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Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6


cashogy

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Dear BiowarEA: These changes (or changes like them) need to be made the the Mercenary/Commando advanced class in 1.6. Im going to use Merc terminology throughout this, but obviously Commando equivalents apply. The previous thread was moved, however this issue is directly related to patch 1.6 currently on PTS. These changes *need* to be made in this current development cycle. Perhaps not sent to live, but they *need* to go on PTS as a sign of good faith. Here is the original thread, with 5,000 views and 18 pages of discussion.

 

Lets get started.....

 

General Mercenary:

- Missile Blast now slows the enemy by 30% for 6s (Mercenary only change, will not affect Powertech's Missile Blast)

 

Arsenal Tree:

- change Muzzle Fluting, a tier 2 box, to the following: Muzzle Fluting: Reduces the activation time of Power Shot and Tracer Missile by 0.5 seconds. In addition, Rocket Punch has a 100% chance to proc 3 charges of "Run and Gun". Abilities with cast times will activate instantly, and consume 1 charge of "Run and Gun". "Run and Gun" lasts for 15s, or until all charges are consumed. This effect cannot occur more than once every 20s

- power barrier -> change this back to 2% damage reduction per stack

- change Afterbuners, a tier 3 box, to the following: Rocket Punch has a [50 / 100]% chance to KNOCKBACK the target. In addition, Jet Boost's knockback effect is stronger and pushes enemies [2 / 4] meters further away.

- change Jet Escape, a tier 4 box, to the following: Reduces the cooldown of Jet Boost by [2.5 seconds / 5 seconds] and Determination by [15 seconds / 30 seconds] AND you have a [50 / 100]% chance to increase your movement speed by 30% for 4s after using Jet Boost

 

 

Pyrotech Tree:

- switch System Calibrations (tier 1 Pyrotech) with Hired Muscle (tier 1 Combat Medic).

- change Hired Muscle to [2 / 4]% tech and ranged critical chance increase

- change Deguass, a tier 3 box, to the following: Energy Shield has a [50 / 100]% chance to remove all movement-impairing effects when activated and a [50 / 100]% chance to be immune to all movement-impairing effects for the duration of Energy Shield

 

 

Combat Medic Tree:

- switch System Calibrations (tier 1 Pyrotech) with Hired Muscle (tier 1 Combat Medic).

- change System Calibrations to increase alacrity by [1 / 3 / 5]%

- change Superheated Gas, a tier 2 box, to vent 16 heat (up from 8)

- allow Kolto Shell to be applied to an unlimited number of allies, and reduce its heat cost to 8

- change Cure Mind, a tier 5 box to the following: Cure now removes negative mental AND FORCE effects and heals the target for X

- reduce cooldown of Emergency Scan to 18s

 

 

 

These are all relatively simple changes to make. Now, before I get a ton of people telling me these changes would imbalance PvE or make Merc OP in PvP, realize that none of these changes will significantly affect damage output or healing output. They are, for the most part, all changes to increase mobility and utiltiy of the Merc class.

 

I encourage players to show their support for Mercs, who have become the joke of PvP over the last 6 months. Im more than willing to discuss why i think these mechanics are necessary, as I do think all of these changes *need* to be made.

 

With a new warzone in 1.6, there will be more focus on PvP. Overall class balance needs to be addressed, and these changes will bring Merc up to a level where they can effectively compete.

Edited by cashogy
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I was incredibly skeptical about making Tracers/Gravs instant, but I *love* the run and gun proc idea. Wonderful compromise which gives us extra oomph when we most need it (engaged in melee) without overpowering us when we don't (chasing down targets etc).

 

Altogether, I wholeheartedly support these ideas - they would seriously help a class that need a lot of help right now in PvP. I'd also like more complex changes (rocket packs as proposed before) for the future, but understand we need something NOW.

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I think that "Run and Gun" idea might just work. It's perfect that it would proc off rocket punch, because currently we just rocket punch and run away doing virtually no damage (just to be leapt back to). I also agree with the switching of the bottom tier talent from pyro to combat medic, because pyros have to waste points to get to the next tier (plus I always spec into hired muscle anyways).

 

Anyways, the slow attached to missile blast solves our absence of slows, or the random unreliable slow from cgc in the pyro tree. The only thing I can see is that we'd run into heat problems, but I guess that would prevent us from keeping our target perma-slowed.

 

I support these changes, at least some of them. The jetpack escape ability that has gained popularity would be great for those new abilities they said classes would be getting.

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I do like the Run and Gun idea and everything below it, but i don't know about that missle blast 6s slow, because

A.) We can spam it; it would kill our heat and not be a very practical source of dps, but just because we CAN will make other classes cry nerf, because they won't see our side of it--all they'll see is "INSTANT CAST SLOW *** OP NERF MERCS AND OPS"

B.) Powertechs would get PO'd because they wouldn't get it and they'd claim to be jipped.

I think its fine as is, but others wouldn't, so i'd propose putting a shorter slow or maybe even a short CD on it.

Edited by Sith_Creed
Messed up italics
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I do like the Run and Gun idea and everything below it, but i don't know about that missle blast 6s slow, because

A.) We can spam it; it would kill our heat and not be a very practical source of dps, but just because we CAN will make other classes cry nerf, because they won't see our side of it--all they'll see is "INSTANT CAST SLOW *** OP NERF MERCS AND OPS"

B.) Powertechs would get PO'd because they wouldn't get it and they'd claim to be jipped.

I think its fine as is, but others wouldn't, so i'd propose putting a shorter slow or maybe even a short CD on it.

 

a) Meh, I think the heat cost is so extreme as to make it only 'spammable' for a very short time. That short time would give us some much needed utility however, as well as providing extra defense before a cast chain.

 

b) PTs can already spec into permanent ranged snare (which is what prompted many mercs/mandos to ask for an 'equalizer' in the first place)

Edited by Jherad
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b) PTs can already spec into permanent ranged snare (which is what prompted many mercs/mandos to ask for an 'equalizer' in the first place)

 

My apologies for slightly taking this off topic.

 

No they cannot, the only slow that they can apply over and over without fail is Hamstring off Retractable Blade, a 4m ability.

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a) Meh, I think the heat cost is so extreme as to make it only 'spammable' for a very short time. That short time would give us some much needed utility however, as well as providing extra defense before a cast chain.

 

b) PTs can already spec into permanent ranged snare (which is what prompted many mercs/mandos to ask for an 'equalizer' in the first place)

 

Good points, and I agree with both. I just don't know if the general populus of maras/sentinels will. :p

Edited by Sith_Creed
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The reason why your last thread got so long was because a lot of what you are proposing makes no sense.

 

As long as players keep asking for completely ridiculous changes like these, it's no wonder that BW has no idea what has to be done.

 

At least you removed the DPS nerf to TM and buff to HSM which you used to have in your proposed changes to the Arsenal tree, good that you finally managed to understand why that was such a bad idea.

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The reason why your last thread got so long was because a lot of what you are proposing makes no sense.

 

As long as players keep asking for completely ridiculous changes like these, it's no wonder that BW has no idea what has to be done.

 

At least you removed the DPS nerf to TM and buff to HSM which you used to have in your proposed changes to the Arsenal tree, good that you finally managed to understand why that was such a bad idea.

 

point out specifically which of the changes on this current list make no sense.

 

i have removed/modified suggestions based on community feedback several times.

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My apologies for slightly taking this off topic.

 

No they cannot, the only slow that they can apply over and over without fail is Hamstring off Retractable Blade, a 4m ability.

 

You're forgetting the right tree: Spammable Flame DoT slow.

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You're forgetting the right tree: Spammable Flame DoT slow.

 

That is a common misconception, as just by reading the text it would appear to work that way. Flame Burst augmented with the Bursting Flame and Sweltering Heat skills will not apply the Sweltering Heat slow consecutively for more than two times in a row.

 

To enable Sweltering Heat the ability to be applied again, you must either:

 

Wait for the your target to not have the CGC dot

or

Have another railshot refresh the CGC dot on your target (Superheated Rail).

 

Chilling Scream and Hamstring are examples of spammable perma slows.

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That is a common misconception, as just by reading the text it would appear to work that way. Flame Burst augmented with the Bursting Flame and Sweltering Heat skills will not apply the Sweltering Heat slow consecutively for more than two times in a row.

 

To enable Sweltering Heat the ability to be applied again, you must either:

 

Wait for the your target to not have the CGC dot

or

Have another railshot refresh the CGC dot on your target (Superheated Rail).

 

Chilling Scream and Hamstring are examples of spammable perma slows.

 

i believe what was being referred to was that Powertech is able to keep their target perma-slowed through the use of Flame Burst, which also procs the CGC dot as well as procs Rail Shot resets.

 

 

either way, Missile Blast is a perfect candidate for a slow like this. it is very high heat cost, very low damage. meaning it cannot be spammed while maintaining effective dps, and that it cannot be spammed as a means to produce effective dps. spamming of Missile Blast would allow for a perma-slow effect, but would result in quickly overheating and significantly reduce damage output.

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i believe what was being referred to was that Powertech is able to keep their target perma-slowed through the use of Flame Burst, which also procs the CGC dot as well as procs Rail Shot resets.

 

 

either way, Missile Blast is a perfect candidate for a slow like this. it is very high heat cost, very low damage. meaning it cannot be spammed while maintaining effective dps, and that it cannot be spammed as a means to produce effective dps. spamming of Missile Blast would allow for a perma-slow effect, but would result in quickly overheating and significantly reduce damage output.

 

You quoted where I addressed that very thing.

 

Again.

 

Flame Burst augmented with the Bursting Flame and Sweltering Heat skills will not apply the Sweltering Heat slow consecutively for more than two times in a row.

 

versus something like Hamstring which will apply its slow indefinately, assuming the target is not immune.

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Rocket punch immobilizing, knocking back and making your 3 next casts instant is a tad too much.

Immobilize + knockback would already be too much on it's own.

 

The change to cure mind is the single most op thing i ever heard, no class should be able to cleanse all effects.

Edited by Spoletta
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Rocket punch immobilizing, knocking back and making your 3 next casts instant is a tad too much.

Immobilize + knockback would already be too much on it's own.

 

The change to cure mind is the single most op thing i ever heard, no class should be able to cleanse all effects.

 

why? gunslinger can do it Oo

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You quoted where I addressed that very thing.

 

Again.

 

 

 

versus something like Hamstring which will apply its slow indefinately, assuming the target is not immune.

 

Hmm, odd. I never noticed this before. I'll admit I'm wrong. :D

 

 

I think this is a bug though, I don't see why some DoT refreshers allow the ability to re-apply slows when others do not. This may have something to do with the proc'ing system.

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point out specifically which of the changes on this current list make no sense.

 

i have removed/modified suggestions based on community feedback several times.

 

I'll be honest, before I made my last post I just looked through your post really quickly and didn't notice that you had made a lot of changes, I just assumed that it was similar as to what your old post was. The suggestion you posted originally were so crazy that I didn't bother checking back.

 

I apologize to you for commenting and dismissing your post without reading it again. What you have now looks a lot better, great job. :)

 

I support making these changes to the Merc class (other than possibly the changes to Cure, Force and Tech dispelling is split up between the Tech and Force healers, but I'm not too bothered by it).

Edited by Rassuro
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Yes to Missle Blast slow.

No to unlimited tramua probes. just allow it to be on 2 extra people

Yes to Run and Gun. Minor change: can only be used on tracer/powershot and maybe fusion missle. I could see a really annoying hybird with this if it stayed the way your have it now.

No to Cure change cleansing force dots would be to much sadly :(

 

Everything else seems fine to me I really do love the run and gun thing tho. I would love for them to make our threat dump drop roots when used.:)

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A lot of these changes seem to be oriented toward damage, but IMO they also need to seriously look at healing. I'm currently leveling a Scoundrel (Operative), and am a few levels short of being able to evaluate the top tier heal (the AOE HOT), but it seems clear that on PVE/ops heals, Sage/Sorceror dominates, Scoundrel/Operative is next, and Commando/Mercenary is picking up the rear by a ways.

 

I don't know anyone who'd prefer to take a Commando/Mercenary when they could take a Sage/Sorceror for a healer instead.

 

I really think that Kolto Bomb (sorry, my 50 BH is a Powertech, don't know the Mercenary names off top of head) needs a buff to be competitive with Salvation/Revivification from the Sage/Sorceror. Like either what's been suggested, that its Residue hits a lot more people, has a bigger radius, OR it smart-targets the people with the most damage instead of just proximity, et cetera. SOMETHING.

 

Frankly I wish it was more like Salvation/Revivification, that there was some ability that was as useful as that one is. I sure wouldn't weep if that instant free heal every 20 seconds got removed for an AOE HOT like the other two have.

 

Also, the new self-heal is a joke. The Sage/Sorceror gets to self-heal at the tap of a button; the Mercenary/Commando has to put the reactive heal on himself (when it really works a lot better on the tank), then fire his weapon at an enemy. This is effectively taking two heals away from the group, because usually the reactive heal would be on the tank or on self, and the gunfire would be getting used on everyone else.

 

Frankly, I think it's stupid. Just give the Mercenary/Commando a self-heal like the Sage/Sorceror. For crying out loud, just allow self-targeting with the gunfire heal too. I truly don't understand why the Mercenary/Commando works the way it does, which may work out mathematically on some dev spreadsheet to be balanced, but it sure doesn't seem that way, and I think it's safe to say most PvE players don't perceive it that way.

Edited by Autorch
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Rocket punch immobilizing, knocking back and making your 3 next casts instant is a tad too much.

Immobilize + knockback would already be too much on it's own.

 

The change to cure mind is the single most op thing i ever heard, no class should be able to cleanse all effects.

 

spec'd properly, a sniper can use their knockback (which applies a root), have an instant-cast snipe, and then have 6 seconds of energy-free Overload Shots. and the sniper knockback is aoe.

 

so i do not think that Rocket Punch, a single target ability, being able to knock back 10m, root for 2-4s, and allow an Arsenal Merc to use 3 abilities with cast times instantly, is unbalanced in anyway. and for Pyrotechs, they would only be able to receive the "Run and Gun" proc; the knockback+root is higher in the tree, and would require a hybrid build.

 

 

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as far as combat medic changes, i have suggested a few things based on my time playing the spec. i do think that Kolto Shell should be able to be applied to all allies. Operative and Sorc are able to apply their HoT/reactive heals to all group members. i do think that ALL healers need to be able to cleanse ALL debuff types. that is a confusing mechanic; healers should be able to effectively cleanse their allies. just because the debuff comes from a Sorc and not a Sniper is no reason for a healer to be unable to cleanse a DoT/Debuff. ive also made a few other suggestions for Combat Medic, but overall the healing spec is the most well-off of the Merc trees.

 

also, a Merc healer would be able to pick up Muzzle Fluting if they wanted (for the "run and gun" proc), for only 6 points in Arsenal. this would give them the ability to heal on the move if an enemy closes to melee range, something that the class really really struggles with.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

i had posted this before, the link is in the first post of this thread. it had reached 18 pages, and just over 5,000 views before the moderators moved it to the BH Class forum, where it will likely never get seen. if we could keep this thread going with the same kind of constructive discussion as the first thread, hopefully bioware will see that the community cares about this issue and that it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

Edited by cashogy
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You've got to realize that the only updates to the merc class that everyone (except mercs) will approve would be to replace our blasters with rubber chickens and let us throw eggs at opponents. That way it's more of a laugh when we get slaughtered.

 

They don't want a fighting merc and they don't want competition. It's a shame that the instant Tracer Missile idea was abandoned. That had true potential.

 

Let me know when we get those chickens.

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You've got to realize that the only updates to the merc class that everyone (except mercs) will approve would be to replace our blasters with rubber chickens and let us throw eggs at opponents. That way it's more of a laugh when we get slaughtered.

 

They don't want a fighting merc and they don't want competition. It's a shame that the instant Tracer Missile idea was abandoned. That had true potential.

 

Let me know when we get those chickens.

 

 

Actually I think the run and gun idea has a lot of potential and is more than a healthy balance between what we have now and instant tracers. Support it whole heartedly and we'd be guaranteed to get our setup out pretty much once every HiB/DR cycle.

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