Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Class Changes: Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Class Changes: Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
06.28.2017 , 03:43 PM | #301
Sustained changes are frankly whatever.

Weakening burst and resources on a class that has always been burst and easy rotation.

Well that's beyond fitting a dps target and into trying to get people off the spec by making what it's always been used for less viable.

Plenty of reason to be unhappy.
Hotwired

Niman, Tomb of Freedon Nadd, The Red Eclipse, Darth Malgus

Immortals, The Lumberjacks, Nano, Not Good Enough, Disciples of Babylon

realleaftea's Avatar


realleaftea
06.28.2017 , 06:34 PM | #302
Ok, let's comment the changes to my second favorite spec.

The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%)

I made a test to see what it means. I took Elesandros' parse and it turned his 10,130 into ~9,870. I.e. a loss of ~260 pts.

Well, not such a tragedy, as it would primarily lower the damage spikes. But it makes me wonder, if BioWare plans to nerf IO the same way? This would result in a nerf of >400 pts, because their variant includes Power Shot. Likewise, BioWare would have to boost Lightning's Reverberating Force. And then, there are still plenty of AoEs that receive a 30% surge as well. But I guess the AoEs weren't on the agenda anyways

Blazing Bolts deals 4.89% less damage and costs 20 heat (up from 16)
Barrage no longer increases the damage dealt by Blazing Bolts, but still finishes its active cooldown

A pure Blazing Bolt nerf... which makes me sad. It's not really a high priority skill.
But I guess it wasn't part of Target Tracking nerf, so they had to take care of it seperately.

The overall changes
Blazing Bolts (old): ~14.7k per GCD | ~29.4k per use
Blazing Bolts) (new): ~12.7k per GCD | ~25.4k per use

Definitely more severe than the Target Tracking changes.

Decoy now has 2 charges (down from 5)

It was the Force Shroud for Mercenanies. Definitely better than IO's Degauss.
It looks like a concession to those players who think Arsenal is the only problem.
I would have lowered it to 3 charges and lowered the duration to 4~6s.

Riddle no longer improves Unload

Not worth mentioning. Blazing Bolts replaces Unload, so it's more like fixing a typo.

And if BioWare would have thought about it, it might have made more sense to switch Riddle's position with Cover Fire. A Riddle available at level 16 could have still boosted both Unload and Blazing Bolts, and a Cover Fire available at level 68 would then be limited to Blazing Bolts.

What I would do

Taking some other parsely results
Heetseeker: ~19k per GCD/use
Rail Shot: ~19k per GCD/use
Priming Shot: ~14.5k per GCD/use
Blazing Bolts: ~14.5k per GCD | ~29k per use
Tracer Missile: ~8.5k per GCD/use
Electro Net: ~26k per use (2.6k per tick)

Which skill would you nerf?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd definitely nerf the Heetseeker Missile!

If you have one skill - Rail Shot - that receives a 30% damage boost if you use 3 Tracer Missiles in advance; and there's another skill - Heatseeker Missile - that receives a 25% damage boost if you use 1 Tracer Missile in advance and the latter deals more damage in total, you've made a mockery of the whole spec.

Heat Signature MK1
One possibility to fix that is to increase the damage boost per Heat Signature from 6% to 10% (from 30% to 50% max.) but at the same time, nerfing the damage of the Heatseeker Missile by ~15% to equal out the overall DPS.

This would make Rail Shot the most powerful attack, but you have to build it up first. This would lower the damage at the start of the fight and gives opponents the opportunity to use a well-timed DCD to counter the Rail Shot.

But if the BioWare devs would have balls of steel, there would be an even better solution:

Heat Signature MK2
The current Rail Shot can't be used, unless the target is incapacitated, affected by an DoT or made vulnerable by a Tracer Missile. That means at least one Tracer Missile must be used in advance. Heatseeker Missile on contrast isn't that restrictive, can be used right away and only receives an additional damage boost in case a Tracer Missile was used in advance

So why not swap Heatseeker Missiles with Rail Shot?

I.e. the Rail Shot gets the fixed 25% damage boost and the Heatseeker Missile becomes gradually more effective, the more Heat Signatures are on the target ... i.e. the more Tracer Missiles were used in advance.

Both skills do have the same cooldown and deal approx. the same damage, so that wouldn't hurt. The Heatseeker Missile is also a skill unique to this spec, so this idea would improve the flavor of the spec.

The downside is that you would have to restructure some passives and rearrange them because Tracer Lock becomes available before Heatseeker Missile does. So before I reveal my preferred solution, a simple quiz for Eric & co: What are Supercharged Velocity stacks - i.e. what does Burst Mode do?
(I mean you even removed Unload from the Riddle passive, so your team must be very accurate and this should be trivial)

Because one solution would be to introduce a new passive at level 16 that grants Rail Shot a 25% damage bonus (either outright or when it hits a traced target). Tracer Lock would go to level 28. And Cover Fire would replace the current Burst Mode.

But I'd recommend to take my previous point into consideration as well. I.e. boosting the Heat Signature buff and lowering the damage output of the other skill by 15% to keep the DPS score the same. For this variant however, nerfing Rail Shot isn't an option as it would affect the other specs as well. So what I would do is to remove both the HS Missile and Rail Shot damage boost of the Power Lancher passive (10% total). Furthermore, I'd lower the 25% boost for Rail Shot to a 20% boost (5% less => 15% total). To sum it up:

Heatseaker Missile
no 25% damage boost
no +5% damage via Power Launcher
but up to 50% extra damage via Tracer Lock

Rail Shot
no 30% extra damage
no +5% damage via Power Launcher
but a 20% damage boost when hitting traced targets

Heat Signature MK3
Currently, Tracer Lock also improves the effectiveness of Rapid Scan. However, a percentual reduction of the activation time is just silly and confuses new players.

Another quiz for Eric & co.: With 10% gear alacrity, 3% alacrity due to the gas cylinder and 4 heat signatures due to 2x Tracer Missiles => resulting in -80% activation time, what activation time do I have to expect?

0.26s? Let's face it, that's stupid!

The solution: Heat Signatures increases the heals of the next Emergency Scan instead of Rapid Scan. It would definitely make the passive less complex. And if you like my previous idea(s), you might go for a 10% boost per stack just to create a better symmetry between damage-&-heals.
Not to mention that it makes no sense a Charged Barrel (Gunnery) buffs a Probe

But even if you don't like my previous ideas, there would be nothing to be afraid of. Emergency Scan becomes available at level 16 as well.

Small print:
Are you sure that Honed Lock does what it is suppose to do (increasing the crit. chance of Rail Shot by up to 15%). Because it's hard to find a parse (even operation parses) where the Rail Shot crit. chance outbests the one of Heatseeker Missile.


The ugly duckling - Priming Shot & Barrage
I don't know if the original BioWare developers thought it would be either smart or funny to give Priming Shot a cooldown of 18s, but frankly speaking: It's idiotic. A game won't becomre more likable if you introduce unnecessary difficulties or inconveniences. That's the path to the Darkest Side even the strongest Sith Lords wouldn't choose!

So I highly recommend to lower the cooldown of Priming Shot to 15s.

A normal, sane person would now assume that with all skills at a 15s cooldown, this class would finally have an acceptable rotation. But that person would be mistaken, which brings me to the next point:

Barrage states that Tracer Missile and Sweeping Blaster reset the cooldown of Blazing Bolts every 8s. So come on BioWare! You guys are either sadistic or inaccurate!

Let's assume you guys have some dignity left and you're just inaccurte. So let's say that Blazing Bolts is actually resetted every 7.5s. Sounds good, right? So now you would be able to use this skill twice per 15s rotation..... Well, it's not that simple!

The problem is that it's resetted either via Tracer Missile or Sweeping Blaster. The latter is an AoE and IIRC only the initial hit would count. So let's ignore that skill and focus on Tracer Missile! What's so special about that skill?? - It has an activation time! And that means...

The Blazing Bolt reset triggers the moment Tracer Missile deals damage, i.e. AFTER the 1.5s activation time.

Now Eric, can you imagine what happens when Priming Shot makes the next Tracer Missile an instant cast? - Tracer Missile will deal its damage too early!

So congratulations, BioWare gave this class a skill that outright busts the very concept of this spec!

But how to fix it? Well, two options: Either give Blazing Bolts a cooldown of 7.5s, so no reset would be necessary. OR avoid that a rotational skill - Priming Shot - makes the next Tracer Missile an instant cast. Both solutions have some downsides. The former - the lower CD - would limit Blazing Bolt to a fix spot within the rotation. The latter - changing Priming Shot - would make the skill less appealing and wouldn't solve the issue completely (since Tech Override would still do the same).

I prefer the latter option because it leaves a margin. F.e. Priming Shot could rather make the next Railshot free of cost and/or allow Railshot to be used against any target and/or give Rail Shot a 20% damage boost. And that's exactly what I'd recommend. I would skip the whole "Tracer Missile leaves targets vulnerable to Rail Shot" part and just implement a second independant class specialty. Whereas one missile traces the heat signatures of other missiles, the priming high-energy shot makes way for the other more deadly high-energy shot.

Advanced Targeting
BioWare, please keep in mind that the Target Tracking passive isn't the only 'surge' bonus a Mercenary has. All three specs have access to Adv. Targeting, a class passive that - next to other things - increases the crit. damage of all attacks by 10% for 6s after a successful critical hit. Assuming a 50% crit. chance and a constant use of skills, it's more or less a permanent bonus. So it would be clever to let this skill increase the overall damage instead.

Electro Net
The other thing that bothers me is Electro Net. Why? Because it deals a lot of damage and ticks every second, which makes a mockery of all the other DoTs in the game. But on the other hand, it also has a higher cooldown. It's even higher than the cooldown of other special utilities like Phase Walk, Force Camouflage, Extrication, Diversion, Flash Bang or Whirlwind...... which is kind of odd. Therefore:

Cut the damage of Electro Net by ~25% and lower the cooldown to 60s.

Although the cooldown would be cut by 1/3th, the damage wouldn't lowered by the same amount to take into account that ths skill has to be cast more often. The new Electro Net should IMO deal ~2.0k per tick (~20k in total).

Optional feature
Electro Net could IMO trigger an interrupt (see Disabling Shot) on every tick. It would therefore not only counter to high mobility skills, it should also interrupt skills that require "concentration" and/or unimpeded mobility.

___________________________

TL;DR
Tracer Missile
Does not leave targets vulnerable to Rail Shot

Heatseeker Missile
No 25% damage boost when it hits a target with Heat Signatures

Tracer Lock
Increases the damage of the next Heatseeker Missile / Emergency Scan by 10% per stack (max 5 stacks)

Terminal Velocity
Does not lower the energy cost of Rail Shot

Priming Shot
Does not make the next Tracer Missile an instant cast
Makes the next Rail Shot usable against any target
Increases the damage of the next Railshot by 20%
Makes the next Rail Shot free of cost

Power Launcher
No benefits for Rail Shot or Heatseeker Missile
Lowers the cost of Electro Net to 0

Electro Net
Lower cooldown to 60s (from 90s)
Nerf damage by ~25%

Advanced Targeting (all Mercs)
Does not increase crit. damage by 10%
Increases damage by 5%

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
06.28.2017 , 08:15 PM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by realleaftea View Post
I made a test to see what it means. I took Elesandros' parse and it turned his 10,130 into ~9,870. I.e. a loss of ~260 pts.
You worked out the the higher use of resources from the 25% increased cost on Blazing Bolts and how that would knock on to faster use of cooldowns and higher use of default attack?

The bit that was put in to make the spec more restrictive and less flexible in resource use.
Hotwired

Niman, Tomb of Freedon Nadd, The Red Eclipse, Darth Malgus

Immortals, The Lumberjacks, Nano, Not Good Enough, Disciples of Babylon

realleaftea's Avatar


realleaftea
06.29.2017 , 08:04 AM | #304
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
You worked out the the higher use of resources from the 25% increased cost on Blazing Bolts and how that would knock on to faster use of cooldowns and higher use of default attack?

The bit that was put in to make the spec more restrictive and less flexible in resource use.
No, because the point value was solely about the Target Tracking nerf (so it didn't include the Blazing Bolt changes).

Blazing Bolts cost
I agree with BioWare that it should have a higher cost. It takes up 2 GCDs, so it should have about twice the cost of a 1 GCD skill. However contrary to what BioWare plans, I'd always try to keep the energy management intact. Every class should be able to run a normal rotation without being forced to fall back to 'base' attacks..... that's unnecessarily complex.

So let's have a closer look at the Arsenal energy management.

Cummulative cost per 15s:
1x Heatseeker M. = 15e
3x Tracer Missile = 45e
2x Blazing Bolts = 32e
1x Priming Shot = 10e (12e every 18s)
1x Rail Shot = 5e
--------------------------------
Total: 107 energy

Energy regeneration over 15s:
Base energy regen. = 75
Terminal Velocity = 20
Vent Heat = 6.25 (50e every 120s)
Improved Vent = 1..875 (15e every 120s)
Thermal Override = 2.0 (16e every 120s)
Supercharge = ~3.0 (10e every 33.3s)
--------------------------------
Total: 108

So it requires this spec to use every energy regeneration ability it can get and even choose the appropriate utility. In my opinion, that isn't acceptable. Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override should stay emergency abilities.

What I would do

Blazing Bolts
Blazing Bolts should cost 24e. This would raise the amount of energy required per rotation by 16e.

The easy way to negate this would be to let Priming Shot make the next Tracer Missile free of cost.

But I would actually recommend something else. I would raise the passive regeneration rate of all Bounty Hunters & Imperial Agents by 1e per sec (to 6e per sec). This would also result in +15e per rotation.

Tracer Lock // Honed Lock
Cell Charger doesn't lower the cost of Rail Shot by 10.
Tracer Lock // Honed Lock refunds 3 energy per heat signature.
Result in a maximum of +5e per 15s.

Supercharged Gas
Shouldn't vent any heat right away but should regenerate 2e every second for 8~10s (similar to Sniper Volley).
Would double the amount of energy regenerated per use.

Power Launcher
Let the Power Launcher passive remove the heat cost of Electro Net.

SabreDesJedi's Avatar


SabreDesJedi
07.31.2017 , 03:33 AM | #305
Hello,

The nerf of the DPS of the commando burst is widely abused, it is beyond the 5% announced. The gunslinger has not so much impacted it is always close to 10K DPS. Which is not the case for the burst commando.
Ok to reduce the chances of critical, but to increase the energy costs it is and therefore to oblige to make white shots is what scoff the world. We're more of a burst class! If a burst turns without energy, how would you like to do Nightmare? That with Gunslinger, scholars are always as crap and need distant and diverse.
It is where the 5-10% gap between hand-to-hand and distant? With the 11k of the Scoudrel against the 9k2 of the commando one asks the Gunsliner is still at 10k is the only remote

So either you remount us our damage or our critical or you put our energy costs back as before.
If there was really one thing to change on the commando it was his survival in pvp ...

With similar class cuts do not surprise you if people stop playing.

Hoppinswtor's Avatar


Hoppinswtor
08.01.2017 , 07:05 AM | #306
After an additional 10 parses over the last couple weeks, I've managed two over 9200, six over 9100, and 2 in the 9000 range. They must be factoring responsive safeguards into the "5 percent below target dps" because otherwise Arsenal should be doing close to 9400.

Returning the energy costs back to what they once were should elevate a good parse to about 9300-9400, which is where it should be. I mean come on, we're using twice as many rapid shots as IO and AP.....
Hoppin <Death Smile>
Hoppinator (Merc), Hoppin (Sorc), Hopposites (Mara), Hoptimal (Sin)
Hopalicious (Jugg), Oppinator (Operative), Hoptimize (PT)

FerkWork's Avatar


FerkWork
08.01.2017 , 09:12 AM | #307
The fact that BB no longer glows when reset tilts me the most tbh lol.
Dank Memes Legacy @ Star Forge / Baguettes Legacy @ Satele Shan
Yam'unun, Warstalker, From Beyond, Dragonslayer, Gate Crasher, Dread Master, Revanchist and Le Meme Lord
<Origin> <Fortitude> <Aeon>
5.0 PT Shield Tech Guide/5.0 VG Shield Specialist Guide/ Twitch/Referral Link

SabreDesJedi's Avatar


SabreDesJedi
08.01.2017 , 01:13 PM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by Hoppinswtor View Post
After an additional 10 parses over the last couple weeks, I've managed two over 9200, six over 9100, and 2 in the 9000 range. They must be factoring responsive safeguards into the "5 percent below target dps" because otherwise Arsenal should be doing close to 9400.

Returning the energy costs back to what they once were should elevate a good parse to about 9300-9400, which is where it should be. I mean come on, we're using twice as many rapid shots as IO and AP.....

Yes then where to go back the damage and criticism to their old values and leaving energy management at its current point, which would mount the dps at 9k4-9k6.

Harder management of energy but spells doing more damage so a better burst might be the best, making the class still a little harder to play

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
08.01.2017 , 11:02 PM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by FerkWork View Post
The fact that BB no longer glows when reset tilts me the most tbh lol.
Eh, bothers me too from a familiarity perspective, but that makes sense to me actually. TM no longer buffs BB at all, it literally just ends the cd. It would be like if sniper volley made penetrating blast glowy.
Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Isilout - Commando
A day may come, when BW forces us to learn IO. But it is not this day!
This day, we Arsenal! - Aragorn, Return of the King
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

The_Bad_One's Avatar


The_Bad_One
08.15.2017 , 01:53 AM | #310
Returning the energy costs back will be the key.
So for a few NiM Bosses it will be to hard.
They can nerf a Def for the PVP maybe just reflect and no healing.