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Class changes: Nerf vs. Buff

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class changes: Nerf vs. Buff
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WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
06.22.2017 , 01:39 AM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by mike_carton View Post
This is a good idea, meaning I agree with it.

Keep the level cap and gear rating cap in place for 2 years at a time. Gives the development team time to balance everything, fix bugs and introduce new story and gameplay elements into a stable environment. There will be time to see how things are working out, and how they're influencing a new meta. Players won't feel like they're constantly running to just be able to stay in the same place.
That would be terrible. New gear being introduced is one of the funnest times in MMOs. Something to work towards, something to aspire to, something to earn. Not everyone hates gearing. I LOVE it.

The problem here isn't that it takes too long to get BIS gear. I see people all over the place in full 248. A few months to earn full BIS gear is not a long time. I got full 242 gear just a few days before they released 248 gear and I was so happy that they were releasing 248 gear because at that point I had nothing left to work towards. I've been full 248 geared for about two weeks now, and that's not a very long time considering how recently it was introduced. I'm already hard pressed to find things to do and I'm losing interest already.

Now I get not everyone has the same amount of time as everyone else, that's a given, and that's unfortunate, but at the same time, I don't think it;s fair that some people have to sit around waiting for everyone else to catch up. Gearing as of 5.2 is not hard. If you can earn full BIS gear using nothing but basic attack, never stepping foot into an Operation and not ever winning one single WZ ever, that's not hard gearing system.

Does it take sometime and some grinding, sure it does. But that's MMOs. Not everyone is going to be geared the same and quite honestly, people who don't do Operations or PVP have no right to complain that it takes a long time to get BIS gear, they shouldn't get BIS gear at all. Could they get BIS gear before 5.0 at all never doing OPs? No. They couldn't even get it doing PVP.

You base gearing on how long it takes one character to become fully geared. Not how long it takes one character and 7 alts. It should take someone 7 times as long to fully gear 7 alts as compared to someone who is gearing only 1. There shouldn't be price breaks. It shouldn't get easier each character you gear, your spliting your time 7 ways, of course its going to take much longer. That's simple arithmetic! heh

It's like two people starting brand new characters at the same time. One of them can play 4 times a week and the other only 2 times a week. Is it unfair that the guy who can play 4 times a week is leveling faster than the guy who can only play 2 times a week? Should we make leveling faster for the people who dont have as much time and make it so the guy who can play more is done leveling in 3 days because other people dont have as much play time?

Those people who are better geared, they earned it. They put that time in. They aren't getting special treatment, they put in the exact amount of time it takes to get it just like anyone else will have to do to get it.

Not everyone plays 7 characters. And I'm not gonna sit around twiddling my thumbs paying for a game for 2 years bored off my *** because other people want to have 17 Alts geared before new gear comes out.

Everyone who is already fully geared, they earned it, they did the work, they put the time in. They deserve it. The only people who think that it is so hard to gear up in BIS gear now are people who didn't start playing this game until 4.0. Compared to pre 4.0, this is easy as hell. A couple of months to gear up in the best gear in the entire game, isn't a long time. If you want 7 alts in full BIS gear, it should take you 7 times as long.

I want cap raises. I want new gear. I love gearing up. For the people who don't, maybe this is the game for you. If BW tells me I have to wait a year now before I can improve my character, I'm not going to pay 12 months of subscription fees to have nothing to do.

I think 6 months is fair, if someone can't gear up in 6 months, they are doing something very wrong.

The BIS gear issue in PVP is a seperate issue. It's not even about the gear, it's about PVP not being skill vs skill, PVPers don't want eaiser BIS gear, they want gear as a total non factor. Even if you speed gearing up that wouldn't change a thing because there would still always be people who were fully geared. Setting the bolster higher than gear easily takes care of that problem, we know it would work because they did do that between 5.0-5.1.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, my response was only due because I didnt' want BW to think thats how everyone felt because plenty of people don't. Raiders live for gearing. In many respects, that's a large part of what progression raiding is all about. To me, and probably for many people who are fully geared, making new gear introduction with long intervals between [ more than 6 months] we are stuck "in the same place" already.

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar


DarkSaberMaster
06.22.2017 , 01:51 AM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by EzioMessi View Post
I don't think they were saying you possess skills that you said you don't. They were saying that tech support in ISPs probably don't possess the skill you think they do.

'Twas a joke.
Thank you. You actually got what I was saying. The people you call at these ISP's have no clue about troubleshooting. They read off a placard that goes "If you have this problem, go here. If not, go to this page." More akin to the Choose Your Own Adventure books that kids read.
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stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.22.2017 , 04:37 AM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by indelible View Post
Since KotFE, Bioware hasn't been at all focused on PvP ( if they ever were ). SW is a PvE game, with PvP mini-games. Always has been, always will be. That means, when it comes to balance, they'll focus on "making it harder to kill bosses" as a fix for "mercs are too hard to kill"
The ironic thing is that of all the endgame group activities:

Operations
MM FP's/Uprisings
Regs PvP
Ranked PvP
GSF

60% of them are PvP.

So, while I agree with your focus comment, I disagree with your overall premise.

indelible's Avatar


indelible
06.22.2017 , 07:15 AM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by stoopicus View Post
The ironic thing is that of all the endgame group activities:

Operations
MM FP's/Uprisings
Regs PvP
Ranked PvP
GSF

60% of them are PvP.

So, while I agree with your focus comment, I disagree with your overall premise.
The game as a whole is a story-based, PvE focused MMO. PvP content takes less time to develop and has greater longevity for many obvious reasons, so if you weight the content you're going to be able to say there's "more" PvP stuff than PvE stuff. However, if you weight the development time expended on PvE content ( including expansion story content, flashpoints, uprisings, etc ), you'll find that this content enjoys way more resources than PvP does ( or ever has ).
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stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.22.2017 , 08:30 AM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by indelible View Post
The game as a whole is a story-based, PvE focused MMO. PvP content takes less time to develop and has greater longevity for many obvious reasons, so if you weight the content you're going to be able to say there's "more" PvP stuff than PvE stuff. However, if you weight the development time expended on PvE content ( including expansion story content, flashpoints, uprisings, etc ), you'll find that this content enjoys way more resources than PvP does ( or ever has ).
From a development cost perspective, yeah - totally agree. Which is what makes it ironic - from a player engagement perspective, it is much more cost effective for them to put the resources into making one warzone, which will be very high value in terms of player time versus development cost, than an expansion like Iokath, which everyone blew through in 45 minutes and never went back to. Despite requiring much more development time and resources for the story expansion.

And yet even so, PvP is neglected.

Eli_Porter's Avatar


Eli_Porter
06.22.2017 , 08:40 AM | #116
I wouldn't say PvP takes less time to develop. A proper, interesting new warzone requires a fair bit of design time and testing.

You know what happens when you ask devs to spend just a little bit of effort into a new PvP experience? Iokath OWPvP.

stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.22.2017 , 08:49 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Eli_Porter View Post
I wouldn't say PvP takes less time to develop. A proper, interesting new warzone requires a fair bit of design time and testing.

You know what happens when you ask devs to spend just a little bit of effort into a new PvP experience? Iokath OWPvP.
I guarantee you one warzone takes less person-time than a story mode area with writing, CG cutscenes and voice acting, much less a whole expac.

Probably close to an order of magnitude less.

EzioMessi's Avatar


EzioMessi
06.22.2017 , 10:21 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by stoopicus View Post
I guarantee you one warzone takes less person-time than a story mode area with writing, CG cutscenes and voice acting, much less a whole expac.

Probably close to an order of magnitude less.
Even if we assume that war zones take more time to develop than any story or PvE content, it still has magnitudes more longevity.

We have what, 7 war zones and 4 arenas, and "give us a new war zone" is one of the LAST complaints you'll hear a PvPer make. Meanwhile for PvE we have a dozen operations, dozens of flashpoints and uprisings, and tons of solo content. And it's never enough. There are so many complaints from solo/story players that they have to put up with a 2.5 month story drought after two full years of story.

So in terms of cost vs benefit, PvP is easier to develop for.
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stoopicus's Avatar


stoopicus
06.22.2017 , 10:27 AM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by EzioMessi View Post
Even if we assume that war zones take more time to develop than any story or PvE content, it still has magnitudes more longevity.

We have what, 7 war zones and 4 arenas, and "give us a new war zone" is one of the LAST complaints you'll hear a PvPer make. Meanwhile for PvE we have a dozen operations, dozens of flashpoints and uprisings, and tons of solo content. And it's never enough. There are so many complaints from solo/story players that they have to put up with a 2.5 month story drought after two full years of story.

So in terms of cost vs benefit, PvP is easier to develop for.
Yup. Seems like a much higher reward for development time investment. Additionally, we know that there's a large and solid playerbase there as well, not just from empirical evidence from the leaderboards (~25k ranked characters in season 8, and ranked is a small subset of the total PvP population) but from queue times as well. Harbinger pops in under a minute prime time, TEH about the same, slightly less.

And yet it is basically ignored for months for improvements.

Lahandra's Avatar


Lahandra
06.22.2017 , 10:28 AM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by MuskyBoy View Post
Actually as a pressure spec being able to dot spread in the single target rotation is a huge advantage in PVP because it can affect both the player guarding as well as the guarded player without having to lower single target burst.
That's your best argument for AOE being so massively important that it should be balanced around??? So lets say in the case of madness, you're talking about the rare lucky instance that you might catch the two in that incredibly HUGE deathfield we have now, over 3 gcd's?? lol...... Or for that matter, a 2 gcd dart/grenade from a vir sniper?? Again....rare, and doesn't account for THAT much more damage. This is just a ridiculous gripe...... It's inconsequential dps in the long run, even if you're lucky enough to land it..... smh
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