I made a post about this several weeks ago. We are still stuck on Toth & Zorn HM, and at this point we are tired of operations, we will probably quit operations, in tern quit the game. If you can't keep me playing swtor you wont keep anyone I am a one eyed Star Wars fan boy who loves raiding and pvp.

 

PROBLEMS

-Project takes so long to deal damage it hits after Toth & Zorn Jump and so our Tank gets 1 shot.

-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.

-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.

- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

 

I WANT a response to this post, I have posted support, twitter and made several posts on these forums. I can't get any information no one cares. At this point, there is nothing we can do.

completely agree especially about the high damage numbers and group makeup. why are we punished because we wanna play with our friends and the majority of them play melee, its ridiculous. this rubbish was a big problem with raiding in wow, i really think Bioware would have seen these kinds of problems with the leading MMO and thought to themselves 'hmmm that stuff sucks, so lets get rid of it and have a better game to attract customers' but instead we pretty much just got wow reskinned with star wars. please fix these issues Bioware, make yours the superior game.

I made a post about this several weeks ago. We are still stuck on Toth & Zorn HM, and at this point we are tired of operations, we will probably quit operations, in tern quit the game. If you can't keep me playing swtor you wont keep anyone I am a one eyed Star Wars fan boy who loves raiding and pvp.

 

PROBLEMS

-Project takes so long to deal damage it hits after Toth & Zorn Jump and so our Tank gets 1 shot.

-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.

-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.

- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

 

I WANT a response to this post, I have posted support, twitter and made several posts on these forums. I can't get any information no one cares. At this point, there is nothing we can do.

 

The very thing that helped to kill casual guilds in wow. Story mode should be story mode. Guilds that are strong should rip right through this. Guilds that are more casual, that are less intense should be able to take these two down in a matter of a raid or two.

 

Hard mode and nightmare are for guilds such as mine (small, but with very strong raiders). Story mode is for everyone else. If we see average guilds with this much frustration on story mode, there is a strong cause for concern.

T&Z is a very tough fight, but it is doable and with a significant melee group. We did it last night with only 4 ranged (in 16 man HM). It took us 7-8 wipes, but we did get it done. It is an extreme situational awareness fight and healers and tanks need to be on the ball continuously. Our raid has been working to get as many of us into Black Hole gear as possible and that seems to be helping our survivability on the whole.

 

I agree that T&Z could be made SLIGHTLY less bursty (really all the EC hard mode bosses) and it would still present a fun challenge but not be quite so frustrating to groups without absolutely perfect coordination or with rotating members from week to week.

Edited June 11, 2012 by SlmJmOSUMB

completely agree especially about the high damage numbers and group makeup. why are we punished because we wanna play with our friends and the majority of them play melee, its ridiculous.

 

This is exactly what story mode is suppose to prevent.

 

Now, as I've stated, I do not believe that my guild will have any issue with this on story mode. We are slow moving, but strong raiders and we've just faced them last night (we cleared KP hard mode in two or three nights mostly based on time constraints). However, I have a deep concern regarding casual guilds that "play with friends" as that is, in reality, the backbone of a player base that will maintain for the long haul.

 

Give us "challenge" in hard mode, not story mode. Story mode is for friends and fun. If one gives people the option of replacing friends or doing content, the game will lose them. That would be most unfortunate.

Toth & Zorn HM overtuned?are u serious? Full rakata or almost full rakata should be enough for those bosses and sorry for the melee,but the perfect ops dps team is 3 ranged and 1 melee only. If u put the melee guy on Toth only, u will have no problems at all mate since he doesnt get the fearfull debuff on Zorn that being there would kill him very fast. And the rest is just simple. Just make sure u have the right people geared and use a PARSER to see everyones perfomance in the DPS department. Edited June 11, 2012 by SKYPATCH

Toth & Zorn HM overtuned?are u serious? Full rakata or almost full rakata should be enough for those bosses and sorry for the melee,but the perfect ops dps team is 3 ranged and 1 melee only. If u put the melee guy on Toth only, u will have no problems at all mate since he doesnt get the fearfull debuff on Zorn that being there would kill him very fast. And the rest is just simple. Just make sure u have the right people geared and use a PARSER to see everyones perfomance in the DPS department.

 

you really shouldnt have to have a specific dps makeup though. it should all be about bring the player not the class. you should never be punished for having too many melee, its very poor game design

Edited June 11, 2012 by nickoking

you really shouldnt have to have a specific dps makeup though. it should all be about bring the player not the class. you should never be punished for having too many melee, its very poor game design

 

exactly the specific dps is rubbish, all the praise for this game allows you to play the mythos you want is ********, if we are forced to re roll and respec.

I will add, we are running an 8 man HM, 16 man is possibly totally different.

 

PROBLEMS

-No gear step up. We can not improve our gear to aid us in the fight. It is the first boss.

-The boss has no hard to mechanics, it is simply lazy stack it with heaps of damage to make it hard.

- It favors a raid with as little to no melee as possible COME ON! that is just stupid, i am so angry right now, being forced to change our entire raid makeup recruit new players and force friends out of our operation because we can't progress.

 

1. Black Hole gear and Campaign gear are both T61 pieces. If one rips out the armoring/mod/enhancements from Black Hole gear and put them into Rakata (or Columi/Tionesse for that matter) you end up with gear that is = to Campaign. (Slightly better imho because u can itemized it properly and the Campaign gear is itemized rather poorly) You can get (on average) one BH piece of Armor a week. Since 1.2 was released you have had more than enough time to get proper gear and be ready for HM EC.

 

2. The boss does have a Hard Mode mechanic. Did you not notice the Yellow (turns to purple) circle that gets put under a random player?

 

3. We have a mele group (2) and a ranged group(2). If you read up on the various strats, and your tanks don't mind a bit of leg work, it is totally viable to have 2 mele in that fight.

 

 

Denova Hard Mode is not easy (thank gawd).

 

It is a Heal check, DPS check, and a Tank check.

 

If your group is lacking in one of those areas HM Denova will for sure point it out.

 

It is also very unforgiving.

 

One mistake by a player can mean a wipe.

 

Try to imagine what Nightmare Mode Denova will be like.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Lutese

Toth & Zorn HM overtuned?are u serious? Full rakata or almost full rakata should be enough for those bosses and sorry for the melee,but the perfect ops dps team is 3 ranged and 1 melee only. If u put the melee guy on Toth only, u will have no problems at all mate since he doesnt get the fearfull debuff on Zorn that being there would kill him very fast. And the rest is just simple. Just make sure u have the right people geared and use a PARSER to see everyones perfomance in the DPS department.

 

Well yeah we know the perfect ops team is 1 melee only THAT IS THE PROBLEM THE WHOLE POINT OF THE POST THE STUPIDITY OF THE BOSS! and your ignorance to our actual problem has been highlighted.

There's nothing wrong with being melee heavy on this fight. Just swap the mobs on the jump instead of having DPSers stick to the same mob the whole time.

Just an FYI, if you can't beat this fight then you have very little hope of having a chance at killing any of the later bosses as well, maybe Vorgath.

 

You really just need to identify what causes someone to die during every attempt and form a plan on how to avoid that on the next go. Work for survival first then when the raid can consistently see the enrage, push for efficiency in hitting the boss. We're not asking for much, just pure perfection.

My guild was able to down Toth and Zorn once a week ago, We killed toth right as he enraged, all that was left was me (JG Tank) a healer and two DPS, so we got super lucky. Must of us are almost full Black Hole gear and we are still hitting enrage timers.

There's nothing wrong with being melee heavy on this fight. Just swap the mobs on the jump instead of having DPSers stick to the same mob the whole time.

 

OR have the tanks swap bosses/positions and the DPS stay at the same spots/bosses the whole fight.

My guild was able to down Toth and Zorn once a week ago, We killed toth right as he enraged, all that was left was me (JG Tank) a healer and two DPS, so we got super lucky. Must of us are almost full Black Hole gear and we are still hitting enrage timers.

 

That's because one automatically enrages as soon as the other one dies...

OR have the tanks swap bosses/positions and the DPS stay at the same spots/bosses the whole fight.

 

Not working with a melee-heavy group as they will get the Fearful-debuff and essentially kill themselves.

Not working with a melee-heavy group as they will get the Fearful-debuff and essentially kill themselves.

Not if they are on Toth.

Not if they are on Toth.

 

Good god, if they have more than two melees your strategy won't work, stop nitpicking...

There is no debate, we are experienced raiders, and have had ZERO problems with killing everything in the game up until this point, now we are totally stuck.

 

We still find this boss the hardest on story mode. We wipe on it more than any other boss, we have done 100 different strats and have got very close many many times, even if we do kill it. It is still over tuned. We are also suffering because we have two Sage healers. But it is not right to make us change, flat out isn't.

Not if they are on Toth.

 

The melee group on zorn will lose a lot of dps that the toth melee group will have to make up for. You actually need more dps as a melee group to get this done. I think that is what the OP is talking about.

The melee group on zorn will lose a lot of dps that the toth melee group will have to make up for. You actually need more dps as a melee group to get this done. I think that is what the OP is talking about.

We have not actually hit an enrage timer in fighting this boss, I do not think we will, we are dying when the bosses are between 1-10% after the second ground spike phase. If people are hitting the enrage i feel their pain and once again, questions must be raised on if this fight should be a little easier, if it were at least people could get some loot for the next bosses.

 

I will say again, this was the hardest boss for us, on story we almost 1 shot all the others but it took us hours to kill this on story. I would love to try other bosses, I am sure we could down them, here is the problem with totally linear progress.

I'm really sorry and don't want to sound like a dick, but if you're wiping on this in SM for hours you don't even deserve to get near the kill on HM...

Good god, if they have more than two melees your strategy won't work, stop nitpicking...

 

Correct this strat doesn't work with more than 2 mele.

 

I'M not the one who keeps adding conditions onto a statement until it is finally viable.

(cough) <pot meet kettle>

 

Granted, with 3 mele I don't see having DPS swap bosses working for a number of reasons. Do you put two mele on Toth and have one of them swap out with the 3rd on zorn when they get fearful?

 

Don't think I've read a "viable" Toth/Zorn strat which uses 3+ mele.

 

Do enlighten me.

 

Would love to know one.

I'm really sorry and don't want to sound like a dick, but if you're wiping on this in SM for hours you don't even deserve to get near the kill on HM...

 

that was back on our first run of the dungeon. all the other bosses are much easier than T+Z