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Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.18.2019 , 04:02 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
The way you feel about something does not entitle you to claim it's "inappropriate" for anyone else.
You don't see a problem with soliciting gear-feeding microtransactions, as a matter of principle?

If it's more or less circumventable now, it doesn't alleviate the moral failure of its existence. It's the unwelcome touch that forebodes the darkness to come. A very bright line crossed.

I won't rationalize what's going on in EA/BioWare's Neverland.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.18.2019 , 04:20 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
You don't see a problem with soliciting gear-feeding microtransactions, as a matter of principle?

If it's more or less circumventable now, it doesn't alleviate the moral failure of its existence. It's the unwelcome touch that forebodes the darkness to come. A very bright line crossed.

I won't rationalize what's going on in EA/BioWare's Neverland.
What I'd see as a problem would be being able to direct purchase the gear from the store. Since that's not a thing now, and it's not going to be a thing later, you're blowing smoke, and the amount of conflation here is almost criminal. Other than ranks being meaningless in context with gear drops, nothing's changing, and frankly, that's a change for the better. No more gear two tiers lower than what you're wearing, all w/out having to worry about what rank you are.

Feel free to accelerate your rank gains all you like, you're not going to be any better off than the player that isn't doing it. It's almost sad how much you focus on one part of the changes, but ignore everything else. I say almost because I'm aware that you're doing it deliberately. "But it's EA, it has to be bad". It's getting a little stale. I'll be sure to call 'em out when they need to be, but as it stands right now, they don't need to be. The way this is presented, it's a marked improvement on what we have now, and it starts being a marked improvement from the first time you start getting crates.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.18.2019 , 04:39 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
What I'd see as a problem would be being able to direct purchase the gear from the store.
Truly direct gear purchases will never happen because it's too transparent. When then next pox arrives, it'll be advantages sold in gambling products, to conceal costs and incentivize repeated transactions. FIFA-style.

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.18.2019 , 05:44 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Feel free to accelerate your rank gains all you like, you're not going to be any better off than the player that isn't doing it.
I'd love for you to be right, but it's overwhelmingly likely Renown crates will be the primary feeder for Amps.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
06.18.2019 , 06:01 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by MacCleoud View Post
This is correct on every front. Will people do the double boost? Yes.

Are they being forced to? No
This is the same tired argument that gets dragged out every time people try to call out problems with monetization systems. Are you being forced to buy the game? No. Are you being forced to participate in the entertainment economy? No. Does it matter whether you are? No. In this context, it has nothing to do with any of it.

The whole point of these systems is to make money. They don't put time and effort into something like this only to have it be ignored. So when people say things like "it's optional," they're missing the point; that time and money and thought goes into designing these things so that they will make money. It's the entire job of marketing departments to convince people to spend money on things they don't want or need.

Is it optional when they funnel you into a system where you feel pressured to pay for something that was designed to get you to want to pay for it? Technically, yes, but the whole point is that in that moment, you don't feel like it is optional. You feel like it's essential and you have to have it. That's the difference between offering something people may want and trying to pressure people into something they don't want or need by designing an artificial system to deprive them of something in the moment where they are at their most vulnerable. Offering something of value versus setting a trap, to put it one way. Boosts are obviously a case of setting a trap, as these are artificial numbers and progression to begin with and there is no inherent value in artificially making them hard to get through precisely to the extent that people want boosts, other than to make money.
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robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.18.2019 , 06:51 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
This is the same tired argument that gets dragged out every time people try to call out problems with monetization systems. Are you being forced to buy the game? No. Are you being forced to participate in the entertainment economy? No. Does it matter whether you are? No. In this context, it has nothing to do with any of it.

The whole point of these systems is to make money. They don't put time and effort into something like this only to have it be ignored. So when people say things like "it's optional," they're missing the point; that time and money and thought goes into designing these things so that they will make money. It's the entire job of marketing departments to convince people to spend money on things they don't want or need.

Is it optional when they funnel you into a system where you feel pressured to pay for something that was designed to get you to want to pay for it? Technically, yes, but the whole point is that in that moment, you don't feel like it is optional. You feel like it's essential and you have to have it. That's the difference between offering something people may want and trying to pressure people into something they don't want or need by designing an artificial system to deprive them of something in the moment where they are at their most vulnerable. Offering something of value versus setting a trap, to put it one way. Boosts are obviously a case of setting a trap, as these are artificial numbers and progression to begin with and there is no inherent value in artificially making them hard to get through precisely to the extent that people want boosts, other than to make money.
Say it isn't so, a business is trying to make money? Tell me, do you return your paychecks to your employer on payday? It's amazing how quickly this seems like a strawman, or a tangent, but yes, they put items in the store for people to buy so they can make money. It's the same reason you see ads on YouTube, or creators asking for donations. "But they make billions", I'm sure they do, how much do they spend? Gotta cover that overhead after all.

Now you call me when purchasing those items is required, because until then, it's just faux outrage.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
06.18.2019 , 07:05 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Say it isn't so, a business is trying to make money? Tell me, do you return your paychecks to your employer on payday? It's amazing how quickly this seems like a strawman, or a tangent, but yes, they put items in the store for people to buy so they can make money. It's the same reason you see ads on YouTube, or creators asking for donations. "But they make billions", I'm sure they do, how much do they spend? Gotta cover that overhead after all.

Now you call me when purchasing those items is required, because until then, it's just faux outrage.
If you mean what you're knocking down is a strawman, then yes, that's what you're doing. As I stated, there's a difference between offering something of value and setting up a trap. You can pretend I haven't made any distinction, but I have, so there is no point addressing the argument you're trying to make since it assumes I haven't.
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FlatTax
06.18.2019 , 07:58 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Now you call me when purchasing those items is required, because until then, it's just faux outrage.
A business practice doesn't have to be compulsory to be unethical.

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robertthebard
06.19.2019 , 06:54 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
A business practice doesn't have to be compulsory to be unethical.
This will address both posts at once:

There is nothing about this that is required to play the game, and get the associated rewards, unlike the sub model, right? I think there are titles associated with the new system, but since titles are purely flavor here, and carry no benefit, there's nothing to win, except getting those titles faster. If you feel compelled to buy these to accelerate your acquisition of cosmetics, knock yourself out. However, don't pretend that it's a company doing bad things, this is one instance where they're actually not doing bad things.

The boosts for the current system drop from crates, and can be purchased with in game currency. Considering that this is the current model, and what we've been told, nothing about this is going to change. If making an item that is available in the CS available for in game currency is unethical, then there is no ethical thing anywhere, including arguing against said system.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.19.2019 , 03:58 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
If making an item that is available in the CS available for in game currency is unethical, then there is no ethical thing anywhere, including arguing against said system.
The reverse is unethical: making an earned advantage cash-purchasable.

Microtransactions shouldn't be linked to progression and gearing, as a matter of bedrock principle. And, if customer respect were a thing, microtransactions wouldn't exist at all for actively paying subscribers.