Rapter's Guide to Fighting Dirty Like a Boss

Table of Contents

1. Introduction and Author Notes

2. Pros and Cons

3. Talents and Builds

4. Spec Overview, the Basics, and What to Do

5. Strategies Against Other Classes

6. Final Note

1. Introduction and Author Notes

Hello everyone! I play a lot of different characters and one of them is a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger which is an absolute blast to play as. And so, I decided to write this guide out of a combination of boredom, requests from friends, to help people out when they play this spec, and because I haven't seen a specific guide for this spec yet. Note that this guide is mainly for PvP, though tactics may only need to be slightly adjusted for PvE. Also, I will assume that in this guide, you know the basics of playing a Gunslinger.

So far, I have played (to 50) a tank Vanguard, a Annihilation Marauder, a Concealment Operative, and a Pyrotech Mercenary, and of course, the Dirty Fighting Gunslinger. I PvP loads and also sometimes PvE. I don't claim to be the best, but I can certainly put up a very good fight and I'd like to think of myself as very adaptable. And perhaps with this guide, you can do the same and become a master ROFLslinger- *Cough* Ahem, I mean Gunslinger. If you plan to publish this somewhere else, give credit where credit is due. Anyways, now that that's done, read on.

- Captain Rapter Tangent

2. Pros and Cons

These are the pros and cons of the spec that I could think of so far when I play, not counting the usual basic Gunslinger pros and cons. There might be more that are not listed, but here are the ones that I know of.

Pros

- High damage, both sustained and burst

- Very mobile; allows you to kite

- DoTs take two skills to cleanse (Ex: In order to cleanse DoTs completely from a DF GS on my Operative when I want to escape, I have to use Cure and Evasion before disappearing into stealth)

- Reduced cooldowns on defensive skills like Dirty Kick and Leg Shot

Cons

- Careful Energy management; can burn away your energy bar if you're not watchful

- Requires both DoTs (Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot) to be on a target for Wounding Shots to hit hard

- No major improvements to AoE. You only get Shrap Bomb, and a reduced CD on Thermal Grenade

3. Talents and Builds

This is my current spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700hrbkrrGdGRZrZb.2

I wouldn't recommend getting Flash Powder as probably everyone in PvP has accuracy over 100% and it won't affect their accuracy very much unlike a Marauder's Obfuscate.

If you are wondering why I chose Dirty Trickster, it basically gives us another CC breaker which can come in handy in situations like being the Huttball carrier or if you're trying to run away from someone and they slow you down. Note however, it will only work against roots and slows.

You may not think Bravado is very important, but this spec is energy demanding so it's best to have as much energy as you can. I've played with and without Bravado and there is a noticeable difference. Having this makes it slightly easier to manage your energy.

Feel free to modify this spec. I can't really force you to play a certain way; only guide you. But for me, this spec maximizes damage all the while improving our defense.

4. Spec Overview and the Basics

This spec is primarily designed to burn down single targets. Your most vital skills are Wounding Shots, Vital Shot, Shrap Bomb, and Hemorrhaging Blast. Make sure they are in easy reach of pressing. Next skills your should prioritize are defensive skills like Dirty Kick, Leg Shot, etc. And third, the filler skills like Flourish Shot and Speed Shot.

Probably one of the most important things to note about this spec is you'll almost never need to take cover. On my own slinger, the only time I ever take cover is when I use Wounding Shots and Speed Shot (To ensure it does not get interrupted while the latter is only useable in cover), or to use Pulse Detonator. So in short, kite someone. Especially melee classes.

My rotation is something like this when I am able to wreak havoc uninterrupted:

Flourish Shot -> Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Wounding Shots -> Speed Shot -> Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Wounding Shots -> Sabotage Charge -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Flurry of Bolts -> Wounding Shots again when it is up -> Repeat from Beginning

However, it is not absolute. One person uses this rotation:

Vital shot -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Shrap Bomb -> Flourish Shot -> Sabotage Charge -> Wounding Shots -> Speed Shot

I recommend using Flurry of Bolts between each skill to allow energy to recharge. This spec gives Cool Head a 1m 30s cooldown, allowing you to use it more often, but you should still always use it only in emergencies. Use Quickdraw whenever possible as well. Hard hitting instant skill. Definitely handy.

Wounding Shots will basically be your most powerful attack and you will rely on it a lot to burn down targets. My reasons for using Speed Shot is filler; you never want to stop shooting and dealing damage. It does just as much damage as Aimed Shot, but you don't have to cast it. In fact, you will virtually never use cast skills with this spec.

Before hopping into fights, I suggest using Shield Probe. Every little defense helps. This spec also gives it a reduced cooldown so use it whenever. In a fight where you and your opponent are at extremely low health, this skill might very well save your life.

Concerning the DoTs, it is best to wait them out and let them expire into their weak forms before reapplying them, but I personally use them, perhaps by habit, when they near the end of their duration or as a filler.

Here is a list of skills that has had their cooldown reduced with this spec:

- Dirty Kick (Originally 45s, now 30s AND increases run speed by 30% for 4 seconds. Handy for getaways)

- Flash Grenade (Originally 1m, now 45s)

- Pulse Detonator (Originally 30s, now 25s)

- Thermal Grenade (Originally 6s, now 3s. Handy for interrupting people in situations like defusing bomb in Voidstar)

- Cool Head (Originally 2m, now 1m 30s)

- Escape (Originally 2m, now 1m 30s)

For stats, I mainly focus on Power and Surge. Wounding Shots tends to critical hit a lot since it is a volley of blaster fire and therefore, is composed of many different hits (I'd say about twelve total; four blasts that compose the duration, and the two extra hits for each second from your DoTs assuming Vital Shot and Shrap Bomb is on your target). You'll want those hits to hit harder. Don't neglect other stats though (Except Alacrity. You shouldn't be using any cast skills). Get critical chance to 35% when you can.

5. Strategies Against Other Classes

So now you know the skills. Now you have to learn to apply them against each opponent. Every class fights differently and you need to be ready and adapt instantly if you want to come out on top. These strategies assume you are alone against another target who is also alone and that target is trying to kill you and come from personal experience.

Against Marauders: Ah, Marauders. Probably the most lethal melee class in the game played properly. So, let's put ourselves into a situation. You're charging towards a door on Voidstar and all of a sudden, a Marauder Force Charges at you.

What I would do is Dirty Kick him immediately and gain some distance before I apply my DoTs and use Hemorrhaging Blast. Take cover and Hunker Down before using Wounding Shots and Speed Shot. Right now, the Marauder will most likely be running at you, trying to rip you to pieces. Remain in cover for now until he finally reaches you, then use Pulse Detonator.

Immediately get out of cover and gain distance while you use your rotation. Be sure to reapply DoTs accordingly, use Wounding Shots whenever you can, and if you need more distance, use Leg Shot and run. Use Surrender if the Marauder inflicts a slow on you and run. Do not attempt to fight this class head-on. Distance is the key to victory against Marauders.

If a Marauder manages to catch up to you, another cooldown you can use is Dodge. For three seconds, you will have a 100% defense against all of his attacks except for Force Scream.

Quickdraw when the Marauder reaches 30% health. If the Marauder uses Undying Rage, do not panic. Flash grenade him, even if your DoTs are on him. It slows him down for a split second. If Leg Shot is up, however, use that instead and run. Once it expires, finish him off.

For Operatives: Ah Operatives. My favorite class. Depending on which spec you fight, you may need to adjust tactics accordingly. For Concealment, if you get knocked flat on your face, immediately Dirty Kick when you get up and gain distance. Just like a Marauder, distance is the key to victory. Apply DoTs, keep your distance, use Wounding Shots whenever possible, etc. Most Operatives I fight don't know that a DF GS DoTs can only be cleansed with two skills, in their case, a combination of Cure and Evasion (Assuming they specced Evasion to cleanse all effects). A amusing sight is a Operative re-stealthing to get away only to pop out seconds later because they failed to properly cleanse.

Lethality Operatives can be trickier. You are practically fighting yourself, but they have the advantage of being able to Cure your DoTs. However, their main weakness is that the counterpart to Wounding Shots, Cull, has a range of only 10m. Make sure you keep a distance beyond that and you will prevail as Operatives have limited ranged abilities that can actually hit more than 10m.

For Mercenaries: Against Mercenaries, once again depending on the spec, you might need to adjust tactics. Arsenal is very laughable. Just use Distraction (Interrupt) against Tracer Missile before going pew pew on them. If you can't kill them by the time Tracer Missile is back up, try to LoS them, or, if you're feeling bold, run up and Dirty Kick them. You can freely fight this class head-on at close range if you know what you're doing. Do the usual; apply DoTs, use Wounding Shots whenever possible, etc. and with the added addition of using Distraction against Tracer Missile whenever possible.

Pyrotech is much trickier to deal with however. As their attacks are all ranged and since they aren't dependent on one skill, you'll have your work cut out for you. It will be a pure DPS race. Follow the usual procedure of applying DoTs and using Wounding Shots, but interrupt Power Shot whenever possible. Unload has a higher chance of granting a Rail Shot proc than Power Shot, but Power Shot can be casted repeatedly while Unload has a somewhat lengthy cooldown. That is all I can really say.

For Juggernauts: Same strategy against Maruaders. However, one thing to note is the 4s immunity to control effects after a Force Charge. Watch for that when fighting Juggernauts. The icon looks like a fist holding a chain. Dirty Kick them after it expires and do the usual.

For Snipers: Our snickering, evil, spy, counterparts.

Against Marksmanship snipers, the best thing to do is LoS them. Most skills in that spec require them to take cover and therefore, become sitting ducks. Use Dodge whenever they use Ambush and/or Series of Shots. As they are Ranged attacks, you will be protected from them and these are the skills that hit the hardest.

I unfortunately, do not have any experience in the Saboteur/Engineering spec. I therefore cannot provide any specific tips against this spec.

Oh boy... Lethality. For this, it mainly all comes down to who shoots first and player skill. Interrupt Cull as fast as you can to take less damage and LoS Cull if your interrupt is on cooldown. If the other player attempts to do this as well, Dirty Kick, Leg Shot, Pulse Detonator them, etc., before using Wounding Shots. Other than that, follow the usual procedures.

Against Assassins: Follow the same strategy you would for dealing with a Marauder; keep your distance. However, the most important skill you should watch out for against them is Force Shroud. It will cleanse all the DoTs off and give them Force/Tech immunity for a short time. When that happens, just run until it expires. Dirty Kick does not work while it is up. You can try and Leg Shot, but I don't know if it will work because I personally have not tried and observed it.

Against Sorcerers: The two DPS specs of Sorcerer basically carry the same quality of ranged damage. For Lightning, interrupt Thundering Blast if a Sorcerer attempts to cast it at you. If Affliction is on you and it gets casted, it is a guaranteed critical hit on you. Needless to say, it hurts.

For Madness, all I can really say is DPS faster than the other guy.

Against Powertechs: Like Marauders, the key to defeating Powertechs is distance as their main damage comes from close combat. You shouldn't have much problems against Shield Tech if you keep your distance as their main attack is Rocket Punch. In fact, as long as you keep your distance, the only real spec you have to watch out for is Pyrotech.

The absolute most important thing against Powertech Pyros, in my opinion, really is distance. The only way they can proc Rail Shot is with Flame Burst or Rocket Punch and those are both close range attacks. Maintain a distance of more than 30m and hopefully you shouldn't have too much problems.

Against Healers: Against Healers, you should follow your usual procedure of burning down and killing. However, have a handy finger ready to press the interrupt button accordingly. Here is the list of skills you should interrupt:

- Operatives: Kolto Injection

- Sorcerer: Dark Heal, Revivication (If trying to heal a large group of people)

- Mercenary: Rapid Scan

When fighting Operative Healers, save your Dirty Kick and use them when they reach 30% or so health so they can't use Surgical Probe to save themselves. Finish them quickly during this time.

For Mercenaries, interrupt only Rapid Scan. It is their only heal without a cooldown.

For Sorcerer, you might have the urge to interrupt Innervate as it is a casted heal, but it should be saved for Dark Heal as Dark Heal has no cooldown and has a 1.5 second cast time. Innervate possesses a 9 second cooldown (Assuming person does not have set bonus); plenty of time for you to do a lot of damage.

Final Note

I hope this guide was helpful in understanding the Dirty Fighting spec. Good luck out there, Captains.

- Captain Rapter Tangent

I knew I should have released my guide earlier but nevermind..

My rotation is something like this when I am able to wreak havoc uninterrupted:

 

Flourish Shot -> Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Wounding Shots -> Speed Shot -> Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Wounding Shots -> Sabotage Charge -> Hemorrhaging Blast -> Flurry of Bolts -> Wounding Shots again when it is up -> Repeat from Beginning

 

I recommend using Flurry of Bolts between each skill to allow energy to recharge. This spec gives Cool Head a 1m 30s cooldown, allowing you to use it more often, but you should still always use it only in emergencies. Use Quickdraw whenever possible as well. Hard hitting instant skill. Definitely handy.

 

I usually only use Hemorrhaging Blast right before I use Wounding Shots, because the extra bleed damage from Wounding Shots is increased from Hemorrhaging Blast by the 30% as said in the description. Wounding Shots will basically be your most powerful attack and you will rely on it a lot to burn down targets. My reasons for using Speed Shot is filler; you never want to stop shooting. It does just as much damage as Aimed Shot, but you don't have to cast it. In fact, I will virtually never use cast skills with this spec.

 

For stats, I mainly focus on Power and Surge. Wounding Shots tends to critical hit a lot since it is a volley of blaster fire and therefore, is composed of many different hits (I'd say about twelve total; four blasts that compose the duration, and the two extra hits for each second from your DoTs assuming Vital Shot and Shrap Bomb is on your target). You'll want those hits to hit harder. [/color]

1. Rotation:

vital shot (VS)- hemo blast (HB)- shrap bomb (SB)- flourish shot (FS)- sab charge (SC)- wounding shot (WS)- speed shot.

The correct order of hemo blast and flourish shot are important.

This way you can boost the FIRST ticks of VS and SB and you use FS full heal debuff as an addition to your burst.

Don't forget that its duration is much shorter than the armor debuff.

2. HB buffs WS:

Sorry to disappoint you but it simply does not.

It may also be interesting to mention that speed shot and WS actually deal about the same amount of dmg when two DOTs are applied.

3. Stats:

Power and Surge are always stats nice to have. But you forgot to mention that it's freakin essential for our energy management to have a high crit chance. DF specced players should at least aim for 35% without buff.

Just to complete it - avoid alacrity.

4. Spec:

This is how I play it

I'd never drop streetwise and independant anarchy. Cunning boosts total dmg and critchance.

Also independant anarchy is essential for a decent burst via SC and boosts shrap bombs damage by 15%!!

Feelin' Woozy isn't worth to be taken because 6 seconds are actually nothing.

5. Fighting vs Marauders.

I usually start with pulse detonator because it creates a larger gap between them and me than using dirty kick and running away.

Also you can avoid that they jump on you again cause you are already in cover.

So use pulse detonator, sab charge, DOTs of course and as soon as they move again leg shot, WS and only use dirty kick as a last resort.

You will need it when they activate their 99% shild and you can't use flash grenade because your DOTs are still ticking.

I knew I should have released my guide earlier but nevermind..

 

 

 

1. Rotation:

 

vital shot (VS)- hemo blast (HB)- shrap bomb (SB)- flourish shot (FS)- sab charge (SC)- wounding shot (WS)- speed shot.

The correct order of hemo blast and flourish shot are important.

This way you can boost the FIRST ticks of VS and SB and you use FS full heal debuff as an addition to your burst.

Don't forget that its duration is much shorter than the armor debuff.

 

2. HB buffs WS:

 

Sorry to disappoint you but it simply does not.

 

3. Stats:

 

Power and Surge are always stats nice to have. But you forgot to mention that it's freakin essential for our energy management to have a high crit chance. DF specced players should at least aim for 35% without buff.

Just to complete it - avoid alacrity.

 

4. Spec:

 

Will come back later to this one

Yeah I know the duration is shorter, but for me, nine seconds is enough time to do that big burst of damage. Also, I don't completely follow that rotation I posted, but it's what I try to follow. I sometimes throw things around.

You sure? I mainly assumed so since Wounding Shots consumes those 10 ticks of Hemorrhaging Blast.

Concerning stats, I'm not saying that you should neglect the other stats like crit chance. But yeah, definitely avoid alacrity.

Yeah I know the duration is shorter, but for me, nine seconds is enough time to do that big burst of damage. Also, I don't completely follow that rotation I posted, but it's what I try to follow. I sometimes throw things around.

 

You sure? I mainly assumed so since Wounding Shots consumes those 10 ticks of Hemorrhaging Blast.

 

Concerning stats, I'm not saying that you should neglect the other stats like crit chance. But yeah, definitely avoid alacrity.

Yes, HB does not affect WS in ANY way.

Regarding crit chance I just found it to be worth mentioned since it's a guide about DF and it's one of the most important stats for us.

Feel free to fill it in

I guess you should read the sticky, I have posted a lot of stuff about DF there which should provide some interesting information for you.

Ah another thing: DO NOT REAPPLY YOUR DOTs! before they ran out.

People tend to forget that, seriously. It's important for your energy management to watch your enemie's debuffs.

Do not reapply a DOT before it's nearly gone.

Yes, HB does not affect WS in ANY way.

Regarding crit chance I just found it to be worth mentioned since it's a guide about DF and it's one of the most important stats for us.

Feel free to fill it in

 

I guess you should read the sticky, I have posted a lot of stuff about DF there which should provide some interesting information for you.

 

Ah another thing: DO NOT REAPPLY YOUR DOTs! before they ran out.

People tend to forget that, seriously. It's important for your energy management to watch your enemie's debuffs.

Do not reapply a DOT before it's nearly gone.

Gotcha. Editted accordingly.

First of all, I played gunslinger since the beginning and when it comes to pve I'm fully bis and I also play pure dirty fighting (2/8/31). I love the class and spec and will keep playing it.

But i can't get past the issue i have with df and pvp (after they removed dots interrupting stuff). Energy = dmg, so more energy recovery = more dmg, i think we can all agree to that. Your main source of energy as dirty fighter is dots critting on enemies. So basically you get more energy the longer the target stays alive. And thats where i have problems with this. Your job as a dps is to bring targets down fast. And usually by latest, with your second wounding shots, your target should be dead (most of the time before that). Unless your shooting at someone being constantly healed, at which point you should be shooting the healer anyway (2 or more healers chain-healing eachother is exception).

I know df can bring high dmg numbers and get regularly 500-600k dmg and whatnot on a normal wz. But when it comes to objective based play (you know, the one with teamwork where you try and cap objectives and stuff like that). I cant think of a reason why play df gs. You could argue that you can hit 3 targets with shrap bomb and get energy from those other 2, but its not always an option. It's not like you have people lining up for each of your shrap cd's to comfortably hit them all.

My point is basically if you keep killing targets fast enough (which you should), you will run out of energy.

Can someone please give me a reasonable explanation if and why I'm wrong.

First of all, I played gunslinger since the beginning and when it comes to pve I'm fully bis and I also play pure dirty fighting (2/8/31). I love the class and spec and will keep playing it.

 

But i can't get past the issue i have with df and pvp (after they removed dots interrupting stuff). Energy = dmg, so more energy recovery = more dmg, i think we can all agree to that. Your main source of energy as dirty fighter is dots critting on enemies. So basically you get more energy the longer the target stays alive. And thats where i have problems with this. Your job as a dps is to bring targets down fast. And usually by latest, with your second wounding shots, your target should be dead (most of the time before that). Unless your shooting at someone being constantly healed, at which point you should be shooting the healer anyway (2 or more healers chain-healing eachother is exception).

 

I know df can bring high dmg numbers and get regularly 500-600k dmg and whatnot on a normal wz. But when it comes to objective based play (you know, the one with teamwork where you try and cap objectives and stuff like that). I cant think of a reason why play df gs. You could argue that you can hit 3 targets with shrap bomb and get energy from those other 2, but its not always an option. It's not like you have people lining up for each of your shrap cd's to comfortably hit them all.

 

My point is basically if you keep killing targets fast enough (which you should), you will run out of energy.

 

Can someone please give me a reasonable explanation if and why I'm wrong.

Main source of energy is supposed to be your auto energy regeneration, not the DoT crits which is why I try to keep as energy conservative and as much energy as I can. Also, do you use Flurry of Bolts? If not, well... Better start using it between skills, especially in PvE where sustained DPS is more important. It would help if I knew your rotation.

Main source of energy is supposed to be your auto energy regeneration, not the DoT crits...

Agreed.

If we assume:

• 38% tech crit chance
  
• 12% added crit chance on DoTs from the Black Market Equipment skill
  
• 100% uptime on Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot
  
• Use of Wounding Shots every 9.0s

Then the energy regen from Fighting Spirit is ~1.4 per second, on average. With higher or lower DoT crit chance, it scales proportionally.

This energy regeneration is lower than even the lowest passive energy bracket. I hope we're spending relatively little time in the lowest bracket. Of course, in a chaotic environment such as PvP, it is a poor assumption that both DoTs will have 100% uptime and that WS will be used on cooldown.

It's subjective whether we call ~20% of total energy regen a "large part", but I don't think it's reasonable to call it our "main source".

Well when I began my career as DF Slinger I felt the same about ernergy but actually it's not that hard.

I do have 42% crit now +12% = 54% crit chance. This provides me alot of crits and energy.

It's true that we are trying to melt down a target afap but my DOTs are never ticking on only one target.

Like you said, shrap bomb is an aoe skill and it's essential to hit multiple targets.

Normally I don't even use it on a single one if it's not absolutely necessary.

It's always possible to hit more than one, they don't have to line up for that^^

Vital shot is also added randomly to weaken the enemy team and keep up my energy.

Still don't forget Flurry Of Bolts which should be added between your skills.

If you really have to freakin destroy a target then just use whatever you have.

It's situational but since we are focussed in ranked wzs just blow your skills and die --> full energy!

(Ofc this is not an option when defneding a node/door)

It's hard to make this up in theory... it just works^^

The reason why I prefer DF is the internal dmg and the ability to deal damage when not even there.

It's a nice hit and run gameplay which is not cover binded and that normally is like holding up a sign: "HERE PLEASE KILL ME"

So yea, no cover - no dead^^

Yes, HB does not affect WS in ANY way.

Regarding crit chance I just found it to be worth mentioned since it's a guide about DF and it's one of the most important stats for us.

Feel free to fill it in

 

I guess you should read the sticky, I have posted a lot of stuff about DF there which should provide some interesting information for you.

 

Ah another thing: DO NOT REAPPLY YOUR DOTs! before they ran out.

People tend to forget that, seriously. It's important for your energy management to watch your enemie's debuffs.

Do not reapply a DOT before it's nearly gone.

If its not affecting wounding blast at all I'd report that as a pretty major bug. Just a quick few tests on my sniper and the mirror versions definitely do. I see a definite increase in the internal damage ticks of cull when weakening blast is up and the damage ticks use up the charges.

Regarding pve, you rarely need to use flurry of bolts, mostly as a filler when switching positions (and dots are already up). It only means you are lacking either crit rate, are really unlucky with them or are messing something up (usually the last one). Only place when I actually feel the need for it, is during hm kephess fights, when recovering from burn phases. Then you add in couple of those to get your energy level back up.

Also other thing i completely forgot to bring up, is target switching. You need to apply at minimum 2 skills before you start doing burst (ideally 4) every time you switch to a new target.

Vital shot is kinda expensive skill to apply randomly. And you think you're "applying pressure". But having been on the other end of that I can say that 2200 dmg over 18 seconds (taken from my tooltip in pve gear, so lets say ~3300 with crits) is not that noticeable. Thats a really long time in pvp. Which is pretty much completely undone with any aoe heal. You're better off doing 2x flurry of bolts for pretty much the same dmg without spending 20 energy.

Being out of cover is kinda double-edged sword. Makes you an easy target for pulls and leaps.

I can understand the subjective point of enjoying the style of gameplay and for those glorius seconds when you have applied all prerequisites and you can do wounding shots, sab charge, speed shot in a row, it feels fantastic. But after that, your target is dead and you are low on energy.

Long story short: my issues with pvp df is the long build-up time and noticeable recovery time after each kill.

VS deals far more than just 2200 dmg^^ but I'm not talkin about pressure.

It's just that little itching thing on the enemie's asses you know?^^

Regarding WS + HB. Use HB and then WS without any DOTs. HB charges are not consumed as intended.

It does exactly what the description sais.

Since 1.3 came out I'm having problems choosing proper targets. Before that I'd usually shoot at whatever's healing, and get them down one by one. Now they removed my adrenal, and added defensive adrenal for the healers. And in rankeds I'm usually facing two healers helping each other (3 is also not unheard of). So I start dumping my rotation on them, but for the whole match I can get as low as 4-5 kills... what the heck? I do use Flourish, and I interrupt and CC on cooldown.

What are your ideas? Should we now even bother focusing healers? It seems like without coordinated focus fire it's kinda useless.

Since 1.3 came out I'm having problems choosing proper targets. Before that I'd usually shoot at whatever's healing, and get them down one by one. Now they removed my adrenal, and added defensive adrenal for the healers. And in rankeds I'm usually facing two healers helping each other (3 is also not unheard of). So I start dumping my rotation on them, but for the whole match I can get as low as 4-5 kills... what the heck? I do use Flourish, and I interrupt and CC on cooldown.

 

What are your ideas? Should we now even bother focusing healers? It seems like without coordinated focus fire it's kinda useless.

If you're the only one shooting at healers, it can be tough to take them down depending on how skilled they are, especially in ranked where most of the skilled people are. Coordinate with your teammates to take them down one at a time.

But, there is also the fact that even if you can't take them down, you CAN put pressure on them and force them to focus on healing themselves to stay alive. Also, when you use your interrupt, is it on the skills that I listed?

I see a definite increase in the internal damage ticks of cull when weakening blast is up and the damage ticks use up the charges.

This is correct, HB won't affect the white damage portion of wounding shots because it's not internal, it does however boost the Elemental ticks that are triggered alongside Wounding shots.

This is correct, HB won't affect the white damage portion of wounding shots because it's not internal, it does however boost the Elemental ticks that are triggered alongside Wounding shots.

HB only affects vital shot and shrap bombs ticks. with or without WS, it doesn't matter.

Just so no one gets confused - HEMO BLAST DOES NOT AFFECT WOUNDING SHOTS AT ALL.

It does exactly what the description sais, buffing the damage of the following bleeding effects.

Only VS and SB cause bleeding effects, noithing else.

Just saying this again because you bring up WS again in the same sentence with HB tho it's meaning shoudl be clear.

HB only affects vital shot and shrap bombs ticks. with or without WS, it doesn't matter.

Just so no one gets confused - HEMO BLAST DOES NOT AFFECT WOUNDING SHOTS AT ALL.

Ah, you seem to be confused somewhat.

Allow me to clarify what we're discussing: Wounding shots white damage is not affected by HB, However, when you have your Bleeds pre-applied to a target and use HB before Wounding shots the additional bleed damage (The target hemorrhages for an additional xxx internal damage) is affected, watch the debuff on the target and you'll see HB ticks in time with each wave of wounding shots.

By design, it allows you to up your burst damage as you need it.

Ah, you seem to be confused somewhat.

 

Allow me to clarify what we're discussing: Wounding shots white damage is not affected by HB, However, when you have your Bleeds pre-applied to a target and use HB before Wounding shots the additional bleed damage (The target hemorrhages for an additional xxx internal damage) is affected, watch the debuff on the target and you'll see HB ticks in time with each wave of wounding shots.

 

By design, it allows you to up your burst damage as you need it.

grrr yes, true. But still this has nothing to do with WS.

Those are two different things, buffed DOT ticks and WS.

HB charges are consumed with or without WS because WS itself is not affected by HB. duh.

grrr yes, true. But still this has nothing to do with WS.

Those are two different things, buffed DOT ticks and WS.

HB charges are consumed with or without WS because WS itself is not affected by HB. duh.

Wounding shots has a Internal damage component, This internal damage component is only triggered with the correct set-up (applying your bleeds beforehand), Once those bleeds are in place you can take advantage of additional internal damage provided via Wounding shots, HB will boost the internal damage supplied by wounding shots.

HB only affects vital shot and shrap bombs ticks.

..and Wounding Shots Internal ticks triggered with each wave,

To say that HB will not affect Wounding shots is false, the only way HB would not affect Wounding shots would be in the case of an incorrect rotation.

Wounding shots has a Internal damage component, This internal damage component is only triggered with the correct set-up (applying your bleeds beforehand), Once those bleeds are in place you can take advantage of additional internal damage provided via Wounding shots, HB will boost the internal damage supplied by wounding shots.

 

To say that HB will not affect Wounding shots is false, the only way HB would not affect Wounding shots would be in the case of an incorrect rotation.

Ah now I got what you are up to... but still i'm sorry to disappoint you.

Hard for me to explain 'cause I'm not a native english speaker.

Wounding shots without applied DOTs is weak because it only deals a vertain amount of weapon damage.

When DOTs are applied there is an additional internal damage per DOT on the target.

However this internal damage is STATIC. Let's say WS gets additional 200 dmg per dot.

So with VS and SB pre applied it deals (just imaginary numbers) 500 weapon damage + 200 + 200.

Hemo Blast does not affect those 200 AT ALL.

..and Wounding Shots Internal ticks triggered with each wave,

therefore no, it does not. It's just like the description of Hemo Blast sais: increases damage of the next BLEEDING EFFECTS.

This additional internal damage of wounding shots are no bleeding effects, just an addition of elemental damage other than normal weapon damage. Nothing else.

:/ If no one has any objections I'd say we finish this discussion and then I'll report our posts so they get deleted.

I don't wanna take that much space from the original thread just to keep things clean.

 

Wounding shots without applied DOTs is weak because it only deals a vertain amount of weapon damage.

When DOTs are applied there is an additional internal damage per DOT on the target.

However this internal damage is STATIC. Let's say WS gets additional 200 dmg per dot.

So with VS and SB pre applied it deals (just imaginary numbers) 500 weapon damage + 200 + 200.

 

Hemo Blast does not affect those 200 AT ALL.

No, this is what I'm explaining to you, the Additional internal damage that is provided by Wounding shots is affected by HB which is why you'll see HB count down with each wave of Wounding shots.

Try it out on a Training dummy, enable combat logging, it's always been this way.

just an addition of elemental damage other than normal weapon damage. Nothing else.

I'm afraid it's not elemental damage, It's Internal damage, read the tooltip.

forget it, you are right.

Use shrap bomb on a target + hemo blast and see how it consumes a charge every 3 sec.

Use WS as addition and its consuming 4 charges in 3 secs.

Sorry, I never tested it with shrap bomb before, vital shot's double ticks gave me a wrong result...

However I'm interested in what gives the bigger dmg boost.

Increased DOT ticks or increased interntal dmg from WS.

Maybe it's better to use HB after WS so Ws doesn't steal charges that are consumed by the DOTs otherwise.

Thoughts on that?

Edit: I already reported our posts #15 - #21 so they get deleted.

forget it, you are right.

 

<snip>

 

Maybe it's better to use HB after WS so Ws doesn't steal charges that are consumed by the DOTs otherwise.

Thoughts on that?

 

No worries, we're on the same page now anyway

I find that it's more of a situational thing, if you're trying to burst someone down then I go with HB just before Wounding shots.

I have just re-specced to DF. I have been reading the variosu posts, and got a bit confised in terms of the timing of Hem and WS.

What is the best rotation for a DF full spec....PvE????

I have just re-specced to DF. I have been reading the variosu posts, and got a bit confised in terms of the timing of Hem and WS.

What is the best rotation for a DF full spec....PvE????

I don't play PVE but I think there shouldnt be much of a difference.

Vital Shot - Hemo Blast - Shrap Bomb - Sab Charge - Flourish Shot - Wounding Shots - Speed Shot ...

This is the way to get the highest burst DF is capable of.

If you need to maintain your energy like in boss fights I'd suggest to go like this:

Vital Shot - Flurry of Bolts (FoB) - Shrap Bomb - FoB - Flourish Shot - Hemo Blast - FoB - Wounding Shots - Sab Charge - FoB .....

I can only theorycrafting here 'cause like I said before, I'm not a PVE player.

You don't need to use Speed Shot at all. You have enough time and energy to use Wounding Shots and Hemo Blast as soon as they get off cool down.

Make sure to reapply your DOTs only when they are almost out so you don't waste energy.

TL : DR

DOTs when they run out - Hemo, Wounding Shots, Sab Charge whenever they are ready and fill in FoB to keep your energy high.

Best regards