I can't believe I read through all of that...but I felt that I had to before I could respond. Anyway...

 

It seems the consensus of the thread is that Revan would win in conventional warfare. His fleet is vastly superior, I don't think it could be argued otherwise given the loss of the Ravager and the fact that the Sith of Kotor 2 had the entirety of their fleet pretty much defeated in a single battle by a Republic that was already on the verge of collapsing. Not to mention that Reven has been shown a master of strategy and tactics, furthering his advantage and making the disparity here insurmountable.

 

So then let's look at Kreia's shadow tactics...unless we're giving her the advantage of initiating combat and giving Revan absolutely no idea who he's fighting until she strikes first (which seems entirely against the idea of this contest in the first place) then Revan will know her power base is Malachor V. Kreia can use her assassins but that's about it... they could cause some chaos and confusion for a little while but Revan would adapt and Kreia has no larger moves to make that utilize the confusion. Her Sith and military forces are nowhere near large enough to mount an attack on Revan's forces no matter how disoriented they are by assassins. She has no comparable military, rendering her one offensive advantage null.

 

So let's say Revan is attacking Malachor V. Given the nature of the planet, Kreia's fleet can either be defending it from space or...somewhere else. None of her ships can land on the surface any more than Revan's can, so anything that does defend the planet is quickly wiped out, and either way Revan now has COMPLETE control of anything coming into or moving out of Malachor V. If there's a way to block communications with this total blockade, he'll do it and neutralize any forces Kreia has outside of Malchor V, as they would lose coordination.

 

But now we're supposed to believe that Revan's only option is to land on the planet with everything he has, and in doing so manage to eliminate all of his and Kreia's forces so completely and effectively that they are left to duel in the heart of her power? Given Revan's clear advantage leading up to that point, this is absolutely the worst maneuver possible. He has so many more options, so let's explore them. Keep in mind, at this point Kreia would be unable to organize her Sith Assassins, so even if Revan had somehow had significant casualties before this, there is nothing else Kreia can do.

 

1. Bombard them from orbit. If ships are pulled in and smashed into the surface...then steer those ships so they crash into the target while blasting it with everything it has on the way down. I think I read someone saying this was against the rules? Well that just serves to lessen a clear advantage for no good reason, but there are other options.

 

2. Feel out the planet. Send scout teams, build forward bases, established artillery, entrench yourself just as much as Kreia is so that you have a secure postion to advance from. If, in the process, Revan comes to realize the planet makes all of this an impossible tactic, then he can abandone it in the early stages and lose a very small investment of his very large forces. Kreia would control only a very small portion of the planet, which means Revan has the rest of the planet to use as he pleases. Even if establishing a base of his own is not possible, he would have plenty of time to study the planet and develop the best possible methods of transporting troops without losing them, which would significantly improve his chances if an assault were necessary.

 

3. Turn Kreia's supporters. She is in a position in which it is obvious she has lost the upper hand, so Revan communicates a willingness to pardon and let live those who give up Kreia and surrender. It's already established that Kreia is no leader and cannot inspire loyalty, so naturally a large contingent would jump at the chance to save their own skins by turning her over. Even if she somehow maintain loyalty of some of Sith...who aren't known for their loyalty to weak leaders or lost causes, it would still incite at least some infighting, weakening Kreia's forces even further.

 

4. Wait. Even without the offer of a pardon, Kreai would be unlikely to maintain the loyalties of those beneath her for an extended period of time in a siege situation that left her powerless. The soldiers would be dying even if the Sith endured, but morale would be at an incredible low and very few Sith would desire to stay and defend the academy for an attack that might come at some point in the future form Revan's massive forces. Those not powerful enough to usurp Kreia's leadership might simply abandone her, and search for wrecked ships to take them off planet or even attempt to establish themselves elsewhere on the planet.

 

5. Attack. This would happen, if it needed to happen at all, after a long blockade of the planet. Any supporters of Kreia that remained would be low in number, underfed, and very low on morale. Revan could easily lose more than half his army landing them there, but even that wouldn't matter. Even a fraction of his forces would be able to storm the Academy at this point and take it down. Even in the heart of her power, Kreia would not have the strength to fight off dozens of Jedi and hundreds or thousands of troops that would face her there.

 

 

One final note I want to make, that I feel has been disregarded this whole debate. Every one keeps talking about how Kreia would attempt to turn Revan's men, or convert them, or cause them to lose faith in their leader...but Revan's forces have VERY clearly been shown to be exceptionally loyal to him, and Kreia's forces have been very clearly shown to be DISLOYAL. They are Sith, after all, and have clearly betrayed her in the past in favor of following the other 2 Sith Lords...so why would anyone think it is Revan's forces that would abandon him and not hers?

 

Kreia's has one advantage here, the Mass Shadow Generator making landing on the planet difficult (even though I thought the OP said "No superweapons, e.g. Mass Shadow Generator...") but that can only count for so much when she is clearly disadvantaged in every other way that matters. And even with that taken into account, Revan has numerous victory conditions that are extremely likely to occur. Kreia has one: she gets to 1v1 Revan in the place she's most powerful, which would be achieved through the contrived coincidence of ALL of their forces dying in one battle. So who's winning this fight? It seems pretty clear to me...

That's exactly what I've been saying. However you've added some new points to this discussion.

The thing (I believe that this is the most important thing here) is the bombardment.

Let's look at the bombardment:

Is there a lot of space debris floating around? Yes

Is the MSG still active? Yes (however it seems it might be violating Kaggath rules)

So yeah... a bombardment is gonna be costly, you'd end up loosing several ships BUT:

- you could program droids to pilot the ships

- the ships would still be able to fire some rounds off before they were downed

- when they're being downed, the pilots (droids) could aim the ship at the Acadamy.

So the damage that Revan can inflict from a bombardment is gonna be huge. If he has to throw half of his fleet at the planet, it'll be worth it. At this point; he lands his Jedi and overwhelms Traya.

But I liked your point about Revan offering Traya's men/Sith the chance to surrender. Doubtlessly many of them would do this. And many of the ones who didn't would be starved.

Beni: I changed my mind. I think Revan wins this. Unless you somehow rule out the bombardments, then there really isn't a way for Traya to win.

I'd like to add to the bombardment thing:

- Revan can also land any combat droids that he possesses

- As the fleet is bombarding (or ship chucking) Malachor, Revan can land at the desired point. This will prevent Traya from setting up all her ambushes and what-not due to the fact that her and her Sith will be under fire.

So Revan, along with nearly all of his Jedi and any combat droid he has is gonna land on Malachor, without any initial ambushes. Also, they'll be facing the remains of the Trayus Acadamy, which will have been shot at, and crushed with ships. I'm confident Revan can win from there on. Heck, with all that debris floating around, Revan could find a way to chuck THAT at Malachor, instead of his own ships. So the bombardment could look like this:

Firepower of the ships for as long as they can remain in orbit

+ debris that they could chuck debris at Malachor

+ ships that they chuck at Malachor

+ blockade which starves out the weaker Sith

= hardly any remains of Traya's army

Also: Beni says it'd be tuff to set up a bombardment. But don't forget that Revan is a great tactician. He's studied this stuff.

And you know what? If worst comes to worst, Revan will BREED 'EM OUT!! Due to lack of enough Jedi, he'll sit back, and make some Jedi babies, train those Jedi babies, and then attack!

LOL I'm totally kidding. That'd be so hilarious.

DEVELOPMENT:

OK I just got on the wiki, looked up Malachor V, and found (and remembered) that the MSG had to be activated by Bao-dur's probe! This means that the MSG would, indeed, not be active during this battle.

This provides further proof that Revan is gonna be able to bomb the crap out of Malachor V.

So yes, the gravity is unstable, but it's not gonna be much danger to a ship, unless the ship stays there for a while.

But in reality, MSG or not, Revan wins this.

This talk of bombardment is foolish at best. If we are under the impression that Revan knows Traya is at Malachor, then Traya knows he is coming.

As soon as Revan's fleet comes out of hyperspace, they begin the bombardment. They aim wildly in an attempt to hit the Academy. Suddenly, the Triumvirate fleet comes out of hyperspace behind Revan's fleet. Caught off-guard, Revan's fleet takes heavy losses as they turn to engage the enemy fleet. But by the time they turn around, the enemy has vanished. But not before Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships.

The bombardment resumes, but suddenly, multiple Haamerhead frigates fire upon their allies. The Assassins have taken control of multiple frigates and are firing on the Republic ships. But then the Triumvirate fleet returns. The Assassin ships and the Triumvirate fleet quickly defeat the Republic fleet.

Revan doesn't get a chance to bombard the Academy.

OK, I'm not going to make too much of an argument just point out a few flaws:

1. Chemical warfare is allowed but seeing as Revan has shown no possession of chemical weapons it is not apart of his power base and therefore cannot be used.

2. No, the MSG is not active and cannot be activated. I think you misintpreted when I spoke of this, when I mean you can't turn it 'off' I meant its effects can't be stopped. Even after its activated its the mass shadows continue to remain around Malachor causing its instable gravity - so ships could only stay there for a small amount of time.

3. Orbital bombardment is possible, but not if you don't no what to bombard. The Trayus Academy is a tiny speck on Malachor's surface and Revan does not know its exact location. I'm going to make an assumption here but I expect electrical storms would prevent Revan's scanning the planet for the Academy. And while he could scour the planet with the Force, both the dark side and Traya herself would cloud him vision. Sending ground forces is the only option.

4. Defections are unlikely. A majority of Traya's forces are mindless sith who have been become enslaved to the dark side. Whats more Malachor doesn't exactly have holoprojectors, how is Revan going to trasmit this message? However many Sith are more autonomous and while they would never join Revan, they would flee the battle (however they have no where to go - so a fight to the death is likely)

5. Just to address a non-Battle of Malachor related topic. People seem to think the Jedi's devotion to Revan will stop them from falling. Wrong. Traya's isn't going to bribe you, she's going to torture and force you into submission with the overwhelming power of the dark side - as Revan did in the JCW and she did during the First Jedi Purge - its tried and proven. (e.g. Remember Bastila? She was turned without Malachor, and had no motives for joining Malak)

6. Revan cannot throw debris at Malachor, lol. This isn't that 2D Clone Wars series. And on the topic of unorthodox orbital bombardment - the gravity of Malachor would prevent ships from crashing into the academy, they would have no control over their path. May I also add that the Trayus Academy is submerged into Malachor's crust. It survived the Mass Shadow Generator! And thousands of ships being smashed against the planets surface! It can survive a brief orbital bombardment.

Basically orbitally bombarding the most inorbitally bombardable planet in the galaxy is not a sound tactic. Open ground warfare however is

However there are three things I'd like you to consider on that point:

Storm Beasts

Electric Storms

Poisonous Vents

This talk of bombardment is foolish at best. If we are under the impression that Revan knows Traya is at Malachor, then Traya knows he is coming.

 

As soon as Revan's fleet comes out of hyperspace, they begin the bombardment. They aim wildly in an attempt to hit the Academy. Suddenly, the Triumvirate fleet comes out of hyperspace behind Revan's fleet. Caught off-guard, Revan's fleet takes heavy losses as they turn to engage the enemy fleet. But by the time they turn around, the enemy has vanished. But not before Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships.

 

The bombardment resumes, but suddenly, multiple Haamerhead frigates fire upon their allies. The Assassins have taken control of multiple frigates and are firing on the Republic ships. But then the Triumvirate fleet returns. The Assassin ships and the Triumvirate fleet quickly defeat the Republic fleet.

 

Revan doesn't get a chance to bombard the Academy.

A interesting point, would Traya have the Forces to spare? Perhaps. Revan could probably overwhelm her with superiors numbers - but that's if you believe Traya wins the space battle. I say they tear each other apart. Traya would be ready though - the dark energies on Malachor do give her foresight.

P.S. This is becoming an even more interesting debate - I'm still undecided about the outcome.

EDIT: Aurbere! Stop making stuff up! I never said orbital bombardment was ruled out, I just believe in my opinion that is is nigh impossible. But that's my opinion there and that has the same value as anyone else. What is law will be declared in big capital letters!

This talk of bombardment is foolish at best. If we are under the impression that Revan knows Traya is at Malachor, then Traya knows he is coming.

 

As soon as Revan's fleet comes out of hyperspace, they begin the bombardment. They aim wildly in an attempt to hit the Academy. Suddenly, the Triumvirate fleet comes out of hyperspace behind Revan's fleet. Caught off-guard, Revan's fleet takes heavy losses as they turn to engage the enemy fleet. But by the time they turn around, the enemy has vanished. But not before Assassins sneak onboard a couple of Revan's ships.

 

The bombardment resumes, but suddenly, multiple Haamerhead frigates fire upon their allies. The Assassins have taken control of multiple frigates and are firing on the Republic ships. But then the Triumvirate fleet returns. The Assassin ships and the Triumvirate fleet quickly defeat the Republic fleet.

 

Revan doesn't get a chance to bombard the Academy.

Have I not explained 1,000 times that Revan wins the space battles? Sure this hit and run stuff you speak of is affective, but these aren't tactics that are unfamiliar to Revan.

I thought we'd come to the conclusion that Revan is gonna end up surrounding Malachor V?

But you're right to an extent. Traya's warfare will inflict some casulties on Revan, so he's not gonna be surrounding Malachor with 100% of his forces. But he'll have most of them.

A interesting point, would Traya have the Forces to spare? Perhaps. Revan could probably overwhelm her with superiors numbers - but that's if you believe Traya wins the space battle. I say they tear each other apart. Traya would be ready though - the dark energies on Malachor do give her foresight.

 

P.S. This is becoming an even more interesting debate - I'm still undecided about the outcome.

If you are referring to her take over of several Republic ships, you bet she has enough Assassins. The Triumvirate had a ton of assassins (a thousand I think). I'm thinking she sends ten or twenty to each ship and takes over four ships. The surprise of having your own ships fire on you and then another fleet come in will cause confusion. Either way, I think Traya will win the space battle, but at a heavy cost. The battle costs both sides heavily, making a ground assault Revan's only real option. Traya knows this and will summon the power of Malachor to make every step his forces take a living nightmare.

The troops will be overwhelmed by the power of the Dark Side, seeing hallucinations the soldiers discharge their weapons randomly and then commit suicide as the nightmares grow in intensity. Jedi will be corrupted, their connection to the Light Side diminished, making them easy prey for Traya's assassins. I find it unlikely Revan will get far, but if he does make it to the Academy, he faces an army of Sith. I don't see Revan getting to the Trayus Core, but if he does, he will lose.

Have I not explained 1,000 times that Revan wins the space battles? Sure this hit and run stuff you speak of is affective, but these aren't tactics that are unfamiliar to Revan.

 

I thought we'd come to the conclusion that Revan is gonna end up surrounding Malachor V?

 

But you're right to an extent. Traya's warfare will inflict some casulties on Revan, so he's not gonna be surrounding Malachor with 100% of his forces. But he'll have most of them.

Hmmm, the way I see it. And I'm in arbiter-my-word-is-law mode, is that Revan wins the space battle. But Traya hounds him all the way and tears most of his fleet apart, setting them against him etc. But with each loss Traya loses more of her small force, and eventually does not have enough to pilot all the ships she has captured. Realizing her defeat on the space front she retreats to Malachor V - where she holds all the advantages. Revan breaks through her retreating line and surrounds Malachor. But of course Traya is prepared, mustering the last of her fleet she attacks Malachor and damages Revan's fleet (which has yet to engage, expecting an ambush) Superior tactics on Revan's part means the fleet is wiped out, but Revan takes losses.

With the remainder of his Forces he moves in to take Malachor, and the rest is up for debate....

So the above it basically K-Canon (Kaggath Canon ) on what happened in the space battle, based on my judgement of your arguments. So we can set that aside and focus on the final showdown.

Have I not explained 1,000 times that Revan wins the space battles? Sure this hit and run stuff you speak of is affective, but these aren't tactics that are unfamiliar to Revan.

 

I thought we'd come to the conclusion that Revan is gonna end up surrounding Malachor V?

 

But you're right to an extent. Traya's warfare will inflict some casulties on Revan, so he's not gonna be surrounding Malachor with 100% of his forces. But he'll have most of them.

You are correct that Revan will end up surrounding Malachor. My scenario showed Revan's first attempt at a bombardment. He wouldn't bring in all of his forces until he knew the planet was clear of an enemy presence. The first assault was beaten, but that doesn't mean Revan doesn't have any more ships. He has plenty of ships to bring in, but I don't think bombardment is possible.

The electrical storms would make locating the Academy nearly impossible, not only that, but the Academy is imbeded into the surface. It's not just sitting there like a normal Academy. It's roots run deep, the Trayus Core sits in a well of Dark Side energy. A simple bombardment is not going to sufficiently damage the Academy.

OK, I'm not going to make too much of an argument just point out a few flaws:

 

1. Chemical warfare is allowed but seeing as Revan has shown no possession of chemical weapons it is not apart of his power base and therefore cannot be used.

 

2. No, the MSG is not active and cannot be activated. I think you misintpreted when I spoke of this, when I mean you can't turn it 'off' I meant its effects can't be stopped. Even after its activated its the mass shadows continue to remain around Malachor causing its instable gravity - so ships could only stay there for a small amount of time.

 

3. Orbital bombardment is possible, but not if you don't no what to bombard. The Trayus Academy is a tiny speck on Malachor's surface and Revan does not know its exact location. I'm going to make an assumption here but I expect electrical storms would prevent Revan's scanning the planet for the Academy. And while he could scour the planet with the Force, both the dark side and Traya herself would cloud him vision. Sending ground forces is the only option.

 

4. Defections are unlikely. A majority of Traya's forces are mindless sith who have been become enslaved to the dark side. Whats more Malachor doesn't exactly have holoprojectors, how is Revan going to trasmit this message? However many Sith are more autonomous and while they would never join Revan, they would flee the battle (however they have no where to go - so a fight to the death is likely)

 

5. Just to address a non-Battle of Malachor related topic. People seem to think the Jedi's devotion to Revan will stop them from falling. Wrong. Traya's isn't going to bribe you, she's going to torture and force you into submission with the overwhelming power of the dark side - as Revan did in the JCW and she did during the First Jedi Purge - its tried and proven. (e.g. Remember Bastila? She was turned without Malachor, and had no motives for joining Malak)

 

6. Revan cannot throw debris at Malachor, lol. This isn't that 2D Clone Wars series. And on the topic of unorthodox orbital bombardment - the gravity of Malachor would prevent ships from crashing into the academy, they would have no control over their path. May I also add that the Trayus Academy is submerged into Malachor's crust. It survived the Mass Shadow Generator! And thousands of ships being smashed against the planets surface! It can survive a brief orbital bombardment.

 

Basically orbitally bombarding the most inorbitally bombardable planet in the galaxy is not a sound tactic. Open ground warfare however is

 

However there are three things I'd like you to consider on that point:

 

Storm Beasts

Electric Storms

Poisonous Vents

OK so you claim bombardment will be ineffective for the most part. This is debatable, but for the most part, I guess you're right.

But Revan WILL end up surrounding Malachor V. Once he has the planet blockaded, he'll do the following things:

1. He's gonna wait 'em out. Seriously, this wins the battle here. I imagine Traya can survive without food through the force, but her students will be incapable of this. So Revan starves them out.

2. He's gonna scan the planet. If this doesn't work, he'll send in scouts. He's got an endless amount of time at this point, so he WILL aventually find the Trayus Academy.

3. Once he finds the Academy, he'll bombard it. You made the point that this won't do much, but Revan can likely chew down a few of their numbers by doing this. Won't do a whole lot, but it'll do some damage.

NOTE: Everything that happens after this point likely won't happen because Traya's forces will starve.

4. Revan will begin a long-term assault as somebody pointed out earlier. He'll take his time, being very careful with any beasts, traps, and ambushes. This process will be executed as slowly and as safely as possible. Revan will be sending Jedi and what few combat droids he has to Malachor's surface.

5. He does some more starving and sets up artillery and does everything imaginable to weaken the Trayus Academy.

NOTE: At this point: 90% (that's generous) of Traya's forces are dead.

6. ATTACK!

Revan + most of his Revanites + combat droids vs Traya alone

Revan wins.

OK so you claim bombardment will be ineffective for the most part. This is debatable, but for the most part, I guess you're right.

 

But Revan WILL end up surrounding Malachor V. Once he has the planet blockaded, he'll do the following things:

1. He's gonna wait 'em out. Seriously, this wins the battle here. I imagine Traya can survive without food through the force, but her students will be incapable of this. So Revan starves them out.

2. He's gonna scan the planet. If this doesn't work, he'll send in scouts. He's got an endless amount of time at this point, so he WILL aventually find the Trayus Academy.

3. Once he finds the Academy, he'll bombard it. You made the point that this won't do much, but Revan can likely chew down a few of their numbers by doing this. Won't do a whole lot, but it'll do some damage.

NOTE: Everything that happens after this point likely won't happen because Traya's forces will starve.

4. Revan will begin a long-term assault as somebody pointed out earlier. He'll take his time, being very careful with any beasts, traps, and ambushes. This process will be executed as slowly and as safely as possible. Revan will be sending Jedi and what few combat droids he has to Malachor's surface.

5. He does some more starving and sets up artillery and does everything imaginable to weaken the Trayus Academy.

NOTE: At this point: 90% (that's generous) of Traya's forces are dead.

6. ATTACK!

Revan + most of his Revanites + combat droids vs Traya alone

 

Revan wins.

There's one fatal flaw in this. You are under the impression that Traya is the only one who can sustain herself with the Dark Side. That's wrong. Pretty much all Sith and Jedi can enter a trance that can sustain themselves against hunger and dehydration. Starving doesn't work. Which means your little plan here falls apart.

Not only that, but the electrical storms make operating machinery difficult. Uneven terrain makes artillery even more ineffective. Not only that, but the electrical storms and intense gravity make landing incredibly difficult and would destroy most ships.

Revan does not win.

Hmmm, the way I see it. And I'm in arbiter-my-word-is-law mode, is that Revan wins the space battle. But Traya hounds him all the way and tears most of his fleet apart, setting them against him etc. But with each loss Traya loses more of her small force, and eventually does not have enough to pilot all the ships she has captured. Realizing her defeat on the space front she retreats to Malachor V - where she holds all the advantages. Revan breaks through her retreating line and surrounds Malachor. But of course Traya is prepared, mustering the last of her fleet she attacks Malachor and damages Revan's fleet (which has yet to engage, expecting an ambush) Superior tactics on Revan's part means the fleet is wiped out, but Revan takes losses.

 

With the remainder of his Forces he moves in to take Malachor, and the rest is up for debate....

 

So the above it basically K-Canon (Kaggath Canon ) on what happened in the space battle, based on my judgement of your arguments. So we can set that aside and focus on the final showdown.

K-Canon? Interesting.

OK just to be clear;

At this point Revan has about 40% of his original forces?

Traya has about 40% of hers and they're all on Malachor?

If this is so, then the scenario I just posted still applies and (imo) Revan wins.

4. Revan will begin a long-term assault as somebody pointed out earlier. He'll take his time, being very careful with any beasts, traps, and ambushes. This process will be executed as slowly and as safely as possible. Revan will be sending Jedi and what few combat droids he has to Malachor's surface. Revan wins.

You left out one massive thing, Malachor would twist a lot of those Jedi to the Dark Side, You also underestimate the Dark Side itself, Sith can easily go without feed or drink or sleep as long as the rage of the Dark Side is within them.

Traya herself could corrupt Revan and his Jedi and win the war without any real consequence, A Dark Side nexus like Malachor V is way too much for a Jedi to resist, even a master would struggle, all the Jedi but the Exile turned when they went to Malachor V, it would be an enormous advantage.

You also aren't accounting for Traya's ability to perceive shatterpoints and adjust her plans accordingly.

There's one fatal flaw in this. You are under the impression that Traya is the only one who can sustain herself with the Dark Side. That's wrong. Pretty much all Sith and Jedi can enter a trance that can sustain themselves against hunger and dehydration. Starving doesn't work. Which means your little plan here falls apart.

 

Not only that, but the electrical storms make operating machinery difficult. Uneven terrain makes artillery even more ineffective. Not only that, but the electrical storms and intense gravity make landing incredibly difficult and would destroy most ships.

 

Revan does not win.

OK so they can go into a trance? Well if they do this, then during their trance, (oh by the way all of her regular soldiers WOULD die by starvation) they won't be able to effeciently mobilze for a ambush when Revan arrives. So they'll be totally unprepared when the battle comes.

So the best thing that can happen for Traya is this: stalemate. Either that, or Revan charges in with his men and slaughters the upprepared Sith. You can't be in a trance and defend yourself at the same time.

The thing is, Revan is gonna have all the time in the world, while Traya and her Sith are busy being in a trance. This gives Revan a abundance of time to plot. He wins.

This isn't gonna be some D-Day battle. It's not gonna be like storming Normandy. Revan is gonna land, have all the time in the world to plan, and either chip away Traya's forces, or just slaughter them.

K-Canon? Interesting.

 

OK just to be clear;

At this point Revan has about 40% of his original forces?

Traya has about 40% of hers and they're all on Malachor?

 

If this is so, then the scenario I just posted still applies and (imo) Revan wins.

Fleet wise: Traya 0% Revan 20%

Ground forces wise: Traya 40% Revan 70%

OK so they can go into a trance? Well if they do this, then during their trance, (oh by the way all of her regular soldiers WOULD die by starvation) they won't be able to effeciently mobilze for a ambush when Revan arrives. So they'll be totally unprepared when the battle comes.

 

So the best thing that can happen for Traya is this: stalemate. Either that, or Revan charges in with his men and slaughters the upprepared Sith. You can't be in a trance and defend yourself at the same time.

 

The thing is, Revan is gonna have all the time in the world, while Traya and her Sith are busy being in a trance. This gives Revan a abundance of time to plot. He wins.

 

This isn't gonna be some D-Day battle. It's not gonna be like storming Normandy. Revan is gonna land, have all the time in the world to plan, and either chip away Traya's forces, or just slaughter them.

Again, you are under the impression that Revan's forces are capable of fighting the Dark Side itself. Traya and her Sith can sit in the Academy all they want while Revan "plans". He can't plan for the effects of the Dark Side. There's no magic solution to protect his fellows from Malachor itself.

Troops have nightmares and discharge a blaster bolt in their skull rather than see it continue. Jedi are corrupted to the Dark Side and consumed by bloodlust, attack their allies. Even Revan will be taken into the Darkness.

Every moment on Malachor will be a living nightmare for his men. Revan can't fight the Dark Side.

OK so they can go into a trance? Well if they do this, then during their trance, (oh by the way all of her regular soldiers WOULD die by starvation) they won't be able to effeciently mobilze for a ambush when Revan arrives. So they'll be totally unprepared when the battle comes.

Oh yes of course, sith soldiers wouldn't even be one Malachor in the first place.

But then again, Republic soldiers would not be either - they'd go mad and run around screaming and shooting - more of a hazard really.

And we cannot forget, Traya is a wise woman. The longer Revan takes with his attack, the more time Traya has to prepare/figure out a plan (shatterpoints - very good point)

We also can't forget that Malachor basically counts as a weapon. But it is a double-edge sword - the assassins/sith cannot leave the academy.

May I add that it is my personal opinion that at least Revan could make it to the academy alive, and probably carve his way to the Core. He also made it to the academy before, so I don't think Revan would succumb to the darkside, well he might succumb, but not go mad. The dark side energies of Malachor are not that powerful. Interesting thought, Revan would probably fall to the dark side on Malachor - is that an advantage or not?

Again, you are under the impression that Revan's forces are capable of fighting the Dark Side itself. Traya and her Sith can sit in the Academy all they want while Revan "plans". He can't plan for the effects of the Dark Side. There's no magic solution to protect his fellows from Malachor itself.

 

Troops have nightmares and discharge a blaster bolt in their skull rather than see it continue. Jedi are corrupted to the Dark Side and consumed by bloodlust, attack their allies. Even Revan will be taken into the Darkness.

 

Every moment on Malachor will be a living nightmare for his men. Revan can't fight the Dark Side.

Alright. You make a good point. So Revan sends a few men to Malachor to find that they go insane. What does he do? He doesn't attack.

Stalemate. That's generous. If Malachor V is so impossible to infiltrate (which Revan will learn through observation and by sending a few men down) the Revan won't infiltrate it. He will sit there and grow a beard.

Stalemate.

Stalemate.

Don't mean to burst you bubble But according to the ground rules the Kaggath is a fight to the death, no surrender -no stalemate. Someone's gotta die.

A thought: Lets say Revan makes it to the Core, is overwhelmed by the dark side and embraces it.

Darkside Revan vs Traya & Malachor? (Basically they can both draw on the dark side energies of Malachor)

Alright. You make a good point. So Revan sends a few men to Malachor to find that the go insane. What does he do? He doesn't attack.

 

Stalemate. That's generous. If Malachor V is so impossible to infiltrate (which Revan will learn through observation and by sending a few men down) the Revan won't infiltrate it. He will sit there and grow a beard.

 

Stalemate.

Given the right circumstances, a stalemate is possible. But it also gives Traya time to make plans. Remember: Apathy is death! Traya would see Revan's plan as a weak one and exploit it. While the blockade makes leaving nearly impossible, a stalemate is difficult to maintain. Revan has to keep a fleet at Malachor in order to keep a stalemate. This comes down to Traya finding a way to exploit Revan's strategy. I can't think of way, but I'm sure the Force would show her what to do.

Don't mean to burst you bubble But according to the ground rules the Kaggath is a fight to the death, no surrender -no stalemate. Someone's gotta die.

K well that doesn't seem fair. That pretty much forces Revan into a very undesirable situation.

I just don't think it's fair that Revan can blockade the entire planet, outnumber Traya, and still lose. Malachor V has become a superweapon.

A thought: Lets say Revan makes it to the Core, is overwhelmed by the dark side and embraces it.

Darkside Revan vs Traya & Malachor?

Nah, Revan is no match against such a learned Dark Sider, he either becomes her apprentice or dies, simple.

Don't mean to burst you bubble But according to the ground rules the Kaggath is a fight to the death, no surrender -no stalemate. Someone's gotta die.

 

A thought: Lets say Revan makes it to the Core, is overwhelmed by the dark side and embraces it.

Darkside Revan vs Traya & Malachor? (Basically they can both draw on the dark side energies of Malachor)

Hmm... interesting.

I'd still have to give it to Traya. Dark Side Revan wouldn't be able to draw upon the full power of Malachor as Traya would. Not only that, but she still has those epic abilities on her side while Revan doesn't.