(2) Higher skilled / geared players are more likely to drop out of a solo unranked team if they're unhappy with team composition or player quality. I continue to argue that this is the larger issue, because when higher ranked players drop out of a "random" assignment (and I see this a LOT more than I see premade teams), the likelihood of the remaining team members (+ adds) scoring a win is reduced. It's also pretty poor sportsmanship, but that's another discussion.

Especially on JC, since the first round of server merges, this is not true. Some moderately skilled players are known for leaving warzones they aren't winning, but the top tier players from the notable guilds (LD50, Uncensored + The Turks, some Rep Gents, Prime Defense... shameless plug ) made it a point of not just bolting out of warzones. The logic behind it is pretty simple too, quitting reflects poorly on their guild. Now there were plenty of instances of Troy's stream where he would quit out of a wz or recommend quitting out of the warzone, but that just further proves the notion that players of moderate skill level quit significantly more than the players that would be game-changers.

Duran'del Here:

It seems this man believes playing with your friends in a game that is meant to be played with said friend(s) is illegal....

Actually, that's about the opposite of what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that groups have a higher likelihood of winning than non-groups. You can argue how much benefit it provides, but it is not zero. And, even if BW were to penalize group play, ****hats would find a way around it, because that's what they do. Players interested in playing with friends, and not in it for the joy of gaming the system would probably walk away to another game.

Just posting just to say I have a post in here. I wanted to feel like a part of something big.

Go Premades!!! beat Pugs!!

Individual Skill is the largest contributing factor for regular warzones.

Completely agree with you. However, there's a big difference between "largest contributing" and "only". Without some real data from BW, it's all speculation. I'm sure they have the data, and it'd make for a fun statistical analysis exercise.

I guess I'd go one further, though, and say that collective skill is the "largest contributing factor". Using HP as a proxy for skill (not perfect, I know), if I'm the only 35k on a team full of 22ks facing another team that's all at +30, we're toast. My individual skill is not going to get us the win, regardless of whether the other team is using mumble.

A disclaimer: as I've said before, I don't think SWTOR has a significant premade problem. Every MMO has its unique set of issues, and people end up choosing the ones they can live with. I would be concerned with any system-based solution, because it would end up penalizing players simply interested in playing a wz with friends. While the current system isn't perfect, it's working for a significant majority of players.

Just posting just to say I have a post in here. I wanted to feel like a part of something big.

Personally, I'm hoping for my name in the Guinness BWR. If we were able to get some data out of BW to analyze, that'd be the icing on the cake.

Especially on JC, since the first round of server merges, this is not true. Some moderately skilled players are known for leaving warzones they aren't winning, but the top tier players from the notable guilds (LD50, Uncensored + The Turks, some Rep Gents, Prime Defense... shameless plug ) made it a point of not just bolting out of warzones.

I applaud you guys, as during-action drops deserve their own special section of ****, and much tougher penalties to boot. What I see consistently on JC is before-action drops...toons will pop the queue, scope team composition and player levels, and drop if they're not satisfied. This is a PITA in 4v4, where team composition sux so frequently (not fun: 3 snipes and a merc against a bunch of ghosts). I've lost count of the number of solo unranked 4v4 I've done recently where one team or the other starts the first round a man down because someone entered the start area and then dropped. Depending on how quickly the queue is filling, they may never see a replacement.

Maybe it's just an Imp problem, since the majority of PvP I see on JC is Imp v. Imp. And no, I'm not throwing down for a "who's better at PvP discussion"--there's another thread on that topic if someone feels the need. I'm just saying that the majority of my 8v8s are "war games"; and, that more often than not, I'm facing other Imps in 4v4.

Completely agree with you. However, there's a big difference between "largest contributing" and "only". Without some real data from BW, it's all speculation. I'm sure they have the data, and it'd make for a fun statistical analysis exercise.

 

I guess I'd go one further, though, and say that collective skill is the "largest contributing factor". Using HP as a proxy for skill (not perfect, I know), if I'm the only 35k on a team full of 22ks facing another team that's all at +30, we're toast. My individual skill is not going to get us the win, regardless of whether the other team is using mumble.

 

A disclaimer: as I've said before, I don't think SWTOR has a significant premade problem. Every MMO has its unique set of issues, and people end up choosing the ones they can live with. I would be concerned with any system-based solution, because it would end up penalizing players simply interested in playing a wz with friends. While the current system isn't perfect, it's working for a significant majority of players.

I meant it as overall.

I would take a team of 22k good players, then a team of 30k bads

Attention bads still posting in this thread: You can now use the Solo Ranked Arena queue and never fight premades again. That is, until some people queue sync. But you were warned.

This thread needs to be removed.

Attention bads still posting in this thread: You can now use the Solo Ranked Arena queue and never fight premades again. That is, until some people queue sync. But you were warned.

 

This thread needs to be removed.

Aye, so those doing PVP for the first time won't know what hit them and then insulted them verbally in the process. By all means, hide behind the anonymity of the game and bully on ... and on ....and on ... you 'true' PvPer. Ranked 8 vs 8 is gone since you didn't play there ... cos as the 'true' PvPer u were u kept playing unranked and bullied on ... and on ... and on ... imagine u couldn't manage elsewhere ... and ranked 8 vs 8 died ...funny how that went ...

And keep overcompensate, speak your mind freely now ...

visit this one and think again; http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533560

Attention bads still posting in this thread: You can now use the Solo Ranked Arena queue and never fight premades again. That is, until some people queue sync. But you were warned.

 

This thread needs to be removed.

I am on the imp side on Harbringer and because it is the minority faction que syncing is almost guaranteed for 2-4 players except tanks. 2 guildies on chat in solo ranked is the same ratio as 4 guildies on chat in a group in reg WZ. They both both look and smell like premades to me.

Aye, so those doing PVP for the first time won't know what hit them and then insulted them verbally in the process. By all means, hide behind the anonymity of the game and bully on ... and on ....and on ... you 'true' PvPer. Ranked 8 vs 8 is gone since you didn't play there ... cos as the 'true' PvPer u were u kept playing unranked and bullied on ... and on ... and on ... imagine u couldn't manage elsewhere ... and ranked 8 vs 8 died ...funny how that went ...

And keep overcompensate, speak your mind freely now ...

 

visit this one and think again; http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533560

Hopefully english is not your first language.

Now I'll attempt to pick apart your post. First if you wait until level 55 to start PvPing then that is all on you. Players shouldn't be expecting much if they have 0 experience fighting other players in this game. While I despise lowbie PvP it is a great place for players to learn their spec and about warzone/arena fundamentals. Most players won't bag on someone for being bad, only if the person getting smashed starts to complain in either the ops/say/gen chat.

You should go back and reread Sharee's posts and perhaps try again to counter his/her points.

i agree that premades fighting pugs is not fair, but neither is a team without tanks and heals fighting a team with, should we implement a group finder for wz? Augmented obroan vs lvling gear is not fair, should we eliminate gear, a smash mara against a balance shadow isnt fair, should we restrict specs so that only specs of similar power face each other? Restricting pugs vs premades is no different than any of these.

PvP in a mmo is inherently unfair due to the fact that you can customize your character outside of the match; so saying something should not be an MMO simply because it is unfair is a misunderstanding of mmo pvp.

You should go back and reread Sharee's posts and perhaps try again to counter his/her points.

People think they have the same skill level as those who premade.

So then they believe that because of their coordination and voice communication, that's where the loss comes from.

If pugs and premades had the same overall individual skill level, I could defiantly see your point. However, the individual skill levels are not the same. Therefore, you can't blame the loss on coordination.

Coordination is important in warzones for sure, but in regular warzones, it isn't a large contributing factor like it is in ranked. Individual skill is the largest contributing factor for a win. (This applies to the team as a whole)

I am on the imp side on Harbringer and because it is the minority faction que syncing is almost guaranteed for 2-4 players except tanks. 2 guildies on chat in solo ranked is the same ratio as 4 guildies on chat in a group in reg WZ. They both both look and smell like premades to me.

Please please PLUUUEZE tell me you're not suggesting that BW police queue synching. Of all the things one could complain about re: PvP (team composition being #1), this is your gripe?

Like I've said previously, BW should just implement a "My Team Wins" queue in WZs--match the players selecting the queue against players 20-30 levels lower than them. The fragile self-image of premade haterz would be thusly sustained.

Random, semi-unrelated thoughts.....

I played a few unranked WZs for the first time since 2.4 release. (I pretty much only do ranked now.)

I was surprised to see the same premades are still doing unranked. There were a few really good players, but I can't fathom how they still have fun stomping out randoms in unranked! There are a few players that I have never seen without their buddies, and I can't figure out why. They are good players individually but they seem to only play in premades, and only in unranked.

Everyone has a different idea of fun, and for some people.....fun = curbstomping people all day long. That's why premades are still going strong, I guess.

(Not a complaint from me, as I have plenty of fun in solo ranked queue, win or lose.)

Random, semi-unrelated thoughts.....

 

I played a few unranked WZs for the first time since 2.4 release. (I pretty much only do ranked now.)

 

I was surprised to see the same premades are still doing unranked. There were a few really good players, but I can't fathom how they still have fun stomping out randoms in unranked! There are a few players that I have never seen without their buddies, and I can't figure out why. They are good players individually but they seem to only play in premades, and only in unranked.

 

Everyone has a different idea of fun, and for some people.....fun = curbstomping people all day long. That's why premades are still going strong, I guess.

 

(Not a complaint from me, as I have plenty of fun in solo ranked queue, win or lose.)

If my friends are on we like to play together. Why would you not play with your friends when they are on? We are good but we don't always win. We have even had our guild Qing on different factions in order to face each other. Solo quing is less fun in my opinion because there is no shared experience and most pugs suck so bad it isn't even salvageable.

If my friends are on we like to play together. Why would you not play with your friends when they are on? We are good but we don't always win. We have even had our guild Qing on different factions in order to face each other. Solo quing is less fun in my opinion because there is no shared experience and most pugs suck so bad it isn't even salvageable.

Like you said, you are good but don't always win. There is still a challenge and you can obviously improve in areas. And a challenge is what keeps it fun.

In my example, its the same premade for a long, long time. Same dudes curbstomping opponents with one hand tied behind their backs. I was just making the observation that it seems like that would get boring. I didn't suggest for them to solo queue, I just suggested to try ranked if they don't already. But that wasn't really my point.

I kind of mean to answer the initial question and reason for this thread (Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones): Some people are into that. ie "Ruining" your WZ by kicking your rear. Queue for solo ranked and you will avoid people who love to maximize their teamwork over voice chat.

Random, semi-unrelated thoughts.....

 

I played a few unranked WZs for the first time since 2.4 release. (I pretty much only do ranked now.)

 

I was surprised to see the same premades are still doing unranked. There were a few really good players, but I can't fathom how they still have fun stomping out randoms in unranked! There are a few players that I have never seen without their buddies, and I can't figure out why. They are good players individually but they seem to only play in premades, and only in unranked.

 

Everyone has a different idea of fun, and for some people.....fun = curbstomping people all day long. That's why premades are still going strong, I guess.

 

(Not a complaint from me, as I have plenty of fun in solo ranked queue, win or lose.)

Why are you surprised? Unfortunately though. the PvP population is getting smaller, and the result is that the you either face the gangs that like to pugstomp or you stop PvPing, and as more people stop, the more this thread makes sense.

Why are you surprised? Unfortunately though. the PvP population is getting smaller, and the result is that the you either face the gangs that like to pugstomp or you stop PvPing, and as more people stop, the more this thread makes sense.

The thread doesn't make any sense. It's just people being delusional

If a premade of 4 good players queued together, and DIDN'T have any form of TS. Would they still wreck bad pugs?

Of course, because personal skill is the LARGEST contributing factor in regular warzones.

In regular warzones, extreme coordination is not as vital for a win compared to ranked. It's important and helps for sure, but it doesn't win or lose a game.

When people say that premades only win because they got TS and good class roles (2 dps, 1 tank, 1 heal), they assume that the pug was at even individual skill to begin with. This is never the case. Since 90% of pugs are terrible, and will lose regardless if good players are on TS together or have good class roles.

Why are you surprised? Unfortunately though. the PvP population is getting smaller, and the result is that the you either face the gangs that like to pugstomp or you stop PvPing, and as more people stop, the more this thread makes sense.

PvP population is getting smaller? Really? Maybe it's just JC, but I'm not seeing it. My experience has been that when the JC server is busy, the solo unranked PvP queue pops in under a minute (lvl55 PvP). Often, the queue pops immediately on clicking the queue button--which can be amusing if you then need to rush to regear. Even when the server is lightly populated, I don't have to wait more than 3-5 minutes for a pop.

When people say that premades only win because they got TS and good class roles (2 dps, 1 tank, 1 heal), they assume that the pug was at even individual skill to begin with. This is never the case. Since 90% of pugs are terrible, and will lose regardless if good players are on TS together or have good class roles.

You vastly underestimate the impact TS coordination has on the game. There is a reason why every remotely "serious" PvP guild out there has TS - it has a huge impact on team coordination and overall performance.

What I don't understand is - how is it possible that if I queue for unranked solo warzones, I get dumped into a warzone with a frikkin' premade on the other end? Aren't they supposed to be in another queue? Or do people actually wait until they're in a given warzone, then hop into a TS channel depending on who got sorted where?

PvP population is getting smaller? Really? Maybe it's just JC, but I'm not seeing it. My experience has been that when the JC server is busy, the solo unranked PvP queue pops in under a minute (lvl55 PvP). Often, the queue pops immediately on clicking the queue button--which can be amusing if you then need to rush to regear. Even when the server is lightly populated, I don't have to wait more than 3-5 minutes for a pop.

I remember when it used to be that way, but not any more. Queue times are ok at peak, but off peak they are getting longer and longer. And no, I do not have a screen shot to prove it, but I am now even seeing messages in general chat asking why there are no queue pops.

Edit: The other thing that I am seeing now that I did not see in the past is that it seems like at least half of the warzones that I queue for are now training exercises instead of faction against faction. I don't know why this is happening, but on thing that makes sense to me is that people are letting premades squash their desire to queue.

What I don't understand is - how is it possible that if I queue for unranked solo warzones, I get dumped into a warzone with a frikkin' premade on the other end? Aren't they supposed to be in another queue?

No, "working as intended". Unranked has no solo queue. It will mix groups/premades with PUGS. Which is why this thread even exists