I'm new to the BH game and just wondering what some of the more seasoned players feel is the better DPS tree?

Or, are they pretty balanced; Pros and Cons?

They're both good. Adv Proto blooms a hell of a lot later though since the rotation seems to have a pretty heavy reliance on how cheap Immolate is and it making Rocket Punch free.

Adv Proto feels a lot more Powertech. Retractable Blade feels really nice and its core abilities are all 10m or closer.

I feel Pyro is the better DPS however, and I also think Pyro is more fun to play. Adv Proto has a fairly rigid rotation whereas Pyrotech has a lot of its damage based off of a chaotic proc based priority system. Pyro has a couple of 30m attacks as well which can help mitigate a DPS Powertech's lack of Jet Charge in certain situations.

They're both good, and use a fairly similar core of attacks. Pick your poison really.

Pretty much agree with the above.

I will say i prefer Adv Prototype in regards to heat venting as it gives a talent to passively vent 8 heat every 6 secs while Pyro heat venting is dependant on RNG.....which i dont like and quickly becomes awkward when Railshot isnt proccing.

I havent tested either build extensively at 50 yet, since I'm the main tank for my guild and spend most of my time shieldtech specced, but here's my assessment:

Advanced Prototype DPS builds are focused heavily around burst damage. You have reliable heat generation, but your threat generation as a damage dealer is going to be spiky and may cause issues if your tank isnt on the ball. AP also seems to rely heavily on flame burst spam, which is far from efficient as far as heat per damage ratio goes. In my opinion, AP builds are better suited to pvp where that kind of burst is needed.

Pyrotech DPS builds focus primarily on two things: Damage over time effects, and greatly enhanced rail shots for the heavy hitting. In most MMORPGs, DoT builds are extremely efficient for endgame PvE DPS; they generate steady damage that doesnt fluxuate a lot, so you dont have many issues with threat, and you can continue dishing out a steady amount of damage when you're not actively attacking the target (for encounters that require a lot of movement or other strategy).

Pyrotech also utilizes elemental damage to a seemingly greater degree than Advanced Prototypes, meaning it will most likely be more effective against heavy armor bosses and opponents, though there's always the possibility of enemies at endgame which have high elemental resistances.

I havent tested either build extensively at 50 yet, since I'm the main tank for my guild and spend most of my time shieldtech specced, but here's my assessment:

 

Advanced Prototype DPS builds are focused heavily around burst damage. You have reliable heat generation, but your threat generation as a damage dealer is going to be spiky and may cause issues if your tank isnt on the ball. AP also seems to rely heavily on flame burst spam, which is far from efficient as far as heat per damage ratio goes. In my opinion, AP builds are better suited to pvp where that kind of burst is needed.

 

Pyrotech DPS builds focus primarily on two things: Damage over time effects, and greatly enhanced rail shots for the heavy hitting. In most MMORPGs, DoT builds are extremely efficient for endgame PvE DPS; they generate steady damage that doesnt fluxuate a lot, so you dont have many issues with threat, and you can continue dishing out a steady amount of damage when you're not actively attacking the target (for encounters that require a lot of movement or other strategy).

 

Pyrotech also utilizes elemental damage to a seemingly greater degree than Advanced Prototypes, meaning it will most likely be more effective against heavy armor bosses and opponents, though there's always the possibility of enemies at endgame which have high elemental resistances.

You sir, have no idea what your on about.

AP is a burst spec? are u joking... In comparative terms it has more abilities that hit for less. Whereas Pyro has Rail shots which hit for extreme amounts, and can have their CD reset, while at the same time combining damage with a thermal detonator.

THAT is burst.

You sir, have no idea what your on about.

 

AP is a burst spec? are u joking... In comparative terms it has more abilities that hit for less. Whereas Pyro has Rail shots which hit for extreme amounts, and can have their CD reset, while at the same time combining damage with a thermal detonator.

 

THAT is burst.

No, Burst is having your Immolate/Rocketpunch/Flameburst get a 30% crit damage bonus...

I've played the Pyro and the AP specs a lot, AP has FAR FAR more burst..

Immolate/Rocketpunch/Railshot/Flameburst Spam simply kills... everything..

What Pyro does have going for it is the ability to Hybrid it out with Shield tech and pick up Jet Charge.

If you go up AP line, you're going 31 points cause Immolate is simply the best ability the line has.

I've tried AP until maybe 35 then switched to pyro. Mostly soloing and pvp. I kill mobs much faster with pyro and usually don't have as much heat downtime. But when you don't proc free rail shot for a while, pyro can be pretty gimped. Pvp is much nicer with pyro cause it feels like I have much more burst and it's more mobile.

Edit: Also, I originally avoided pyro cause I thought of it as the "dot spec" and dot-based specs tend to be great for bosses but slow for leveling. It's really not the case at all.

I havent tested either build extensively at 50 yet, since I'm the main tank for my guild and spend most of my time shieldtech specced, but here's my assessment:

 

Advanced Prototype DPS builds are focused heavily around burst damage. You have reliable heat generation, but your threat generation as a damage dealer is going to be spiky and may cause issues if your tank isnt on the ball. AP also seems to rely heavily on flame burst spam, which is far from efficient as far as heat per damage ratio goes. In my opinion, AP builds are better suited to pvp where that kind of burst is needed.

 

Pyrotech DPS builds focus primarily on two things: Damage over time effects, and greatly enhanced rail shots for the heavy hitting. In most MMORPGs, DoT builds are extremely efficient for endgame PvE DPS; they generate steady damage that doesnt fluxuate a lot, so you dont have many issues with threat, and you can continue dishing out a steady amount of damage when you're not actively attacking the target (for encounters that require a lot of movement or other strategy).

 

Pyrotech also utilizes elemental damage to a seemingly greater degree than Advanced Prototypes, meaning it will most likely be more effective against heavy armor bosses and opponents, though there's always the possibility of enemies at endgame which have high elemental resistances.

Eh hit n miss on some points. Pyro only really has the one more dot with CGC over the other specs so its not really a dot based spec, in fact with the talents retractable blade probably does more damage than both CGC and incendiary missile (at least above 30%, these 2 are increased below 30% for pyro). Both get 30% critical damage for their main attacks via talents.

If anything pyro is a more pvp based spec due to adding the range and the ability to burst with TD and 90% pen rail shots however its proc based nature for heat management can make it unreliable at times for consistent pve damage.

I see AP performing better and better at higher gear levels due to its low heat cost, constant heat venting rate boost and the passive 11% increase to internal and elemental it gets via HEGC and talents, however i haven't played around with it much due to it being terrible before 40 and access to immolate which is really a cornerstone of the build.

I would like to throw a couple of other things into the mix here:

1) AP is more AoE dps than pyro because of the 50% boost to flame thrower which is very powerful.

2) There is a hybrid AP/PT spec that aims to get the critical rail shot proc as well as the CD reset.

In short nobody will really know what does better DPS until we have a combat log and parses to test so it will really be down to feel and your personal play style.

My feeling is that AP will be better for multiple target dps and single target close range dps, while pyro will be better at highly mobile targets (pvp) and ranged damage.

I have tested both of them extensively and let me tell everybody here - AP needs DRASTIC reworking if it ever wants to come close to Pyrotech's damage, both in PvE and in PvP.

I've done HMs and Operations as both specs. AP is such ridiculously less damage than Pyrotech that I really don't even know what Bioware was thinking in designing this tree. The hardest-hitting part about it is supposed to be +50% Flame Throwers, but those are one step below impossible to land in PvP due to everybody breaking stuns or having a resilience bar and just juking out of your FT damage. In PvE it's not very easy to land either, believe it or not. Do you know how often you're required to move to avoid damage, or get knockbacked/stunned, in Hard Modes? They interrupt the Flame Thrower you carefully built up all the time, removing the +50% damage buff and resetting the CD. Other than that +50% FT, the damage is easily sustainable but very unremarkable.

Pyrotech, on the other hand, pulls agro from (very good) tanks *constantly* in Operations due to it's raw damage. And in PvP? Well look for yourself - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/screenshot2012010323065.jpg/

That's me with 459k damage in a PvP match last night (as Pyrotech). Advanced Prototype will never, ever come close to that as it is right now. This isn't so much a pro-Pyrotech post as it is a "What the F*** were you thinking when you made the AP tree, Bioware? You've given us only 2 viable specs at 50. GG, you fail" post.

I have tested both of them extensively and let me tell everybody here - AP needs DRASTIC reworking if it ever wants to come close to Pyrotech's damage, both in PvE and in PvP.

 

I've done HMs and Operations as both specs. AP is such ridiculously less damage than Pyrotech that I really don't even know what Bioware was thinking in designing this tree. The hardest-hitting part about it is supposed to be +50% Flame Throwers, but those are one step below impossible to land in PvP due to everybody breaking stuns or having a resilience bar and just juking out of your FT damage. In PvE it's not very easy to land either, believe it or not. Do you know how often you're required to move to avoid damage, or get knockbacked/stunned, in Hard Modes? They interrupt the Flame Thrower you carefully built up all the time, removing the +50% damage buff and resetting the CD. Other than that +50% FT, the damage is easily sustainable but very unremarkable.

 

Pyrotech, on the other hand, pulls agro from (very good) tanks *constantly* in Operations due to it's raw damage. And in PvP? Well look for yourself - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/screenshot2012010323065.jpg/

 

That's me with 459k damage in a PvP match last night (as Pyrotech). Advanced Prototype will never, ever come close to that as it is right now. This isn't so much a pro-Pyrotech post as it is a "What the F*** were you thinking when you made the AP tree, Bioware? You've given us only 2 viable specs at 50. GG, you fail" post.

I've been leveling in ST for Heroics and Flashpoints, but am very intererested in trying out Pyro for PvP later on. Since my Powertech is fairly new, I don't know the builds or skills as well as I would like. Would you consider posting a link to your build?

I have tested both of them extensively and let me tell everybody here - AP needs DRASTIC reworking if it ever wants to come close to Pyrotech's damage, both in PvE and in PvP.

 

I've done HMs and Operations as both specs. AP is such ridiculously less damage than Pyrotech that I really don't even know what Bioware was thinking in designing this tree. The hardest-hitting part about it is supposed to be +50% Flame Throwers, but those are one step below impossible to land in PvP due to everybody breaking stuns or having a resilience bar and just juking out of your FT damage. In PvE it's not very easy to land either, believe it or not. Do you know how often you're required to move to avoid damage, or get knockbacked/stunned, in Hard Modes? They interrupt the Flame Thrower you carefully built up all the time, removing the +50% damage buff and resetting the CD. Other than that +50% FT, the damage is easily sustainable but very unremarkable.

 

Pyrotech, on the other hand, pulls agro from (very good) tanks *constantly* in Operations due to it's raw damage. And in PvP? Well look for yourself - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/screenshot2012010323065.jpg/

 

That's me with 459k damage in a PvP match last night (as Pyrotech). Advanced Prototype will never, ever come close to that as it is right now. This isn't so much a pro-Pyrotech post as it is a "What the F*** were you thinking when you made the AP tree, Bioware? You've given us only 2 viable specs at 50. GG, you fail" post.

This has been my experience too. I mostly tank (with ST/Pyro so I'm used to watching for Rail Shot procs), but occasionally I'll go along to DPS for a Juggernaut friend of mine.

I've tried both specs, and while Adv Proto has a rotation that is stable enough you could practically be asleep at the wheel, the damage output isn't even close. Pyro does a ridiculous amount of DPS.

At a glance Pyro looks very heavily reliant on RNG, but even with the worst of luck Pyro competes with Adv Proto. With good luck you'll break your tank's Taunt key.

I'm unconvinced that TD is really necessary for the meat of your rotation on bossfights, but it cleans up trash and adds so efficiently I don't think I'd try a build without it (that isn't even mentioning PvP where TD is crown king of Burst Damage). The meat of the Pyro tree does so much more damage than anything in Adv Proto that the trees aren't even close.

Hell, I'd sooner DPS a Hard Mode as ST/Pyro than I would as Adv Proto ever again. When the Pyro slot machine pays out, it pays out that much. The only reason I would ever spec Adv Proto ever again is if I was diagnosed with horrible motion sickness and needed to PvP without Jet Charge; the 20% damage reduction while stunned is the only thing going for Adv Proto in any environment over the other two specs and hybrids thereof.

Which dps spec would be better for leveling? My power tech is 21 right now and I was under the impression that AP was the way to go but this thread is making me feel otherwise. Is pyro a close range spec like AP?

Yes? Maybe?

Pyrotech is as reliant on short range as Adv Proto to do its core rotation.

As a bonus, Pyro gets Thermal Detonator and Incin Missile (and therefore Rail Shot) which are available at 30m. This offers the spec more flexibility in a game with a moronic number of knockbacks and snares.

Which dps spec would be better for leveling? My power tech is 21 right now and I was under the impression that AP was the way to go but this thread is making me feel otherwise. Is pyro a close range spec like AP?

I prefer pyro for leveling, no contest.

I prefer pyro for leveling, no contest.

Definitely. All the trees are barely noticeable below 20-25 anyway. Adv Proto blooms late, and doesn't really do so very impressively.

Hell, I would bet that ST is a better leveling spec with better damage from 25 - 40 than Adv Proto.

I am still torn on going ST/Pyro with Ion up over the CGC full 31 in Pyro spec. I can't see not having the critical bonuses and the damage increases when the guy is under 30% health. Plus, the snare is so important in my game play. I'll eventually try it but bah!

All I'm concluding is I won't touch AP any time soon due to the fact that it doesn't have the durability of ST and the burst of pyro. It's a middle land somewhere that offers some mobility but not enough to gimp your durability or power.

Hell, I'd sooner DPS a Hard Mode as ST/Pyro than I would as Adv Proto ever again. When the Pyro slot machine pays out, it pays out that much. The only reason I would ever spec Adv Proto ever again is if I was diagnosed with horrible motion sickness and needed to PvP without Jet Charge; the 20% damage reduction while stunned is the only thing going for Adv Proto in any environment over the other two specs and hybrids thereof.

Believe it or not I tested 31/8/2 ST build in DPS gear and did comparable damage to an AP. In my DPS gear as ST, RP crits for about 3k, and crits nearly all the time. The ICG Proc crits for about 300ish, and if I'm being attacked it basically means I'm using a 3.3k Rocket Punch every 4.5 seconds. The difference bwteen AP/ST then? You have infinitely more survivability as ST - even in dps gear but still using a shield - than you do as AP, while losing no damage. Getting a RP crit for over 3k, having it immediately reset and doing it again for nearly 7k damage in 1.5 seconds is glorious and burst that AP cant compete with.

When I was AP I didn't spec into the -20% damage while stunned for one reason - 90% of the time I'm stunned I can just break out of it, and the few times I'm being CCd so heavily that I can't break out of a stun, it usually means I'm getting trained by 4+ people and will die even if I was taking -50% damage, much less -20%.

AP is just such a useless tree overall. The most powerful ability of the spec (+50% FT damage) is almost never used except on trash in PvE fights, certainly almost never in PvP, despite the fact that AP was an obvious attempt at making a PvP build. For shame Bioware.

Believe it or not I tested 31/8/2 ST build in DPS gear and did comparable damage to an AP. In my DPS gear as ST, RP crits for about 3k, and crits nearly all the time. The ICG Proc crits for about 300ish, and if I'm being attacked it basically means I'm using a 3.3k Rocket Punch every 4.5 seconds. The difference bwteen AP/ST then? You have infinitely more survivability as ST - even in dps gear but still using a shield - than you do as AP, while losing no damage. Getting a RP crit for over 3k, having it immediately reset and doing it again for nearly 7k damage in 1.5 seconds is glorious and burst that AP cant compete with.

 

When I was AP I didn't spec into the -20% damage while stunned for one reason - 90% of the time I'm stunned I can just break out of it, and the few times I'm being CCd so heavily that I can't break out of a stun, it usually means I'm getting trained by 4+ people and will die even if I was taking -50% damage, much less -20%.

AP is just such a useless tree overall. The most powerful ability of the spec (+50% FT damage) is almost never used except on trash in PvE fights, certainly almost never in PvP, despite the fact that AP was an obvious attempt at making a PvP build. For shame Bioware.

The Part I put in Bold is all you need to know about this poster to no longer listen to him.

Also, if you can't use Flamethrower in PvP, you're doing it wrong...

Also, if you can't use Flamethrower in PvP, you're doing it wrong...

The part I put in bold is all you need to read to understand why this person has never PvP'd successfully as a bounty hunter and likely has no idea how PvP works at all in this game. I might be wrong though. This is just my subjective opinion based off this person talking like they have no idea how PvP works at all in this game.

It might all be an elaborate ruse. Maybe he'd like to post a SS of his best game to let us all know he has any idea what he's talking about?

inb4 he can't for w/e his excuse is.

Not picking up damage reduction and not using flame is a big PVP AP-spec fail IMHO

Grapple + (stun) + flame = profit

Not picking up damage reduction and not using flame is a big PVP AP-spec fail IMHO

 

Grapple + (stun) + flame = profit

Actually the "big AP fail" is requiring you to use Flame Thrower so you can half the damage and none of the burst that Pyro has.

Pyro is a significantly better spec in almost all regards right now. Don't take it like some personal insult or affront to your Retractable Blading manhood or anything, I'm just saying it needs some serious fixes to compete.

Not picking up damage reduction and not using flame is a big PVP AP-spec fail IMHO

 

Grapple + (stun) + flame = profit

First of all, the combo you just listed omits the prerequisite five Flame Bursts required to use a +50% Flame Thrower, which is the only time an AP should ever ever be using it. You have demonstrated that you have never PvPd as a 50 AP PT =/

Second, the damage reduction of SA is dependent on being stunned, which is the *only* kind of CC you should be saving your Determination for, which means the amount of time any BH with an IQ above room temperature is stunned is very low in any given PvP match. The very few times you are stunned and can't break out of it, the chances that a -20% damage during those 4 or less seconds saving your life is more rare still.

Third, there's a reason you don't see many level 50 BHs using Flame Throw in PvP outside of extremely situational circumstances like keeping bombs off a door. Between how easy it is to interrupt, how easy it is to avoid, how bad the ticking mechanics of the skill work, and the requirement of you being immobile while channeling all factor into it being one of the least useful pvp-skills a BH has at level 50.