i can do this any day bro

not against anyone with skill

and what can you do on Mando when you dont have a guard? U have few medicore cds that can help you a bit and then you will melt very fast

HAHA! like I said, good luck.

SO maybe tell me mastah, gosu of pvp how will u survive 2 dps? More then a while? They will just shut you down. Show me your huge plays when u can heal ur team under heavy pressure.

and btw your only argument right now is: "i'm freaking gosu, nobody can kill me XD" maybe u play against very bad teams

kinda funny that you are already having to add stuff to your statment lol. we have some how gone from you utterly destroying a CM, to having 2 dps.....

well lets see, we have electro net, hold the line, adrenaline rush, reactive shield, bacta Infusion, tech override, kolto bomb, disabling shot, concussion charge, and cryo grenade. Any CM with half a brain can hold out for a long time with all of that.

SO maybe tell me mastah, gosu of pvp how will u survive 2 dps? More then a while? They will just shut you down. Show me your huge plays when u can heal ur team under heavy pressure.

 

and btw your only argument right now is: "i'm freaking gosu, nobody can kill me XD" maybe u play against very bad teams

um...thats all your arguments have been.

l2r bro i'm not saying i can utterly destroy mando medic alone, but i said mando is easy to shut down compared to scoundrel, and then u siad like: No no! only bads are easy to shut down, i will heal my team no matter how much im focused xD

let's see bacta infusion cool heal on a 18 sec cd, so yeah it will buy u a bit more time of your agony

tech override yeah cool, one medic probe instant every 2 min, cool =)

Hold the line - as i siad its nice, but its not the best escape mechanism there is

electro net - yeah its nice when u try to avoid that mara bashing on you,

kolto bomb - 6 sec cd and it doesnt heal for much, pretty luckluster if u wanna keep against some hardcore pounding

Reactive shield is on 2 min cd and doesnt give that much as soundrels combat stealth

against 3 dps i can survive as scoundrel if i have cds, at least for some time, enough to scamper away

as mando u will just melt, no matter what,thats why mando is just more guard dependent

l2r bro

I can do this any day bro

looks like you need to l2w...

kolto bomb - 6 sec cd and it doesnt heal for much, pretty luckluster if u wanna keep against some hardcore pounding

thanks for making my point, only badies can easly be shut down...

I dare you to go on ToFN and show your skills, baddie

i will copy one guys post from the pvp forum

The Problems with the Commando Healing tree:

1. No reduction to their defensive cooldowns: We only have two and they are both 2 minute CDs (very hard to rely on).

2. Stockstrike does not Root opponents like it does in Gunnery so you're only kiting tactic involves Kolto Bomb which is a 3 second 50% snare and it just doesn't get/keep melee off you by itself (Root on Stockstrike should be default for all Commando specs).

3. Resource management is terrible. Of all three healing classes, Commando is by far the worst in resource management efficiency and it needs to be addressed (in my opinion Advanced Medical Probe's CD should be reduced so you can always use it before casting a Medical Probe, and when you finish casting Medical Probe you can cast Advanced Medical Probe again. Also, Medical Probe should give 10 stacks of Supercharged cell instead of 6 so that it is possible to max out Supercharged Cells with 3 casts of Medical Probe just like Ops can max out their Upperhands with 3 casts of Underworld Medicine, aside from the Commandos Beam Heals and the Ops Slow Release-Medpac of course).

4. Very poor multi-target healing. Kolto Bomb is a very nice healing utility ability with it's short CD, however when compared to Sorc and Operative multi-target healing abilities by itself it just doesn't measure up (Sorc Bubbles + AoE, Op HoTs + AoE). I believe the Devs tried to mitigate this by giving us another talented AOE healing ability in Kolto Wave, but Kolto Wave is terrible for PvP because Commando's already have unreliable defensive CDs and they force us to blow our our knockback as well as risk white-barring our opponents just to get an extra AOE heal out to our team. The AOE heal should be independent from Concussive Charge.

5. The upper-tier talent Frontline Medic is horrible and almost completely useless, and we are forced to take it. No other class has a talent in this tier level that is this bad for their class and making us take it just adds insult to injury.

6. Commandos Healers have no Anti-Focus abilities. Sorcs/Sages get bubble and Ops/Scoundrels get Vanish, Commandos just get destroyed when they're focused.

7. You never even need to be marked by the opposing team, even the most basic PvP noobs can trace the big fat green beam back to you.

8. Finally, you have no unique utility ability to bring to the table. Ops get Stealth + Smuggle and Sorcs get Friendly Pull. Commandos get nothing.

Ultimately, compared to the other two healing classes, Commando Healers have less Survivability, worse resource management, and less overall healing than the other two healing classes, so at this time there is no reason to play one over the other two.

1. No reduction to their defensive cooldowns: We only have two and they are both 2 minute CDs (very hard to rely on).

Coincidentally, they are also very powerful. With good anticipation it should be very difficult to kill you through Adrenaline Rush unless you are being focus fired by 3+ (or 2 with very big burst). Reactive Shield is the Commando's God Mode and is probably the best defensive cooldown available to healers (Sage's immortal bubble is nice, but you can't do anything for the duration).

2. Stockstrike does not Root opponents like it does in Gunnery so you're only kiting tactic involves Kolto Bomb which is a 3 second 50% snare and it just doesn't get/keep melee off you by itself (Root on Stockstrike should be default for all Commando specs).

I'd much prefer the knockback on Stockstrike again. The slow from Kolto Residue should refresh with each tick of Kolto Pods as it does for the healing received buff and Charged Barrier. This would enable a 100% uptime.

3. Resource management is terrible. Of all three healing classes, Commando is by far the worst in resource management efficiency and it needs to be addressed (in my opinion Advanced Medical Probe's CD should be reduced so you can always use it before casting a Medical Probe, and when you finish casting Medical Probe you can cast Advanced Medical Probe again. Also, Medical Probe should give 10 stacks of Supercharged cell instead of 6 so that it is possible to max out Supercharged Cells with 3 casts of Medical Probe just like Ops can max out their Upperhands with 3 casts of Underworld Medicine, aside from the Commandos Beam Heals and the Ops Slow Release-Medpac of course).

I agree that resource management is the toughest out of all the healers. It is also what makes it very unforgiving to newcomers and it's something I wish they would review (either make Supercharge Cells easier to build, have it return ammo, or make Bacta Infusion refund ammo). Don't get me started on Scoundrels compared to Commando healers for resource management. The long story short: they took the overpowered resource of Commandos pre-1.2 and gave it to Scoundrels, only it is more potent, efficient, and flexible than what the Commando system ever had been.

Resource management becomes considerably easier if you have maximum bonus healing and a fair helping of alacrity. Avoid using MP unless it is necessary, even if proc'd. Supercharge every time it is available unless the damage is light. Kolto Bomb on cooldown. Use Hammershot almost every other cooldown. Use Bacta Infusion wisely. Use Tech Override and Reserve Powercell wisely. You should not need to use Recharge Cells more than twice in a match unless you are solo-healing.

4. Very poor multi-target healing. Kolto Bomb is a very nice healing utility ability with it's short CD, however when compared to Sorc and Operative multi-target healing abilities by itself it just doesn't measure up (Sorc Bubbles + AoE, Op HoTs + AoE). I believe the Devs tried to mitigate this by giving us another talented AOE healing ability in Kolto Wave, but Kolto Wave is terrible for PvP because Commando's already have unreliable defensive CDs and they force us to blow our our knockback as well as risk white-barring our opponents just to get an extra AOE heal out to our team. The AOE heal should be independent from Concussive Charge.

Being a weak group healer is a fair weakness to a class with such potent single-target healing, sustainability, and durability. Kolto Bomb is the game's most flexible AoE heal and is what makes the healing Commando's world go round. I think Trauma Probe could have its cap bumped up to 2, so you can at least put one on yourself and your tank/co-healer. Kolto Wave should not be thought of as a group heal -- it is useful when trying to clear melees off an ally or enemies off a control point. The healing is secondary to its role as a CC.

5. The upper-tier talent Frontline Medic is horrible and almost completely useless, and we are forced to take it. No other class has a talent in this tier level that is this bad for their class and making us take it just adds insult to injury.

True, the thing sucks and should be designed better. I don't think its worth the effort salvaging in its current state. It was borderline worthless when it was added in 1.4, making it a prereq for Probe Medic is painful (and utterly useless for PVE healers).

6. Commandos Healers have no Anti-Focus abilities. Sorcs/Sages get bubble and Ops/Scoundrels get Vanish, Commandos just get destroyed when they're focused.

I was agreeing with you for the most part until here. Hold the Line is an extraordinarily good way to get away from enemies with a cooldown short enough to throwaway at times. It's great against all enemies -- you can't be pulled back in by Vanguard/Shadow, you can't be rooted by ranged for their burst, and you can flat out laugh at any melee who leaps to you because you'll be out of melee range by time their GCD ends.

And they also have the two best defensives in the game for healers as already explained, but its worth going deeper into Reactive Shield. Reactive Shield is -25% damage reduction (pop an adrenal and its -40%), interrupt immunity, +20% healing received, 100% pushback resistance. Pop Hold the Line and you can only be interrupted by stuns. If you are at full resolve you should not die. The only way you can if you used it way too late.

7. You never even need to be marked by the opposing team, even the most basic PvP noobs can trace the big fat green beam back to you.

I swear, if you're one of those Commandos that doesn't use Hammershot because it's too bright...

(If you are, that might be why your resource management is suffering).

8. Finally, you have no unique utility ability to bring to the table. Ops get Stealth + Smuggle and Sorcs get Friendly Pull. Commandos get nothing.

Electro Net. If Tech Override effected Emergency Medical Probe and it shielded the effected player (with a skill tree talent, perhaps replacing Frontline Medic's current effect) so they could survive, it would be a mechanic completely unique to Commando healers.

Ultimately, compared to the other two healing classes, Commando Healers have less Survivability, worse resource management, and less overall healing than the other two healing classes, so at this time there is no reason to play one over the other two.

Commando healers have the highest survivability amongst the healers when played right. Resource management is doable if you know your limits and coordinate well with other healers. They have less group healing but underrated single target healing. Yes, Commandos will probably finish last in healing on the scoreboard, but that's because we have nothing to inflate our numbers with (Scoundrel's HoTs and Sage's Force Bubbles).

Coincidentally, they are also very powerful. With good anticipation it should be very difficult to kill you through Adrenaline Rush unless you are being focus fired by 3+ (or 2 with very big burst). Reactive Shield is the Commando's God Mode and is probably the best defensive cooldown available to healers (Sage's immortal bubble is nice, but you can't do anything for the duration).

 

 

 

I'd much prefer the knockback on Stockstrike again. The slow from Kolto Residue should refresh with each tick of Kolto Pods as it does for the healing received buff and Charged Barrier. This would enable a 100% uptime.

 

 

 

 

I agree that resource management is the toughest out of all the healers. It is also what makes it very unforgiving to newcomers and it's something I wish they would review (either make Supercharge Cells easier to build, have it return ammo, or make Bacta Infusion refund ammo). Don't get me started on Scoundrels compared to Commando healers for resource management. The long story short: they took the overpowered resource of Commandos pre-1.2 and gave it to Scoundrels, only it is more potent, efficient, and flexible than what the Commando system ever had been.

 

Resource management becomes considerably easier if you have maximum bonus healing and a fair helping of alacrity. Avoid using MP unless it is necessary, even if proc'd. Supercharge every time it is available unless the damage is light. Kolto Bomb on cooldown. Use Hammershot almost every other cooldown. Use Bacta Infusion wisely. Use Tech Override and Reserve Powercell wisely. You should not need to use Recharge Cells more than twice in a match unless you are solo-healing.

 

 

 

Being a weak group healer is a fair weakness to a class with such potent single-target healing, sustainability, and durability. Kolto Bomb is the game's most flexible AoE heal and is what makes the healing Commando's world go round. I think Trauma Probe could have its cap bumped up to 2, so you can at least put one on yourself and your tank/co-healer. Kolto Wave should not be thought of as a group heal -- it is useful when trying to clear melees off an ally or enemies off a control point. The healing is secondary to its role as a CC.

 

 

 

True, the thing sucks and should be designed better. I don't think its worth the effort salvaging in its current state. It was borderline worthless when it was added in 1.4, making it a prereq for Probe Medic is painful (and utterly useless for PVE healers).

 

 

 

I was agreeing with you for the most part until here. Hold the Line is an extraordinarily good way to get away from enemies with a cooldown short enough to throwaway at times. It's great against all enemies -- you can't be pulled back in by Vanguard/Shadow, you can't be rooted by ranged for their burst, and you can flat out laugh at any melee who leaps to you because you'll be out of melee range by time their GCD ends.

 

And they also have the two best defensives in the game for healers as already explained, but its worth going deeper into Reactive Shield. Reactive Shield is -25% damage reduction (pop an adrenal and its -40%), interrupt immunity, +20% healing received, 100% pushback resistance. Pop Hold the Line and you can only be interrupted by stuns. If you are at full resolve you should not die. The only way you can if you used it way too late.

 

 

 

I swear, if you're one of those Commandos that doesn't use Hammershot because it's too bright...

 

(If you are, that might be why your resource management is suffering).

 

 

 

Electro Net. If Tech Override effected Emergency Medical Probe and it shielded the effected player (with a skill tree talent, perhaps replacing Frontline Medic's current effect) so they could survive, it would be a mechanic completely unique to Commando healers.

 

 

 

Commando healers have the highest survivability amongst the healers when played right. Resource management is doable if you know your limits and coordinate well with other healers. They have less group healing but underrated single target healing. Yes, Commandos will probably finish last in healing on the scoreboard, but that's because we have nothing to inflate our numbers with (Scoundrel's HoTs and Sage's Force Bubbles).

^this

I've been defending mando's since day 1 but i recently lvl'd a sage to 55 to see what it is all about..... and on my way to 55 my highest wz, i was able to hit 1.4mil. Something i have never even come close to on my mando.......

I stand corrected.... mando output may need more help.

Coincidentally, they are also very powerful. With good anticipation it should be very difficult to kill you through Adrenaline Rush unless you are being focus fired by 3+ (or 2 with very big burst). Reactive Shield is the Commando's God Mode and is probably the best defensive cooldown available to healers (Sage's immortal bubble is nice, but you can't do anything for the duration).

 

 

 

I'd much prefer the knockback on Stockstrike again. The slow from Kolto Residue should refresh with each tick of Kolto Pods as it does for the healing received buff and Charged Barrier. This would enable a 100% uptime.

 

 

 

 

I agree that resource management is the toughest out of all the healers. It is also what makes it very unforgiving to newcomers and it's something I wish they would review (either make Supercharge Cells easier to build, have it return ammo, or make Bacta Infusion refund ammo). Don't get me started on Scoundrels compared to Commando healers for resource management. The long story short: they took the overpowered resource of Commandos pre-1.2 and gave it to Scoundrels, only it is more potent, efficient, and flexible than what the Commando system ever had been.

 

Resource management becomes considerably easier if you have maximum bonus healing and a fair helping of alacrity. Avoid using MP unless it is necessary, even if proc'd. Supercharge every time it is available unless the damage is light. Kolto Bomb on cooldown. Use Hammershot almost every other cooldown. Use Bacta Infusion wisely. Use Tech Override and Reserve Powercell wisely. You should not need to use Recharge Cells more than twice in a match unless you are solo-healing.

 

 

 

Being a weak group healer is a fair weakness to a class with such potent single-target healing, sustainability, and durability. Kolto Bomb is the game's most flexible AoE heal and is what makes the healing Commando's world go round. I think Trauma Probe could have its cap bumped up to 2, so you can at least put one on yourself and your tank/co-healer. Kolto Wave should not be thought of as a group heal -- it is useful when trying to clear melees off an ally or enemies off a control point. The healing is secondary to its role as a CC.

 

 

 

True, the thing sucks and should be designed better. I don't think its worth the effort salvaging in its current state. It was borderline worthless when it was added in 1.4, making it a prereq for Probe Medic is painful (and utterly useless for PVE healers).

 

 

 

I was agreeing with you for the most part until here. Hold the Line is an extraordinarily good way to get away from enemies with a cooldown short enough to throwaway at times. It's great against all enemies -- you can't be pulled back in by Vanguard/Shadow, you can't be rooted by ranged for their burst, and you can flat out laugh at any melee who leaps to you because you'll be out of melee range by time their GCD ends.

 

And they also have the two best defensives in the game for healers as already explained, but its worth going deeper into Reactive Shield. Reactive Shield is -25% damage reduction (pop an adrenal and its -40%), interrupt immunity, +20% healing received, 100% pushback resistance. Pop Hold the Line and you can only be interrupted by stuns. If you are at full resolve you should not die. The only way you can if you used it way too late.

 

 

 

I swear, if you're one of those Commandos that doesn't use Hammershot because it's too bright...

 

(If you are, that might be why your resource management is suffering).

 

 

 

Electro Net. If Tech Override effected Emergency Medical Probe and it shielded the effected player (with a skill tree talent, perhaps replacing Frontline Medic's current effect) so they could survive, it would be a mechanic completely unique to Commando healers.

 

 

 

Commando healers have the highest survivability amongst the healers when played right. Resource management is doable if you know your limits and coordinate well with other healers. They have less group healing but underrated single target healing. Yes, Commandos will probably finish last in healing on the scoreboard, but that's because we have nothing to inflate our numbers with (Scoundrel's HoTs and Sage's Force Bubbles).

haha good joke bro, highest survivability? with what?

first of all hold the line is not an anti focus, its good for escape, but with 3 guys focusing you it wont help you much

Shield is nice but on very long cooldown and if you say its better then sorc bubble you dont know the power of the dark side Sorc bubble is so amazing when you get focused hard, just op it and w8 till the other healer heal you in no time? Can mando do it? nope, when focused you have very few tools to just delay your inevitable death, unless you are lucky to have tank with guard and taunts.

Try playing a scoundrel and you will change your mind about who has better heals and more survuvbility

haha good joke bro, highest survivability? with what?

 

first of all hold the line is not an anti focus, its good for escape, but with 3 guys focusing you it wont help you much

 

Shield is nice but on very long cooldown and if you say its better then sorc bubble you dont know the power of the dark side Sorc bubble is so amazing when you get focused hard, just op it and w8 till the other healer heal you in no time? Can mando do it? nope, when focused you have very few tools to just delay your inevitable death, unless you are lucky to have tank with guard and taunts.

 

Try playing a scoundrel and you will change your mind about who has better heals and more survuvbility

This poster is correct. Hold the Line does not properly serve as an anti-focus ability because it doesn't stop the focus fire. If you're getting focused, you're still getting shot by 4 or more DPS while you're trying to run away (and even worse, you can be CC'd during it), meanwhile Vanish or Sorc Bubble stops the focus immediately. Also, consider that both the Op healer and the Sorc healer both have abilities similar to Hold the Line. Sorcs Force Speed breaks them from movement impairing effects, makes them invulnerable to them for it's duration, and increases their run speed 200% and has a shorter cooldown than HTL. Op healers have Dodge/Evasion which removes ALL negative effects from them (including movement impairing effects), gives them 200% melee/rage defense for it's duration, and it's already very low 60 CD is reduced by 3 seconds every 1.5 seconds they take damage. So when you compare Hold the Line (only 6 seconds of freedom from movement impairing effects on a 25 second CD) to the abilities the other healers get PLUS their REAL anti-focus abilities like vanish and immune bubble, it doesn't even out.

Secondly, Scoundrels have the best healer survivability in the game right now and that's why they're considered OP. Emergency Medpack, Cover, Vanish, instant HoT's, unlimited resources, and let's not forget about that OP roll , make them a lot harder to kill than Commandos.

I'm not saying Comamndo healers are completely un-playable, I'm just saying there is no reason to play them over the other two healing classes because the other healing classes do everything better. Our single-target heals really aren't that much better than theirs and certainly don't make up for all the other areas we are lacking.

haha good joke bro, highest survivability? with what?

 

first of all hold the line is not an anti focus, its good for escape, but with 3 guys focusing you it wont help you much

 

Shield is nice but on very long cooldown and if you say its better then sorc bubble you dont know the power of the dark side Sorc bubble is so amazing when you get focused hard, just op it and w8 till the other healer heal you in no time? Can mando do it? nope, when focused you have very few tools to just delay your inevitable death, unless you are lucky to have tank with guard and taunts.

 

Try playing a scoundrel and you will change your mind about who has better heals and more survuvbility

I've played Scoundrel enough to already know it is stupidly easy compared to Commando. I actually cannot play it for more than an hour straight or I will fall asleep from how boring it is. (Besides the fact that Scoundrels are due a nerf; they have too few weaknesses compared to the number of strengths they offer, so I'm not holding them up as a standard for the others when they are overperforming in PVP.)

As I've said in other threads, Sage and Commando healers are balanced with respect to each other. Sages are the best group healers and can prevent damage from occurring proactively. They are also healing glass cannons that are very vulnerable when they get locked down. Fittingly, they have only one very powerful defensive cooldown on a long timer. Most of their survivability comes from their skill at kiting, which again is fitting for the class.

Commando are strong single target healers with better but less efficient burst healing than Scoundrels. The average Commando will not have very good survivability and that's because the skill floor is so high (i.e. not noob-friendly), but the above averages ones will not die. They can take a tremendous beating and it is not uncommon for them to have the highest effective HP in the match (damage taken/deaths) while still keeping up with the other healers in performance. They have two very potent defensive cooldowns that make them able to take damage even longer -- and have the single target healing to prolong it even further. But they are terribly weak at group healing and it is easy to overextend your resource. The class probably has one or two too many weaknesses -- I've listed my suggested changes for the spec time and again that are small but would have big impacts -- but they can all be resolved easily given the time.

Secondly, Scoundrels have the best healer survivability in the game right now and that's why they're considered OP. Emergency Medpack, Cover, Vanish, instant HoT's, unlimited resources, and let's not forget about that OP roll , make them a lot harder to kill than Commandos.

Scoundrels are not overpowered because they have too much survivability (but it is part of the problem). They are overpowered because they have pretty much no weakness. They bring stealth, loads of CC, group stealth, burst healing on short cooldown, triage healing (healing in execution range), rolling group HoTs, foolproof resource management, roll, instant heals, subtle put powerful defensives, immunity to leaps while in cover, and passive talents that are too powerful. And for added measure, while Sages are weak to Tech and Commandos are weak to Force, Scoundrels have the ability to ignore both despite being a Tech user like Commandos. Their only weakness is good focus fire, which is irrelevant because everyone has that same weakness.

There is no question that the class is overperforming and it blows my mind that no one saw it coming because Scoundrels use the overpowered system that got Commandos nerfed in 1.2. The thing is, Scoundrels are inherently going to be the best PVP healers by virtue of their instant casts, CC, and burst healing -- the three hallmarks of any good PVP class. But then they were given that overpowered system which synergizes better with Scoundrels than it did Commandos.

So I guess the lesson we've learned is giving a class that is built to PVP heal an overpowered system will make that class overpowered.