First of all, there really isn't a HUGE difference between champ and bm armor. My commando gained about 500 hitpoints going from cent/champ to now bm/champ. I have all battlemaster but gloves, boots, legs. everything else is champ. Even the expertise gain is only like +5 per piece. But that isn't the complaint.

My complaint is that pvp armor isn't the best armor for pvp. I'm seeing people in WZ's with 7000 more hitpoints than me. People I've NEVER seen in a wz. So meanwhile I'm valor 65, a full battlemaster, with nearly 100% bm gear some guy that watched a video on youtube on how to beat raid boss now has better gear than me? With better set bonuses. Better dps stats? I've seen assassins with 23k hitpoints. And they hit like trucks even though i've got near 12.5% mitigation in pvp... supposedly. I've seen sorcs with 18k hitpoints. What? even if i stim up I only barely break 17k hitpoints... and I have every endurance bonus in my skill trees. And I wear heavy armor, which doesn't mean diddly-squat in this game since I'd run around naked in my underwear to have a sorc bubble.

So basically the best gear for pvp is now rakata gear. Which means more mindless pve'ers having better gear than me in pvp. wow, makes so much sense bioware.

the difference is mainly in expertise i belive im fresh BM dont have enough gear pieces yet but yes the sats goes up just a lil bit...

the ppl u see with more hp are with tanking gear no surge no crit on it....

I completely agree,

Champion bags now contain 7 champ tokens, 15 centurion tokens,

Battlemaster bags have about a 2.5-5% chance for a BM token and the other 95% of the time you get 3 champion tokens

Champion gear is almost equal to battlemaster (4-5 expertise more per piece and a minor stat boost)

A skilled champ will always beat an average battlemaster

People stop playing their BM toons because it's pointless to play after your dailys have been done

I see BM sorcs with 16k hp while rakata sorcs go with 19k hp and around 45% crit chance and 750 force bonus just from rakata gear.

Expertise scales badly as more as you get.

I'm afraid I'll start alting too if dailys are the only way to have another ****** RNG chance to get 1 BM token.

PS : BM mods are terrible, terrible stats. Sorcerers don't need a ton of alacrity or accuracy

Especially the accuracy on BM mods is horrible, there's no surge on main pieces, only implants. Just horrible. Something needs to be done, not cross server pvp or extra warzones.

What's the whole point of that if all battlemasters just play 3 warzones a day.

My complaint is that pvp armor isn't the best armor for pvp. I'm seeing people in WZ's with 7000 more hitpoints than me.

So? If they are running 0 Expertise and you have plenty you are getting a damage reduction for incoming, and a damage increase for out going, and a Heal boost. That 7000 HP is a buffer for them to help compensate for how much harder you are going to hit them compared to wet noodle swats they will take at you.

I guess people have differant opinions on this but i believe gear dosent make the player. the player makes the player. I have noticed that in alot cases ive seen people with worse gear destroy someone with better gear due to his playing skill being way better. But to each his own i guess

Well hello Captain Obvious. Too bad that isn't what this is about. All things being equal skill wise, the guy with the pvp gear should be able to beat a clone of himself in rakata gear. Why? because rakata gear took zero intelligence to obtain. How hard is to stand up against a wall, spam heals, stay out of circles and do EXACTLY what the youtube video tells you to do. Whereas the pvp guy, in the pvp environment has not had a single battle that went exactly the same as a previous battle. It isn't scripted.

My bm gear doesn't make me as competitive as the rakata guy in a raid encounter, does it? Obviously not.

Personally, I think even an IQ85er in battlemaster gear should be able to destroy someone sporting their PVE gear.

Think about it. people complained about how level 50s outclassed (and they did, make no mistake i can tell when someone isnt geared up for pvp when i can smoke them while keyboard turning and clicking sparklie icons while I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.) I and I can tell who the ungeared, yet good pvp'ers are. In those cases I have to put my sandwich down.

If everyone had or eventually got bm gear then the playing field is the same for the most part. and thats when skill takes over. However, now you can just stand in line for pve gear at the local boss mob dispensary that is only going to throw the playing field out of whack again. And some terrible player with rakata gear, can outshine a good or modest pvp'er simply because he has 7 or 8k more hitpoints than them. I don't care what gear you have. In my case, I dont have the energy resource(ammo) to take down somone that has 23k, 24k hitpoints before my hitpoints are drained. I find myself blowing EVERY SINGLE cooldown i have trying to bring them down. And they just hack and slash my teammates apart if they aren't chasing me.

the amount of health gain throws everything out of whack. it completely changes how I'd have to burst them. Yet, they don't have to change a thing because their dps is going to be increased with rakata gear AND their hitpoints.

And I don't want to be a raider. I'm a pvper. leave the pvp realm to the pvp realm. I didn't endure getting owned by 50's, and then after the bracket patch I didn't endure battlemasters without my chance to own on lvl 10-49ers. (i turned 50 the day before the bracket patch). And I didn't endure getting ownd by battlemasters till I got my battlemaster gear just to finally make it to the top only to find out that I know have to play the raid boss game too... which doesn't interest me.

Why not give space combat masters good pvp gear? Makes about as much sense.

The game is already too heavily gear driven there is really no point to making it more so.

A lot of us like skill to be a factor when we pvp.

First of all, there really isn't a HUGE difference between champ and bm armor. My commando gained about 500 hitpoints going from cent/champ to now bm/champ. I have all battlemaster but gloves, boots, legs. everything else is champ. Even the expertise gain is only like +5 per piece. But that isn't the complaint.

 

My complaint is that pvp armor isn't the best armor for pvp. I'm seeing people in WZ's with 7000 more hitpoints than me. People I've NEVER seen in a wz. So meanwhile I'm valor 65, a full battlemaster, with nearly 100% bm gear some guy that watched a video on youtube on how to beat raid boss now has better gear than me? With better set bonuses. Better dps stats? I've seen assassins with 23k hitpoints. And they hit like trucks even though i've got near 12.5% mitigation in pvp... supposedly. I've seen sorcs with 18k hitpoints. What? even if i stim up I only barely break 17k hitpoints... and I have every endurance bonus in my skill trees. And I wear heavy armor, which doesn't mean diddly-squat in this game since I'd run around naked in my underwear to have a sorc bubble.

 

So basically the best gear for pvp is now rakata gear. Which means more mindless pve'ers having better gear than me in pvp. wow, makes so much sense bioware.

Actually hte BM is sometimes worse than champion. I remember having to wait for purchasing the T3 lightsaber because i was LOSING damage compared to T2. So i got other pieces first to absorb the damage reduction from lightsaber which was mainly providing an upgrade in crit rate with lower consistent damage.

Actually hte BM is sometimes worse than champion. I remember having to wait for purchasing the T3 lightsaber because i was LOSING damage compared to T2. So i got other pieces first to absorb the damage reduction from lightsaber which was mainly providing an upgrade in crit rate with lower consistent damage.

T3 should be 146 ilvl.

And we need T4 asap.

I guess people have differant opinions on this but i believe gear dosent make the player. the player makes the player. I have noticed that in alot cases ive seen people with worse gear destroy someone with better gear due to his playing skill being way better. But to each his own i guess

Not quite true full champion or BM gear will destroy someone in all pve gear because of damage reduction and added. If you have all that gear and get beat by someone in full pve gear. Do not complain go to all programs and uninstall SWTOR becuase you just need to quit playing.

As far as orginal post. I wear 7 pieces of BM gear 2 pieces of tier 1.2 can never remember how to spell the name rest is champion gear and I am commando i have over 17k health. I think a mix of the gear is best and the pve gear was a lot easier to get just for the 2 piece set bonus.

First of all, there really isn't a HUGE difference between champ and bm armor. My commando gained about 500 hitpoints going from cent/champ to now bm/champ. I have all battlemaster but gloves, boots, legs. everything else is champ. Even the expertise gain is only like +5 per piece. But that isn't the complaint.

 

My complaint is that pvp armor isn't the best armor for pvp. I'm seeing people in WZ's with 7000 more hitpoints than me. People I've NEVER seen in a wz. So meanwhile I'm valor 65, a full battlemaster, with nearly 100% bm gear some guy that watched a video on youtube on how to beat raid boss now has better gear than me? With better set bonuses. Better dps stats? I've seen assassins with 23k hitpoints. And they hit like trucks even though i've got near 12.5% mitigation in pvp... supposedly. I've seen sorcs with 18k hitpoints. What? even if i stim up I only barely break 17k hitpoints... and I have every endurance bonus in my skill trees. And I wear heavy armor, which doesn't mean diddly-squat in this game since I'd run around naked in my underwear to have a sorc bubble.

 

So basically the best gear for pvp is now rakata gear. Which means more mindless pve'ers having better gear than me in pvp. wow, makes so much sense bioware.

^this

its a *********** joke that pve/pvp mix > pure pvp.

Actually hte BM is sometimes worse than champion. I remember having to wait for purchasing the T3 lightsaber because i was LOSING damage compared to T2. So i got other pieces first to absorb the damage reduction from lightsaber which was mainly providing an upgrade in crit rate with lower consistent damage.

i hear what you are saying. Especially since I used all my duplicate champ peices to mix and match mods for the stats I wanted. Now, some of the BM gear is going to add stats I just don't want. Guess I'll have to get full BM and then more BM pieces to flip mods. Meanwhile the rakata guy has the stuff everyone wants for PvP...

So? If they are running 0 Expertise and you have plenty you are getting a damage reduction for incoming, and a damage increase for out going, and a Heal boost. That 7000 HP is a buffer for them to help compensate for how much harder you are going to hit them compared to wet noodle swats they will take at you.

thats the whole point, they shouldnt be able to compensate. its a complete joke that a pve guy whos god aweful at pvp can have gear that is on par with the best pvp gear.

Not quite true full champion or BM gear will destroy someone in all pve gear because of damage reduction and added. If you have all that gear and get beat by someone in full pve gear. Do not complain go to all programs and uninstall SWTOR becuase you just need to quit playing.

 

As far as orginal post. I wear 7 pieces of BM gear 2 pieces of tier 1.2 can never remember how to spell the name rest is champion gear and I am commando i have over 17k health. I think a mix of the gear is best and the pve gear was a lot easier to get just for the 2 piece set bonus.

yes i agree im talking about like centurian gear vs BM gear mostly

Expertise has diminishing returns.

Play smart. Get enough expertise then use pve gear in the other slots (better primary stat & end).

Or play stupid, but I don't think BW can patch out stupidity so you're on your own if you choose this.

The game is already too heavily gear driven there is really no point to making it more so.

 

A lot of us like skill to be a factor when we pvp.

then dont play a PvP MMO because they reduce the skill part of the equation.

As the the OP i totally agree. The whole point of an expertise stat is to seperate PvE gear rom PvP. It was made (to the best of my knowledge) in WoW when Pvpers complained they had to do all the high end raids to get the best gear to be able to PvP.

So a pvp stat was made, that made PvP gear better than PvE gear for PvP and most importantly could be earned from PvP. I think it says a lot about bioware and the best pvp team in the buisness that even with a PvP stat they riped off from another game the PvE gear is still better for PvP.....it almost like they dont understnad at all.

thats the whole point, they shouldnt be able to compensate. its a complete joke that a pve guy whos god aweful at pvp can have gear that is on par with the best pvp gear.

fyi a pvp player who is god awful at pvp can get the best pvp gear.

I fail to see the point.

:edit:

I could get a char to BM without winning a single match.

So? If they are running 0 Expertise and you have plenty you are getting a damage reduction for incoming, and a damage increase for out going, and a Heal boost. That 7000 HP is a buffer for them to help compensate for how much harder you are going to hit them compared to wet noodle swats they will take at you.

They aren't running 0 expertise. Since Champ gear has no valor requirement. And Especially now that you can just buy your champ gear (no more duplicates) and bags give out ungodly amounts of comms. Basically 2 bags gets you a piece of armor now, whereas I'd go days without getting a piece of champ armor even though I'm 100% in pvp. They take champ armor and put in rakata mods and enhancements. Use rakata implants, ears, relics.

Basically, you can easily get a 2 piece rakata set bonus + 2 piece champ gear bonus + champ gear fitted with rakata mods + rakata accessories and you have the ultimate pvp setup. And you can do all of that at valor rank 10 and running easy raids and doing lame ilum and bels daily's which are mostly soloable. Wheras I need to be valor rank 60 and hope to god my bag has a bm token.

fyi a pvp player who is god awful at pvp can get the best pvp gear.

 

I fail to see the point.

 

 

:edit:

 

I could get a char to BM without winning a single match.

looking forward to see you get bm token from ur daily without winning a single match.

this thing between ur shoulders is called a head, inside there, there is supposed to be a brain, try to use it sometimes....

I have a full columi suit and 4 pieces of Rakata armor already and I got to tell you, it's not as good as you'd imagine when compared to pvp gear.

The expertise is grossly underestimated. I do 10% more dmg to them and they do 10% less dmg to me, and we have the same armor rating, defense chance, etc.

If you don't swap the mods out, the majority of your columi, rakata is going to be accuracy heavy which, while nice, isn't nearly as nice as stacking crit and surge for the bursty dps needed in PvP.

The mix of gear depends on your class and set bonuses. If you're a commando you're going to want a mix of the two so you can get that extra crit chance on grav round plus some other goodies.

Oh... if you think it's unfair that raid people get free epics all the time, don't complain, join them.

Once you get in the groove you can farm both EV and KP on normal in 1 night and get tier 2. Do hard / nightmare for rakata and that's on par with battlemaster.... in theory.

They aren't running 0 expertise. Since Champ gear has no valor requirement. And Especially now that you can just buy your champ gear (no more duplicates) and bags give out ungodly amounts of comms. Basically 2 bags gets you a piece of armor now, whereas I'd go days without getting a piece of champ armor even though I'm 100% in pvp. They take champ armor and put in rakata mods and enhancements. Use rakata implants, ears, relics.

Two bags is 14 coms - 21 for the relic is the cheapest isnt it, after that its 41? 67 100 and something.

thats the whole point, they shouldnt be able to compensate. its a complete joke that a pve guy whos god aweful at pvp can have gear that is on par with the best pvp gear.

who cares? Gear is Gear... If its only equal that super leet skilled pvper should win everytime vs that carebear pve'er in raid gear...

Once upon a time MMO's didn't have different rulesets for pvp.

And i really hate to break it to you.. The MMO genre has matured and most people are capable of being good at both. Heck most only pvpers are average at best. Some of the best pvpers i have ever played with across many games have excelled in both PVP and PVE..

Good example is the #1 guild in this game. They are good at pve and some of the better pvpers i have played with.

Considering all the baddie Imps that just farmed Ilum to get BM purely from 5-1+ spawncamping.....my response to this is:

No f'ing way.

Besides if you can't beat a person in champ gear when you have full BM gear, then you are bad.

looking forward to see you get bm token from ur daily without winning a single match.

 

this thing between ur shoulders is called a head, inside there, there is supposed to be a brain, try to use it sometimes....

The things on the front of the aforementioned head are eyes.

Use them to read what I posted.

Did I say I could get BM *GEAR* without winning?

Or did I say get BM. As in, the valor rank.

Getting to 60 valor takes 0 skill. Getting 3 kills per day takes hardly any skill.

Bad pvpers can get BM rank & gear, just like bad pvpers can get Rakata gear.