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Considering a return to GSF, Question about state of the game.


JadenYugari

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So as the title says, I am considering a return to GSF, since I really like the mode. As to why I gave up on this before, I was pretty much expecting a fast paced space combat game(minigame), however when I started to encounter GS + bomber balls more and more frequently I basically grew tired of this since, for me, it simply turned the whole GSF into a Trench War Online.

 

Has anything changed about this? I mean, for example if GS clusters can be dismantled without seizure-like piloting to evade being one-shot and if scout or strike can 1v1 a bomber camping a satelite and have an average chance of winning that encounter.

 

I just don't want to queue up for match and find myself against another GS + Bomber clusterf**k as that would probably make me give up on GSF permanently....

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in TDM it mostly boils to GS/bomber balls, unless:

- enemy team does not have GS/bombers

- enemy has significant advantage and decides to earn comms for other ships

- The Strike Night is hosted on that day

 

Domination seems much more ballanced, though bomberball @ B + gunships flying between A/B or A/C is also pretty common.

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People fly a variety of ships in every game mode. Bombers and gunships have their place, as do scouts. If you're asking if you will encounter 2/3 of the ship types that are useful in this meta, the answer is yes, yes you will. Yes, sometimes a gunship parks near a friendly drone carrier in TDM, and yes, sometimes a gunship will run toward a friendly drone carrier. That's called playing correctly.

 

You don't see as many bomber/gunship clusters as you used to, at least on Ebon Hawk, because those are actually fairly easy to counter for any player who is willing to change to a gunship for the duration of that game.

 

Edit: I saw something I wanted to address specifically:

 

Has anything changed about this? I mean, for example if GS clusters can be dismantled without seizure-like piloting to evade being one-shot and if scout or strike can 1v1 a bomber camping a satelite and have an average chance of winning that encounter.

 

First of all: unless someone has Damage Overcharge, you are not being one shot and you never were.

 

You may not have realized this (your post implies that you don't) but bomber/gunship/scout is very much like rock/paper/scissors. Can you kill a bomber in a scout? Sure, but you'd better have someone clearing mines for you unless you're significantly better at the game than the bomber is. This is by design. Bombers counter scouts that are otherwise very difficult to peel off of a satellite. Gunships counter bombers. Scouts counter gunships.

 

This isn't a particularly difficult thing to grasp. There are of course exceptions and options within specific ships (charged plating bomber holds up very well vs other bombers for example), but in general, the above is true.

 

Strikes can't 1v1 anything in the current meta if you assume equal skill. The devs have suggested that they might buff strikes, however.

 

I'd also like to point out that wanting to 1v1 is misguided at best in a team game. You should never be playing 1v1. You have a team for a reason. You should be looking for ways to use that team to beat the other team. That is how a team game works.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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You may not have realized this (your post implies that you don't) but bomber/gunship/scout is very much like rock/paper/scissors. Can you kill a bomber in a scout? Sure, but you'd better have someone clearing mines for you unless you're significantly better at the game than the bomber is. This is by design. Bombers counter scouts that are otherwise very difficult to peel off of a satellite. Gunships counter bombers. Scouts counter gunships.

 

 

This one bit is probably my biggest issue with GSF. I generaly dislike the idea of "You have been killed, just because you picked X and the enemy picked Y." In ground PvP (that might be just me) that almost never happened to me, regardless of what class I was going against, just know their strenghts and weaknesses and adapt accordingly. Here it seems that the option to "adapt" with your current ship is blown to hell and you are forced to promptly suicide yourself (which takes time), change ship class + respawn (which also takes time) and then fly again to the battlefield (which takes even more time) generaly meaning you just gave your enemy a free objective (either kill from suicide or uncontasted satellite).

In my opinion, every ship class should have at least average chance of winning a combat against any other ship class with pilots being on the same skill level.

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This one bit is probably my biggest issue with GSF. I generaly dislike the idea of "You have been killed, just because you picked X and the enemy picked Y." In ground PvP (that might be just me) that almost never happened to me, regardless of what class I was going against, just know their strenghts and weaknesses and adapt accordingly. Here it seems that the option to "adapt" with your current ship is blown to hell and you are forced to promptly suicide yourself (which takes time), change ship class + respawn (which also takes time) and then fly again to the battlefield (which takes even more time) generaly meaning you just gave your enemy a free objective (either kill from suicide or uncontasted satellite).

In my opinion, every ship class should have at least average chance of winning a combat against any other ship class with pilots being on the same skill level.

 

 

Or you could - and this might sound crazy - pick a target that is better suited to your current role. Then, if and when you die and the game conditions call for it, you can consider switching ships. In the ground game you wouldn't expect a healer to go around killing the other team very much. That's not their job. GSF is unique in that you aren't stuck in one role for an entire game. That's what I like about it. Team composition isn't working? Change composition!

 

It's not that you can't win in those situations, either. I absolutely can burn down a gunship using a drone carrier. I can kill a scout using a gunship. I can kill a bomber using a scout. I also happen to have thousands of games of experience, and because I know the ships' strengths and weaknesses, I can use them.

 

That is, in many cases, I'm more skilled than the opponent I'm facing. That's what knowing how to use those strengths and weaknesses is. It's a skill. It's something you can learn.

 

And I can't stress this enough: rely on your team. A gunship absolutely can beat a scout if the scout isn't allowed to get close. A scout can beat a bomber if the bomber's mines are cleared out. This is a team game that rewards team play.

 

tl;dr: This is a learn to play issue.

 

 

Edit: I forgot to point something out: the best way to learn to counter a ship is to play the ship you want to counter. From what I remember of the OP's last thread, he didn't play anything but scouts and strikes. It's no wonder he can't beat a bomber or a gunship; he doesn't know how, and despite the advice offered to him, he never bothered to learn.

 

So, to the OP: I stand by what I said above. This is a learn to play issue, and either you're willing to learn, or you aren't.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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You can be one shot if:

 

You fly a scout.

Someone shoots a mastered slug railgun at you, it hits, and it crits at about 90% charge.

Someone pops telemetry on you with burst lasers:

1: Your directional shields were pointed the wrong way and it crits.

2: It had DO and crit at very short range.

 

The reason people like to GS/bomberball is simple: the tactic is the one which requires the least amount of coordination. Unless the enemy team is coordinating its attacks, this is also the one which requires the least amount of skill-just enough situational awareness to kite the angry scout around until distortion field runs out so your teammate can kill it. If the ball stays far enough back, people will usually fly into that in ones and twos, which is really stupid.

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The people replying to this thread is 100% right, play the game enough and you will learn how to defeat legit every tactic devised ever. That being said, they were still just a bit rude about it. They likely didn't intend to sound like they were talking down to the OP, but that's how it came across to me. So I wanted to say, no matter the tone you think any of us may have taken with you, we still totally have your back and really do want you to get (back) into GSF.

 

On that note: The best advice I can provide for wanting to get back into GSF is to do one of two things.

 

The first is create a republic :sy_republic: character on Bastion and talk to a member of my guild (/who Defiant, /who kik, /who lace) about our free GSF training. Bastion rarely has bomber/gunship balls, because aces on our server rip them apart np with their greater coordination and overall skill (and ion spam, but i didn't say that), and we can give you the skills and tools you need to better preform on the server or faction of your choice. (Dismantling gunship/bomber balls is hella easy once you know how)

 

The second is to play on a super high population server, like harby, and /cjoin GSF. In this way, you would be able to ask several skilled (and moderate) players from several different servers for advice, groups, and the like. Then take skills you learned from harby back to the server/faction of your choice. (Their aces also know how to dismantle GS/bomber balls.)

 

I hope that you do get back into GSF, and I this post helps you to find resources to better preform and understand the game. Thank you for your time.

Edited by CommanderKiko
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Nothing has changed.
This is the most accurate response to your question, OP. If you didn't like GSF for what it was, there's little chance you'll like it for what it is now - since it's pretty much the same.
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Seems like I will stay away from it a while longer and wait if devs decide to balance things or something...........GSF could really use something like a dogfight mode with only scouts and strikes allowed.

 

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

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GSF could really use something like a dogfight mode with only scouts allowed.

This is what you mean.

 

Also, the idea of dogfighting in GSF is silly. The game isn't designed for it, you have too little inertia and too much speed. Winding dogfights, Battle of Britain style, are not going to happen. Getting on someone's "six" is not great when they can rapidly face about or zoom behind an obstacle at hypersonic speeds. "Rolling scissors" just don't happen. Frontal passes aren't mutually lethal when you can blow your evasion cooldowns and run at them at an angle while still taking pot shots. Etc, etc.

Edited by MiaowZedong
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This is what you mean.

 

Also, the idea of dogfighting in GSF is silly. The game isn't designed for it, you have too little inertia and too much speed. Winding dogfights, Battle of Britain style, are not going to happen. Getting on someone's "six" is not great when they can rapidly face about or zoom behind an obstacle at hypersonic speeds. "Rolling scissors" just don't happen. Frontal passes aren't mutually lethal when you can blow your evasion cooldowns and run at them at an angle while still taking pot shots. Etc, etc.

 

No, I mean strikes and scouts.

 

Back when GSF started, I remember it was only strikes and scouts and the occasional gunship (they were only handed to some people, don't remember the rule they set for it).

This was the time when I had the most fun, and I was piloting a strike fighter. Haven't touched any of the scouts, no full evasion builds etc.

 

Then they introduced gunships as a regular ship class. People started complaining a bit about GS ball but it was still mostly fun for me as GS balls were manageable.

 

Then they introduced bomber class and everything went straight to hell. Fun combat basicaly died out, game became all about who gets the bomber first to satellite, drops minefield and goes afk while gunships kill any attempt of dismantling the said bomber.

 

I really wish GSF would return to the phase right after launch, because that was the GSF I was looking forward to. Not this slow campfest.

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No, I mean strikes and scouts.

 

Back when GSF started, I remember it was only strikes and scouts and the occasional gunship (they were only handed to some people, don't remember the rule they set for it).

This was the time when I had the most fun, and I was piloting a strike fighter. Haven't touched any of the scouts, no full evasion builds etc.

 

Then they introduced gunships as a regular ship class. People started complaining a bit about GS ball but it was still mostly fun for me as GS balls were manageable.

 

Then they introduced bomber class and everything went straight to hell. Fun combat basicaly died out, game became all about who gets the bomber first to satellite, drops minefield and goes afk while gunships kill any attempt of dismantling the said bomber.

 

I really wish GSF would return to the phase right after launch, because that was the GSF I was looking forward to. Not this slow campfest.

 

What he means by this is Strikes are absolutely useless. If its "strikes and scouts" only the only viable ships would be Scouts.

 

The only thing that HAS changed since bombers came out was a nerf to bombers where the mine would not hurt you if you were LOSING it when it exploded meaning Bombers ARE easier to dismantell on a node. That how ever doesnt mean their job has not changed.

 

Fact is if you thought it was "Ok" with strikes and scouts because you thought strikes were in an "ok place" then I find it highly likely you were flying a scout, and those strike fighters do not share your opinion, because they had a massive handy cap against you... just like they do for all ships currently.

 

If you want a mode where strikes and Scouts will be more prevelant.... just wait till bioware actually does their buff to strikes. At which point strikes will be more common and you may actually get your wish. But if you want a mode with just "strikes and scouts" in its CURRENT rendition, then if we are all being honest then you are ACTUALLY asking for an all scout game, because strikes are not a viable choice ever nor have they ever truly been.

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Again, fly on bastion. Many aces here have recently been flying strikers against less skilled pilots in order to encourage them to keep flying and practicing. Our matches tend to be more fast paced, we have far less in the way of bomber balls with gunship walls - although it does still happen. Most of our bomber pilots also don't AFK, recently we've generally been flying agressively using off builds. We have a big variety of different classes being flown on our server since most our aces bailed to harby for faster pops, got caught up irl, or have been messing around in off ships.
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I really wish GSF would return to the phase right after launch, because that was the GSF I was looking forward to. Not this slow campfest.

 

You mean when scouts with a lolinvincibility button (hi, old Disto!) could hold a node solo against anything short of an entire team? When matches really were down to whoever capped first?

 

No thanks. That would (and did) get boring quickly. Endless sat humping was the game, and once you got a pesky Disto scout on the node, they were a real pain to peel off.

 

Again, fly on bastion. Many aces here have recently been flying strikers against less skilled pilots in order to encourage them to keep flying and practicing. Our matches tend to be more fast paced, we have far less in the way of bomber balls with gunship walls - although it does still happen. Most of our bomber pilots also don't AFK, recently we've generally been flying agressively using off builds. We have a big variety of different classes being flown on our server since most our aces bailed to harby for faster pops, got caught up irl, or have been messing around in off ships.

 

I do play on Bastion once in a while. Between very slow pops and a quiet community, I greatly prefer The Ebon Hawk. Bastion's dying, just like the other PVP servers. That's a shame, but it's the case.

 

Also, no bomber pilots AFK against competent opposition because that's not an effective tactic. Ever. Regardless, the OP wants a different game than the game we're actually playing. No amount of offering to help him is going to change that. He doesn't want to learn, and we can't make him. His loss.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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The game was super broken before Bombers. The only ship worth playing in Domination was BLC/cluster scout with max evasion. And the winner was the guy who was better at timing his cooldowns and got better RNG luck. Edited by RickDagles
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