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I'm going to state this plainly and simply...


WillMasters

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I am an avid PVP and GSF player and I have one serious complaint about GSF. If I'm on a toon that is just starting out, *** am I doing going against players that have ALL their ships MAXED?!

 

There is NO EFFIN WAY I can kill a Maxed out Scout with ANY ship w/o help and lots of times there IS NO HELP.

 

That's what's so STUPID about PVP in this game: I'm don't have the gear so I'm going to die because the other side is FULL of people WITH gear and it's EASY to tell who does and doesn't have gear.

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Oh. And I'm not going to tell my name so you never know when it will happen but, the NEXT TIME I get spawn killed, I'm going to switch to the opposite faction as the person that spawned killed me and THROW EVERY TDM match. I will suicide until we loose the match.
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First, it's not gear>skill in GSF. I thought so last year when I started playing, but since then I've rolled new toons on other servers and had to start from scratch in a stock scout and strike... And I fared pretty well. I'm no ace like some here on the forum, but I can tell you from experience that it is skill and knowledge of mechanics, not gear that is the determining factor in GSF (as has been pointed out in other threads). Yes it has a learning curve, but once you've made progress along that learning curve you can kick butt in a stock ship.

 

Second, especially if you are new, you shouldn't be trying to take on the enemy team by yourself (regarding your comment about not being able to take down a ship without assistance). It's a team game and you would be much better off sticking with at least one other person.

 

Join the GSF channel on your server to coordinate with those on your side, as well as to get advice from more experienced pilots. The community is generally pretty helpful I've found.

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It may surprise you to know that there have been several threads in this forum that discuss specific changes in the two starter ships and/or the tutorial to improve the new player experience. While there are often differences in opinion on the best way to do it, almost no one thinks we should not improve those two ships.

 

The 2500 req bomber, 5000 req bomber and the starter 2500 req gunship are among the four best ships in the game at the top end. These ships are easier for entry level players to play (unlike the type 2 scout). They also start out with less of the build problems of the two starter ships. Even if you do not like the idea of these ships, it is probably worth while to play them to learn their counters. There is a mission at the pvp terminal that will give you 5000 fleet req. If you have not used it yet, I would recommend getting those two 2500 req ships. You need to be level 10 to pick up the mission. This means you should have 4 ships on your bar by your second mission if you are level 10 (I realize most people do not). Also, do not upgrade your rapid fire lasers, they are a trap component. Refer to the Stasie's stickied guide to builds. That way you will avoid these traps when upgrading ships.

 

If you feel that you are being spawn camped in TDM. You can choose to spawn away from the action and flank the side or rear. People who have been reported for crash sabotage have been sanctioned in the past. What many "veterans" do, sadly in my opinion, is to go to the winning faction and just play on that side. As a beginner, I think it is a reasonable option. I wish the good players did not do it.

 

By the way, I killed a maxed out sting 4 times in a TDM match last night with my 20% upgraded ship (the co-pilot ability Wingman helps a lot). That scout finished with the third highest damage in the round. I had the highest (78k damage). I queued dailies every day for a month just to get into the 20k damage club. It takes time, but it is worth it once you get there. Please do not be discouraged.

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Concepts from ground based pvp apply here. Don't over extend needlessly. It's a free peel and typically won't end well.

 

I personally am not a big fan of the ground based pvp aoe heal spam to win BS.

 

But, freakishly, I favor GSF over all other content in this game. While skill does indeed matter, it's a misnomer to imply that gear is strictly less important. Gear makes a huge difference in GSF. In my view gear and skill are of equal importance to success. However, in my experience, queing with a group and coordinating is of greater importance and has more of an impact on success than either. Some could argue that coordination is a skill, and I suppose there is a point to that. I would suggest it's a separate set of skills.

 

I don't really agree that the type 2 scout requires more skill than a GS. Now a bomber, for sure...bombers = free req :)

Edited by DarthRaneDeer
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He's entirely correct that it doesn't matter what you throw at a good battlescout with a starter ship. Either it controls the range and laughs off missiles (vs striker), or it simply laughs at whatever you shoot at it (scout).

 

GSF isn't a game of duels, and if you try to play it like one, you're not going to get very far. A T1 strike can take potshots at the scout with heavy lasers and seriously threaten it if distortion field is down and the scout is trying to kill someone else-or, if the scout is careless, lock a missile and fire it point-blank.

 

If your team is a wall of red skulls, there's exactly zero you can do. Just for giggles, you could take a minelayer and either drop mines on your own spawn-you will hit things with these mines if they're ganking people on your spawn with battlescouts. Or, you could drop a beacon in some out-of-the-way place and a couple of mines on their middle spawn and hope your team manages to kill at least one of them.

Or you could take a gunship over to their spawn and wait for one of them to die and spawn again. If you start messing with their spawn, all the red arrows will turn around and fly back to wherever you poked them.

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Probably the hardest skill I need to master is remembering that this is a total team game. Even in TDM it is completely team based. In most other flight sims you, as the pilot, are literally responsible for taking on the entire other side. This is a horrible mind set to come into GSF with and that was a big struggle for me.

 

I didn't understand that every time I chased, I got killed. Sort of learning the Maverick lesson from Top Gun. Now the moment I spawn I look for my teammates and make a bee line to where they are. Instead of kill chasing I find myself chasing after opposition pilots that have my wingmates in their sights. Far more satisfying to watch those guys explode while they aren't looking.

 

I have a lot to learn in this game but that was the hardest and most important lesson that no amount of gear could change.

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I've rolled out 20+ new toons and I continue to make new ones. I just started an Imperial Siraka on Red Eclipse server a few days ago. While flying completely stock does suck very hard, it doesn't take long to get the key upgrades to be competitive:

 

 

Rampart/Razorwire - stage 3 deflection armor, stage 2 charged plating, defensive crew for armor reduction, and interdiction mines are the necessities. That's only 13,000 requisition. Once I get to this stage I feel about 80% strong in this ship when defending a node. HLC armor piercing upgrade is really important if you are trying to attack a node with turrets or if you're trying to kill another CP bomber. But even that only takes a few days to get.

 

 

Quarrel/Mangler - stage 1 ion, stage 2 barrel roll, and stage 3 distortion field are the critical upgrades. That's about 20,000 requisition. Wingman co-pilot. Once I get to that stage I feel about 80% strong in that ship.

 

 

Warcarrier/Legion - this is THE EASIEST ship to get competitive right out of the gate. All you need to do is spend 6000 requisition and this thing is already an extremely valuable asset in team deathmatch. Swap out proton torpedo for level 1 seeker mines. Swap out missile sentry drone for railgun sentry drone. All of the other upgrades are just small bonuses. Afterwards you can work towards making the ship tankier, increasing the speed of the seeker mines, or upgrading heavy laser cannons. But again, none of those are critical upgrades.

 

 

Flashfire/Sting - the republic Flashfire is pretty blessed here because it starts off with all the critical crew members right away to build an evasion scout. Stage 0 BLC, stage 1 clusters, stage 2 power dive, stage 3 lightweight armor, stage 1 distortion field, stage 1 target telemetry, and running interference co-pilot. That's 15,000 requisition. You have great DPS, nearly maxed out evasion, and nearly endless missile breaks and mobility (power dive). I feel about 70% strong in this ship, with the only huge disadvantage being the inability to kill turrets easily. But you can swap to rocket pods if you want to trade dogfighting ability for utility and jousting.

 

 

Condor/Jugoran - this one takes a bit longer to get at the sweet spot because you really need to get that slug railgun accuracy up. That upgrade alone costs 18500. I also want level 2 power dive, level 2 directional shields, and level 2 large reactor to be a bit tankier. Oh and magazine regen extender. The Quarrel/Mangler is the better option because your ion railgun gets that accuracy upgrade for only 1000 req.

 

 

Novadive/Blackbolt - this one is a bit of a nuisance because you need to swap out the poor starter components. Switching out rapid fire lasers, barrel roll, quickcharge shields, and booster recharge is necessary and costs 7500 req. After you get level 0 regular lasers, level 2 power dive, level 1 distortion field, level 1 targetting telemetry, and level 1 rocket pods you can be pretty lethal. Don't forget to buy wingman on pub side and the passive accuracy crew member on impside.

 

 

 

Most of the power of a ship comes from selecting the correct initial components. A lot of the strongest upgrades are also given to you for very low cost (i.e. ion railgun accuracy, armor ignore rocket pods, reduced cost on power dive). The only super powerful later game upgrades are from armor ignore on BLC/HLC, DF missile break, target telemetry precision targeting, and slug railgun accuracy. Ion railgun also has two super powerful late game upgrades, but they basically turn an already super useful component into an OP component.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really agree that the type 2 scout requires more skill than a GS. Now a bomber, for sure...bombers = free req :)

 

No way man, all three ship types are a completely different set of skills that can't really be compared.

 

Scouting is primarily about evasive flying, map awareness, and being unpredictable in your attacks. Good aim is also important, of course.

 

Gunshipping is primarily about aim -- you NEED to center targets well or you're useless against scouts. Map awareness is also important so that you can peel before a Scout hits you and so that you don't get smacked by another gunship.

 

Bombing is primarily about map awareness. You need to know every enemy ship type, who is targeting you, and where they are targeting you from. You need to constantly be cycling through enemies and hitting C to determine the safest place to fly your ship. LoS is easy to do on Gunships, but then sometimes you need to fend off a BLC scout without leaving this LoS -- this sometimes means timely mine drops on top of the BLC scout and/or tactically smashing yourself off of a satellite with CP active. And what if you have another CP bomber attacking you at the same time? Well then you need to be careful not to catch a seismic mine when your charged plating is on cooldown. And you're going to have to land an interdiction mine on that bomber so that you can shoot him with your heavy laser cannons. Centering targets at close range with heavy laser cannons takes a considerable amount of practice and skill.

 

 

Team deathmatch bombing is an entirely different skill set again. It's mostly about team support (VOIP is very important) and kiting.

Edited by RickDagles
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I am an avid PVP and GSF player and I have one serious complaint about GSF. If I'm on a toon that is just starting out, *** am I doing going against players that have ALL their ships MAXED?!

 

The gear difference is relatively small in this game, and you req up very quickly. Maxxed ships are important, but they are minor compared to skill.

 

I always link this:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330

 

 

There is NO EFFIN WAY I can kill a Maxed out Scout with ANY ship w/o help

 

There's no game mode where you have to kill a specific scout to win.

 

I can say with confidence that you couldn't take down anyone in this thread if you had a maxed anything and they were on a low req scout, if not dying to you was their goal.

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It's not that skill doesn't matter. It's just that if you have two equally skilled pilots against each other, if one is in an noupgrade ship and the other in a mastered ship, the one in the mastered ship will win everytime. And putting people who are just starting out in a match with people who are mastered is counter productive because where is the fun in getting creamed every time you spawn?

 

If I'm flying with my guildies who do Starfighter, we do pretty well because we can use teamwork and voice chat. If you are queing solo and don't have a group of regulars, you're going to SUCK. Not many people can deal with banging their head against a brickwall for very long.

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Skill & Experience > Everything else

 

I am one of the best gunships on my server (Pot5, not really saying much), I have a mastered Mangler and I rip teams apart with it

One day, Despon dropped in flying a stock mangler, and he outscored me every time in every category on the scoreboard

 

Gear means nothing if you are good

 

Also you can just avoid that scout or get a gunship, Shooting down scouts isn't THAT hard

 

Oh. And I'm not going to tell my name so you never know when it will happen but, the NEXT TIME I get spawn killed, I'm going to switch to the opposite faction as the person that spawned killed me and THROW EVERY TDM match. I will suicide until we loose the match.

 

Rage moar? that sounds like it will make you a better pilot, totally won't kill ques

 

It's not that skill doesn't matter. It's just that if you have two equally skilled pilots against each other, if one is in an noupgrade ship and the other in a mastered ship, the one in the mastered ship will win everytime. And putting people who are just starting out in a match with people who are mastered is counter productive because where is the fun in getting creamed every time you spawn?

 

If I'm flying with my guildies who do Starfighter, we do pretty well because we can use teamwork and voice chat. If you are queing solo and don't have a group of regulars, you're going to SUCK. Not many people can deal with banging their head against a brickwall for very long.

 

If 2 equally skilled pilots face off, One should be smart enough to run away and come back with friends. This is a team game so a 1v1 should never happen since "running to node/spawn/team for help" is always an option. also I am fairly certain that winning a 1v1 isn't a victory condition.

 

Also match-ups are things, A stock gunship can pretty easily beat a mastered Strike.

 

Gear difference comes with PvP, there is exactly nothing you can do about it except get better, its something everyone has to deal with, we did it, so can you.

 

Also, You can fly solo, I did so for the longest time. Good awareness of the game and plenty of experience helps.

to this day I have never used VOIP in GSF.

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ONLY if you are lucky. There is a player on JC server that has a Mastered Scorpion. I hits you with two bursts and if you are in a stock ship, you die. But you take 3x as many hits to kill him. How can you compete with that?!
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ONLY if you are lucky. There is a player on JC server that has a Mastered Scorpion. I hits you with two bursts and if you are in a stock ship, you die. But you take 3x as many hits to kill him. How can you compete with that?!

 

Which ship is the Scorpion? That's not a GSF ship to my knowledge.

 

I'm not sure you'll take this advice since you seem committed to griefing based on your replies above.

Oh. And I'm not going to tell my name so you never know when it will happen but, the NEXT TIME I get spawn killed, I'm going to switch to the opposite faction as the person that spawned killed me and THROW EVERY TDM match. I will suicide until we loose the match.

 

Back to the advice:

1.) You get matched with players who have more upgrades on their ship because at that given time, the wait in the queue has been sufficiently long that the matchmaker matches you anyway despite the ship upgrade disparity. Its similar to people in solo ranked ground pvp getting matched with low ELO players because the wait time has been so long. If there were more novice players in the queue, your chances of being matched against other novice players would be higher.

 

2.) Here is a thread of someone who can perform very well in a Stock ship:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330

And here is a thread going over the math:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=770877

 

In other words, it is your lack of experience. I still have under 1000 games over a year after GSF and as such I do not feel qualified to complain about balance, except some limited thoughts on strike fighters.

 

Roll a toon on a busy GSF server, check out literally ANY thread/twitch stream/YouTube video by Drakkolich, and get some more games under your belt.

 

Oh, and don't grief. That's pretty childish. And against the TOS.

Edited by phalczen
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ONLY if you are lucky. There is a player on JC server that has a Mastered Scorpion. I hits you with two bursts and if you are in a stock ship, you die. But you take 3x as many hits to kill him. How can you compete with that?!

 

1, Pop wingman, fire 2-3 slugs, next target. Unless RNGesus is out for my head, thats how I compete with that.

2, *** is a scorpion, gonna assume you mean the Sting, AKA the Imp Battlescout.

3, 2 hits from Bursts kill things pretty fast, stock or no. Battlescouts can melt mastered bombers in literally seconds if they get the chance, they do the same to anything else.

 

You are seriously overestimating how much impact upgraded gear has. No gear gap in GSF that will make them take 3 times the amount of damage to kill.

 

Also, there is nothing that can be done about it, unless you want to back that horrible Bolster plan in that other thread (Hopefully you can read, because THAT GUY certainly can't)

 

my advice?

Learn2playbetter

I don't mean that dismissively, I mean that is your solution. Skill and experience is not just more important then gear in GSF, its a whole different level more important, you cannot compare them. Yes you will get your *** slagged a lot, you are the new guy in the middle of a bunch of vets, its how the system works in any PvP. GSF is more unique in that it has more room for skill then other PvP games.

 

Example, Battlescout VS gunship and battlescout is already within 5000m and just popped their kill buff (in your sights I believe it was called?)

sounds like that Gunship is screwed?

Not Quite

I am a gunship Pilot, that scenario happens to me several times a match, and my deathcount at the end of that match is usually 0

 

How can I do this? Because I am very good at defensive flying and making use of LoS. Only a few scout pilots on my server can actually shoot me down (Yallia topping that list...), the rest SD, get peeled or give up after chasing me for so long (and then get a slug to the back for the trouble).

 

in short, I know how to fly better then most of the scout pilots, so I can OUT fly them using.....nothing more then boosting and knowledge of the map really, I rarely need to pop any abilities. Another gunship is more of a threat to me then a group of scouts. Well to me anyway

 

What Gear helps me do this? Not barrel roll (I run Interdiction drive) and Not Distortion field (don't USUALLY need it anyway) BTW.

 

Spawn camping is childish and BULL.

 

And in other, hopefully more breaking news.....

 

Anyway, if your issue is spawncamping......well thats why there is more then one spawn point in all but 1 map.

Any other issue is with Skill or Gear, for reference, this is the pecking order in scale to importance

Stable Internet>>>Skill&Knowledge>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gear>>>the Upgrades to the gear

 

gear makes nowhere near as much difference as it does in normal PvP

 

Upgrading can take time, but just getting the stock equipment has a massive impact, and THAT is easy to get.

Play a few games and get the req for the equipment for teh important things, THEN upgrade them when you have the right equipment

 

coming to the forum to learn is a good thing, but there is no sense in complaining about a gear difference in a PvP game, it comes with being new to the game, nothing you can do about it cept gearup yourself.

Edited by DreadzKaiser
fixin typos
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ONLY if you are lucky. There is a player on JC server that has a Mastered Scorpion. I hits you with two bursts and if you are in a stock ship, you die. But you take 3x as many hits to kill him. How can you compete with that?!

 

There is no Scorpion in GSF.

 

Aside from that. Why do you think you need to go 1v1 against this other pilot? You know he's stronger than you. Run away and hide behind your team. It's easier to kill a pilot who outskills you if you outnumber him.

 

How to compete with a veteran? The same way you compete in every other good PvP game. Play the game, practice, get a veteran yourself and teamplay.

Edited by Danalon
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I am an avid PVP and GSF player and I have one serious complaint about GSF. If I'm on a toon that is just starting out, *** am I doing going against players that have ALL their ships MAXED?!

 

There is NO EFFIN WAY I can kill a Maxed out Scout with ANY ship w/o help and lots of times there IS NO HELP.

 

That's what's so STUPID about PVP in this game: I'm don't have the gear so I'm going to die because the other side is FULL of people WITH gear and it's EASY to tell who does and doesn't have gear.

 

This forum is full of great ideas to help a new person. Most of your posters on here could wreck a new person with a maxed scout. It is called experience, before whining about it you might want to get some.

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ONLY if you are lucky. There is a player on JC server that has a Mastered Scorpion. I hits you with two bursts and if you are in a stock ship, you die. But you take 3x as many hits to kill him. How can you compete with that?!

 

OK, terrific, you're on JC.

 

We have a fairly helpful community, in GSF generally, and on JC specifically. Before rage compels you to self-destruct your way to oblivion (which, incidentally, we've seen before, and it sucks), please, I beg you, ask for some help. /cjoin gsf if you haven't already, and/or whisper/mail me in game (several toon names in my sig) or send a PM. I'm not going to tell you anything vastly different from what you've heard in this thread (skill trumps gear, yadda yadda) but at minimum I can explain some things, give you some pointers, hook you up with a group to ease the learning curve...or...something. Sabotaging games isn't the answer. Don't be that guy.

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to in the quote above (though assuredly it's someone I know), and admittedly we do have a few, err, vindictive folks on our server. Aces who take every death personally, some who won't think twice about mining/camping the enemy's spawn, or teams that will roll out six mastered bombers in a dom against eight noobs. But they're the minority. Largely we're a sporting bunch, more interested in fostering interest in GSF than crushing the opposition to dust. I completely understand the frustration, please just let us try to help you through it.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Oh. And I'm not going to tell my name so you never know when it will happen but, the NEXT TIME I get spawn killed, I'm going to switch to the opposite faction as the person that spawned killed me and THROW EVERY TDM match. I will suicide until we loose the match.

 

That is an extremely childish reaction. Throwing a full scale temper tantrum like that punishes the people who aren't doing that to you, too, and just makes you the pettiest, most unworthy player in the match. Be better than that. Petulant displays like that won't teach anyone to stop what you dislike. They'll become more aggressive about doing it to you and others inside. That's exactly how NOT to teach someone a lesson.

 

The advice in this thread is important. GSF is very much a game of skill and gear won't mean anything if your team isn't looking out for one another. Above all PVP in this game, GSF really relies on solid teamwork. A team of new pilots in stock fighters will hose down an experience team if the new pilots sync up and the veterans all go their own way. I've watched it happen. More than once.

 

It doesn't matter if you think spawn camping is bull. It can be overcome. I see that happen all the time, too. Just apply some patience, some time and some experience as you gather it. Don't expect a magic I WIN button, for either side, because it just doesn't exist. You need to put the work into GSF to get the benefits from it, and if you expect that to be over and done with in one match, well, prepare for a learning curve. Once you've got a handle on it, it's great fun.

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