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Remove kolto probes from operative DPS


Benirons

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So i had an arena match on my merc healer with 3 dps vs 4 dps, one of them fully decked out 258 operative.

 

After the first round they ended up doing two thirds of my healing. some 600k v 400k. We lost, i died first i think, no im not great, but im also not a trash can.

 

That is a lot of *********** healing on a DPS.... y is kolto probes not an exclusive operative healer ability? Insta cast, low energy cost. At the very least a DPS should not be able to cast kolto probes on group members unless they r specced heals.

 

Operative can simply do too much, basically acting as a healer and a very very slippery DPS as well.

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So you would also suggest that Sorc and Merc should lose the equivalent?

 

How about dps who can tank, taunt or off guard?

 

What about tanks that setup themselves up to skank tank?

 

All of them are a hybrid setup. Why should Operatives lose something and not the others.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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sigh. trixxie, you do realise operative kolto probe is signifacantly stronger than any offhl in swtor?

 

they can pop 2 on everyone in the wz with a 15 sec duration for 5k hl every second. compare that to sorc. they can cast 1 dot hl on one person then it goes on cd for as long as it lasts. about 5 second. no, mercs have legit no equavilant. not even kolto shot because they have to sacrafice signicant dps to use it for pathetic hls on one target. when people say nerf ops there is a very good reason, Everything they can do, they do it better than every other class. they may not be able to do everything in swtor, but what they can do, they do better than everyone else.

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So you would also suggest that Sorc and Merc should lose the equivalent?

 

How about dps who can tank, taunt or off guard?

 

What about tanks that setup themselves up to skank tank?

 

All of them are a hybrid setup. Why should Operatives lose something and not the others.

 

What is the merc equivalent? Sorc bubble does not do nearly as much as a kolto probe, and sorc DPS normally dont have the presence to bubble others in an average game.

 

Feels like u r upset at ur fav class being targetted? Operative DPS can do way too much healing by pressing a few buttons. Healing is way better than a lousy amount of absorb. Sorc bubble has a lockout too, longer on a DPS, it is perfectly fine. imagine 4 DPS operatives. They r unkillable if they just keep throwing a hot on the others every now and then, cause guess what, all the kolto probes in the world stack.

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PVP nerfs also nerf PVE which most forget. Every time they nerf PVP they break PVE.

 

Yes. They never should have joined the two, should have remained separate but it didn't so now this is what we deal with.

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PVP nerfs also nerf PVE which most forget. Every time they nerf PVP they break PVE.

 

Yes. They never should have joined the two, should have remained separate but it didn't so now this is what we deal with.

 

This wont do much to PVE, if anything. DPS operatives need to do dmg, not heal. That is the healers job. If ever they do NEED to heal, it is a nicher scenario or something went horribly wrong aka outlier case and can be ignored as an adverse impact.

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What is the merc equivalent? Sorc bubble does not do nearly as much as a kolto probe, and sorc DPS normally dont have the presence to bubble others in an average game.

 

Feels like u r upset at ur fav class being targetted? Operative DPS can do way too much healing by pressing a few buttons. Healing is way better than a lousy amount of absorb. Sorc bubble has a lockout too, longer on a DPS, it is perfectly fine. imagine 4 DPS operatives. They r unkillable if they just keep throwing a hot on the others every now and then, cause guess what, all the kolto probes in the world stack.

 

Off healing vs off healing is all that’s needed here. If you want to remove off heal on one class then you need to do it for all. Same as all hybrid specs.

 

If your problem is it is too powerful, then you don’t ask to have the ability removed, you ask for the ability to be nerfed. Then you provide numbers to support your case.

 

Just because someone over healed vs your own performance, doesn’t mean an ability needs a nerf. It might mean you need to get better. And considering your post is the first I’ve seen (in this meta) to complain about this ability, I have a feeling it’s most likely your own perception when compared to your own ability.

 

Also, while I have an Operative. I’m less than mediocre on her, so I mainly use her to farm mats. If I’m going to pvp, I’ll be on my Jugg, Sin, Sorc, Mara, Sniper or Merc. I don’t play a PT or Operative in ranked or regs.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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This wont do much to PVE, if anything. DPS operatives need to do dmg, not heal. That is the healers job. If ever they do NEED to heal, it is a nicher scenario or something went horribly wrong aka outlier case and can be ignored as an adverse impact.

 

LoL, maybe you should talk to some good Operatives before making such statements. They are by far the number one at 1v1 pvp in this game and you want to give them more dps, lmao.

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LoL, maybe you should talk to some good Operatives before making such statements. They are by far the number one at 1v1 pvp in this game and you want to give them more dps, lmao.

 

bangs head against wall*

 

trixxie... do you know why "nerf ops" is a swtor meme? its because bioware refuses to nerf their dcds. instead they nerf dps. why do they do this and what effect does it have on pvp? they do this because the deciding factor in pve is dps, but the deciding factor in pvp is dcds. this is why "nerf ops" is a comic meme in swtor, the devs hae 0 clue how or even why.

 

what this guy is suggesting is give ops viable dps and nerf their cds. this is exactly what needs to happen because pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds. bioware is just too afraid to nerf dcds because thats coming to close to the sun of not holding pvers hands.

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I don't like using the term, but this looks more like a learn to play issue than anything.

 

Operative off-heals are a useful tool for pvp and pve, but they are not overpowered. If you want to take the op's off-heals away then what will you give them in return? (3 heals-to-full when taking damage would be nice have ...)

 

Every kolto probe that is dropped takes a gcd. If an op is healing, then they are not dps'ing.

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bangs head against wall*

 

pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds. bioware is just too afraid to nerf dcds because thats coming to close to the sun of not holding pvers hands.

 

Where are you getting this? Operatives might not be the top parsing dps spec, but lethality is still one of the better ones. Even concealment ops aren't bottom of the heap for pve.

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Where are you getting this? Operatives might not be the top parsing dps spec, but lethality is still one of the better ones. Even concealment ops aren't bottom of the heap for pve.

 

lethality is an aoe spec, it is dilerately designed to be better at crowd dps than all burst specs and quasy burst spec.

 

as for how good concealment is at pve, I only said it is suffering currently, my comment based on the fact that its well known knowledge that their dps is low in 5.0 pve. Im curious as to which class you believe is lower, maybe burst sorc? thats setting the bar pretty low.

 

while it may be tempting to paste a starparse roster of highest possible dps, keep in mind what decides how viable a class is at pve activities is not starparses top operative extordinaire but rather on average how does the class perform in dps check with your run of the mill guildy or pug player.

Edited by Seterade
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This wont do much to PVE, if anything. DPS operatives need to do dmg, not heal. That is the healers job. If ever they do NEED to heal, it is a nicher scenario or something went horribly wrong aka outlier case and can be ignored as an adverse impact.

 

I'd say it doesn't affect skilled teams in PvP either, and so should be left alone. If you can't focus fire, or organize a team that is willing to focus fire, or, if you are focus firing and still can't overcome some heals, then I'd say the issue is with your team, and not a class feature that's been around for a long while.

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So you would also suggest that Sorc and Merc should lose the equivalent?

 

How about dps who can tank, taunt or off guard?

 

What about tanks that setup themselves up to skank tank?

 

All of them are a hybrid setup. Why should Operatives lose something and not the others.

 

Sounds to me that all of them are a problem.

 

But hey... i don't care about arena.

 

Actually thinking about it, this guy is probably mistaken. The operative was probably virulence and was throwing instant raw heals as well. I doubt the probes alone keep anyone alive.

This particular problem would be solved with the nerf to that trait. But imo, dps shouldn't have such strong off-heals and guards/taunt damage reductions. They should not be as good as the healer/tank versions or outright removed.

Edited by Nemmar
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this is exactly what needs to happen because pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds.

 

It is downright silly to suggest that dps ops are better than dps mercs in pvp right now.

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First of all, "nerfoperatives" is a meme because L2P issues, not because they actually need a nerf. But in a 1v1, a good op will kill you or stall you indefinitely. This is because they are a very mobile stealth toon with offheals.

 

Secondly, an operative/scoundrel in ruffian/lethality has to waste 2 GCD's to apply his HoT's. If he applies them before the match begins, he has to remember to reapply them before they wear off costing 1 GCD for each. If he wants to roll-heal, that costs 2 GCD's: 1 for the roll, and another for the heal. All this time he is not contributing to dps of his team except for whatever dots he has applied to targets. If he has dots applied to enemy targets, then RIP your team's mezzes.

 

Op/scoundrels have a unique playstyle. But that doesn't mean they need nerfs. They can be countered easily by focusing them. Ruffian/Lethality is very squish. Net him and kill him. If he uses a stunbreaker, stun him and global him.

 

Finally, I offheal for more on my sages and sorcs vs ops/scoundrel, not even counting bubble mitigation. Merc/Mando offheals is pretty darn good too. So the issue is probably more with dps offhealing in general, not ops/scoundrels in particular.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Off healing vs off healing is all that’s needed here. If you want to remove off heal on one class then you need to do it for all. Same as all hybrid specs.

 

If your problem is it is too powerful, then you don’t ask to have the ability removed, you ask for the ability to be nerfed. Then you provide numbers to support your case.

 

Just because someone over healed vs your own performance, doesn’t mean an ability needs a nerf. It might mean you need to get better. And considering your post is the first I’ve seen (in this meta) to complain about this ability, I have a feeling it’s most likely your own perception when compared to your own ability.

 

Also, while I have an Operative. I’m less than mediocre on her, so I mainly use her to farm mats. If I’m going to pvp, I’ll be on my Jugg, Sin, Sorc, Mara, Sniper or Merc. I don’t play a PT or Operative in ranked or regs.

 

Oh stop being reasonable. :p

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It is downright silly to suggest that dps ops are better than dps mercs in pvp right now.

 

come on, you know better than that. it is much harder to kill an operative in an arena than a merc. and in a 1v1 an op will kill a merc if they are equal skill.

 

@rion

 

who cares if you lose a gcd for a hl? your VS is a delayed dmg burst, your crippling slash isnt even an attack really, and you have 3k hps. 2 ops have 6k hps.

Edited by Seterade
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So i had an arena match on my merc healer with 3 dps vs 4 dps, one of them fully decked out 258 operative.

 

After the first round they ended up doing two thirds of my healing. some 600k v 400k. We lost, i died first i think, no im not great, but im also not a trash can.

 

That is a lot of *********** healing on a DPS.... y is kolto probes not an exclusive operative healer ability? Insta cast, low energy cost. At the very least a DPS should not be able to cast kolto probes on group members unless they r specced heals.

 

Operative can simply do too much, basically acting as a healer and a very very slippery DPS as well.

 

This is why the Game is like it is BOYZ and GIRZ , Someone comes in here and says oooooooooooooooo PVPVPVPVPVPVPVPVP . Next thing you know is someone saying, man I wish they had not made heals so bad I can not get this operation or vet flashpoint done cuzz we ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL keep dying. This is total par fan BOYz And Fan Grilz.

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At some point, PvPers really need to learn to play, instead of coming to the forums every time they can't beat a class, or some player or another is better at it than they are looking for nerfs. Did ya'll know that at one point in time, Orbital Strike was actually an effective skill in both PvE and PvP? Now some will come back with "but they didn't nerf it for PvP", to which I can only ask "Why wasn't the Heroic Moment version nerfed as well then"? Here's the answer: You can't use comps in WZs. So they didn't nerf it where it can only be used in PvE, but did where it can be used in PvP, seems like an overt PvP nerf to me.

 

"But sorc bubbles providing a HoT is OP, I can't kill stuff when they do that" led to a direct nerf to the bubble. Again, because PvPers don't seem to get what "focus fire" means, PvE got nerfed to accommodate them. The list goes on from there, and here we are, yet again, looking to nerf something "because PvP". Before long, ya'll are gonna be down to just using basic attacks, with no heals, and maybe fighting unarmed, all because some people just don't understand what team work means.

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Hello new face palm thread. It's not OP you need to consider burst vs hot for one. Hots are slow but they're always going to be more rewarding as they are slower. Nontheless, a hot will literally do nothing to save someone if there is enough burst/focus fire on a person to take them down. No dps operative is going to keep anyone alive indefinitely, especially not themselves. I can be far more effective offhealing on a merc just because it's nice and bursty (if they take the cleanse reduction cooldown they can also cleanse their friends faster), and sorcs can rescue people to give them a bunch of mitigation (on a utility). Take all of this into account, it's hardly an overpowered issue. Spend some time learning about the class and how to beat it effectively instead of crying about it on the forums. That said yes offheals can be quite frustrating in arenas for sure. Team work, instead of mindless tunneling, is going to triumph as it rightfully should.
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...and yet, 90% of all PvE nerfs to accommodate PvP are, literally, standing in stupid... Nice try? Go back to your organized duels, and then run back looking for more nerfs, mmkay?

 

lul, standing in stupid in pvp isnt scripted. literaly an op could materialize next you you and drop a toxic haze and a corrasive dart and you are all dotted

 

wanted to add a tidbit here.

 

in gaming there is something called "protecting the player from themselves" if you want to blame pvp for every bad thing, nerf, buff, exploit, fine. we all need a shadow to point our sword at. just remember that a game without challenge, a game without something to overcome is often not worth anything. imagine if in pve you never died, every time you came close you healed to full? sounds magical huh? cept... suddenly you realise nothing has ever killed you, everything is safe, you will never die, you will always win and mary poppins is your nanny.

Edited by Seterade
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come on, you know better than that. it is much harder to kill an operative in an arena than a merc. and in a 1v1 an op will kill a merc if they are equal skill.

 

Obviously an op will win any 1v1, but mercs' dcds and superior dps output make them far better then ops, at least on average. And yes, ops can survive longer, but that requires them to kite, offheal, stealth out, etc. Mercs can just facetank ridiculous amounts of damage while still dpsing. It's possible that the very best ops are better than the very best mercs, but ops are much harder to play properly. Arsenal mercs are brain dead easy to play by contrast. You will never see a bad player do well on an op in ranked pvp, but there are tons (like half the queue) of bad players that play merc and can do okay just because mercs are OP. In other words, I don't believe ops need a nerf just because a literal handful of good op players do really well with them. Mercs absolutely need to be nerfed because their ease of play makes them overpowered even in incompetent hands.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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lul, standing in stupid in pvp isnt scripted. literaly an op could materialize next you you and drop a toxic haze and a corrasive dart and you are all dotted

 

wanted to add a tidbit here.

 

in gaming there is something called "protecting the player from themselves" if you want to blame pvp for every bad thing, nerf, buff, exploit, fine. we all need a shadow to point our sword at. just remember that a game without challenge, a game without something to overcome is often not worth anything. imagine if in pve you never died, every time you came close you healed to full? sounds magical huh? cept... suddenly you realise nothing has ever killed you, everything is safe, you will never die, you will always win and mary poppins is your nanny.

 

I literally gave an example that shows that blaming nerfs to PvE on PvP is perfectly justified. Orbital Strike was my example. Go ahead, demonstrate how leaving the Heroic Moment version alone doesn't show it's a PvP based nerf.

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