Title says it all.

 

My question: what can be done about this? Of course I ignore the person immediately after the flashpoint so that I don't risk teaming up with a greedy a**, but is there much else any one can think of? I thought about starting to need on their heavy armor to drive the point home. It just seems so stupid, particularly with custom armor since they are going to drop it later on because medium custom armor isn't as good as heavy custom armor .

I have bad news for you. I have a Guardian. I use the GREED button when I roll for loot that isn't necessarily meant for my toon specifically. Perhaps I'm going to use it for one of my companions, perhaps I'm not. Maybe I am going to strip the gear for the mods and apply them to a companions armor, or maybe even my own? I have just as much right to roll for the loot that dropped as you do. That's the whole point to the roll and the GREED button.

If there isn't any other viable alternative, can perhaps Bioware set up a system to where if you are a heavy armor, you can't use light and medium and so on and so forth. At least then the incentive is lessened greatly to have other players yank armor that you really could use.

That system IS in the game. I can't use medium or light armor with my Guardian. I CAN strip those gears of mods if I rolled for it and WON the gear. You're suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to roll for loot drops when we helped and (in so many cases for the Guardian) defeated the NPC that dropped the loot, enabling you to even get a chance to roll for the loot?

Yeah, good luck with that.....

I don't see the problem with this. In a PUG setting, if the gear matches the primary stat for your class, you should feel free to need it. End of story. Nobody gripes when a Commando and a Vanguard both need on the same piece of aim gear, or a Sage and a Shadow both need on a willpower saber.

What pisses me off is when some cheeky Sentinel hits "need" on the light armor Columi gloves that my Shadow actually DOES NEED, because he "can use it for his pet."

I have bad news for you. I have a Guardian. I use the GREED button when I roll for loot that isn't necessarily meant for my toon specifically. Perhaps I'm going to use it for one of my companions, perhaps I'm not. Maybe I am going to strip the gear for the mods and apply them to a companions armor, or maybe even my own? I have just as much right to roll for the loot that dropped as you do. That's the whole point to the roll and the GREED button.

 

 

 

That system IS in the game. I can't use medium or light armor with my Guardian. I CAN strip those gears of mods if I rolled for it and WON the gear. You're suggesting that we shouldn't be allowed to roll for loot drops when we helped and (in so many cases for the Guardian) defeated the NPC that dropped the loot, enabling you to even get a chance to roll for the loot?

 

Yeah, good luck with that.....

The OP wasn't talking about using "GREED" (which is of course ok) but rather a guardian choosing "NEED" for medium armor.

My own stance on this issue:

If I'm grouped with a sentinel while playing my DPS guardian I won't roll "NEED" on medium armor. If there's no sentinel in the group I ask the group beforehand if it's ok to need on medium armor for the mods and act accordingly.

I don't see the problem with this. In a PUG setting, if the gear matches the primary stat for your class, you should feel free to need it. End of story. Nobody gripes when a Commando and a Vanguard both need on the same piece of aim gear, or a Sage and a Shadow both need on a willpower saber.

 

What pisses me off is when some cheeky Sentinel hits "need" on the light armor Columi gloves that my Shadow actually DOES NEED, because he "can use it for his pet."

This I understand. The use of NEED vs. GREED shouldn't have to be explained. Having said that, if someone uses Greed for their pet, and they win the item, then you really have no right to complain. They do have a right to roll for the item, but they should NOT be using the Need button when rolling if it isnt for their Toon.

If I'm grouped with a sentinel while playing my DPS guardian I won't roll "NEED" on medium armor. If there's no sentinel in the group I ask the group beforehand if it's ok to need on medium armor for the mods and act accordingly.

There's nothing wrong with that if it's how you want to roll, but nobody should feel bound by this. As someone pointed out above, the weight split between the two strength classes is an anomaly that other classes in the game don't have to deal with, and it means both guardians and sentinels have only half the odds of even seeing a piece that matches both weight and stat for their class. It's fair for both classes to roll NEED on both weights if they want, because both can wear the stat even if they can't wear the shell.

The OP wasn't talking about using "GREED" (which is of course ok) but rather a guardian choosing "NEED" for medium armor.

 

My own stance on this issue:

 

If I'm grouped with a sentinel while playing my DPS guardian I won't roll "NEED" on medium armor. If there's no sentinel in the group I ask the group beforehand if it's ok to need on medium armor for the mods and act accordingly.

I don't see him/her mentioning that the Greed button was/wasn't used, that's why I'm thinking that the OP is crying because they lost the loot to someone else.

As far as asking the group about Need, you are correct. It is the polite thing to do. I never roll NEED. I either do GREED or PASS. It eliminates all whining and keeps things fair. The roll is about as fair as you can get.

Probability of Loot Drops (Before bias)

 

Aim (25 percent)

Willpower (25 percent)

Cunning (25 percent)

Strength (12.5 percent Medium)(12.5 percent Heavy)

 

How is that fair to roll roll need on strength gear as long as it does not belong to someone else in the group?

Where did you get that info? I'm not disagreeing because I know, im asking because I've never seen that number before, and that seems an illogical way to approach gearing. your assuming that they're basing the probability on stat distribution rather then gear "class" (light, medium. heavy). so I would need to see your reference before I take that as canon.

ON the OP: I can see why people would be motivated to need on items for the mods. However, I'm not that kind of person. Im running FP's regularly. If it were an HM Op, I could see the excuse for BiS. but I SERIOUSLY doubt that any mods from HM FP's are Bis at this point. so that's no excuse for FP's. and if your Ops leader is allowing it...well, guess you should find another Ops leader if you disagree. but for normal PuG's...there's no need to need on another classes gear.

However, that being said...if everyone greeds on the item, and I want to need on it, I will wait till everyone else rolls, then ask if i can need (this is out of respect). I have never had anyone turn me down. I've also noticed this is a common behavior...if 2 peeps greed, and the third guy is waiting. its probably because he wants to do the same. So ill then ask him if he wants it for a comp, or mod upgrades. And I'll decide at that point.

But if it's a class specific items (agent rolling on gloves), ill let him have it. it's not so much of a loss in a FP that I wont get a chance later on. anyoen who does that in a FP IMO needs some help.

I don't see him/her mentioning that the Greed button was/wasn't used, that's why I'm thinking that the OP is crying because they lost the loot to someone else.

 

As far as asking the group about Need, you are correct. It is the polite thing to do. I never roll NEED. I either do GREED or PASS. It eliminates all whining and keeps things fair. The roll is about as fair as you can get.

Yeah, this isn't about the GREED button. I'm referencing a guardian using NEED on a medium armor set.

I don't see him/her mentioning that the Greed button was/wasn't used, that's why I'm thinking that the OP is crying because they lost the loot to someone else.

 

As far as asking the group about Need, you are correct. It is the polite thing to do. I never roll NEED. I either do GREED or PASS. It eliminates all whining and keeps things fair. The roll is about as fair as you can get.

You know how it works right? If you always roll Greed or Pass than anytime someone else rolls Need you automatically lose. You cannot win the roll against a Need unless you roll a Need.

Somewhat ironic seeing that Need is actually the greedy roll.

This is where the old school MMO players disagree with the newbies. The old rules are never followed because the newbies make it up as they go, in order to fit whatever they want at any given moment with little to no regard to others.

When you are on a Jugg, as a Tank, and you need on Marauder gear, you are dead wrong. I don't care how you want to sit and justify it. Players who want to play like this should indicate they plan to play like jerks ahead of time, not the other way around. These type players make me absolutely sick.

It is all about the mods and people will roll on whatever they think they need. There is no need to get all butt hurt over it, after all it is just a game. If you are worried about then you need to talk to your group before hand and discuss loot rules. If you don't like how they play then don't group with them....problem solved

You are asking people who play by the rules....and yes, they are rules governed by players for over 15 years now...to check ahead of time with other players? No, it is the players who chose to play outside the MMO rules who need to let others know they plan to need on items not their class.

I can not believe this is even open for debate. It has ALWAYS been this way from the beginning of MMORPGs. Just because a few players chose not to follow the rules because they chose to be greedy and have no respect for their fellow players, does not mean we need to bend over for these players. You roll on something not your class, your team mates should instantly kick you, report you (even if it doesn't do any good, I say report them anyway) and then instantly be placed on ignore.

There is no justification to what that player did. Period. No matter how many people want to defend it.

Yeah, this isn't about the GREED button. I'm referencing a guardian using NEED on a medium armor set.

Then you should have mentioned that in your opening post. It comes off like you're butthurt because someone rolled and won and you couldn't take it.

You know how it works right? If you always roll Greed or Pass than anytime someone else rolls Need you automatically lose. You cannot win the roll against a Need unless you roll a Need.

 

Somewhat ironic seeing that Need is actually the greedy roll.

I know. I just do that partially because the only things I'm truly interested in are the Comms during the FP and at the end of it as well.

Unless its a supreme inquistor robe there's no armor in the game that I'm going to cry over cause I lose a draw. Anyways guardians can strip the mods out into there heavy items.

Then you won't mind if I need on something of yours for my companion that you wanted for your class...

I think people who want to need on stuff not their class should have their own server. Leave the people who play by the rules enjoy a game without everything being some kind of free-for-all every man for himself kinda crap.

People like this make a LOT of people's ignore lists. Disrespectful. Plain and simple.

Again: Sentinel gear is usable AS IS by Guardians. Guardian gear is not usable by Sentinels UNLESS they remove the mods and put them in a Medium shell. Similarly, a Guardian could remove the mods from Sentinel gear and put them in Heavy armour for the increased armour rating.

To by a little clearer as well:

- Medium armour with Cunning is Agent/Smuggler armour

- Heavy armour with Aim is Trooper/BH armour.

- Light armour with Willpower is Inquisitor/Consular armour

- Medium armour with Strength is Knight/Warrior armour (NOT Sentinel/Marauder)

- Heavy armour with Strength is Guardian armour

- Heavy armour with Aim AND Shield/Def/Absorb is Vanguard/PT armour

- Light armour with Willpower AND Shield/Def/Absorb is Shadow/Assassin armour

There are ONLY 3 types of armour (the last three) that are AC specific. The rest are base class specific. The accepted rule for Need vs. Greed is: "Is it an upgrade of my main/current spec and am I going to use it?" If yes, need. Otherwise, Greed.

OP: you should have mentioned at the start that the Guardian was the tank and not another DPS. This does shine badly upon him, but given it was while you were levelling it is also entirely possible that he was a DPS who had jumped into Soresu so he could tank the FP and that the armour was an upgrade for his main spec. Remember here as well: DPS Guardian's are more interested in Str/Power/Crit/Surge/Accuracy than they are in armour rating.

There is no reason why a DPS Guardian should be allowed to roll on medium armour with strength IF it is an upgrade for primary stats aside from possible courtesy. But by that same token, do you check if an item is more of an upgrade for someone else in your group and then concede it to them as a courtesy?

TL;DR: DPS Guardians can use it out of the box, if its an upgrade on important stats then there should be no issue.

Then you should have mentioned that in your opening post. It comes off like you're butthurt because someone rolled and won and you couldn't take it.

Didn't read the title of the topic, I take it?

" Guardians needing Medium armor when I run flashpoints using my Sentinel." Emphasis mine.

You are asking people who play by the rules....and yes, they are rules governed by players for over 15 years now...to check ahead of time with other players? No, it is the players who chose to play outside the MMO rules who need to let others know they plan to need on items not their class.

 

I can not believe this is even open for debate. It has ALWAYS been this way from the beginning of MMORPGs. Just because a few players chose not to follow the rules because they chose to be greedy and have no respect for their fellow players, does not mean we need to bend over for these players. You roll on something not your class, your team mates should instantly kick you, report you (even if it doesn't do any good, I say report them anyway) and then instantly be placed on ignore.

 

There is no justification to what that player did. Period. No matter how many people want to defend it.

There are no set rules for MMOs. You are living a fantasy is you think that. Besides you will always have new players who don't know the "rules". I see greedy players whining on the forums that they

1) Didn't get lucky on a roll

2) Didn't go over loot rules

3) Feel they are entitled to loot more so than others that spent just as much time going though an instance.

It is just a game and sometimes you won't get the stuff you want right away. Them the breaks