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Sin/Shadow 6.0 Changes


BurningGrim

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So ill just kick it off and get to the point.

Shadow Changes for 6.0 Are laughable... honestly I have yet to actually meet a Shadow/sin main who Pvps and has read the changes being made and actually agreed with them

 

We are glad that changes are being made however for those i do speak for, my friends and myself. you guys are making the wrong changes.

 

I Know SWTOR is not a PVP game however it does Have PVP in it, and i myself like many other people have been pvping since ranked season 1. back when expertise was a thing. back when Shadow could actually run into a cluster of opponents and be able to get through maybe 6abilities before it was forced on the defensive AKA stealth or Phase walk

Now it was OP and changes were made, you guys took phase walk and it did hurt though we kept going, you lowered our damage and gave us phantom stride. it hurt yet we still kept going. but to add insult to injury or pour salt on a open wound you gave Phase walk to a Sorc/sage... Which many of us shadow players still find annoying. You giving a range class MORE range....and NOT ONLY THAT....you are also giving it to a Slinger and sniper? Theee Most Overpowered classes in the game. and expect Shadows and Sins to combat that when we have no self sustain and now very little to no damage, when they have heals. Rolls, AOEs and now a Phase walk and some of the most Overpowered combat utilities this game as to offer.

 

And that is just 1 of the classes with a very minor change. however you have Guardians and Juggs getting faster cool downs on there Focused defense/enranged defense. getting 2 leaps and being immune to stuns, multiple Damage reduction buffs.

and various other changes. and tie that in with Sorcs with their multiple AOEs

Free casting and amazing force/energy sustain for lightening spec, force bubble that can heal with the correct utility and if you put it with another utility it will also flash and stun the opponant. with 2 other stuns and phase walk + Alacrity buff multiple heals.

As for the Dot spec, it slows opponants, spreads dots. increased damage by 10% and various other changes that reduce cooldowns of its main DoTs and so on....

 

Whilst you expect a Shadow/sin with various Minor changes to actually Combat that?

To be able to do more damage and sustain when it has very very awkward and bad defenses No self healing capabilities and a very fragile stealth that Literally every class in the game can get you out off.... with either a lucky AOE or a well placed AOE or 3 deppending on the class

 

So lets discuss the changes we know off so far that sin/shadow has so far.

Assassin - Shrouding Guard – Force Shroud also applies to any ally you are guarding. = Whoopsie F***ing DO...useless.

Reckless Shadow – Recklessness increases your Force regeneration greatly for a short time. - Again Useless infil/deception has great force management and Hatred is to broken to be actually used.

Multitrap – Mind Trap can now affect up to two targets at once. - USELESS....

Shadow Step – Phantom Stride now has 2 ability charges. <--- Yea ok sure its meh at best

 

 

Darkness

Shadow Shroud – Using Force Shroud while Dark Ward is active consumes it, but extends the duration of Force Shroud by a quarter of a second for each Dark Ward stack consumed. - Meh not great.

Shadow Ward – Dark Ward gains 5 additional stacks and Phantom Stride resets its cooldown. - Phantom stride? really? now your just trying to make a glitched ability seem useful.

Redirected Wrath – Wither generates Redirected Wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds. - 2.5? thats it...thats allll you can give? for 2.5% everyone should go guard/jugg then get a better offer then a 2.5% LOL

 

 

Deception

Discharging Voltage – Severing Slash causes your next Discharge to arc to multiple targets. - Pointless given how Deception is a 1v1 Burst spec...with NO DAMAGE...

Burning Bolts – When Reaping Strike hits, it causes its target to burn. - OHHH a DoT just what we need..... LOL

High Voltage – Using Voltaic Slash and Lacerate with 2 stacks of Voltage deals additional damage and finishes the cooldown of Ball Lightning. You assume we will live long enough to get 2 stacks of voltage before we are destroyed.... ITS PVE at best. lol

 

 

Hatred

Hungering Blade – Critically hitting with Leeching Strike resets its cooldown and increases the critical chance of the next Leeching Strike. Stacks up to 3 times. - Sounds decent and fun. might help fix the Dot

Exhaustion Field – Death Field does 10% more damage to all targets, additional damage to Force Slowed targets, and spreads Force Slow’s effects. - Again with the SLOWS...its a shadow its a MELEE class.....THEY DONT NEED SLOWS..... as your going to be within 1-6 meter distance as thats the range of shadow lol

Thrashing Terror – Creeping Terror has a 10% chance to tick an additional time whenever Thrash deals damage. - Useless...really is... 10% to tick an additional time when thrash deals damage.... i had to repeat that because Thrash? IS TRASH.

 

I would truly Be surprised if anyone does actually still stick with Shadow/sin for PVP After 6.0 its useless and its getting no love from the Devs compared to the rest.

 

https://vulkk.com/2019/06/21/swtor-6-0-pts-new-inquisitor-ability-set-bonuses-and-tactical-items/

https://vulkk.com/2019/07/05/swtor-6-0-new-juggernaut-ability-set-bonuses-and-tactical-items/

 

I Just love it when it says Bioware did not disapoint... nah they choked out harder then imperial Admiral. In the star wars movie when they failed Darth Vader.

Bioware you have "Failed me for the last time."

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You wrong at one thing. IT'S GARBAGE FOR PVE TOO! IF THIS CLASS STAYS AT IT FOR DPS IT'S TRASH!!!

EVEN MARA AND JUGGS GETTING MORE OP LACERATE WITH MORE POWER FULL DOTS

So for 6.0 it's not only garbage for pvp, ITS MORE GARBAGE FOR PVE! I MEAN SEVERING SLASH? WHERE I'M GONNA USE SEVERİNG SLASH! We already have a slow why bother with another one!!

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I sincerely hope that when everyone gets to experience 6.0 deception/infiltration, they simply stop playing their toons. I think that's the only thing that's going to make any sort of dent in Dev thinking....to see the class simply stop being used.

 

Use your alts. If you want melee lightsabers, go with the marauder, for sure. Want mega OP DPS nonsense, get a sniper with all their current crap plus the phase walk they stole from deception then gave to sorcs, then said, heck, we'll piss assassins off even more and give their stolen ability to the class that can roll away anyway.

 

One thing is for sure. I sure don't have any desire to be around in 6.0 on a class that has seen nothing but the short end of the stick for over 2 years.

Edited by Kirtastropohe
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First thing they need to do is remove the 2 stuns from most of the other classes.

 

Watching classes like jugg, mara, etc chain stun just makes me laugh.

 

Um, okay and having 3 stuns (because you seem to call mezzes stuns as well) + a stealth stun on Deception is fine?

 

Mara has one hard stun and one mezz (soft stun) - that's it.

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Hmm

Redirected Wrath – Wither generates Redirected Wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds.

 

Damn, this is will be unkillable tank, trust me. Easy hold of 5-7 enemies as old good times.

But you have to use tank gear of coz, not current fashion all-dps.

 

I have such on my shadow - all balanced carefully, 2 dps items only. Wipes desception sin 1 vs 1. Can hold 3-4 dds.

With such ability will be able hold 5-7 dds.

 

I think having that, i can remove mastery which do "30% damage reduction when stunned" and use for something to boost dps of tank. I like it.

Edited by alexzk
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Oh god I can't believe I read this tripe.

1) Phantom Stride is better than Leap especially against Snipers in Cover.

2) Three Stuns that are useful in all different types of gameplay.

3) Self heals.

4) Stealth out of combat.

5) Stealth out of combat heals.

 

Them 5 things are good and especially in the right hands, Darkness is superior to Immortal if used correctly. A lot of people aren't skilled enough to use Darkness and prefer a trimmed down Tank e.g. Pulling a healer out their comfort zone to rolling them.

 

Instead of asking for nerfs, try playing these specs you're struggling against and find their weakness and use that to your advantage.

 

Lastly if you truly think Assassin isn't effective then move on, I still have a Fury main who I made at launch and never changed his spec, I remember being laughed at about how bad this spec was after the whole "Smash Monkey" stuff and I done fine. Ask for a buff with a true detailing on why instead of "Buff my class, Nerf theirs." exactly what I asked for when Fury wasn't performing well and they buffed it.

 

Side note: I would ask for an extra ability based on movement like a Dash with an animation like that from Darth Maul in Dice Battlefront 2, So you could close or increase the gap similar to that of Mad Dash.

Edited by DarthSealth
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Hmm

Redirected Wrath – Wither generates Redirected Wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds.

 

Damn, this is will be unkillable tank, trust me. Easy hold of 5-7 enemies as old good times.

But you have to use tank gear of coz, not current fashion all-dps.

 

I have such on my shadow - all balanced carefully, 2 dps items only. Wipes desception sin 1 vs 1. Can hold 3-4 dds.

With such ability will be able hold 5-7 dds.

 

I think having that, i can remove mastery which do "30% damage reduction when stunned" and use for something to boost dps of tank. I like it.

 

 

 

You understand that tanking a deception sin in a 1v1 isn't a hard thing to do right? given how bad of a spec it actually is..... specially given an experienced shadow/assassin tank is almost unstoppable lol...

This is for 6.0 and the changes they are making to every class but shadows...

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Oh god I can't believe I read this tripe.

1) Phantom Stride is better than Leap especially against Snipers in Cover.

2) Three Stuns that are useful in all different types of gameplay.

3) Self heals.

4) Stealth out of combat.

5) Stealth out of combat heals.

 

Them 5 things are good and especially in the right hands, Darkness is superior to Immortal if used correctly. A lot of people aren't skilled enough to use Darkness and prefer a trimmed down Tank e.g. Pulling a healer out their comfort zone to rolling them.

 

Instead of asking for nerfs, try playing these specs you're struggling against and find their weakness and use that to your advantage.

 

Lastly if you truly think Assassin isn't effective then move on, I still have a Fury main who I made at launch and never changed his spec, I remember being laughed at about how bad this spec was after the whole "Smash Monkey" stuff and I done fine. Ask for a buff with a true detailing on why instead of "Buff my class, Nerf theirs." exactly what I asked for when Fury wasn't performing well and they buffed it.

 

Side note: I would ask for an extra ability based on movement like a Dash with an animation like that from Darth Maul in Dice Battlefront 2, So you could close or increase the gap similar to that of Mad Dash.

 

 

First off I wasn't asking for a nerf, I suggest you re-read it again.

second thing, this is for the changes they are making. not how it is currently.... so I again suggest you re-read it.

third thing, if you bothered to click the links and read through everything, jugs get, guardians get and sorcs. then read what shadows get you will understand.... that their is whole new playing field that the game devs arnt paying attention too.... Smash monkey never went away, maras/sents have always be strong. in the right situations... no matter how good you are as a shadow/sin you will. 9/10 struggle to beat any other class in the game.. unless your A on darth malgus fighting some mug whose played the game for like 3 days and used a token. our damage is less, our damage reduction is less. phantom stride spends more time glitching, then working. Lacerate/whirling blow does more damage then most of your Rotation, and backstab crits probably around 40% of the time.

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First off I wasn't asking for a nerf, I suggest you re-read it again.

 

You're comparing class/specs meaning you're using figures on your bias opinion that isn't impartial to rectify an outcome that benefits you the user as per se.

 

second thing, this is for the changes they are making. not how it is currently.... so I again suggest you re-read it.

 

Let me reiterate the following finds that nothing is final, however when the final product is on the showcase than we will see however what I had stated does not change indefinitely as these perks the Assassin class has is the only class that has the unique perks in the realm of Tanking. However you can not compare Assassins directly alike to that of a Marauder, a Juggernaut or a Sorcerer. The closest in comparison would be that of an Operative however there is complications again.

 

third thing, if you bothered to click the links and read through everything, jugs get, guardians get and sorcs. then read what shadows get you will understand.... that their is whole new playing field that the game devs arnt paying attention too....

 

You wrote the same argument twice without acknowledging that what we have seen isn't final. However what I did read I found interesting for me, I liked the extra components to Hatred and Darkness but I play them more than Deception however I found Fury to receive not a lot in terms of eye catching. Granted Juggernauts and Sorcerers did seem to get catered for but at the same time I can not see anything ground breaking, Numbers on PTS are not Final.

 

 

 

Smash monkey never went away,

 

Smash Monkey went away when our spec was changed, however it didn't completely go waist side if anything got moved to Vengeance.

 

maras/sents have always be strong. in the right situations... no matter how good you are as a shadow/sin you will. 9/10 struggle to beat any other class in the game.. unless your A on darth malgus fighting some mug whose played the game for like 3 days and used a token. our damage is less, our damage reduction is less. phantom stride spends more time glitching, then working. Lacerate/whirling blow does more damage then most of your Rotation, and backstab crits probably around 40% of the time.

 

Not for a complete DPS spec what have you been smoking? heck in 5.0 Deception was the Meta, 4.0 Mercs was the Meta, 3.0 Sorcerer was the Meta. When Marauders were Meta that was when they still had the skill tree system. Back when Fury was still called Rage. However Juggernaut Rage was part of that Meta as well making it a shared Meta.

Although lets talk experience on the matter that I am on Darth Malgus? Right like that draws any assumptions you can't even comment on what the Assassin class does have which I made a reply directly stating, also I forgot Mindtrap how great of an Ability this is. But let me go into further detail, You can not compare it to a DPS class if it is a hybrid class that shares abilities from that of it's counterpart, Marauder is a DPS class through and through, You can't compare accurately to Juggernauts or Sorcerers since they haven't got the exact mobility nor once they engage can they disengage. The closest comparison is an Operative which still you can not compare directly to, but what the Assassin class has got to offer is far more useful tool's especially in PvP every WZ from Voidstar to Huttball as well as Ranked. In PvP if you had known isn't about 1v1's so you must be playing a different game to me or you're just duelling your friends. But yes I am indeed a bad player.

Edited by DarthSealth
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Marauder only has one stun, whaaaat are you talking about

 

Exactly one hard stun and one mezz, our greatest stun in my opinion is tied behind the Utility Tree (Maiming Reach) which makes Crippling Slash a 3 second stun but usable every 10 seconds.

 

However they've mezzes, stuns basically the full works and yet they're still complaining?

 

Mindtrap - Mezz.

Whirlwind - Mezz.

Spike - Short duration stun.

Electrocute - Longer duration stun.

Low Slash - Short duration stun.

 

Utility - Hand of Darkness - Grants a stun effect to that Low Slash, Force Pull and Eradicate.

 

Darkness crumbles most when Stuns are in play, I always get the healer mob handed, Pull with stun out of their safe space, Spike is like a 15 seconds CD, it's the best class for crowd control and still will be in 6.0.

Edited by DarthSealth
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Putting the same skills like stuns on every class turns the classes into generic trash.

 

They have taken many of the key abilities that used to be class specific and placed them on every class so now practically every class has stuns, force charges, heals, short term iwin dcd's, movement buffs and debuffs, etc.

 

 

Stuns belong on stun classes only.

 

Charges belong on warrior type classes.

 

Heals on heal classes.

 

Etc Etc Etc

 

Mara and most of the other classes should not be CC'ing. A 2 second stun on their charge is reasonable. An Aoe CC is stupid.

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Putting the same skills like stuns on every class turns the classes into generic trash.

 

Nope that is an awful idea, CC wise Assassin holds the keys. Which I stated is brilliant for me.

 

 

They have taken many of the key abilities that used to be class specific and placed them on every class so now practically every class has stuns, force charges, heals, short term iwin dcd's, movement buffs and debuffs, etc.

 

No, everyone has lost key abilities through the years I remember losing Disable Droid. So no you're not the only class to lose abilities nor was you the only ones to have stuns or mezzes, I remember Beta when Marauders had Force Push. CC's was never class specific and will never be since they're to control the crowd around you.

 

 

Stuns belong on stun classes only.

 

Charges belong on warrior type classes.

 

Heals on heal classes.

 

There isn't a book that states what is and isn't a stun class, whilst this system was put in place to allow Hybrids and the likes of shared base classes that is traditional, we have already seen enough gutting of classes and specs without needing more.

 

 

Mara and most of the other classes should not be CC'ing. A 2 second stun on their charge is reasonable. An Aoe CC is stupid.

 

No, as each and every class in the game there isn't a charter on who should be doing what to suit your needs. The game was built around this system called resolve, hard stuns, snare and mezzes. Stuns do not break on combat, Mezzes do. So if you're finding the AOE CC that is a Mez stupid than you don't know what is stupid when it comes to CC's e.g. Ranged CC's shouldn't be a thing IMO, You should have to sacrifice position to stun someone. But they're in the game and Assassin's have a Ranged CC called (Whirlwind usable at 30m) since they're a Melee class it doesn't make any sense that's what I call stupidity.

Edited by DarthSealth
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As a mostly Hatred player, I'm rather intrugued by the idea of spreading Force Slow with DF, if it synergizes with the utilities that buff FS, and if one adds in the 30% slow from lacerate utility it sounds like hell for melee. Since Hatred is, to respectfully contradict the OP, a mid-close range hit & run spec that requires some form of kiting owing to it's squishiness compared to Deception, these new additions might well lead to hard utility choices. Speaking in PvP terms of course. Edited by mothbanquet
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Exactly one hard stun and one mezz, our greatest stun in my opinion is tied behind the Utility Tree (Maiming Reach) which makes Crippling Slash a 3 second stun but usable every 10 seconds.

 

However they've mezzes, stuns basically the full works and yet they're still complaining?

 

Mindtrap - Mezz.

Whirlwind - Mezz.

Spike - Short duration stun.

Electrocute - Longer duration stun.

Low Slash - Short duration stun.

 

Utility - Hand of Darkness - Grants a stun effect to that Low Slash, Force Pull and Eradicate.

 

Darkness crumbles most when Stuns are in play, I always get the healer mob handed, Pull with stun out of their safe space, Spike is like a 15 seconds CD, it's the best class for crowd control and still will be in 6.0.

 

Low slash is not a stun. It is a mezz. The utility only adds a root effect after the mezz effect wears off.

 

If you do not know the difference between a stun, a mezz or what a root is, then you honestly should rethink about talking about gameplay at all. Not know the basics is a big red flag.

 

Also, i must say i do not remember at any time when deception/infiltration was the meta. We had Balance/madness (the dot spec) as meta in season 3, but never infiltration/deception.

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Low slash is not a stun. It is a mezz. The utility only adds a root effect after the mezz effect wears off.

 

If you do not know the difference between a stun, a mezz or what a root is, then you honestly should rethink about talking about gameplay at all. Not know the basics is a big red flag.

 

Also, i must say i do not remember at any time when deception/infiltration was the meta. We had Balance/madness (the dot spec) as meta in season 3, but never infiltration/deception.

 

Mezz is a stun that breaks with damage, A root is a stun or stopping action that resembles being rooted to the ground, a snare is a slow. Yes you're right I was suppose to say snare. Deception was the Meta because of double stance and varying other components that led to a huge nerf Deception mains cried about for months.

 

Yes I just realised is a mezz, however I am wrong indeed but I don't use Deception which I have stated and I am sure it was bugged because it never use to break.

Edited by DarthSealth
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Mezz is a stun that breaks with damage, A root is a stun or stopping action that resembles being rooted to the ground, a snare is a slow. Yes you're right I was suppose to say snare. Deception was the Meta because of double stance and varying other components that led to a huge nerf Deception mains cried about for months.

 

Yes I just realised is a mezz, however I am wrong indeed but I don't use Deception which I have stated and I am sure it was bugged because it never use to break.

 

A root is not a stun as it does not stop you from attacking/using defensives. Playing deception/infiltration in tank stance was never meta and existed way before 5.0. I created the first version of that when we still had the points to put into trees (12/31/3). Turrican was another player who played it but used a more defensive version which was like (18/27/1) if i remember correctly.

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A root is not a stun as it does not stop you from attacking/using defensives. Playing deception/infiltration in tank stance was never meta and existed way before 5.0. I created the first version of that when we still had the points to put into trees (12/31/3). Turrican was another player who played it but used a more defensive version which was like (18/27/1) if i remember correctly.

 

Ok yeah I don't normally use the term root as it confuses me since I got told by a friend (He was from EVE) "A root spell immobilizes a target. The target is to be rooted." normally I use the terminology such as Snare/Slow, Hard Stun and Mezzes.

 

 

Nah not all that time ago, lol you know when they removed active stances and made them passive in 5.0 it caused Assassins to have a double passive stance, even some who had changed specs in 5.0 benefited from both specs passive stance.

 

Yeah you talking hybrids that was way before considering the removal of class trees in 3.0.

Edited by DarthSealth
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The double stance bug was in the game for less than 2 months. And ever since it was fixed, Deception got nothing but nerfs (and mind you, it started with 5.0 with Phase Walk taken away). Even when Hatred got a small buff BW nerfed the class as a whole (remember when they changed Shapeless Spirit?).

And while sins were in a good position in S1 because of the bug, it was the time, when Arsenal mercs had 3 lives if they were bad and a lot more if they were good, while having insanely high dps and zero energy management. And there were the skank PTs and Juggs with insanely high AOE/cleave damage outputs (and quite often with their pocket sorc healers). We had to wait for a very long time for those to be nerfed. A lot longer than they had to for the double stance bugfix.

 

Btw, you started your list with phantom stride being better than leap. Care to elaborate? Because first of all, it has a much longer cd than leap, can't be used against entrenched snipers and is buggy af, you can consider yourself lucky if it doesn't send you to orbit or gets you stucked in some pebble on the ground - if it teleports you to your target, you can even open a bottle of champagne.

 

Also, noone cares that you've been playing fury for a long time, through fire and water. The past is irrelevant. What's important is the present and the future. And the thing is, fury maras have been one of the best classes for quite some time now and they still will be, while sins get only flashes from time to time and then nerfed because BW doesn't want dps sins to be the meta neither in PvE nor in PvP. And this is clearly reflected on the 6.0 sets, which are a bunch of horsecrap compared to other classes.

Edited by FlyXan
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  • 1 month later...

wow...you dont know yer cc;s yet talk all this trash. go back to warcraft. 6.0 gave us crap.(original post topic).

sever is useless until ya get a full set..our tools have been given to almost everyone else..so yeah..we darkness sins a lill miffed.

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