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Game Update 7.4.1c coming April 3 ×

Is it going to get better?


Xargas

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The question is simple, will it get better as a sorc in PvP survivability wise? Seeing how right now, mele and some range classes just eat through me like an ice cream I don't get why everyone want's a buff in damage, damage wouldn't be a problem if the protection was better, n not ability to take hits, just ability to avoid damage. Frequent readers might notice that I made a few posts before about survivability of this class, but then I started to wonder.... Will it always be like that? Or I'm just jumping into conclusions without learning to walk first?:rak_02::rak_02: Edited by Xargas
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The question is simple, will it get better as a sorc in PvP survivability wise? Seeing how right now, mele and some range classes just eat through me like an ice cream I don't get why everyone want's a buff in damage, damage wouldn't be a problem if the protection was better, n not ability to take hits, just ability to avoid damage. Frequent readers might notice that I made a few posts before about survivability of this class, but then I started to wonder.... Will it always be like that? Or I'm just jumping into conclusions without learning to walk first?:rak_02::rak_02:

 

 

in reg sorc is still better compare with pt , have self heals, bubble and phasewalk. You just need to basically hit and run and cant facetank enemies

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Lightning will be getting a slight defense buff in 5.6 via 5% DR when you have the dionized thing on you, so basically anytime you have your or another sorc's bubble on you.

But ya, as far as class balance for defense/survivabiltiy in PvP goes it's pretty crap, Juggs, PTs and Sorcs are bottom of the barrel, though we Sorcs can barrier so unless you get staggered nets it's possible to survive longer under focus fire, where as Jugg and PT Dcds can easily be bursted through, but after you use barrier you're pretty much dead, you can phase walk and heal up if you placed it correctly but you're still likely to be dead if they want you to be. Even with the nerfs to dcds Mercs will get in 5.6 they still will (probably) be far tankier than other classes, with Snipers being the closest.

With that in mind if I were in charge of class balance for dcds I would either gut all dcds for DPS specs so all of them quickly die under focus fire (which might not be a bad thing) or buff/change dcds so all of them survived longer and there weren't any classes or specs which easily outshined the others.

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The sorc/sage is perfectly fine. You are a ranged class if you get focused by 4 people you will die and should. You are supposed to kite and use LOS. You have phase walk, self heals, barrier to stop focus on you, and decent speed. A good sorc can run corners around another team and is perfectly fine in a 1v1. You should not compare it to sniper/merc dcds because those are overpowered and need to be nerfed. The class dishes out good dmg (usually get in the top 3 for dmg in both dps specs). You have teammates healers tanks etc who should be in wz with you. So even if you complain about 1v1 the game is not balanced around that. The class does just fine in nim raids and in ranked pvp. There are some really good sorcs/sage out there who understand this. You don't need a reflect, or shield stacks, or dcd resets just need to kite and los. On novare coast run around the bunker see the focus coming and plan for it.
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The sorc/sage is perfectly fine. You are a ranged class if you get focused by 4 people you will die and should. You are supposed to kite and use LOS. You have phase walk, self heals, barrier to stop focus on you, and decent speed. A good sorc can run corners around another team and is perfectly fine in a 1v1. You should not compare it to sniper/merc dcds because those are overpowered and need to be nerfed. The class dishes out good dmg (usually get in the top 3 for dmg in both dps specs). You have teammates healers tanks etc who should be in wz with you. So even if you complain about 1v1 the game is not balanced around that. The class does just fine in nim raids and in ranked pvp. There are some really good sorcs/sage out there who understand this. You don't need a reflect, or shield stacks, or dcd resets just need to kite and los. On novare coast run around the bunker see the focus coming and plan for it.

 

this.

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It takes time and dedication to enjoy sorc/sage. When you get to that point, i would say it's very worth it. There once was a time where anyone could play sorc/sage, because of h2f bubble, and now with that being gone you have to use your brain more. Madness is stronger than what most think, and it's always been my favorite spec in the game.

The only thing i feel would be helpful would be to give the AOE size of Death Field back to us. Otherwise we ight.

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You should play a dps sorc in PVP to have fun. If being competitive is important to you then you have to play another class, like a merc or a sniper who can deal more damage and survive better.

 

You have to be a very competitive player to enjoy dps sorc, and if it's important to you keep at it, because once you start handling your own with it, you will have a lot of fun. You just need to know your place.

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The class does just fine in nim raids and in ranked pvp.

I have to disagree with the last part of this quote. It may be true for healers but with respect to dps sorcs, they are perhaps marginally better than dps pts or dps jugs but are far from "perfectly fine" in a ranked setting particularly with the overabundance of mercs currently. But I do agree that in regs they are decent.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I once heard about sorcs/sages that it is one of the easier classes to learn, and one of the hardest classes to master. To say that the class it self is unviable I believe to be 100% untrue (for ranked or master mode ops). A highly skilled player that has truly mastered the class (and this goes for all classes) will be able to make it work.

 

So to answer the OP, yes it will get better. The more you play it and the more you master it the better you will be.

Edited by nabcobra
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I started really getting into PVP with my DPS sorcerer and I absolutely believed what people were saying about kiting and skill at first, but then I leveled and geared a marauder. The imbalance is insane. There has never been a point where a sorcerer has gotten away from me when I play as a marauder. The sorcerer no longer has the tools to properly kite with all the mobility at the disposal of melee classes. A key component many people gloss over is the nature of sorcerers viability. The only way you can get any real use out of them as DPS is by doing your best to remain unnoticed and running once you see someone focus you. Your damage is relatively decent, but defenses are garbage. Classes like the gunslinger or mercenary have press and forget defenses that outclass anything the sorcerer has. Many will say THEY HAVE BUBBLE WHICH MAKES THEM UNKILLABLE! What they don't understand is during that time you are immobile and you can't do damage or heal during the cast. You might as well already be dead instead of delaying the inevitable. Without an advantage with either team coordination or a severe skill difference a DPS sorc will under perform most DPS aside from PT.
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I started really getting into PVP with my DPS sorcerer and I absolutely believed what people were saying about kiting and skill at first, but then I leveled and geared a marauder. The imbalance is insane. There has never been a point where a sorcerer has gotten away from me when I play as a marauder. The sorcerer no longer has the tools to properly kite with all the mobility at the disposal of melee classes. A key component many people gloss over is the nature of sorcerers viability. The only way you can get any real use out of them as DPS is by doing your best to remain unnoticed and running once you see someone focus you. Your damage is relatively decent, but defenses are garbage. Classes like the gunslinger or mercenary have press and forget defenses that outclass anything the sorcerer has. Many will say THEY HAVE BUBBLE WHICH MAKES THEM UNKILLABLE! What they don't understand is during that time you are immobile and you can't do damage or heal during the cast. You might as well already be dead instead of delaying the inevitable. Without an advantage with either team coordination or a severe skill difference a DPS sorc will under perform most DPS aside from PT.

 

I don't play a Sorc, I never have, I never will, it's just not a playstyle that does anything for me and the whole ranged thing in this game is bassackwards IMO. I play a Carnage Marauder. That said, I don't see Sorcs as weak, but, yeah they do have some areas of concern. Thing is, as far as I am concerned, If I have to pick an ally to work with, I'll pick a sorc every time. They are versatile as all hell and bring so many things that can solve problems or aid to a strategy, I guess I should say it as in they are a really good support style class. Obviously the healers are respected and pound for pound the best healers in the game [and as well they should be as the only force user among the heal specs]. DPS sorcs bring alot of things to the table too and I find them to be excellent allies as well. Now, you really can't complain about their DPS, in the hands of a player that knows the spec well, they can do very well.

 

I agree with you about the defensive issues, in particular their bubble. If you can't move, and you can't do damage while bubbles, how exactly does this help you do anything but potentially die a few seconds after you would have had you not used the bubble? I guess you can say that it may give the sorc sometime for allies to arrive to help them, but that's a pretty piss poor design for a DCD. It use to be too powerful, but now it's too weak. - I won't bother with making the comparisons between their DCDs and those of the other ranged DPS, Mercs and Sorcs as they are better than everyone's DCDs, are woefully broken, and so over the top OP it's disgusting and, as far as I am concerned, Mercs and Snipers virtually ruin the enjoyment factor in PVP for many other players. No DPS spec should have DCDs like they do, melee or ranged. They're walking trinities. DPS Sorcs should have the best self heals out of all the DPS specs imo, but, conversly, they shouldn't have the higher bracket DPS. Either bubble needs some fine tuning to make it a more viable DCD, or they need some other reasonable ranged spec defensive, or their self heals should be buffed up some.

 

Regarding the mobility issue. I'm not sure I agree with you here. I think it's pretty well established that in terms of mobility that sorcs are among the best. No non-inquistor can keep up with Force speed, plus it has a defensive addon and a reasonable cooldown [Emersion, Surging Speed]. Phase walk is the best mobility ability in the game, also with a good add on for mobility [shifting Silhouette]. They can teleport and barriers mean nothing.

Mobility isn't only about what the sorc themselves can do for their own mobility, but that they can effect the mobility of their enemies also serves in effective kiting. Sorcs have a ton of CCs, they can spec into extra slows [lighting is the king of slows] even as a Marauder, when I'm fighting a skilled Lighting Sorc, they can keep me slowed virtually indefinitely. You need to spec into that of course, and that's a personal decision, but a sorc can kite crazy good if they choose their utilities with that in mind and make use of the slow effects of some of their attacks. [Fury Marauders are a separate issue, as they alone have anti-cc passives which changes the equation in their case] I don't see mobility as a problem for sorcs, I see face tanking as a problem for sorcs.

 

If a sorc tries to go blow for blow with a melee, he's done for. But if a Sorc is going blow for blow with a melee, simply put, he's doing it wrong. They need to kite, or they will die. The only reason Mercs and Snipers can get away with it as fellow ranged DPS, is that their DCDs/Heals are obscenely OP.

 

In the not so long ago past [4.0] we have seen that Sorcs can be easily made an OP class, so I think perhaps the devs are being a bit overly cautious given the state of Mercs and Sorcs and not wanting to add another ranged class to the OP list. It would be game breaking and make it fully a Ranged game [which in PVP it pretty much already is, the bads being the only gapstop on that].

 

Read the utility choices very closely with kiting in mind and than consider trying out a spread that doesn't compromise the "must haves" too much but trims from "don't need but like" ones. You become more mobile by making your enemies less mobile than you are, which makes kiting easier.

 

A well played Sorc is the best ally you could ever have. They may not have the strongest DPS or the best DCDs, but they got some really good other little thingies than no one else has and can be a life saver. I may be wrong, but, I think they were kinda intended to be a support class. Sure they could use a tweak or two [bubble comes to mind =p and self heals] , but they are hardly weak.

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I don't play a Sorc, I never have, I never will, it's just not a playstyle that does anything for me and the whole ranged thing in this game is bassackwards IMO. I play a Carnage Marauder. That said, I don't see Sorcs as weak, but, yeah they do have some areas of concern. Thing is, as far as I am concerned, If I have to pick an ally to work with, I'll pick a sorc every time. They are versatile as all hell and bring so many things that can solve problems or aid to a strategy, I guess I should say it as in they are a really good support style class. Obviously the healers are respected and pound for pound the best healers in the game [and as well they should be as the only force user among the heal specs]. DPS sorcs bring alot of things to the table too and I find them to be excellent allies as well. Now, you really can't complain about their DPS, in the hands of a player that knows the spec well, they can do very well.

 

I agree with you about the defensive issues, in particular their bubble. If you can't move, and you can't do damage while bubbles, how exactly does this help you do anything but potentially die a few seconds after you would have had you not used the bubble? I guess you can say that it may give the sorc sometime for allies to arrive to help them, but that's a pretty piss poor design for a DCD. It use to be too powerful, but now it's too weak. - I won't bother with making the comparisons between their DCDs and those of the other ranged DPS, Mercs and Sorcs as they are better than everyone's DCDs, are woefully broken, and so over the top OP it's disgusting and, as far as I am concerned, Mercs and Snipers virtually ruin the enjoyment factor in PVP for many other players. No DPS spec should have DCDs like they do, melee or ranged. They're walking trinities. DPS Sorcs should have the best self heals out of all the DPS specs imo, but, conversly, they shouldn't have the higher bracket DPS. Either bubble needs some fine tuning to make it a more viable DCD, or they need some other reasonable ranged spec defensive, or their self heals should be buffed up some.

 

Regarding the mobility issue. I'm not sure I agree with you here. I think it's pretty well established that in terms of mobility that sorcs are among the best. No non-inquistor can keep up with Force speed, plus it has a defensive addon and a reasonable cooldown [Emersion, Surging Speed]. Phase walk is the best mobility ability in the game, also with a good add on for mobility [shifting Silhouette]. They can teleport and barriers mean nothing.

Mobility isn't only about what the sorc themselves can do for their own mobility, but that they can effect the mobility of their enemies also serves in effective kiting. Sorcs have a ton of CCs, they can spec into extra slows [lighting is the king of slows] even as a Marauder, when I'm fighting a skilled Lighting Sorc, they can keep me slowed virtually indefinitely. You need to spec into that of course, and that's a personal decision, but a sorc can kite crazy good if they choose their utilities with that in mind and make use of the slow effects of some of their attacks. [Fury Marauders are a separate issue, as they alone have anti-cc passives which changes the equation in their case] I don't see mobility as a problem for sorcs, I see face tanking as a problem for sorcs.

 

If a sorc tries to go blow for blow with a melee, he's done for. But if a Sorc is going blow for blow with a melee, simply put, he's doing it wrong. They need to kite, or they will die. The only reason Mercs and Snipers can get away with it as fellow ranged DPS, is that their DCDs/Heals are obscenely OP.

 

In the not so long ago past [4.0] we have seen that Sorcs can be easily made an OP class, so I think perhaps the devs are being a bit overly cautious given the state of Mercs and Sorcs and not wanting to add another ranged class to the OP list. It would be game breaking and make it fully a Ranged game [which in PVP it pretty much already is, the bads being the only gapstop on that].

 

Read the utility choices very closely with kiting in mind and than consider trying out a spread that doesn't compromise the "must haves" too much but trims from "don't need but like" ones. You become more mobile by making your enemies less mobile than you are, which makes kiting easier.

 

A well played Sorc is the best ally you could ever have. They may not have the strongest DPS or the best DCDs, but they got some really good other little thingies than no one else has and can be a life saver. I may be wrong, but, I think they were kinda intended to be a support class. Sure they could use a tweak or two [bubble comes to mind =p and self heals] , but they are hardly weak.

 

I just want to say thank you for your response! I hardly look at these forums because the posts rarely change (or at least the ones I look at). I absolutely agree that sorcerers are versatile and they have good damage. If they just tweaked the class it would operate much better in PVP without making it insane. Luckily they are already slowly giving Sorcerers better defensive options just looking at the last patch. One thing I would like to see them do with Madness in future patches is shift some of the damage toward the dots. That would help solve the issues with being unable to pump out damage while running and being unable to cast force lightning because of how unsafe it is. They are never going to allow sorcerers to cast lightning while moving when it has a slow attached to it, but I do see them moving the damage numbers around so that the dots you apply end up being a larger percentage of the overall damage done.

Edited by Kiervilon
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I started really getting into PVP with my DPS sorcerer and I absolutely believed what people were saying about kiting and skill at first, but then I leveled and geared a marauder. The imbalance is insane. There has never been a point where a sorcerer has gotten away from me when I play as a marauder. The sorcerer no longer has the tools to properly kite with all the mobility at the disposal of melee classes. A key component many people gloss over is the nature of sorcerers viability. The only way you can get any real use out of them as DPS is by doing your best to remain unnoticed and running once you see someone focus you. Your damage is relatively decent, but defenses are garbage. Classes like the gunslinger or mercenary have press and forget defenses that outclass anything the sorcerer has. Many will say THEY HAVE BUBBLE WHICH MAKES THEM UNKILLABLE! What they don't understand is during that time you are immobile and you can't do damage or heal during the cast. You might as well already be dead instead of delaying the inevitable. Without an advantage with either team coordination or a severe skill difference a DPS sorc will under perform most DPS aside from PT.

 

thats cause mara have been a favored broken class since launch. they have never been weak, plus they got million dcds.

 

3 dps specs to choose from.... if 1 gets nerfed 2 others remain OP

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thats cause mara have been a favored broken class since launch. they have never been weak, plus they got million dcds.

 

3 dps specs to choose from.... if 1 gets nerfed 2 others remain OP

 

If I recall correctly there was a period in time where people were saying marauders were garbage and sorcerers where OP. The pendulum swings back and forth when it comes to balance. I just wish they would have more balance and fix patches in between the content updates. Then again I come from MOBAS where balance is constantly being shifted.

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