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If not RNG ... then what are the options?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
If not RNG ... then what are the options?

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
09.07.2019 , 12:54 PM | #11
Heres the thing, there SHOULD be some RNG, just not layers of it.
Look what we have now, you have a change to get the upgraded gear directly, if not you get the components to go get it.
Having a change to get the drop then go buy something that has a chance to give you what you want or more parts to get more chance without any guarantee to ever get what you want or get it so far behind everyone else its pointless, ... is not anything anyone ever asked for or wanted.
RNG by itself isnt bad and should be part of it, RNG upon RNG upon RNG without any guarantee is terrible.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.07.2019 , 01:02 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
They at least pretended to have a reason with the previous ones.
Even back then when they started their updates that began tearing apart facets of the game I once loved they didn't really explain why they took out 3.0 and the PVP vendors etc.

In fact, personally I was blindsided by the gutting of the gear system back then because of all the things wrong with the game then, i didn't perceive the gearing system as something that needed a lot of attention. I also was annoyed and frustrated because of a lack of explanation behind those big sweeping changes.

Now, they did gut conquest and then they even added explanations as to why they changed it, but it made no sense at all.

If I remember it correctly, they explained the conquest changes as a way to make smaller guilds more competitive versus the larger guilds. This was total BS because in reality smaller guilds ended up with even less of a chance to be competitive in conquest. The explanation simply did not correlate with the results.

That's why it's so hard to trust BW anymore, I mean even when they give explanations the explanations themselves don't hold water.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
09.07.2019 , 01:07 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
Heres the thing, there SHOULD be some RNG, just not layers of it.
Look what we have now, you have a change to get the upgraded gear directly, if not you get the components to go get it.
Having a change to get the drop then go buy something that has a chance to give you what you want or more parts to get more chance without any guarantee to ever get what you want or get it so far behind everyone else its pointless, ... is not anything anyone ever asked for or wanted.
RNG by itself isnt bad and should be part of it, RNG upon RNG upon RNG without any guarantee is terrible.
This is the exact point that me and a couple others have made. It's one thing to use it .. let's say for "bonus" material of sorts... but quite another to make it the main driving implementation for the majority (if not all) gear.
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OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
09.07.2019 , 01:13 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Even back then when they started their updates that began tearing apart facets of the game I once loved they didn't really explain why they took out 3.0 and the PVP vendors etc.

In fact, personally I was blindsided by the gutting of the gear system back then because of all the things wrong with the game then, i didn't perceive the gearing system as something that needed a lot of attention. I also was annoyed and frustrated because of a lack of explanation behind those big sweeping changes.

Now, they did gut conquest and then they even added explanations as to why they changed it, but it made no sense at all.

If I remember it correctly, they explained the conquest changes as a way to make smaller guilds more competitive versus the larger guilds. This was total BS because in reality smaller guilds ended up with even less of a chance to be competitive in conquest. The explanation simply did not correlate with the results.

That's why it's so hard to trust BW anymore, I mean even when they give explanations the explanations themselves don't hold water.
I remember at one point if I had an extra piece of gear that had mods I needed for something else... I could strip them out and reuse said mods where and as needed. Not any more. If those mods come out of a head piece... then that is the ONLY place it will go! I don't remember WHEN that changed exactly but it did! Talk about aggravating. Now if you get an extra piece...
1. It's usually bound to you
2. It's useless! Which accounts for the bulk of what you get even out of CC's.

Back to what works:
Keep it simple as stated here:
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
Of course it can be answered, it WAS answered in the other big thread about 6.0 RNG Gearing.

Tokens: different difficulty content rewards more or less Tokens.

Trade In: Trade Tokens directly for the GEAR YOU WANT.

Simples.


All The Best
This ^^^ or at the least some simple variant of this !! It's not that hard to understand!
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Darev's Avatar


Darev
09.07.2019 , 01:36 PM | #15
I've often said that there should be one standard currency, call it whatever you want, that drops from EVERYTHING you do.
Do cz-198 weeklies....get 100 units
Do SM EV...get 100 units per boss
DO HM EV...get 300 units per boss
Do MM EV...get 600 units per boss

Go to whichever vendor you want and buy whatever gear you need.

Couple that with the gear trade in system for upgrades that we have...

That system would work. Trade in + standard currency. Buy whatever you want from the vendor.
If you choose to fight in the sewer you can no longer claim to have the moral high ground.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.07.2019 , 01:45 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
I've often said that there should be one standard currency, call it whatever you want, that drops from EVERYTHING you do.
Do cz-198 weeklies....get 100 units
Do SM EV...get 100 units per boss
DO HM EV...get 300 units per boss
Do MM EV...get 600 units per boss

Go to whichever vendor you want and buy whatever gear you need.

Couple that with the gear trade in system for upgrades that we have...

That system would work. Trade in + standard currency. Buy whatever you want from the vendor.
I agree with that. I mean that truly would be a "play it your way" system. I don't really see any downsides to it, either.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
09.07.2019 , 02:50 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by OlBuzzard View Post
This is the exact point that me and a couple others have made. It's one thing to use it .. let's say for "bonus" material of sorts... but quite another to make it the main driving implementation for the majority (if not all) gear.
Its ok to use it even for the gear in my view, adds some excitement. It just shouldnt ever be the driving force or primary path.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth

Darev's Avatar


Darev
09.07.2019 , 02:59 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
Its ok to use it even for the gear in my view, adds some excitement. It just shouldnt ever be the driving force or primary path.
Well, RNG is the primary method of gear creation in the current PTS build.

They don't seem to want to move away from it.
If you choose to fight in the sewer you can no longer claim to have the moral high ground.

aeterno's Avatar


aeterno
09.07.2019 , 03:10 PM | #19
In an ideal world gear would be gated by actual content. But seeing how we can only dream of 10 flashpoints and 4 operations per expansion, like that other game that won't be named, we're honestly stuck with RNG and system redesigns to reuse old content. That's the sad truth.

I always felt Ossus grind was getting too much stick from people and that we'll end up missing it. And there lies a big lesson for BW in Ossus and in 6.0 feedback. There is this tendency that the systems ala crystals, that BW intends as supplemental, in practice turn out as the "main way" to gear. It's due to predictability, ability to focus effort towards a specific goal and plan around it. Sure people will hate a drawn out grind. But they'll hate a drawn out grind paired with layers of RNG even more. So in lieu of actual content... I'd pick the lesser evil.

Feels like warframe was a big inspiration. Thing about that game is it pairs RNG mitigator effects and low drop rates with the fact you can roll the dice very often speedrunning maps hunting for exactly what you want. How exactly they thought that would translate into an MMO with lockouts on content that takes a considerably longer time to complete I don't know. Of course the uber grindy vendors originally meant to "fill the gaps" are going to be the new crystals grind. We'll end up gearing by hoarding tech parts to buy as much as possible from the rotating inventory. It's gonna feel great to miss a week just when that chestpiece you wanted for a month was listed. Just like WF lol. Reminds me why I quit that game.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
09.07.2019 , 03:59 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
I've often said that there should be one standard currency, call it whatever you want, that drops from EVERYTHING you do.
Do cz-198 weeklies....get 100 units
Do SM EV...get 100 units per boss
DO HM EV...get 300 units per boss
Do MM EV...get 600 units per boss

Go to whichever vendor you want and buy whatever gear you need.

Couple that with the gear trade in system for upgrades that we have...

That system would work. Trade in + standard currency. Buy whatever you want from the vendor.
I'm not certain that I would agree 100%... but I must admit I see your point. It's simple... clearly presented and well for the most part works.

Let me throw this out:
We also know that a part of the new system will include shells that are legacy bound... (and perhaps other stuff too). Getting a complete set would generate "bonus" stats. Is this not correct ?

What if said armor shells would be a part of the RNG system ( and some other items along the way as well) Those items (more than likely also Legacy bound) .. could easily be some interesting gear items.

IMO... players as a general rule can work at.. save credits (or new currency system) .. get what they actually want AND use the random components as a bonus (depending upon what area and level completed) ??

I'm just spit-balling here !

For whatever it's worth your suggestion still works. And RNG is more of a fill-in-the-blank-spots NOT the primary means of obtaining gear.

Thoughts ?
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