What spec is the Sin you are fighting?

Probably the same as everyone, lol.

I struggle to think of any class that a Rage Juggernaut is good against 1v1. The spec is quite simply not designed for a 1v1 fight because it has little "control" and they have one defensive cooldown and no more. In a duel situation, it's easy to pay attention to their stacks of shockwaves as well which makes it easier to counter them. They really only shine in a team.

Vigilance/Vengeance has one brilliant perk to counter the sneakies, you just need good reflexes. The moment you're knocked on your arse, you have to pop Enraged Defense/Focused Defense (presuming you took the two skill points in Defiance/Unyielding). That's 15% damage reduction to their opening burst right there; after that, Push, Leap, Master Strike/Ravage - if the Assassin pops Force Shroud instead of Deflection, it's game over basically

But yeah, Deception/Infiltration is fearsome right now. I duelled a guildie on my Assault Vanguard and I just couldn't beat him. Force Shrouding Ion Pulse, Deflecting High Impact Bolt... I'm pretty much out of ideas at that point

I struggle to think of any class that a Rage Juggernaut is good against 1v1. The spec is quite simply not designed for a 1v1 fight because it has little "control" and they have one defensive cooldown and no more. In a duel situation, it's easy to pay attention to their stacks of shockwaves as well which makes it easier to counter them. They really only shine in a team.

 

Vigilance/Vengeance has one brilliant perk to counter the sneakies, you just need good reflexes. The moment you're knocked on your arse, you have to pop Enraged Defense/Focused Defense (presuming you took the two skill points in Defiance/Unyielding). That's 15% damage reduction to their opening burst right there; after that, Push, Leap, Master Strike/Ravage - if the Assassin pops Force Shroud instead of Deflection, it's game over basically

 

But yeah, Deception/Infiltration is fearsome right now. I duelled a guildie on my Assault Vanguard and I just couldn't beat him. Force Shrouding Ion Pulse, Deflecting High Impact Bolt... I'm pretty much out of ideas at that point

Like my earlier post. It's time to nerf Assassin. Force Shroud should either cost the Assassin 1/3 - 1/2 health when used or have it's CD increased to 3 min+ or both.

Like my earlier post. It's time to nerf Assassin. Force Shroud should either cost the Assassin 1/3 - 1/2 health when used or have it's CD increased to 3 min+ or both.

Not sure if serious .Less qq more pew pew.

I have over 1200 power on my shadow and smash spec juggs are the least of my problems. It has become so common that even a blind person can recognize the opener, procs and when the smash will come. Furthermore, I have duelled with a guildie of mine, smash guardian over 1300 power, to understand the weaknesses of my class better. A fully procced smash from my guildie is 5.4-5.7k on my shadow. This is probably amongst the highest smashes I have seen on my toon. In any case, i gave him a tip on how he can kill me and this involves him using force exhaustion while I am in stasis. At this point in the fight i may not have my resilience as I used to to prevent one of his smashes. I may even be forced to pop the breaker while this is happening because my hp is going down quite fast. Just a thought on how you can adapt your strategy. I learned this trick from my sentinel and i kill sorcs/shadows (expecially infiltration) after i pop zen i do cauterize and force stasis. This will lead to a 100 % kill on that person. Playing multiple classes really opens your eyes and helps you be pro-active not re-active.

The above suggestion may work and once you see that shadows are not immortal you will even make variations to that tactic. I have a lot of exit strategies even for the above and the beauty of PVP is how you counter my moves. The worst enemy for a shadow is the dot spec foe. I think juggs have a spec like that too. Your chances to kill a shadow increase dramatically if you play a dot class. You can dot us thru our immunity which is on 1 minute cooldown now not 45s. That makes a lot of difference. Keep us dotted and we will not cloak way like sentinels. The shadow has so many weaknesses but people are lazy to actually take the effort and ask for nerfs.

Like my earlier post. It's time to nerf Assassin. Force Shroud should either cost the Assassin 1/3 - 1/2 health when used or have it's CD increased to 3 min+ or both.

lol i love a good laugh

Yeah I ran Vengeance for quite awhile...Actually straight through the first Rage Fest before the Nerf I was Vengeance Spec. But at this point I really dont feel like completely Re-Itemizing all of my WH gear once again just to give Veng a try against one AC.

Honestly I think Im just Tired of Jugg period. Playstyle for all specs is pretty stale for me....Think its just time to move on from the AC. Have a few Alts in the 20's to 30's Maybe its time to focus on one of them full time I really dont need gear on my Jugg anymore so its no loss on the Hamster wheel.

I noticed Im not putting as much into the AC anymore...Just kinda autopilot...And that just wont do

Assassins are pretty god damn tough right now. If you are guarding a gate or single guarding any objective they will knock you out rather quickly.

Your best bet is to pop a defensive cool down and stim. Hopefully you live through the first series of attacks and can reset the right.

If you don't, it's ok, they are doing it to everyone. Call for backup when you think one might be stealth nearby.

lol i love a good laugh

Good laugh will be the F2P players start asking the questions.

Off the top of my head only Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage can provide that much protection that Force Shroud does, but it cost a Sentinel/Marauder 1/2 of their heath to use.

Sure, Force Shroud has a shorter duration (1 sec) than GbtF/UR but it has a short CD and cost 0 heath to use.

Even, Saber Ward only reducing the damage taken from Force and Tech attacks by 25% and has a 3 min CD.

Like my earlier post. It's time to nerf Assassin. Force Shroud should either cost the Assassin 1/3 - 1/2 health when used or have it's CD increased to 3 min+ or both.

There's no nice way to put this: just shut up.

People who played Deception/Infil from release know just how terrible the spec was relative to every other spec.

You're absolutely wrong about Shroud needing a nerf, but if a nerf is going to be discussed, let's wait as long as we did before anything happened to the other OP classes.

Cya in 8-9 months.

There's no nice way to put this: just shut up.

 

People who played Deception/Infil from release know just how terrible the spec was relative to every other spec.

You're absolutely wrong about Shroud needing a nerf, but if a nerf is going to be discussed, let's wait as long as we did before anything happened to the other OP classes.

 

Cya in 8-9 months.

Its been 11 months since people figured out that sin/shadow was op. The only reason they havent been nerfed to the level the should be in PVP is because they still have to have them as the 3rd viable tank for PVE. Its as simple as that. Try to get people to look at the birdie all you want, fact of the matter is sins are/have been/will be OP in PVP as long as this game is around.

Soljin... from my experience, assassins are a tough counter for many classes and probably the best 1v1 class in game. My opinion anyways but maybe it's because I have a hard time countering them as well. One of my guildies that I play with more than anyone else is a very good assassin. Palmsolo, you've probably seen him around. He's run almost every spec there is out there and does well with them all. We duel fairly often and with my marauder... annihilation is normally my best bet. Those duels go very back and forth but with rage spec... it normally doesn't end well for me. I think rage is just a lousy counter to an assassin.

 

Anyways... since we're same server and same faction. He'll most likely be on tonight and you can jump in our vent if you want. I'm sure he'd be willing to break down countering assassins of each spec. We could even make a dueling event out of it. It's been a while since I've rounded one up but the turnout is usually pretty good and makes for a good time.

 

Hit me up later if you want. I should be on tonight and he prolly will be too.

 

Uglymrj

Uglymr-j

Awshii'et

Ug'ajug

 

I'll most likely be on one of the first two.

Powertechs win out in 1 v 1 imo if they have all their cool downs available. That's a big if though.

Its been 11 months since people figured out that sin/shadow was op. The only reason they havent been nerfed to the level the should be in PVP is because they still have to have them as the 3rd viable tank for PVE. Its as simple as that. Try to get people to look at the birdie all you want, fact of the matter is sins are/have been/will be OP in PVP as long as this game is around.

Lots of assertions, few of which are even related. Lumping all assassins into a single category and then labeling them OP may be easy for someone lacking a firm grasp of game mechanics, but it isn't really reflective of reality.

Deception/Infil wasn't competitive until very recently (and still isn't imo)-- nobody played it competitively because it was a terrible spec, even with FS/Resilience. So your inelegant assertion that all assassins have always been OP is as ridiculous as it is wrong.

Your beef, which you seem unable to properly articulate, is probably with high damage and utility hybrids having access to 5 second resilience of FS. This is a far cry from all assassins being OP, but in order to know and have argued that you'd have to be less bad than you clearly are.

Incidentally, immunity to force and tech is not the same as immunity to all damage. I suspect you also have a beef with not hitting the keys you want in the order you want and having your opponents fall over.

~Eggs

I really wasnt looking to start a Nerf Assassin/Shadow thread just to be clear...This thread was prompted by A few players of the AC that clearly had strong gearing and had worked out a Sure win Strat for decimating people in a 1v1 fight....Not to mention we have pretty much established that they are a "Hard Counter" for Rage given their Defensive CD's, Massive reductions to AoE DMG, and Readily availible CC....

If I were to really launch any Complaints they would be aimed @ TTK, and the 1.4 Resolve formula. Resolve builds Just slow enough now for one additional CC per engagement to be applied and Coupled with the Current TTK it takes away the feeling of a decent fight...You put that together with a Class that has stealth to guarentee the opener, Burst Dmg, and the ability to keep you out of the fight for (Now 1.4) for a pretty long duration....and it takes the fun right out of the job. Losing a duel is going to happen.

Losing a duel in seconds on a Fully WH character that I have played Since the start, and have above average skill on...Not great, but above average..Seems a bit off. I dont Blame Sins, I blame TTK, and Resolve to be honest.

Although in General I have always felt when Class design is in question that as a class is given more CC, or Defensive CD's...Inherently their DMG potential should go down to scale...Juggs are thought of as a Tanky class...thats far from the truth, but they have crazy Burst potential...Makes sense. Now Take a Jugg Give them Stealth and some type of immunity CD make Smash single target and give them one additional stun...and you have a Deception Sin Thats not wearing a dress......

We could call for a true Balance of all classes.

Everyone gets one gun

Everyone gets to shoot one way

Everyone can move 4 directions

Kinda sounds like Tanks on the Atari 2600 (yes, I had one)

I know many people that played Consular were unhappy about the way Infiltrators played. They were like the fat kid picked last for a game of kick ball. They posted on the Class Feedback thread started by the Devs. The Devs read it and based on the general consensus they adjusted some things. Now we have a place in WZ and raids.

Losing a duel in seconds on a Fully WH character that I have played Since the start, and have above average skill on...Not great, but above average..Seems a bit off. I dont Blame Sins, I blame TTK, and Resolve to be honest..

In seconds is a bit of an overstatement as just the AOE slow + a tactical force push followed by a saberthrow as you run away from him followed by a force charge just before he catches up with you should ensure that the fight is not over in seconds, even if you do loose.

I do agree that Shadows/Sins are probably the top 1vs1 class atm, they are the class I look least forward to facing on my AP Powertech, as they are even a better counter to that spec as it is dependent on an aoe (prototype flamethrower) and mostly elemental attacks.

In seconds is a bit of an overstatement as just the AOE slow + a tactical force push followed by a saberthrow as you run away from him followed by a force charge just before he catches up with you should ensure that the fight is not over in seconds, even if you do loose.

 

I do agree that Shadows/Sins are probably the top 1vs1 class atm, they are the class I look least forward to facing on my AP Powertech, as they are even a better counter to that spec as it is dependent on an aoe (prototype flamethrower) and mostly elemental attacks.

Not trying to be a "Smart Alec" but "In Seconds" To me means anything under 60..AKA a Minute. And it was used as a vague description on purpose to note that I dont know how long it was...But it was very short If not I would have said a specific number of seconds......

On that note I took one of the folks in this threads advice and Went back to Vengeance for a fresh perspective....I re-itemized my gear a bit to get my crit up to 30% (35% Buffed) and added a some accuracy back into the mix so as not to miss in my rotation...and kept my Surge @ 75%.

Maybe not perfect but good enough to give it a try....I was actually having a great time and Unstoppable just made PvP more fun period....Im not CC'd nearly as much, and have some control...I dont post the big numbers anymore but I am wayyyy harder to kill and single target I can really chew someone up....Was great fun running some matches today and kinda brought me back around.

So thanks to the PvP community... you all really did help and thanks for all the advice from everyone.

Not trying to be a "Smart Alec" but "In Seconds" To me means anything under 60..AKA a Minute. And it was used as a vague description on purpose to note that I dont know how long it was...But it was very short If not I would have said a specific number of seconds......

Fair enough, to me it seemed to indicate the lower end of the spectrum in your case as you seemed particularly distressed at how fast you were killed. Any DPS class can destroy another DPS class "in seconds" if you consider that to be up to a minute.

In any case, it's worth a try but I doubt you will do much better with Vengeance. I never found the spec particularly effective versus assassins. You will be marginally more effective than Rage vs assassins as you use less force attacks and are not reliant on an AOE, but with the rather incredible amount of CC they have they will be able to negate most of your ravages and without those Vengeance does not have near equal dps output as Rage.

In the end they still have the upper hand in terms of dps/survivability ratio, and you will be less effective against pretty much every other class except maybe AP Powertechs (30% AOE damage reduction) and maybe Snipers (60% AOE damage reduction but only when entrenched). However Vengeance is much more interesting (and imo more fun) to play

Fair enough, to me it seemed to indicate the lower end of the spectrum in your case as you seemed particularly distressed at how fast you were killed. Any DPS class can destroy another DPS class "in seconds" if you consider that to be up to a minute.

 

In any case, it's worth a try but I doubt you will do much better with Vengeance. I never found the spec particularly effective versus Aasassins. You will be marginally more effective than Rage vs assassins as you use less force attacks and are not reliant on an AOE, but with the rather incredible amount of CC they have they will be able to negate most of your ravages and without those Vengeance does not have near equal dps output as Rage.

 

In the end they still have the upper hand in terms of dps/survivability ratio, and you will be less effective against pretty much every other class except maybe AP Powertechs (30% AOE damage reduction) and maybe Snipers (60% AOE damage reduction but only when entrenched). However Vengeance is much more interesting (and imo more fun) to play

The thing that really helped today was the CC immunity.....

Yeah you may be right on multiple counts......Vengeance is for sure more fun to play. I was also anticipating having having a tougher time in 1v1 combat... but today did not show that result I managed to win every possible match up today including against sins.... of course I didn't win them all but I won enough.

Good to hear your having fun, even if it meant trying something else. I kinda wish I had a Jugg myself, I like tanking on my Assassin but just for a change of pace.

The other night I was duelling against a Rage Jugg, and I didn't have any difficulties at all defeating him. Its just the way the classes are, Assassins can do a lot to stop or delay that smash, which Rage is completely built around. The longer they go without smashing, the worse it gets, as even when they hit one they then have to wait for the cooldown... and then the delaying starts again. In practice though this goes by really fast,as an assassin can kill the Jugg while allowing them to only get 1 smash off.

Here's something for thought: would a Rage marauder be a better 1v1 class than a Rage Jugg? So far I have had great success in duels on my Rage mara in pre-50s, even against people of similar or higher levels, both in wzs and open world duels. Force camo I find particualrly useful in duelling. But how is it at 50, considering similar gear levels?