break.

People who fly into wide open space without enough engine power to get out of it.

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Thanks for reading my wall of text. :) I edited a few things and added the T2 and T3.

 

Your idea is close to a perma-DO, and to add a system ability (such as TT) on top of that would be overpowering. Having two missiles fired independently would require a bit of tinkering with the HUD, locking sound for you and locking sound for your enemy, and, more importantly, double Cluster Missiles at 1.3s lock would be overpowering.

 

I was trying to be clever :), borrow ideas from the X-wing games and make the Strike Fighters deadlier without changing the overall stats (especially dps).

 

The idea would be that you couldn't equip, say, two clusters. But rather a cluster and a conc. Or ion and heavies instead of double heavies. double fire means double the burnout, but higher DPS overall. making strikers joustmasters without giving them perma DO, and range/tracking would still be an issue for both weapon sets. IE you could fire your heavies at 6k and have them be near useless at shorter ranges, and fire your RFL when heavies aren't as well. Or fire heavies and quads for a short period of time at the same target, depleting your pool but out-jousting everything.

 

The idea of including it for rockets would be so that people who like to troll about in rocket builds could quicklock something while long-locking something else, the sound would need no tinkering but i think maybe the UI might. Even if it's just a double overlay.

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I think any of the "double weapon" tricks wouldn't really be a good way to buff strikes. The big problem I have with them is that they are all very mechanicy and require tons of balance to tweak properly, in exchange for a unique ability that mostly becomes blaster overcharge, something the game already has (and not on strikes). It is legit cool, but it's probably not the cool we need.
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The double-missile concept was for adding some new (trolling) tactics for fun. And if you ever managed the 6.8s lock (or turned off your targeting computer) to fire double proton torpedoes, it really is a shot in a million! However, this does nothing for Strike Fighter competitiveness and is too complicated and should be left out.

 

The idea would be that you couldn't equip, say, two clusters. But rather a cluster and a conc. Or ion and heavies instead of double heavies. double fire means double the burnout, but higher DPS overall.

 

Double DPS (from HLC + HLC or variations such as HLC + QLC) with double the blaster power pool is overpowering. Double DPS without increasing the blaster power pool is probably still overpowering. Anyway, any DPS increase can be done by stats upgrade alone to Strikes and does not need to involve fire-linking concepts. I'm developing the idea of keeping DPS and other stats constant, but just bunching the damage together to make Strikes more lethal (and more like X-wing).

 

Upon reflection, firing dissimilar guns together is generally less than the sum of the parts, and adding and averaging the gun stats is confusing. So here is a revised and better solution for the T1 Strike: give it 4x RFL + 4x HLC for a total of 8 guns. T2 and T3 Strikes will have 4 guns each. The guns will be so good that the missiles can remain as they are.

 

To be more precise, the revised concept is:

 

T1 Strike Fighter

- no change to any stat

- no change to build and upgrades

- no change to missiles

- it now has 8 guns and 1 torpedo tube (default is 4x RFL + 4x HLC + Concussion Missiles)

- same 1 key to cycle between either the first set of guns or the second set of guns (but not both)

- new F5 key to cycle fire-linking on the first set of guns (1x, 2x, 4x)

- new F6 key to cycle fire-linking on the second set of guns (1x, 2x, 4x)

- single-fire mode (1x) does the same as the weapon does today (graphics could be modified)

- dual-fire mode (2x) is the same DPS at 1/2 the rate of fire (actually 2 shots are fired at the same time--or 0.001s apart--whatever; then double the cooldown until the next pair of shots)

- fire-link mode (4x) is the same DPS at 1/4 the rate of fire

- when you hyperspace into battle, primary weapon is set to RFL in 1x (same as today)

- press 1, F6, F6 to switch to HLC in 4x

- surprise someone 6900m away for 400 + 400 + 400 + 400 damage instantly

- press 1 to switch to 1x RFL to finish him off (RFL can start firing 2.00s after the 4x HLCs fired)

- or, better yet, use Ion + HLC build, set HLC to 4x, switch to 1x Ion Cannon, find an enemy, hold left mouse button for a bit, then quickly press 1 and left click for 1600 hull damage instantly

 

T2 Strike Fighter

- no change to any stat

- no change to build and upgrades

- no change to missiles

- it now has 4 guns and 2 torpedo tubes (default is 4x QLC + Concussion Missiles + Proton Torpedoes)

- F5 key to cycle fire-linking on the primary weapon (1x, 2x, 4x)

 

T3 Strike Fighter

- no change to any stat

- no change to build and upgrades

- no change to missiles

- it now has 4 guns and 1 torpedo tube (and the repair probe)

- F5 key to cycle fire-linking on the primary weapon (1x, 2x, 4x)

 

Summary

Well, that's about as far as I can take this concept. Strikes will have a nasty punch, but will not single-handedly wipe out an entire team of competent Scouts/Gunships/Bombers. And if you prefer the way the Strikes fly and fight today, you can still enjoy them exactly the same way, simply by not pressing F5 or F6. Just watch out for skilled enemy Strikes :)

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Anyone complaining about that much gank in a strike should consider how vulnerable they still are to gunships. They will be a much nasteir surprise to a gunship, but still quite vulnerable to ion rail-which isn't a bad thing, because everything needs a weakness or it's just overpowered.

 

The proposed T1 strike would still have the close-quarters charged plating weakness issue, because no BLC. Attacking a node wouldn't be the obvious ion splash + battlescout combo, though: the bomber now has to choose if it wants to face double HLC or slug rail, and any defending scout will be a lot easier to peel off the gunship support. A strike still wouldn't be able to solo a node with a good bomber on it, because it would have no way to deal with the bomber LoSing it. Twice zero is still zero.

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[...] So here is a revised and better solution for the T1 Strike: give it 4x RFL + 4x HLC for a total of 8 guns. T2 and T3 Strikes will have 4 guns each. The guns will be so good that the missiles can remain as they are. [...]

 

Different firing speeds while having the same dps sounds interesting but I can see problems with 4*HLC having too much burst. After all it would do almost twice the damage than BLC but up to 6900m instead of only 500m and closer. 4*HLC would do almost as much damage as a fully charged railgun but without the process of charging; sure, railguns have 15km range but the charge mechanic is what's keeping railguns from being op.

 

The proposed T1 strike would still have the close-quarters charged plating weakness issue, because no BLC. [...]

 

Ships with charged plating usually don't have much evasion (because they aren't scouts) and are moving slower (again, because they aren't scouts - also there are probably interdicition effects in cqc). HLC with +6% accuracy and +2° firing arc crew member are ok in close quarters against most of the charged plating ships. HLC doesn't get the same advantage than BLC when closer than 1000m, but it works ok against most charged plating builds.

Edited by Danalon
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Linking is an interesting idea, but I think for the most part it's better to just a straight buff to certain weapons on strike chassis. Certainly making RFL double damage (or somesuch chassis-specific buff) when equipped on strikes would be very nice. The lack of synergy between the two weapons is the killer.

 

4xHLC is so OP I cannot possibly believe you're serious :p

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Anyone complaining about that much gank in a strike should consider how vulnerable they still are to gunships

 

And to a T2 Scout who sees you.

 

too much burst

 

4xHLC is so OP I cannot possibly believe you're serious :p

 

4x HLCs at with 2.0s cooldown is powerful but a lot of the time one or more out of the four will miss due to tracking penalty and evasion. It may be OP in some situations but still weak in other situations. We want the Strike to be good enough that we would fly it in competitive matches (but not so good that we stop playing everything else).

 

To get a better picture, let's run a few examples.

 

Versus a T2 Scout

 

4x HLCs + Range Capacitor + Wingman giving "121%" accuracy, against a Scout with 33% evasion, at 6900m dead-center:

 

0.02% chance of 0 damage

0.61% chance of 393 damage

6.69% chance of 786 damage

32.71% chance of 1180 damage

59.97% chance of 1569 damage

average = 1382 damage

 

That average is OP if it happens often but it's hard to line up a Scout at 0 deflection. At 5 degree deflection and without Wingman:

 

3.11% chance of 0 damage

17.19% chance of 393 damage

35.60% chance of 786 damage

32.78% chance of 1180 damage

11.32% chance of 1569 damage

average = 912 damage

 

That average doesn't look too unreasonable. Another example is 4x QLCs + Damage Capacitor + Concentrated Fire at 3150m dead-center:

 

1.0% chance of 0 shield damage

5.0% chance of 427 shield damage

3.9% chance of 641 shield damage

8.9% chance of 854 shield damage

14.0% chance of 1069 shield damage

12.6% chance of 1282 shield damage

16.7% chance of 1430 shield damage + 56 hull damage

15.2% chance of 1430 shield damage + 237 hull damage

10.0% chance of 1430 shield damage + 418 hull damage

7.8% chance of 1430 shield damage + 599 hull damage

4.1% chance of 1430 shield damage + 780 hull damage

0.8% chance of 1430 shield damage + 950 hull damage, dead

average = 1561 damage

 

That is scary damage, but this is basically the most favorable scenario, to find a Scout dead-center in front of you while your weapon is ready. It is possible to one-shot kill a T2 Scout but the chance is so low.

 

Versus a T1 Gunship

 

It is not possible to one-shot the Gunship, but with Concentrated Fire + 1x Ion Cannon followed by 4x HLCs, expect to take less than one second to shoot him down. Strikes are unlikely to fly across 15000m and stop 500m from the Gunship without being seen, so the quick death is not the problem. Too much attrition may be. But, in the end, the T2 Scout is still the better Gunship-hunter.

 

Versus a T1 Bomber

 

Yes, the T2 Strike with CP and 4x HLCs would be kind of good against Bomber(s) at a satellite.

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