If you get 10k you must do it on someone whos naked...

<< Bottom line with the current state of pvp, if there's a average smash warrior in any warzone, he'll outdamage his non-smash-warrior teammates by something like 25%. Or more. In burst. That ain't balance. >>

 

Vigilance should get buffed. Carnage maras can still pop very high numbers. AOE damage puts higher (highest) numbers on the scoreboard but the damage number on the scoreboard isn't telling the complete story of who was most important in the game - where a smasher may be popping high damage totals the carnage might be dealing higher damage to the healer. Watchman/Anni probably should do less damage because they also heal and much of their damage is internal if their target isn't getting constantly cleansed. And yeah, any number of classes is perfectly capable of topping the scoreboard in most games at the moment.

I have been hit by smash for 6.2k on my sorc with 1390 expertise and 18900hp.

Oh yea 1390 expertise is currently the highest possible ever obtainable in game... So 6.2k against 1390 expertise eh... RIGHTTTTTT.

 

Oh and before baddies come in and try to play that "get that 30% -AoE damage talent" noobcrap. News flash to bads, sorcs DONT HAVE IT. Yes this means even if I had 100 talent points to spend there's still no talent I can pick up to give me that 30% AoE reduction that all fotm has.

 

Ironically guess what, Operative also do not have AoE reduction talent. Let me rephrase that, operative is the one and only melee class in this game that does not have access to such talent.

 

Apparently people dont pvp enough to run rWZ with premades of 3 coordinating smashers maybe most servers have terribad PvP? And currently the only thing thats slowing these derpasmasher down is the chain sorc stun bubble.

 

New flash: Sorc bubble and self-heal is part of your AoE defense. So, is knockback with a root attacked.

 

Go ahead stand still and spam force lightning. Your the one inviting the Rage/Focus Warrior/Knight to drop the 'hammer' on you.

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

The problem with the Juggernaut and Guardian trees is that one of the trees is seen as no longer any good in pvp due to the amount of burst damage going on and that the tree in question doesn't do enough damage in a short amount of time. I am speaking of course about Vengeance/Vigilance.

 

If this tree got the buffs it should have gotten then Juggernauts/Guardians would not all be going Rage/Focus, and they would have an alternative that is actually far more useful in pvp (utility wise) than Rage/Focus.

Edited November 4, 2012 by MorgothQuick

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

In short you screwed up and don't like admitting it. There is a huge difference between "reviving a dead spec" which it wasn't, and allowing it to crit for infinity billion damage.

"AOE burst" is just like, *** are you thinking...

 

Not only do they have AOE burst, the same classes also have AOE crowd control and a ton of defensive cool downs.

 

No, just no - AOE crowd control + AOE burst damage can only lead to one thing: OVER POWERED.

Think about it people, would your supposedly experienced game designers: are not area affect abilities, by definition, the most potent abilities: like duh, they affect more than 1 person but originate from 1 person. Captain Obvious says, these abilities are going to be important as soon as there is more then 1 target.

 

But, hey, that is NOT enough. Lets also give the same classes a ton of defensive cool downs, even when not spec'd as tanks. This is where you have insanely broken classes with excellent defenses, aoe burst AND aoe cc it's definitely too much.

 

Unbelievable response from the so called "lead pvp designer" - monitoring the situation? REALLLY???

 

Any designer with one shred of comprehension of pvp would *INSTANTLY* know that a class with strong defence, strong AOE damage, that is also burst ANNNNDD AOE CC all in one package is absolutely going to be stupidly powerful and would not let it ever see the light of day.

 

Let alone shine on for months and months - before making the brilliant decision to remove all of it's limitations, buff it more and nerf the single target specs which weren't even a problem. Oh, and lets just buff those defensive cool downs and **** it, add more, cause these classes need help. Oh and also, why not just go ahead and buff ravage/master strike too - hey, lets make it do more damage AND be uninterruptible!

 

Just like Demtel though, that is also not enough. Let's also completely **** over anything except dps by changing expertise scaling to favour damage over everything else, cause, thats real *********** smart and community was demanding we do that. Actually, the community was urging us NOT to do that, but what do they know. WE HAS METRICS!!!!!!!

 

Monitoring the situation - I'm not sure if I should keep laughing or cry, knowing that this guy is still the lead designer *sigh*.

 

ps. You know, I've actually been playing since Beta and before anny of these buffs happened, good players already knew Marauders were strong and that Smash jugs were strong. That's right, they were good pre 1.2 and every change since has only improved them.

Edited December 11, 2012 by vermura

In short you screwed up and don't like admitting it. There is a huge difference between "reviving a dead spec" which it wasn't, and allowing it to crit for infinity billion damage.

 

they basically made their call based on how many ppl played spec, not how it was performing in game which was fine to begin with back since 1.1

Edited December 11, 2012 by NoTomorrow

"AOE burst" is just like, *** are you thinking...

 

Not only do they have AOE burst, the same classes also have AOE crowd control and a ton of defensive cool downs.

 

No, just no - AOE crowd control + AOE burst damage can only lead to one thing: OVER POWERED.

Think about it people, would your supposedly experienced game designers: are not area affect abilities, by definition, the most potent abilities: like duh, they affect more than 1 person but originate from 1 person. Captain Obvious says, these abilities are going to be important as soon as there is more then 1 target.

 

But, hey, that is NOT enough. Lets also give the same classes a ton of defensive cool downs, even when not spec'd as tanks. This is where you have insanely broken classes with excellent defenses, aoe burst AND aoe cc it's definitely too much.

 

Unbelievable response from the so called "lead pvp designer" - monitoring the situation? REALLLY???

 

Any designer with one shred of comprehension of pvp would *INSTANTLY* know that a class with strong defence, strong AOE damage, that is also burst ANNNNDD AOE CC all in one package is absolutely going to be stupidly powerful and would not let it ever see the light of day.

 

Let alone shine on for months and months - before making the brilliant decision to remove all of it's limitations, buff it more and nerf the single target specs which weren't even a problem. Oh, and lets just buff those defensive cool downs and **** it, add more, cause these classes need help. Oh and also, why not just go ahead and buff ravage/master strike too - hey, lets make it do more damage AND be uninterruptible!

 

Just like Demtel though, that is also not enough. Let's also completely **** over anything except dps by changing expertise scaling to favour damage over everything else, cause, thats real *********** smart and community was demanding we do that. Actually, the community was urging us NOT to do that, but what do they know. WE HAS METRICS!!!!!!!

 

Monitoring the situation - I'm not sure if I should keep laughing or cry, knowing that this guy is still the lead designer *sigh*.

 

ps. You know, I've actually been playing since Beta and before anny of these buffs happened, good players already knew Marauders were strong and that Smash jugs were strong. That's right, they were good pre 1.2 and every change since has only improved them.

Bashing the lead designer of pvp is something i strongly encourage at this point.

 

-Mister lead designer, lay off the pot...its causing havoc in the game we used to enjoy

This smash damages is only for sent/maurd right?

The problem is, these things are so obvious that you don't really need any sort of metrics to figure it out that's its pull BS. Why do we have to wait another 8 weeks for this to be fixed? I am one of the lucky ppl that play snipers, but anyone else is pretty much ruined currently.

Now we cross to Ollie Williams for the BlaccuPvP report. What's it look like Ollie?

 

"Shiz be broke"

So what I gather from this is that I should roll a marauder and spec smash. Got it.

Bashing the lead designer of pvp is something i strongly encourage at this point.

 

-Mister lead designer, lay off the pot...its causing havoc in the game we used to enjoy

 

Whatever the designers are smoking ain't pot. Even a stoner knows how busted class balance is in this game.

 

Makes you wonder if these guys have even been on a live server in a WZ or they just look at "metrics" and play with each other on a closed test server, oblivious to the state of their own game. Have they even played a MMO at all before?

Not sure they have. Course, when I saw all the happy birthday wishes for the lead designer who turned the ripe old age of... 29.... I kinda gave up any hope for sensible decision making in this multi-million dollar enterprise gone south.

 

No offense to the younguns, but when I was 29 I was an idiot... I'm sure I'll be saying that about every milestone age 10+ years past but really... This guy and this team are clueless.

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

Was this the rationale when you nerfed sages ZOMG 2.5k AOE in 1.2? Because if so, I can send you my damage log with 500+ 6k hits. Save yourself the man hours and go ahead and nerf it.

Edited December 12, 2012 by wbtusmc

Was this the rationale when you nerfed sages ZOMG 2.5k AOE in 1.2? Because if so, I can send you my damage log with 500+ 6k hits. Save yourself the man hours and go ahead and nerf it.

 

Yes, 3k (non-guaranteed)crits for which you had to channel until you get the proc (which made it VERY preventable) was not ok, OTOH 2 button insta 7k guaranteed crits are OK.

 

Ahahahahahahahahahah at EA and SWTOR PvP and "monitoring"

 

BTW, GOOD juggs were doing beastly damage before all the buffs.

 

So what I gather from this is that I should roll a marauder and spec smash. Got it.

 

Pretty much (if you want to be competitive), and nice side effects, when they finally deal with smashers, juggs will suffer and you will STILL play OP class with 2 OP specs. Yah, its THAT bad.

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandMike

The last rumors from PvP design team was that «Vicious Throw» ability should be redesigned.

SithWarriors should have this ability as a Hard Hitter. As it currently not do as much damage as smash, Vicious Throw damage will be buffed for 75%.

The last rumors from PvP design team was that «Vicious Throw» ability should be redesigned.

SithWarriors should have this ability as a Hard Hitter. As it currently not do as much damage as smash, Vicious Throw damage will be buffed for 75%.

 

You'd think theres something wrong in the design when a singletarget conditional 'hard hitter' isnt doing as much damage on a single target than a non-conditional AOE.

 

As a carnage marauder, I can say that Im ok with how my vicious throw is functioning, if you want to buff it, be my guest. But that smash on the other hand..

Edited December 12, 2012 by Karkais

Do they also keep an eye on miserable state of commandos/mercs too i wonder? The class sux greatly since 1.2 till 1.6. So, the smashlolboys gonna be tuned down...well in 2.2 i guess. Or the same day when they buff comm/mercs - never. Ok.

Do they also keep an eye on miserable state of commandos/mercs too i wonder? The class sux greatly since 1.2 till 1.6. So, the smashlolboys gonna be tuned down...well in 2.2 i guess. Or the same day when they buff comm/mercs - never. Ok.

 

They are "monitoring" it, so you can expect results in year or so And then some 6-12 months to actually fix it.

 

So by 2015 your class might be OK!

Edited December 12, 2012 by GrandMike

Smash can hit people for 10k AoE up to 5 people? You think I am kidding... but I am not, a friend of mine critted someone for 9k on his smash yesterday. My biggest hit on assassin is up to 7.5k and that is single hit. Yet not only can Smash/Force Sweep do more damage on a single target.... but it hits 5 people at once! There are 3 different ways to have your stacks of singularity up to accomplish this so basically every time smash is off cooldown you can land it on people with the full damage.

 

Every game you can tell who the smash specced people are. because they have at least 200k more overall damage than anyone else on the scoreboard. Sure maybe one smash specced player is not so bad. However, now since people know how powerful it is... most people that are a guardian/jugg/sent/mara just abuse the crap out of this. So teams take 2 or 3 smashes to the face for about 5-6k damage a piece if you are full WH... and up to 9-10k if your gear is horrible. Now multiply that damage by 2 or 3 because that is how many smash specced players are usually in a warzone. So if there were 3 of them... WH geared people lose 15k-18k health instantly and horribly geared players take up to 27k-30k damage. Just tell me Bioware... how is this in any way balanced?

 

Whens the last time any of you have played a operative, complaining about a jugg when your the most OP class in the game as an assasin hahahahahaha..... You must be terrible at your class. L2P problem right here with his assasin just terrible at his class.

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

Why even post this response? It's just saying nothing is changing soon...a year of gathering metrics and the game is worse than it's ever been.

Yes, 3k (non-guaranteed)crits for which you had to channel until you get the proc (which made it VERY preventable) was not ok, OTOH 2 button insta 7k guaranteed crits are OK.

 

Ahahahahahahahahahah at EA and SWTOR PvP and "monitoring"

 

BTW, GOOD juggs were doing beastly damage before all the buffs.

 

 

 

Pretty much (if you want to be competitive), and nice side effects, when they finally deal with smashers, juggs will suffer and you will STILL play OP class with 2 OP specs. Yah, its THAT bad.

 

Every time they do something it becomes more and more clear they hate operatives, mercs and sorcs- and adore marauders and juggs.

 

I left a few months after 1.2 because I was disgusted at how badly they'd nerfed sorcs while vaulting marauders to unparalleled god class status- I come back before f2p and what do I see- they've buffed marauders and juggs even more, and they're promising another nerf to sorcs- even after they nerfed our KB to be conal rather than radial, and our stun from 30 to 10m.

 

Yeah- nobody can question that BW is extremely biased now- next change to mara is probably going to be a buff too, would fit in with their **** class balance.

 

 

... oh, wait- marauders will still defend to the death that there is perfect balance- must be nice to be the favourite one huh.

Edited December 12, 2012 by fungihoujo

Whens the last time any of you have played a operative, complaining about a jugg when your the most OP class in the game as an assasin hahahahahaha..... You must be terrible at your class. L2P problem right here with his assasin just terrible at his class.

 

All these other supporters must be terrible at their class as well, I wonder who the idiot is here. The ranked warzone metagame as of right now consists of a large part smashers and a bubble specced sorc to stun people all the time. Factor in stun grenades and you have a good old time in ranked. The only thing you actually need an assassin for in ranked is to node guard. We have an instant AoE too, and it hits 3 people only, and crits them for about 4k instead of 6-7k, so try again. Unless you're talking about 1v1s in which case we win against a smasher, and that's why us shadows are picked to guard nodes or delay a node cap. However, this thread isn't really about them in 1v1s, now is it?

Edited December 13, 2012 by NamikazeNaruto

Allison actually has a point, it's a cumulative problem. One can argue that smash is slightly OP for being an AOE but the real problem is when several people are using it in the same warzone. I will not die in seconds from just one mara/sent because it's fairly easy to avoid, it's when I'm focused on avoiding the first one and run into some other random smash that it becomes a problem. It's kind of the same thing as the unintended 360 knockbacks that they got rid of. The latter wasnt even something people complained about.