As you've said before. Which therefore makes it facts.

 

No. Hate to brake it to you. Your word is not law. The fact that you have "said something before" does no make it so.

 

Sidious wanting to make Yoda suffer instead of killing him immediately if he could, is your interpretation. As I've said before.

No. My word is not law. But G-CANON is. And G-Canon states that Yoda was no match for Sidious and that Sidious was toying with him. Seriously just watch the movie and read the novel.

And yet, you seem to ignore the facts in favor of your own opinion. Read the novel and watch the movie.

 

We have seen Sith toy with their opponents several times. Sidious is no different. He did toy with Yoda. The movie and novel show that.

Point out a fact that I have ignored.

And no, the movie and novel does not show Sidious toying with Yoda. They show him winning. Not toying.

And yet, Sidious was laughing. Read the novel and watch the movie.

I've already addressed the laughing part. Go back and read.

No. My word is not law. But G-CANON is. And G-Canon states that Yoda was no match for Sidious and that Sidious was toying with him. Seriously just watch the movie and read the novel.

G-CANON does not state that Sidious was toying with Yoda. Repeating your interpretation does not magically turn it into a fact.

Guys this is Caedus vs Yoda. Have you watched the any jensaari vs' videos?

there it gives a rough estimate of yoda and sidious' master. Ask himfor sidious vs yoda to the death.

Caedus is stronger due to the raw force potential. And even if we just went with 'normal' Jacen Solo we would see some who's foce potential is greater than yoda's. If as Jacen he used Oneness against Yoda, he would win. After becoming a Sith Lord where he 'duel' both jaina and luke at the 'same' time. Now why don't you guys just argue about Caedus, Skywalker scion, vs Yoda, Grand Master.

If we had them battle at level both of them had when they were about to die, I would still give it to Caedus, mostly because Yoda was 900 years old.

G-CANON does not state that Sidious was toying with Yoda. Repeating your interpretation does not magically turn it into a fact.

Actually Leland Chee has in fact stated this...

Actually Leland Chee has in fact stated this...

Where?

Remember that time when Yoda went to fight Sidious and Sidious tried to escape?

"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."

 

This was taken from Leland Chee himself. Sidious was more powerful than Yoda. Yoda realized that directly facing Sidious was doomed to failure. It also states that Sidious was too powerful for him to defeat. Nowhere does it state that Yoda wasn't in his prime. It pretty much comes down to this. Yoda may be the most powerful Jedi pre-Luke. However, Sidious was simply a more powerful Sith. If you watch the scenes you'll notice that except in two instances it almost seemed as if Sidious was playing with him. The only two times he seemed worried was when he was being pushed back in a saber lock and also when Yoda was absorbing his force lightning.

Thanks to Rhyltran.

You guys do realize that Sideous had probably forgotten more tricks than Caedus knew about, it is arguable that Caedus was stronger than Sideous in raw potential, but he was fairly in-experienced. Yoda probably could beat Caedus due to the lack of experience.

Remember Luke nearly killed Caedus on Caedus's own flagship, if Ben Skywalker hadn't been the psychological mess that he was (courtesy of his cousin), quite frankly the Legacy of the Force series would have ended back in the book Inferno.

Also Luke commented that he saw something horrible would happen if he took on Caedus (see Invincible), where Luke actually said flat out that it would be cause Luke would win, not Caedus.

Thanks to Rhyltran.

Yeah, I've read the novelization and I remember the part where Yoda realized he won't win. That's all different from saying Sidious was just "toying" with him through the whole fight though. Yoda was one of about four people who Sidious actually feared, along with Mace Windu and Anakin and Luke Skywalker.

You guys do realize that Sideous had probably forgotten more tricks than Caedus knew about

Not necessarily, Cadeus went on that trip in search of unique force powers, Sidious (per the Rule of Two) learned the accumulated knowledge of the Sith then killed his master and focused on his political schemes. As opposed to Caedus, who learned from many diverse force groups as well as Sith and Jedi).

it is arguable that Caedus was stronger than Yoda in raw potential, but he was fairly in-experienced. Yoda probably could beat Caedus due to the lack of experience.

Caedus was impressively calm, patient, and disciplined in almost all his fights (save for those with his family). I think his experience in battle is easily a match for Yoda's, even at Yoda's age. Jacen acted far older than he was all the time from the Vong invasion to his death.

Remember Luke nearly killed Caedus on Caedus's own flagship, if Ben Skywalker hadn't been the psychological mess that he was (courtesy of his cousin), quite frankly the Legacy of the Force series would have ended back in the book Inferno.

In the Inferno fight it was Ben's stabbing Caedus with a knife, that won Luke that fight and he didn't finish Caedus off for fear of falling to the Dark Side (thus it took Dark Side tactics to beat Caedus that time). I admit Luke could have killed Caedus but honestly, EU Luke would kick our little green friend to the curb so it's not fair to compare the two based on that.

Also Luke commented that he saw something horrible would happen if he took on Caedus (see Invincible), where Luke actually said flat out that it would be cause Luke would win, not Caedus.

I covered this one above well enough I believe.

In short, Caedus wins this. His Skywalker force potential, combined with his heightened and honed battle senses, his lack of pain, and his impressive array of unique force skills rivaled only by Luke himself, Caedus is just a bit too unorthodox and just powerful enough to defeat Yoda.

On another note and one that is often overlooked, is Jacen/Caedus was an EXCEPTIONAL duelist with a saber, even being put on the level of Luke. Heck he fought Jaina with one arm and hole in his stomach and she still needed him to be distracted in order to kill him.

Ok - So slightly off topic

Would Caedus beat Windu?

Ok - So slightly off topic

 

Would Caedus beat Windu?

In force power, yes. In Saber Mastery, I'd go there to say only Skywalker(Luke) could beat Mace.

Yeah, I've read the novelization and I remember the part where Yoda realized he won't win. That's all different from saying Sidious was just "toying" with him through the whole fight though. Yoda was one of about four people who Sidious actually feared, along with Mace Windu and Anakin and Luke Skywalker.

That wasn't from the novelization...

Not necessarily, Cadeus went on that trip in search of unique force powers, Sidious (per the Rule of Two) learned the accumulated knowledge of the Sith then killed his master and focused on his political schemes. As opposed to Caedus, who learned from many diverse force groups as well as Sith and Jedi).

And you think Yoda didn't know about a lot of them, back when Yoda took on Sidious he was over 800 years old...

Caedus was impressively calm, patient, and disciplined in almost all his fights (save for those with his family). I think his experience in battle is easily a match for Yoda's, even at Yoda's age. Jacen acted far older than he was all the time from the Vong invasion to his death.

Jacen acted imbalanced even when not fighting his family, as he fell deeper into the darkside, he grew more and more unhinged.

In the Inferno fight it was Ben's stabbing Caedus with a knife, that won Luke that fight and he didn't finish Caedus off for fear of falling to the Dark Side (thus it took Dark Side tactics to beat Caedus that time). I admit Luke could have killed Caedus but honestly, EU Luke would kick our little green friend to the curb so it's not fair to compare the two based on that.

I don't recall Luke being in serious trouble in that fight also if you'll recall Caedus couldn't even sense Luke coming. For all Caedus's vaunted power, he nearly got stabbed by his own apprentice through the back. Then he nearly got slaughtered by his apprentice's old man except for the fact he did get stabbed in the back during that fight.

In short, Caedus wins this. His Skywalker force potential, combined with his heightened and honed battle senses, his lack of pain, and his impressive array of unique force skills rivaled only by Luke himself, Caedus is just a bit too unorthodox and just powerful enough to defeat Yoda.

Caedus fed off of pain, he actually did feel it, that said he really wasn't in the same league as Luke Skywalker, considering how Luke was able to lead Caedus around by the nose toward the end. While Caedus had a set of tricks that Yoda might not know, Yoda probably knew a few tricks that Luke didn't even know about (Yoda didn't have time to teach Luke everything he knew).

On another note and one that is often overlooked, is Jacen/Caedus was an EXCEPTIONAL duelist with a saber, even being put on the level of Luke. Heck he fought Jaina with one arm and hole in his stomach and she still needed him to be distracted in order to kill him.

Caedus also was scared to death of Luke after that one fight and actually he never was on even level with Luke. I don't believe Caedus had ever fought someone the size of a small child that was a master lightsaber wielder either. I really don't see Caedus beating Yoda.

In force power, yes. In Saber Mastery, I'd go there to say only Skywalker(Luke) could beat Mace.

I would have to disagree with this statement - for starters I'd I reckon Yoda and Sidious are greater Saber

Masters than Windu - Dooku on par........

I would have to disagree with this statement - for starters I'd I reckon Yoda and Sidious are greater Saber

Masters than Windu - Dooku on par........

Windu beat Sidious, Sidious beat Yoda.

Windu beat Sidious, Sidious beat Yoda.

ABC logic does not always work - you know that...... Dooku - Anakin - Obi Wan shows this

Mace's win vs Sidious was Very Circumstantial in my opinion (and probably due a bit to Samuel L Jackson's influence) - and I am not sure if Sidious orchestrated it or not....

Also this was due to the Vaapad ability to siphon the Darkside from the oponent to empower the user.

The novellisation clearly states that this was the deepest that Mace had ever delved into Vaapad and he was only able to go this far because Sidious was so powerful in the Darkside - with this he was only able to keep up with Sidious - it was only when Sidious slowed (pretty much when he sensed Anakin was approaching) that Mace was able to get an advantage... Also this use of Vaapad is Clearly Force bolstering NOT pure Bladework - Also by that same token do you think that Sidious brought all his Force power to bear when fighting Windu? - we can clearly see that he can multitask with telekinetics for example (not to mention all the secret knowledge that he collected) so he could have tried all kind of tricks and distractions if he really wanted to.

Yoda was able to keep up with Sidious under his own power - against Yoda, Mace would not be able to use the power Siphon so I think that Yoda would be able to push to levels that Mace wouldn't be able to keep up with....

To me it from what I have seen it seems that Yoda is held as the pinnacle of jedi lightsaber excellence - from what I can see it is Mainly Mace fans that perpetrate that Mace is better.....

Mace himself stated that to beat Dooku he would have to beat Dooku quickly otherwise the longer the fight may have gone on then HE himself gives the advantage to Dooku...... (from which you can extrapolate that Vapaad is a Very overwhelming style designed to kill quickly, but not build for longievity)

Yoda was able to Outlast Dooku and force him to flee......

Put it this way - if I was going to learn technical lightsaber work Forms I through to form VII -I would rather learn from Sidious or Yoda than Mace - to me they seem more technically excellent .... Mace seems to be a very Effective fighter due to overwhelming aggression and the somewhat Deus Ex Machina of Vaapad Darkside Siphon......

I would go as far to say That I would Give Obi Wan and Anakin a chance against Mace as well.....

Obi Wan could theoretically outlast him haveing one of the best defences Ever and a keen tactical mind (especially without Mace being able to power siphon)

Anakin (so often underrated) could Face him head on with Djem So (Anakin being its Greatest ever exponent) which is said to be the most dominating lightsaber form - it could blunt Mace's momentum and without Obi Wan's defence it could cause him problems - also Anakin's use of the Darkside (if he does use it) comes in bursts and is not sustained (or as powerful) as Sidious so it it hard to know how much of a boost Mace coould get from it (it may even catch Mace by surprise) which Anakin chopping off his arm shows that he can be....

And before people start to say that I am crazy and that Anakin stands NO Chance - the DVD Commentary said that Anakin was a 9 in lightsaber combat just as Mace is - so whatever you think Anakin IS a peer of Mace and most definitely stands a chance vs him.... (In fact if it were up to me I would have have Anakin block Mace's strike vs Sidious - duel for a bit - kill Mace in a rush of blood which would make an even more convincing fall to the Darkside)