no to alex and kendra.

do you remember back in s1-3? caprica had a rating in the 2ks and was complaining that he never got a pop anymore because there weren't any other players online near his ELO rating. the matchmaker would still have to work those 2k players into the matches, and there aren't enough of them to fill their own queue. you'd still have to change the fundamental way matches are made, and doing so would effectively sideline the best players, thus punishing them for being good.

it would, however, benefit the newer and weaker players who fluff the population.

do you remember back in s1-3? caprica had a rating in the 2ks and was complaining that he never got a pop anymore because there weren't any other players online near his ELO rating. the matchmaker would still have to work those 2k players into the matches, and there aren't enough of them to fill their own queue. you'd still have to change the fundamental way matches are made, and doing so would effectively sideline the best players

This is exactly the problem I just mentioned. Literally, I just stated this problem - if there arent 8 similarly skilled players it currently matches the best with the worst to effectively average it out. I.e. how do you handle the fact that there aren't 8 2k players sitting in the queue? (4 each team, for the truly challenged among us).

I merely added an assumption that, by some miracle 8 - 2k players did happen to be all queueing at the same time, they'd all be in a match together

no, I wasnt playing pvp of any kind back then.

I guess I'm overly generous and assume that if the matchmaker could put 8 people of similar skill in a match it would.

It does. When there are multiple matches going at once, it groups all of the highest elo players into one game, and the lowest elo players into the other. I've seen it happen enough times that I'm quite sure that's how it works. But often there's only one game going at a time, which is when the mixing inevitably happens.

do you remember back in s1-3? caprica had a rating in the 2ks and was complaining that he never got a pop anymore because there weren't any other players online near his ELO rating. the matchmaker would still have to work those 2k players into the matches, and there aren't enough of them to fill their own queue. you'd still have to change the fundamental way matches are made, and doing so would effectively sideline the best players, thus punishing them for being good.

 

it would, however, benefit the newer and weaker players who fluff the population.

That already happens to some degree. I get skipped a lot, and when I look at /who I see all lower elo players.

Also, the reason some had such high ratings back then is because of how matchmaking frequently ended up stacking teams in favor of higher rated players. As soon as they added in cross faction, and made the changes in matchmaking, players aren't reaching anything close to those ratings anymore, because matches are much fairer now than they've ever been (the population problem notwithstanding).

fair for the overall match, not the individual.

i'm a proponent of everyone being in ranked, btw. if everyone were ranked, there would be a large enough population for everyone on the same team to be close to the same ELO.

however, as alex stated above, ego prevents players from queuing, not just to avoid roflstomps, but if they start seeing a .500 batting average instead of the .750 that their ego demands, they'll stop queuing to protect their self-image. it's human nature and applies to all of us. so I'm not attacking ppl for doing this so much as stating that the sun is hot.

PVP has become unbearably toxic - and I don't just mean smack talk, I can handle that, I mean the same players gating people through abuse of vote kick.... planning to vote kick people (typically new) the minute a Ranked WZ starts and doing so right at the last minute to prevent a completion count.

I've had toons griefed for an entire day by what are clearly the same people and their alts gating new toons from even completing the 10 matches to start getting a rank on leaderboards....originally I figured they were just jerks, now I suspect they're doing it as a form of win trading. They kick a non-grouped member, throw the match and thereby throw off suspicion for a loss. That's my theory anyway.

originally I figured they were just jerks, now I suspect they're doing it as a form of win trading. They kick a non-grouped member, throw the match and thereby throw off suspicion for a loss. That's my theory anyway.

I guess that’s plausible

I guess that’s plausible

It's possible, but I kind of doubt it. Kicking players is pretty rare. There are two scenarios where I see kicking happen.

One is just when a certain player or players decide that a person is too bad to be in the queue. If the player being kicked is clearly trying to win and isn't saying anything to suggest that they aren't trying their best, then kicking that person is totally unjustified.

A second, related scenario is when a player is playing poorly and when confronted about it, they are either in complete denial about their bad play or they claim to be there "just for the mats." In those cases, kicking becomes increasingly justified in my opinion. I'll give an example. Yesterday there was a guardian tank in queue in solos on Star Forge. This tank refused to ever swap guard. He was told repeatedly, by several different players, sometimes with specific directions, how to guard swap. He wouldn't do it. For those not aware, a tank refusing to guard swap is like a dps refusing to do damage. It's not optional. He started telling people to stop telling him how to play and that he was there for crystals. Well, by the third match in a row of this, his team, including me, decided to kick him. Totally justified in my opinion. He was actively ruining games and he knew it. There's no place for that garbage in ranked.

So, sometimes kicking is uncalled for, and shouldn't be done. There certainly are real victims of it, and it sucks that that happens. But if you're just playing ranked for mats, and you don't know what you're doing, and you won't even listen to the most basic advice about how to play, then they were probably justified in kicking you.

A second, related scenario is when a player is playing poorly and when confronted about it, they are either in complete denial about their bad play or they claim to be there "just for the mats." In those cases, kicking becomes increasingly justified in my opinion..

I totally understand this sentiment, but it's wrong. BW implicitly made it so when they created that asinine weekly for a monumental crystal. I'm with you. I think that's how it should be. But that is not how this season is "designed." BW wants ppl in there no matter how bad. As long as they're trying to win (not afking/throwing) I don't think there's anything you can do. And for those who don't try and are willing to lose 50 matches in a row, I mean...that's how I feel about <pvp guild> ignoring objectives in WZs. so part of me thinks "it serves you right" sort of thing (even though it usually hurts ppl who have nothing to do with whoever's ruining your pvp life).

I totally understand this sentiment, but it's wrong. BW implicitly made it so when they created that asinine weekly for a monumental crystal. I'm with you. I think that's how it should be. But that is not how this season is "designed." BW wants ppl in there no matter how bad. As long as they're trying to win (not afking/throwing) I don't think there's anything you can do. And for those who don't try and are willing to lose 50 matches in a row, I mean...that's how I feel about <pvp guild> ignoring objectives in WZs. so part of me thinks "it serves you right" sort of thing (even though it usually hurts ppl who have nothing to do with whoever's ruining your pvp life).

But the people I'm talking about aren't really trying to win, that's the point. Remember, I said "increasingly justified," meaning that you shouldn't automatically kick someone for being there for the mats. You can be there for the mats, and still be trying to win. And if you're playing really poorly, but you take on advice and try to do better, that's all I can ask. But when people sit there and just play terribly, and when they've been told how to play better, and they clearly don't care at all about whether they win or lose because they're just there for mats...that's unacceptable.

By the way, I've only participated in kicking about 3 or 4 people in hundreds and hundreds of matches over the last year or so. It's quite a rare thing for someone to be a bad enough person to justify doing it.

well, maybe musco will chime in here, but I'm quite sure that ignoring "advice" from teammates isn't a reasonable excuse to kick someone from grp. they're just "taking longer to get the reward" than other players.

tbh, I would act like the sin (in my Q last week) did as well: he stated that he would continue to queue all night and nothing the guy berating him said would stop him. all it takes is one person to flip out and it crystallizes the determination of the poor player to not cooperate. oh. they'll still try, but don't expect them to listen to your advice after you (or 2 other ppl next to you) just told him he's a sh*tter, never Q, and /quit life. honestly, what do ppl expect? and don't tell me that isn't what happens even when you're not the one doing it. I've been on the other end.

well, maybe musco will chime in here, but I'm quite sure that ignoring "advice" from teammates isn't a reasonable excuse to kick someone from grp.

That's not at all what I meant. Did you read my example? I'm not talking about subjective "advice." I'm talking about a tank that refused to ever swap guard. That is not an optional thing to do. A tank not guard swapping is like if a dps were to just run around the map using mobility abilities and emotes while doing literally 0 damage. That's the kind of play I'm talking about. I am NOT just talking about bad players. There are completely terrible players that queue all the time that I would never dream of kicking, because they're trying to play, they're just bad.

But a tank not guard swapping, and other equivalents, are not trying to win. The part about other players telling them repeatedly how to do basic things is just to prove that they are aware that they are not playing the game to a minimum standard of competence. Playing like that, when you must know better, is functionally indistinguishable from throwing, which surely is what the kick system is meant for. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you.

tbh, I would act like the sin (in my Q last week) did as well: he stated that he would continue to queue all night and nothing the guy berating him said would stop him. all it takes is one person to flip out and it crystallizes the determination of the poor player to not cooperate. oh. they'll still try, but don't expect them to listen to your advice after you (or 2 other ppl next to you) just told him he's a sh*tter, never Q, and /quit life. honestly, what do ppl expect? and don't tell me that isn't what happens even when you're not the one doing it. I've been on the other end.

That is such a childish attitude, and it is far, far worse behavior than mere trash talking. The people ruining games with that kind of stubborn, terrible attitude are the actual problem, not the "toxicity" from people playing to win.

originally I figured they were just jerks, now I suspect they're doing it as a form of win trading. They kick a non-grouped member, throw the match and thereby throw off suspicion for a loss. That's my theory anyway.

Yep. There was a thread that was created by a guy complaining about being booted by groups to properly skew the matches for one side to win easily. Pretty sure it’s somewhere on the forums still.

Yep. There was a thread that was created by a guy complaining about being booted by groups to properly skew the matches for one side to win easily. Pretty sure it’s somewhere on the forums still.

Maybe this is happening at off hours on EU servers. I wouldn't know. But I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that this never happens on Star Forge during regular playing hours. And I believe the person who has talked about that is Mero, who gets kicked for other obvious reasons. Best to always take what he says with a huge grain of salt.

That is such a childish attitude, and it is far, far worse behavior than mere trash talking. The people ruining games with that kind of stubborn, terrible attitude are the actual problem, not the "toxicity" from people playing to win.

So who's childish? The guy ignoring advice, be it good or bad, because he's being called names? Or the guys calling him names?

Again... one of those threads...

Ranked has always been full of people with horrible attitude and hostility towards beginners... No, mats aren't to blame here.

It was like this long before mats were added. And by the way, mats were added to make more people que and get to know ranked since the population is getting lower every season.

That's not at all what I meant. Did you read my example?

yes. I disagree with you. it happens.

That is such a childish attitude, and it is far, far worse behavior than mere trash talking. The people ruining games with that kind of stubborn, terrible attitude are the actual problem, not the "toxicity" from people playing to win.

have you seen shinarika's streams? this whole forum fawned over her. they couldn't gush loud enough. maybe you just watched the prettily cut videos of her killing blows set to some techno crap. maybe she never showed the vids of her guild turtling with the ball in a dumpster on the side of the map with the expressed purpose of making the match last 15 minutes and laughing at the inferiority of the overwhelmed pugs they were playing (with and against). or the fact that the BEST, most skilled players group together in regs and ignore objectives, ignore calls for help, gleefully rush to the attacker spawn of VS first doors and could care less about getting capped? are you telling me that's any different from a stubborn, fictitious tank, we'll call her A Rose for Emily, not guard swapping despite being asked to? because it's not. it really isn't.

what is unfortunate is that as rampant as those premades are, they aren't even the majority of ppl getting screwed in solo ranked. but hey, the world isn't fair. and it's not as if I like losing a match due to tank roulette, but I can appreciate the irony.

more to your point, one behavior breeds the other. you berate someone for being bad, even if he is bad, you're generally not going to engender cooperation. and let's not kid ourselves, the very first reaction to a bad player is rage and ridicule, not constructive criticism delivered in a calm or friendly manner. HOWEVER, things are a lot more congenial this season than they were when I left a couple years ago. I've said that in one of these threads before. it's still off-putting for ppl new to the format. and I just /facepalm when I see the same ppl raging at the bad players on their team, because it's only making that person angry and more likely to lash out to spite the good player who actually cares about his rating.

Maybe this is happening at off hours on EU servers. I wouldn't know. But I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that this never happens on Star Forge during regular playing hours. And I believe the person who has talked about that is Mero, who gets kicked for other obvious reasons. Best to always take what he says with a huge grain of salt.

No it wasn’t Mero, it was some dude I didn’t recognize on the forums.

The guy raged about it, it was more of a rant etc. then even Banderal had it happen to him, in fact I think I recall you having conversations with him about it on the forums, if not sorry I might be mistaken.

So who's childish? The guy ignoring advice, be it good or bad, because he's being called names? Or the guys calling him names?

That's not even the scenario lol. Also, apparently the word "advice" has confused a lot of people. If you think telling a tank that he has to guard swap is mere "advice"... Let's just say I'm really happy a lot of you forum posters don't queue ranked, that's all I'll say.

No it wasn’t Mero, it was some dude I didn’t recognize on the forums.

 

The guy raged about it, it was more of a rant etc. then even Banderal had it happen to him, in fact I think I recall you having conversations with him about it on the forums, if not sorry I might be mistaken.

Yes, Banderal did have it happen to him, and if you recall, I was in the thread saying that it was a disgrace, because he didn't deserve it. The person who got his team to kick him is a major ******e as well.

more to your point, one behavior breeds the other. you berate someone for being bad, even if he is bad, you're generally not going to engender cooperation. and let's not kid ourselves, the very first reaction to a bad player is rage and ridicule, not constructive criticism delivered in a calm or friendly manner. HOWEVER, things are a lot more congenial this season than they were when I left a couple years ago. I've said that in one of these threads before. it's still off-putting for ppl new to the format. and I just /facepalm when I see the same ppl raging at the bad players on their team, because it's only making that person angry and more likely to lash out to spite the good player who actually cares about his rating.

This is essentially victim blaming. The incompetent players (and remember, when I say incompetent, I mean truly incompetent, like tanks who don't guard swap, not just bad) are the ones ruining games, not the people who care about their ratings. There are some truly vile people that queue for solo ranked, and some of them talk way too much trash, and take things way too far. But at least they can play, and that is the most important factor in a competitive game mode. This isn't hand holding story time (and I say this as a real life liberal by the way).

That's not even the scenario lol. Also, apparently the word "advice" has confused a lot of people. If you think telling a tank that he has to guard swap is mere "advice"... Let's just say I'm really happy a lot of you forum posters don't queue ranked, that's all I'll say.

 

 

 

Yes, Banderal did have it happen to him, and if you recall, I was in the thread saying that it was a disgrace, because he didn't deserve it. The person who got his team to kick him is a major ******e as well.

 

 

 

This is essentially victim blaming. The incompetent players (and remember, when I say incompetent, I mean truly incompetent, like tanks who don't guard swap, not just bad) are the ones ruining games, not the people who care about their ratings. There are some truly vile people that queue for solo ranked, and some of them talk way too much trash, and take things way too far. But at least they can play, and that is the most important factor in a competitive game mode. This isn't hand holding story time (and I say this as a real life liberal by the way).

Banderal was on SF, I imagine if people did it to him they’d do it to anyone regardless of skill level. Just another way to manipulate the system. There’s so many holes in the ranked scoring system, even you got to admit it’s bad.

Banderal was on SF, I imagine if people did it to him they’d do it to anyone regardless of skill level. Just another way to manipulate the system. There’s so many holes in the ranked scoring system, even you got to admit it’s bad.

I have agreed there are major flaws. But in my experience kicking people is exceedingly rare. And kicking people that don't deserve it is even rarer.

just to prove "i don't like ranked" is not synonymous with "i have never done ranked" or "i am bad at ranked"...

https://imgur.com/a/yAhVzD5

and no, you won't find this toon on the leaderboards because I don't do 10 matches on any one toon often.

Imagine if Bioware had worked the matchmaking years ago so there was quality over pop times. There would be many more people still playing and pop times would probably be better due to more balanced and quality games,

 

Bioware have always had this absolutely stupid philosophy that pop speed is better than quality. This has driven just as many or more people away from pvp as slower pops. Eventually the quality is so **** that pop speed mean nothing if people stop playing.

 

I’ve given up on pvp for the meantime. Something I thought I’d never do. I just can’t bring myself to play it in this game anymore because it’s such a joke at all lvls. So as far as the pvp queue goes, they’ve lost another pvper from it all because of the stupid matchmaking in both ranked and regs.

That and the demise of lowbies, Mids and the garbage that is regs, has made me abandon pvp. I’ve not stepped foot into into it for a month, except to play one last lowbie match to get a weekly finished.

 

I think I’m done. I’ve broken my pvp addiction because it was unhealthy how upset and angry I would get during and after a pvp session. I’ve a few Alts I want to finally finish the story on and some achievements, rep and personal goals I want. After that, I guess I’ll unsub when classic WoW is released because I can’t see 6.0 fixing any of the things that have made me stop playing pvp.

The only time I noticed lowbies and midbies popping is when the double exp event is going on, because thats when people like myself login to obscure characters to gain some levels since WZ are still a great way to level.

Regs has been full-time trash since 5.0 IMO, I know no one will agree but I felt it immediately when they gave mercs 3 lives it was over. The entire feel of regs just felt stupid after that. 4.0 felt very balanced to me, every class was viable in mercs they just had to kite alot but still very deadly. The scales tipped way to far for mercs, and of course with that come your "friendly" local neighborhood premade team who stack 3 mercs and a healer and thats pretty much GG for regs.