I was having a discussion with some people on Twitch last night and this comment came up. Mercs offer nothing to the team. Now im not sure i agree with this but it did give me pause to think.

 

Some of the comments were...

We dont off heal effectively. Well, thats true, our heals are weaker by comparison and too expensive to spam since we cant even heal ourselves to full most of the time before heat resources kick in.

We dont guard. True, we have no such mechanism .

We dont offer buffs. Not fully true of course we have one but its less effective than what others bring.

 

So what do we do... well the obvious answer is DPS. Similar to snipers/gunslingers. Now with that in mind is our damage high enough to justify it? One could easily argue that our damage is too low if thats all we bring to the table for both classes and that we should do more. If Skank Tanks are doing hits nearly as big as ours, something is very wrong.

 

I'm not suggesting any of this is an absolute or 100% fact, i just thought it made for interesting discussion.

 

Thoughts?

Electronet just before it's time the Sorc/Sage to Bubble. Or keeping operatives from rolling away, etc... Basically good for helping the team to take out someone that is focused.

 

The pushback has it's uses.

 

one more class with Stealth Scan

 

those are out of the top of my head, there are others

 

I guess the one unique thing is the Electronet

Edited March 4, 2016 by Kaedusz

The fact arsenal merc has a 70% snare on blazing bolts is something to be mentioned. 70% snare on anyone can be helpful in locking them down so melee can kill them, to stop them from kiting, etc. It also hurts.

 

Net is the other useful facet to mercs that no one else has.

 

Their biggest asset (for arsenal merc) is their burst and total damage output on single targets. Not many classes can compete regarding their single target damage.

 

I am not saying mercs are the best dps and offer the most for a team, but they do have some merit.

To be clear i wasnt asking for examples. Im an experienced Merc and you are of course right on your points. I just found it intriguing that this was the predominant view of those in the chat at the time and wondered what other Mercs/Mandos thought of the conversation. .

mercs can easily bring as much dps as a sniper, but they suffer from the same problem: they don't have a leave me alone button. with the way the game is, i don't think they will ever be viable in ranked yolos without one and they will suffer against a good team in regs.

What Mercs are able to bring would be damage, few offheals, net and taking the focus leaving his teammates free to do what they want.

Do not play 1 class. Edited March 5, 2016 by helpmewin

I was having a discussion with some people on Twitch last night and this comment came up. Mercs offer nothing to the team. Now im not sure i agree with this but it did give me pause to think.

 

Some of the comments were...

We dont off heal effectively. Well, thats true, our heals are weaker by comparison and too expensive to spam since we cant even heal ourselves to full most of the time before heat resources kick in.

We dont guard. True, we have no such mechanism .

We dont offer buffs. Not fully true of course we have one but its less effective than what others bring.

 

So what do we do... well the obvious answer is DPS. Similar to snipers/gunslingers. Now with that in mind is our damage high enough to justify it? One could easily argue that our damage is too low if thats all we bring to the table for both classes and that we should do more. If Skank Tanks are doing hits nearly as big as ours, something is very wrong.

 

I'm not suggesting any of this is an absolute or 100% fact, i just thought it made for interesting discussion.

 

Thoughts?

 

More? 20k+ autocrit HSM +15k rail shot and you want more? Snipers MM hit 20k too as pure dps class, but the hit is white damage and easily can be mitigated by most classes. Boltstorm hits harder than penetrating rounds too. Dps geared tanks are op, but they don't hit nearly as hard as merc. Also you have 10% alactily buff for regs, offheals, aoe knockback and electro net which is very powerful if used properly.

Mercs defenses should be redesigned, but utility is fine and single target damage is arguably the best in the game atm.

Edited March 5, 2016 by DerSchneider

My two favorite classes are assault specialist commando and sharpshooter gunslinger. I have never parsed so I don't know exactly how much DPS each one pumps out. I'm pretty sure it is my gunslinger but I am working on improving my commando. People call gunslingers "turrets" because we have to stay in place to use most of our abilities. Up side of that is that I can't be leaped to or yanked. Awesome. However, I have to move to get out of the way of mechanics and therefore it is a loss in DPS. Not the case with my commando. My mobility is amazing. I can use almost all of my abilities while moving so the DPS is continuous for the most part. I love when an enemy is coming after me and I just throw out hit after hit while backing up or moving around the enemy. And a large percentage of those abilities are instant.

 

I have also seen people write that assault specialist commandos are crap. Personally, I find them a lot of fun. IMO, it is the player that makes or breaks a class. Just a matter of how much time and energy one is willing to invest. No such thing as "not viable" in my book.

What Mercs are able to bring would be damage, few offheals, net and taking the focus leaving his teammates free to do what they want.

 

so, the guy with the worst defensive utils is supposed to eat the damage? kinda nonsensical dont you think?

Do not play 1 class.

i play all classes, my main is what i enjoy the most, why should i be forced to play something i dont like? We arent all fotm jumpers... plus it had nothing to do with the topic so... meh

More? 20k+ autocrit HSM +15k rail shot and you want more? Snipers MM hit 20k too as pure dps class, but the hit is white damage and easily can be mitigated by most classes. Boltstorm hits harder than penetrating rounds too. Dps geared tanks are op, but they don't hit nearly as hard as merc. Also you have 10% alactily buff for regs, offheals, aoe knockback and electro net which is very powerful if used properly.

Mercs defenses should be redesigned, but utility is fine and single target damage is arguably the best in the game atm.

 

You do realize that much of what you mention here isnt available immediately and requires ramp up? Neither heatseeker or rail shot hit their hardest until you have the sunder and tracer lock debuff stacks on the target, and thats not including supercharged gas. This means neither skill can hit to its max potential till you have 2 or 3 TM hits on target, you do realize this, right?

 

Just because they CAN hit that hard it does not mean they do at all times. Lets not exaggerates shall we? Besides, you mention 15K rails when freaking immortal juggs in tank or skank tank specs are hitting nearly that hard with 40% mitigation.

 

Please stop spreading misinformation and half truths. Besides i never said we had a damage issue, nor was that what was inferred in the conversation, only that this is all we bring and compared to what other classes can bring in addition to damage they simple didnt feel we had merit.

so, the guy with the worst defensive utils is supposed to eat the damage? kinda nonsensical dont you think?

 

I agree. However the reality is we get focused in both unranked and rank and that's why it leads to this, regardless of how bad our defensives are.

I agree. However the reality is we get focused in both unranked and rank and that's why it leads to this, regardless of how bad our defensives are.

 

Granted but thats self fulfilling... we got focused largely because of our defensive woes... if this was not the case would we still be focused as badly? I think not.

Sure we would still be in the conversation due to damage potential, but i think other targets would take a much higher priority if our death wasnt a virtual guarantee. As it stands if there is a merc on the map, hes marked.

You do realize that much of what you mention here isnt available immediately and requires ramp up? Neither heatseeker or rail shot hit their hardest until you have the sunder and tracer lock debuff stacks on the target, and thats not including supercharged gas. This means neither skill can hit to its max potential till you have 2 or 3 TM hits on target, you do realize this, right?

 

Just because they CAN hit that hard it does not mean they do at all times. Lets not exaggerates shall we? Besides, you mention 15K rails when freaking immortal juggs in tank or skank tank specs are hitting nearly that hard with 40% mitigation.

 

Please stop spreading misinformation and half truths. Besides i never said we had a damage issue, nor was that what was inferred in the conversation, only that this is all we bring and compared to what other classes can bring in addition to damage they simple didnt feel we had merit.

 

You do realise that most dps specs need a ramp up? Snipers ambush needs a ramp up. Virulence needs to waste 3 globals before start actually doing damage. Engineering the same. Marauder only in fury has instant burst. They provide additional team utility, because they are pure dps classes.

What team utility does assassin provide besides sap? Pt dps besides taunt? Ops if he doesn't want to sacrifice his damage?

And who said jugg tanks ALWAYS hit for 15k? Crushing blow doesn't autocrit. Tanks are OP, but not only jugg.

Yesterday I died because of 8k cascading debris hit. It's more than 30K SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE IN 1 ABILITY (with force potency).

What about PT tank doing 2,5k dps in arenas with passive mitigation that he doesn't even have to worry about cooldowns timing.

Edited March 9, 2016 by DerSchneider

While you continue to list what "other classes bring"

 

The most important thing any class can bring to a fight is to not be a pushover. Being able to carry their own weight.

 

This typically requires some combo of damage, survivability and cheese.

 

Mercs are second rate because they need support to be equal to many other classes. What they offer compared to a first rate class is vulnerability.

While you continue to list what "other classes bring"

 

The most important thing any class can bring to a fight is to not be a pushover. Being able to carry their own weight.

 

This typically requires some combo of damage, survivability and cheese.

 

Mercs are second rate because they need support to be equal to many other classes. What they offer compared to a first rate class is vulnerability.

 

By your logic concealment operative is the most OP spec in history of SWTOR.

By your logic concealment operative is the most OP spec in history of SWTOR.

This comment made me think of "Teams of stunlocking operatives!!!!!"

 

/nostalgia

By your logic concealment operative is the most OP spec in history of SWTOR.

 

No, my post does not cover your fetish of trying to mention operatives.

 

Have the confidence to make your own post with your own opinions.

Mercs are trash because no class in the game is as reliant on their teammates to survive more then 10 seconds in an arena. The suggestion that mercs are fine but just require a higher skill cap is rubbish, they require a higher skill cap of teamwork. In essence they are class which needs to be babysat in an arena to perform and/or have an opponent team which is made up of a favourable composition. Put simply your success in an arena as a merc is beyond your control.

You do realise that most dps specs need a ramp up? Snipers ambush needs a ramp up. Virulence needs to waste 3 globals before start actually doing damage. Engineering the same. Marauder only in fury has instant burst. They provide additional team utility, because they are pure dps classes.

What team utility does assassin provide besides sap? Pt dps besides taunt? Ops if he doesn't want to sacrifice his damage?

And who said jugg tanks ALWAYS hit for 15k? Crushing blow doesn't autocrit. Tanks are OP, but not only jugg.

Yesterday I died because of 8k cascading debris hit. It's more than 30K SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE IN 1 ABILITY (with force potency).

What about PT tank doing 2,5k dps in arenas with passive mitigation that he doesn't even have to worry about cooldowns timing.

 

Never said otherwise, you are right on all points, I'm just saying dont quote top end numbers as though they are baseline.

Mercs are trash because no class in the game is as reliant on their teammates to survive more then 10 seconds in an arena. The suggestion that mercs are fine but just require a higher skill cap is rubbish, they require a higher skill cap of teamwork. In essence they are class which needs to be babysat in an arena to perform and/or have an opponent team which is made up of a favourable composition. Put simply your success in an arena as a merc is beyond your control.

 

This is actually a very well put statement.

Mercs are trash because no class in the game is as reliant on their teammates to survive more then 10 seconds in an arena. The suggestion that mercs are fine but just require a higher skill cap is rubbish, they require a higher skill cap of teamwork. In essence they are class which needs to be babysat in an arena to perform and/or have an opponent team which is made up of a favourable composition. Put simply your success in an arena as a merc is beyond your control.

 

Yeah, I have to agree with this too.

 

No where is it more evident than when you are on your merc dps, and you get placed on a 4v4 against a premade, and your team is not.

 

This fight comes down to your own ability merged with your teams, and when your team is weak and/or uncoordinated you really get to experience the frailty of the merc.

 

On other classes you can actually still manage some survival and you might even put up fair numbers.

 

On the merc, you WILL get focused first, and you WILL die in mere seconds putting out no damage because you go into full survival mode.

 

Full survival mode for the merc dps is kite away, use defensives, use weak self heals, then face the inevitable which is to die really, really fast.

 

It's the most frustrating class to play in this kind of match for me, bar none. I imagine snipers probably also face this, alas I don't play the class to compare though.

 

Merc puts out nice damage, but they cannot defend themselves effectively and continue to put out damage which is why they are easy to shutdown when they have weak support.

Mercs are trash because no class in the game is as reliant on their teammates to survive more then 10 seconds in an arena. The suggestion that mercs are fine but just require a higher skill cap is rubbish, they require a higher skill cap of teamwork. In essence they are class which needs to be babysat in an arena to perform and/or have an opponent team which is made up of a favourable composition. Put simply your success in an arena as a merc is beyond your control.

Extremely well phrased. This is it in a nutshell.

One thing kinda struck me as I was actually thinking about this topic myself a few days ago. Gunnery Commandos have niice burst, yet don't have any laser like snipers do on their big burst move, which gives your target ample notice to los or activate a dcd. Or the flashy grenades on the target like Powertechs have. In that sense their burst seems kinda 'stealthy'.

 

I was in a Novare Coast with 4 guildies a few days ago. Three of us in Gunnery spec, and a sage healer. As usual sorcs were out in force on the other team. At the start of the match most of the team went to cap south as usual, and 2 of us mandos went behind the node. Our target caller on ts calls out, "(player name) is a sorc healer, marked", as the 2 of us open our rotations on him. Then a few seconds later, literally, he says "Errrrr...was a sorc healer." It was so funny at the time, wish I could have recorded it.

 

The rest of the match went pretty downhill for the other team, they weren't too good though. So I thought, maybe that's how they are meant to be used? Get 2-3 in a group using focus target, doing quick target swaps to whoever is squishy using easy mode 30m range, quickly burst them down, maybe throw in an electronet, profit? Although I'm sure a really good tank would be bad, those are kinda rare, even on premades. This is also just regs, but I am curious how it would work against better teams.