Jump to content

Alacrity


MachoLL

Recommended Posts

Right so I just came back to this game after a long break, and I heard that alacrity has gotten alot better though I don't know to what extent. So currently I am maining a deception sin (High Power+Crit+5% Accu) and my old Carnage Marauder I am looking to get geared soon. Only problem is, after having a break for so long I have no idea what my stat priorities should be. So exactly how much alacrity would you suggest for those 2 characters?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right so I just came back to this game after a long break, and I heard that alacrity has gotten alot better though I don't know to what extent. So currently I am maining a deception sin (High Power+Crit+5% Accu) and my old Carnage Marauder I am looking to get geared soon. Only problem is, after having a break for so long I have no idea what my stat priorities should be. So exactly how much alacrity would you suggest for those 2 characters?

 

I would go closer to 110% accuracy for carnage just because you want to make sure your burst never misses. I know some of the most talented carnage marauders out there constantly run 110%.

 

I was always told you should run high Alacrity for carnage to help get your burst out faster as well as have a higher chance to kill a target during your burst window. For high Alacrity builds you should run above the threshold: [1860 rating]. There was a recent discovery that the GCD in Alacrity rounds up. 1860 will give you a 1.3 GCD without wasting stat.

 

0-702 Alacrity = 1.5sec GCD

703-1859 Alacrity (7.15+%) = 1.4sec GCD (1.39991)

1860+ Alacrity (15.41%) = 1.3sec GCD (1.29971)

https://www.rambol.net/home/2017/10/24/alacrity-and-the-global-cooldown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see. Thanks for the advice, so 1860 for my marauder. But what about my deception sin? I have never worried about alacrity on my sin before preferring the higher burst over slightly faster gcd's. But then again I haven't played in a while. Edited by MachoLL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see. Thanks for the advice, so 1860 for my marauder. But what about my deception sin? I have never worried about alacrity on my sin before preferring the higher burst over slightly faster gcd's. But then again I haven't played in a while.

 

All I know is deception is pretty bad right now with them removing stun reduction from their utility tree. That being said personally don't know or play it so I can only give my advice for Carnage. I will say though the Alacrity suggestion still stays the same. You want either a low (703 rating) or high (1860 rating) Alacrity build regardless than throw other stats around. You can always be safe in stacking around 1800 crit range. If you have more stat left over throw them into mastery or power depending on what you like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not particularly worried about the current stage of how good/bad a sin is, that is why I am also planning on maining a marauder. I play mostly regs and the occasional solo ranked (as I don't currently have a guild, group ranked is out of the question anyhow). But based on what you're saying I think I am gonna stick with 703 alacrity with my sin then, thanks again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not particularly worried about the current stage of how good/bad a sin is, that is why I am also planning on maining a marauder. I play mostly regs and the occasional solo ranked (as I don't currently have a guild, group ranked is out of the question anyhow). But based on what you're saying I think I am gonna stick with 703 alacrity with my sin then, thanks again.

 

Yeah, you'll have fun no matter how you build your toon. Enjoy :).

 

Ps- Mara is very good right now in this current meta. If at anytime you wanted to do ranked you are in a good spot playing Marauder.

Edited by kissingaiur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not particularly worried about the current stage of how good/bad a sin is, that is why I am also planning on maining a marauder. I play mostly regs and the occasional solo ranked (as I don't currently have a guild, group ranked is out of the question anyhow). But based on what you're saying I think I am gonna stick with 703 alacrity with my sin then, thanks again.

 

I run a sin with around 110% acc and alacrity that puts me in the 14.08%. As far as being needed though it's personal preference. I actually prefer a slightly faster rotation just my preferred play style( heck I even tried maxing out alacrity just to experiment and while rotation speed is insane its like hitting with a wet noodle) I have also ran with only 2 enhancements and rest power which is very hard hitting when all the proverbial proc's actually proc at same time. I also know peeps that say accuracy isn't needed. I've run with 115% and still get misses and dodges but with the influx of OP snipers and merc's I just run with 110%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see. Thanks for the advice, so 1860 for my marauder. But what about my deception sin? I have never worried about alacrity on my sin before preferring the higher burst over slightly faster gcd's. But then again I haven't played in a while.

 

713 or 1866 Alacrity, I advise the higher number because otherwise the only other stat you can invest in with new augments is crit. And above 2000 crit with less less than 1866 alacrity is... not smart. To put it mildly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of my mains has always been a deception sin and is currently my only toon in full 248 after coming back from a long break, although it is now mostly shelved due to the recent update that broke the discipline for a variety of situations. I fell in love with it during the beta when a deception sin would wreck my sorc, warzone after warzone, so I chatted him up, got some tips and then played one since then. I find the following setup to work the best for deception in PvP:

 

1 Accuracy enhancement or in my case implant is all you need for accuracy. With the companion bonus that puts the accuracy somewhere in the 104.3% range, off the top of my head. Putting on one enhancement is worth the minimal loss in crit/surge for a large boost in accuracy, especially given that Voltaic Slash is most likely over a quarter of all damage.

 

Alacrity to the first sweet spot, 1.4 GCD, so any way you figure to getting to low/mid 700s in alacrity.

 

The rest are all crit enhancements.

 

As far as augments go, I still use the 228 ones and I usually go 7-8 Versatile ones and the rest are mix of crit and alacrity to get to where I need to be.

 

This puts me at about 104.3 Accuracy, about 7.3% Alacrity, ~46% crit, ~73% crit multiplier and my bonus force damage sits at close to 3800.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I main a Fury Marauder and I've played with high1900 and low780 alacrity constantly for a while now.. switching for a 1 week and changing back to see what is best.

 

In my case 1900 alacrity is way to go as fury marauder. Especially now with full superior alacrity augments which give me power too.

 

Rotation is faster, hits are still big enough to count and the playstyle is overall better.

 

Advantage that alacrity has ?

 

In ranked arenas I always have something ready to hit and this was a big problem in long fitghts with low alacrity.

 

it all comes down to personal style. I prefer the faster rotation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

713 or 1866 Alacrity, I advise the higher number because otherwise the only other stat you can invest in with new augments is crit. And above 2000 crit with less less than 1866 alacrity is... not smart. To put it mildly.

 

Aight, I might just do that, thanks for the advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

713 or 1866 Alacrity, I advise the higher number because otherwise the only other stat you can invest in with new augments is crit. And above 2000 crit with less less than 1866 alacrity is... not smart. To put it mildly.

 

Yeah absolutely... Lets just deny the versatile augments.... Rest in Piece :((

 

/qsarcasm -> For a burst set up run with 703-800 alacrity and invest the rest into versatile augments (for the new set) or a mix of versatile and overkill of the 228 set... Thats what Im running on my Operative (main....).... For mara (and deception) Id still take the 105% ccuracy (2 enhancements if 248 / +1 augment before you get 248 range)... Just dont replace 2 of the accuracy enhancements you get from gearing (gloves + offhand) and get the missing alacrity to get in 703-800 range by augments... All other augments into full overkill (228) or full versatile (236)...

Edited by xChAoTiXx
denial ~> "deny"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would go closer to 110% accuracy for carnage just because you want to make sure your burst never misses. I know some of the most talented carnage marauders out there constantly run 110%.

 

I was always told you should run high Alacrity for carnage to help get your burst out faster as well as have a higher chance to kill a target during your burst window. For high Alacrity builds you should run above the threshold: [1860 rating]. There was a recent discovery that the GCD in Alacrity rounds up. 1860 will give you a 1.3 GCD without wasting stat.

 

You don't really need that kind of alacrity anymore for carnage, it's kinda a waste now since the windows are stack based, and that 1860 alacrity for getting an extra GCD out of it is unrealistic in PVP for most than the very best of players perhaps, it may work when you have productive uptime [dummy parse, good up time on a boss etc] but alacrity loses some of it's value when uptime is broken, and given the amount of stuns, slows, roots and movement buffs maintaining a period of uptime that would compliment that build for carnage is unlikely. It may be a more appropriate option for Fury because it's uptime is much better due to it's increased mobility and it's passive cc-immunities.

 

Carnage does not need alacrity like it did prior to 5.6. You will do better with higher power/crit builds now. They just dont need that kind of speed anymore since BW killed the playstyle. Add to that the alacrity buff from the stance and the beserk ability, you should really not be running too much alacrity in your gear. Some alacrity is good for all specs, but Carnage no longer has any need for special consideration for it beyond that really, unless you just like the faster feel to it, but it's not really going to benefit you anymore like it use to. The alacrity use to be so important because it could make the difference of getting two attacks into the window that might be harder or impossible to do without a certain amount of alacrity [ The beserk window you couldnt get the 4th attack without it via clipping, and the 3rd attack in the non-beserk window was an extremely tight fit, but with enough alacrity you could fit that third attack in without the need for clipping at all.

 

As far as accuracy is concerned for PVP, there are different schools of thought, as was pointed out given it's high white damage output accuracy is still important to the spec and I wouldn't recommend running no accuracy. but most people run about 105% accuracy for high white damage specs. The added value of full 110% accuracy can go either way in my experience, and I'm not saying anyone is 'wrong' for running full accuracy, individual play styles compliment tweeks here and there to norms, I haven't noticed much of a difference running 105% accuracy than 110%, but you definately have to sacrifice some burst to get it. Given that Carnage has has it's burst nerfed heavy in 5.6 compared to what it use to be able to do, that's a consideration as well. You'll miss some with Ravage, but it's extremely rare that I miss with any of the other burst attacks in the window. Ravage is low priority now anyways, coming in just above massacre, lowest priority of the heavy hitter attacks tho. - I don't think there is a wrong or right to it, if some feel they get something out of the full accuracy than sure go with it, I personally don't think it's worth it, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

The alacrity though, it's just not worth it anymore for Carnage and it's a dps loss with the new Ferocity window. Carnage no longer requires high APMs to maximize it's burst, it's burst has been capped off. Even the beserk ability has very little value now and the spec would be better served with something else. You just don't need that kind of speed for a 10 second window, quote honesty, you don't need any. 10 seconds for three instant attacks will never be an an issue, more so even for the non-beserk window.

 

It's not the same spec anymore. I personally hate the change, but, some people like the added reliability of it, but the DPS loss out weighs it. Carnage was a high risk/ high reward high skill set spec with insane speed, that was part of it's beauty, but that's gone now and I wouldn't recommend playing the spec like it was still that way, that build just doesn't apply well to the new changes of the spec and is a wasteful point spread. You can use it, sure, and it will function okay, but you are sacrificing a notable amount of damage by using the old stat spread.

 

Honestly, I wish they'd change the name of the spec now, this just isn't Carnage. But, to each their own, if some people like the change, more power to em.

Edited by WayOfTheWarriorx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok stupid question time

 

i know alacrity lowers your gcd, does it also lower cool down for each individual ability?

 

Yes alacrity deceased cd of your casts and channels, gcd, most abilities, some internal cds. It's a good stat.

 

@Grim - Carnage is all about getting as many Ferocity windows out as possible. High alacrity will never be bad for Carnage players.

Edited by kissingaiur
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You really dont want to use those.

 

You also want to use Accuracy on conc Operative, right? ^^

 

Besides a high alacrity set up, which is definitely not for everyone (including me and a looot of others for obvious reasons), which - under the corect sircumstances - will give you increased DPS, the other decent option is a high burst set up (for obvious reasons as well)...

Since going ballsdeep into crit DR is not an option nor does it make sense, the common way to go is to bump your bonus damage... And you do this by stacking mainstat/secondary stat... Which is through versatile augments in the 236 area...

That way youll go over 4k bonus damage which will actually give you way more burst capabilities than a high alacrity set up does... (assuming you go for alacrity between 700 and 800 ofc)

Also, as often mentioned alacrity suffers from a lot of things and I dont think that the bit of added DPS (also if you suffer from any of these issues youll dont get added DPS) never outweigh the additional burst when it comes to winning WZs, neither so in regs and objectives nor so in ranked.

But obviously the question do I want to get additional DPS or additional Burst is a question everyone hast to answer for themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You also want to use Accuracy on conc Operative, right? ^^

 

Sure, if you're doing ranked and facing off a lot of tanks. Accuracy works against resists the same way it works against dodges and misses.

 

 

Besides a high alacrity set up, which is definitely not for everyone (including me and a looot of others for obvious reasons), which - under the corect sircumstances - will give you increased DPS, the other decent option is a high burst set up (for obvious reasons as well)...

 

 

Lets not spread any misinformation here. Your burst isnt higher, it lasts longer.

Ultimately does more damage in the window but initially definitely doesn't keep up.

 

Since going ballsdeep into crit DR is not an option nor does it make sense, the common way to go is to bump your bonus damage... And you do this by stacking mainstat/secondary stat... Which is through versatile augments in the 236 area...

 

 

That's great if you care about seeing big numbers and not much else.

Its worse for control, its worse for setting up kills, its worse for initial burst and

all in all you just put a ****ton of points into a stat that gives marginal overall gains compared to the alternatives.

 

Don't kid yourself here, a high (1866) Alacrity build does FAR more damage overall than a high Mastery build.

Edited by Evolixe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes alacrity deceased cd of your casts and channels, gcd, most abilities, some internal cds. It's a good stat.

 

@Grim - Carnage is all about getting as many Ferocity windows out as possible. High alacrity will never be bad for Carnage players.

 

The alacrity effecting cooldowns and such is why I said that Carnage can still benefit from some alacrity just like any other spec. All specs benefit from decreased cooldowns, carnage doesn't have any casts though so that's a non-issue for it. The cooldown decreases reaches a cap point where no amount of alacrity will decrease the cooldown any further.

 

Ferocity window damage is capped now. Of course getting out as many Ferocity windows as possible is the most advantageous style of play, which is why I recommend not using the full 10 seconds of a window to get attacks out if possible because having the ferocity window off cool down isn't going to help you if you have to wait for certain attacks to come off cool down before using it again. While you can use things like Massacre or Ravage in a ferocity window, it isn't ideal, and it's a DPS loss and should really only be used in a pinch. You want Vicious Throw and Devistating Blast in every window. Obviously, that doesn't apply if your going for AOE than you want Sweeping slash [Not being able to put Dual Saber Throw into the window anymore really only hurts in the AOE case].

 

The thing is, when you have alacrity to the level you suggest, and there is nothing wrong with it if you are putting personal preference and feel first, you are sacrificing a good amount of damage on a fairly constant basis in doing so. Even if we discount the added critical chance [ you wont always crit after all], the added power and crit x on set bonus criticals [and other criticals you may get as well] will far exceed even an extra Ferocity window or two that you may get from extreme levels of alacrity. To be fair though, that extra Ferocity window, or one less second of it coming coming off cooldown, might make a difference in whether u drop an opponent in a close fight.

 

Overall though, in terms of DPS output, the extreme high alacrity build will put out less overall DPS than a more moderate alacrity build with increased levels of power and critical. Personally. I wish it wasn't that way, as I personally much prefer a high alacrity build feel wise, and is one of the large reasons I am upset about the change to Carnage because it's killed that playstyle for me. Given the DPS loss this change [5.6] has caused the spec which resulted in about an 800 DPS loss, I don't really want to sacrifice more DPS by continuing to use a high alacrity build even if I prefer the feel of it.

 

I've tested it both ways, dummy parsing and live [PVP], the higher Power/Critical build beats out the high Alacrity build in DPS. More so in PVP than anywhere else. I can't give the math on it, I just don't have the mind for that side of it [You'd need to ask a Hayete or Radley for that side it, they have the minds for the math], I've based that finding solely on performance observation testing of builds. It sucks cause I'd much rather have the speed, but the numbers for it just don't add up DPS wise.

 

That's not to say that people shouldn't use a higher alacrity build if it suits their playstyle preference moreso than some damage. The difference in damage between the builds isn't massive, I would estimate [like I said, I don't have the mind for specific math calculations] at about 200-300. Again, that's just an estimate, I could be off. But, the DPS definately favors the moderate alacrity, higher critical/power build in PVP.

 

Nothing would make me happier if that was not the case. For a burst spec, bigger hit's matter a lot. The alacrity has always had more limited value in PVP than in PVE as achieving it's full benefits is linked to continuous uptime, which is why you will find it's benefits more on a dummy parse than you will in live action, PVP being the medium wherein you will find the least instances of continuous uptime. Even with lower levels of Alacrity in one's gear, Carnage will still gain the base +3% bonus to alacrity from it's stance bonus, and a + 30% alacrity bonus from it's berserk ability, which alone will make it untouchable, during it's duration, in terms of alacrity compared to any other spec/build in the game.

 

Anyways, I'm just sharing my findings with others so they can make the choice for themselves. Max DPS output in PVP is not quite the same as it is regarding dummy parsing or even Operations bosses to a somewhat lesser extent, a difference in DPS output will really only effect those who are performing at near optimal levels for the medium in question. I would say the build differences will effect players on all levels but to different degrees. In terms of sheer burst potential, the Power/Critical build comes out ahead.

 

Caveat being, there is no accounting for taste, and what we are trying to get out of our experience is different for everyone, so there can't be a one size fits all anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...