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Class Balance in 6.0 (Question)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Class Balance in 6.0 (Question)

memerobot's Avatar

10.12.2018 , 02:54 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
I don't miss with any of my attacks as a melee unless mara if the other player doesn't have something on me like obfuscate or diversion. So, no, that assertion is wrong.
It has the same accuracy as many other attacks. The 'missing a lot' simply has to do with defense chance. You got unlucky, too bad.
Check the parse whenever you play your marauder, the attacks from second saber fails a lot of attacks since, for some reason, has decreased accuracy.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
LOL the entire team is mezzed? Really?, I've never seen that as there are always a dot on someone. Or we don't stack so they can't hit all of us. In which case, the healer cleanses the stun. I pretty sure 99% of people don't know you can do that.
Just by ready this, I can see you never tried TR against a proper team.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
**** really? Stun and LOS. It's not that hard to do in the vast majority of the circumstances. Stop being lazy.
All arenas, you'll be caught in open areas and not next to any sort of LoS but again this is only against proper teams that happens to you.
Lower tier teams will just net you right away and not think ahead of what you could pull of.

In regs, depends on where you are placed:
Huttball > unless you're already at the sides, 'cover' from net is pretty much impossible.
Novare Coast > Unless you manage to hide behind to bunker walls with the merc on the other side, or the turret's 'thingy', there's no real place to hide.
Ancient Hypergate > If the fight is at middle, you either use the walls next to the entrance or the middle «thing» and if next to pylons, you use the pillars on the side.
Yavin Ruins + Alde Civil War > At mid, you're close to the beneath the ramps or behind the console; At the sides, stand on the side of the stairs or behind console.

These are all the places, pretty much, where you can hide and honestly, you're rarely caught in a net in these situations. At least, against smart mercenaries. Yet again, there's always the majority that just waste nets.
And mezzing won't work 80% of the cases in regs

4) Merc:
Nr1: Hydraulics > 45s - lasts for 6s (can go up to 10s)
Nr2: Jet Boost > 30s (can be 25s + utility that can reduce its CD 1s every 1,5s but barely anyone takes this)
Nr3: Rocket Out > 20s (can be 17s + has utility that can refresh it 1 more time in case takes melee or tech damage, so that means any double saber throw or vicious throw will give you extra kiting.)
Nr4: Missile Blast > 8s, roots you 5s (It says 4s but the thing is bugged and already roots you, a lot of times, before it even lands on you) but if taken damage, its 2s to be gone.
Nr5: Arsenal spec only >, your Blazing bolts reduce 70% of speed while channeled + 1,5s-3s after it ends.
Nr6: Utility on your spam attack(tracer missile) to reduce speed by 40%

Nr1: Predation every 30 stack or every 30s
Nr2: Mad Dash: Every 45s(can be reduced to 35s)
Nr3: Stealth: 45s (Honestly effective if they have cleanse effects from utility, otherwise, you'll keep the effects of root/slow down)
Nr4: Leap: Every 12s I believe (Add another in case you're Fury with Obliterate + Utility that allows you to double leap)
Nr5: Cripplish Slash: reduce speed by 50%
Nr6: Ravage: Can equip Utility to root but this can be cleansed by anyone
Nr7: Utility to add reduce speed by 50% on Force Charge, Force Rend, Obliterate, Devastating blast for 6s

Mara has most gap closers/reduce speed to catch up with but they can be shut down through roots anyway AND you can verify that Merc has lower CDs on the more 'important ones, even if the number is lower'.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
This is mostly a player issue not having the awareness of their surroundings. Need to figure that one out on your own. I don't have the time to explain everything.
Same thing the other way around.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
Yes, it's a huge waste of a utility. If you take it and use Missile Blast you lose DPS/DCDS/Healing. Plus the rooting effect is really only semi-useful in 1v1 situations. But like you stated before arenas are not 1v1s.
Semi useful? You severely underestimate the power of this utility, seriously. And how come you lose DPS/DCDs/Heals?
Every damned 8s you have a chance to use 2/3 heals(2 channeled + instant/ 1 channeled+instant/2 channeled) and follow up with attack. If the marauder uses a rootbreaker, you gained an advantage right away because he wasted an important one against something that is spammable AND a marauder CAN'T heal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
)If you are at least a mediocre player you can.
Considering you catch the merc at a relatively short health (below 20%), yeah, possible, otherwise, the double tick actually can be stronger than the mara's attack, since merc can just throw the instant heal to compensate if not enough to keep the health high thus keeping itself up but again in regs, I don't find this problem but try dueling against proper mercs and you'll see what I mean.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
If merc reflect is broken so is Enraged Defense. When I can heal from literally 1% to 100% in 1-2 GCDs there is something wrong.
ED can be used in a mere 2/3 GCDs against bursts and can vanish in a single GCD if it goes against a dot and again they STILL TAKE FULL DAMAGE.
Just so you see the difference, I've managed to burn through ED as Lethality Operative in 1 GCD quite the few times before. Corrosive Assault (strongest attack in Lethality, 11k) + Toxic Blast for every dot tick (deals puny 1.5k at most)+ 3 dots procced by Corrosive Assault (usually 2k each, at most 3k). That's 7 attacks and more 4/6 attacks from the automatic ticks from the dots on target. In total, its 13 attacks. And the dots can double tick (10% chance), as well 13>12.
So, in total, I've dealt, at most, 35k damage, while he supposedly healed, easily, +150k health(atm ED ticks heal 17k, I believe. So 17k x 12 is more than 200k).
As you can see, Jugg lost potential heals(about 30k up to 50k) from that since it can go full health after 6-8 of them.

Merc heals 5% every attack it lands and reflect lasts 6s and they don't take damage aside from light dots and AOE attacks
And mara attacks are bugged af, as well. No matter which attack a marauder does, it counts like this: 1 attack +1 because retarded "two sabers" wielding, so that means that, by accident, if I hit the merc with melee, and since marauder uses 2 sabers, I've healed 15%, which is around 20k because it counts as 2 + 1. If you don't believe me, open parse, use any melee attack and you'll see in parse how many attack it counts. Even damned Vicious throw counts as 2.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
No, really, you need to learn to play at a higher level than SM Warrior or 1k rating.
I reached Gold on my Leth Operative with pugs (random teammates and no comms) in S9 and got 2 Gold(S8+S9) on my marauder. Also have Silver in other seasons (S6+S7). I've only started playing real PvP after S5 ended.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
No, I know what their limits are. I see many of them in Ranked and they are not nearly as mobile as you think.
Proper Mercs can go around their 'limits'. Same with Marauders.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
LOLOLOLOLOL a merc that makes 1-3 mistakes is usually dead really soon. You should really learn to play so as to not make more mistakes than a merc or anyone else for that matter.
Reg Mercs (75%) do this. Proper ones don't. Same argument goes for a mara.
And everyone does mistakes here and there. No one's perfect.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
Yeah, I'm going to take the advice of someone that is crying about mercs.
Sorcerer/Mercenary/Operatives should not lose to snipers as long as there's something to hide behind from. There's always turn around but it is an advantage to be able to heal and to exist objects to hide behind.

Quote: Originally Posted by Whynotdothis View Post
No, just learn to play.
Right. Would like to see you pull it off a lot of times against 2 proper players with.
Best scenario is Solo Ranked and catching up proper players or Team Ranked where both teams ARE GOOD and lost their healer and tank(this rarely happens) and you are also the only DPS alive in yours against 2 others.
Rarely, in regs, you find proper players, and when you do, its NOT A REAL FIGHT. It is something from the likes of stalling a cap because Operative is the niche role of protecting objective points.

CannotDeny's Avatar

Today , 07:31 AM | #52
I really hope nobody on the dev team listens to you guys or thinks its a good idea to
1) Remove more skills/not add any new skills
2) Remove the option to mix tank and DPS gear/skank tank setups
3) Remove tanky/heal abilities from DPS or have tanks unable to use DPS stats

You're all clamoring for killing choice, akin to when they removed stances and pruned a bunch of flavor abilities that for example you could have just not used on your action bar.

Terrible, but if it gets to that point I no longer have to worry about this game's future.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar

Today , 12:30 PM | #53
edit : woops wrong thread
-Beruhl / Pewgilist / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Sejanos / Tupac Hord
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.

Eloi_BG's Avatar

Today , 02:07 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
5 - I can't imagine the amount of crack you smoked that brought you to this utterly wrong conclusion. This is a ranged meta up and down and even if it wasn't that principle would still be wrong. Custom dictates that melee must have higher dps than ranged due to greater up time, being less prone to damage [because they are wussies and fight from 5 blocks away] and can adjust to mechanics with greater ease and still be able to DPS properly unlike melee whom any time they need to get more than 4m away, must stop DPSing no matter what.

You are a NiM level player so it would be impossible for you to come to this conclusion having done Revan HM, TOS Coritanni and Master/Blaster HM, Styrak NiM, TFB NiM, DP/DF NiM.

If there is no difference in uptime and safety between ranged and melee, stop standing so friggen far from the boss all the time, stand right next to the melee all the time and stop DPSing anytime you have to go further than 4 m from your target like melee do.
If you think this is a ranged meta in PVE you're wrong. Melee DPS have dominated PVE since this 5% rebalance thing they did, even on every single boss you just mentionned. 2-3% would be a lot more fair. Please don't talk like you're a NiM player saying that kind of things: "You are a NiM level player so it would be impossible for you to come to this conclusion [...]". Pretty much every single MM player agrees this 5% gap is too big.

As for PVP, I don't see snipers and mercs dominating because of their DPS. No one really dominates because of their DPS, its mostly the other utilities that shape up PVP. A 2-3% difference is not really important in PVP and doesn't change the meta.

Side note on that last paragraph I quoted. You just showed with that how little you understand how high end PVE is played, you should refrain from commenting on something you obviously don't know too much about. Thank you
Nemio the Acceptable Player

SiegePro's Avatar

Today , 02:12 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by CannotDeny View Post
I really hope nobody on the dev team listens to you guys or thinks its a good idea to
1) Remove more skills/not add any new skills
2) Remove the option to mix tank and DPS gear/skank tank setups
3) Remove tanky/heal abilities from DPS or have tanks unable to use DPS stats
1) The only skill I want removed is the abjectly worthless Transpose for the Vanguard/Powertech tanks. And that's not so much "remove" as "replace with something that is actually more useful than just spamming your basic attack." As it stands, right now the VG/PT tanks get one useless (transpose) and one marginal (oil slick/smokescreen) talent as part of their spec... so literally HALF their spec's powers could stand some serious revamping or replacing. What it could REALLY use is an actual "Oh Crap!" reflect ability and to have the levels for its grapple and charge abilities swapped (There is NO reason charge should be delayed until level 59. NONE).

2-3) I'd only really be for removing the DPS gearing for tanks if they also included a DPS version of the tank builds (i.e. same skills, dps-level armor/defenses and damage). The biggest issue I see with skank setups is its effect on group-finder content. Skanks have problems with higher end tanking, but are flagged as tanks for group-finder. They also have a disproportionate effect on PVP content.

But, at least for Shadow/Assassin and Vanguard/Powertech, they're also the build that plays the most like what you'd EXPECT of the class... a better mix of melee and 10 meter abilities without being a DoT-based class... which is why I see the appeal of the builds and why people would gear them as a Skank for solo play (so they can least be in the ballpark of the damage they need to deal to run through Heroics and Story-mode Flashpoints without it turning into a slog). In the case of the Vanguard its also your only non-DoT choice that doesn't have you giggling like a crazy person every six seconds as their key proc triggers... you're supposed to be a professional soldier damn it, not a stand up comedian.

That's why I'd honestly be for some type of toggle or something similar that could let you set the tank spec to DPS-mode without having to respec, re-select your utilities, swap out your gear and rearrange your skill bars just because you're wanting to do solo content at the moment instead of group content.

The biggest constraint there is that whatever toggles it between tank and DPS mode has to be something that can't just be flipped in the middle of a fight... preferably it should be something not able to be toggled in combat at all and honestly should have a cool-down in the 10-15+ minute range on top of that, but I'm not sure what the technical limitations of the game engine are to enable something like that.

Barring something like that though, for the sake of people who like to use the tank spec in solo content (and really, how are you supposed to get any good with it if you can't practice with it?), I can't condone removing the option to gear in a more DPS-focused way for them.