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BW's first big mistake - the Era.


DPCummerbund

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I'm not saying the game isn't enjoyable as it is, or that the story for this era isn't allowed to be better than the original trilogy. I'm just saying that for the casual gamer and casual Star Wars fan, the more closely it sticks to the original trilogy, the better.

 

And I'm not saying that there aren't any cool Star Wars elements. I think the Jedi & Sith powers are very well done. And my BH feels very much like I would expect a BH to be.

 

And there definitely are some good "trilogy" companions, like Jawas and Wookies. I think it would have been better to get them before other non-trilogy companions.

 

For example, I've lost count of the number of bugs & monsters I've slain. Whether it's rakghouls on Taris or Killiks on Alderaan, i've killed a lot of bugs. But I think I've only fought a handful of rancors, and no AT-ATs or AT-STs.

First 2 post should've answered your question. No at-at or at-st because they don't exist yet per game time line.

And this era is fine for an mmo..Mr. Lucas has a tight reign on what you can and can not do in the timeline he created. Ergo why they did it in the past, as long as it doesn't meddle with what is in the movies or what Lucas has in his "bible" then they are free to do want they can, with permission of course.

As an example, I'm pretty sure that Mr. Lucas said no to any type of jedi wookies , that was after Lowbacca btw.

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If it wasn't in the Old Republic era, even fewer people would play. Why?

 

Everyone wants lightsabers. And this is one of the only eras where there are numerous Jedi and Sith.

 

People forget that SWG didn't originally allow you to be a Force user.

 

^^ This. The Rule of Two with the Sith was not in effect yet - although we can certainly see why it happened - the Empire would never prosper with all the Sith Machinations going on. People want to be Jedi, they want to be Sith.

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SWG was in the original trilogy era and that certainly did not play out better

 

Personally I think this era was the best choice, things are recognizable, but still removed far enough to have freedom artistically and storywise

 

QFT! For example, SWG was set at a point in the timeline we all know and there lies the limitations........Devs have to lay out content in accordance with the lore, unless you want to really throw it out of the window (a la SOE and the 1000000's of jedi parading around when according to lore there were a handful) and alieneate the fans of the IP. this era was the best choice with more oppportunities for real original material which fits, without compromising the lore.

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So as I'm approaching level 50 with my first toon, I must say I'm disappointed with the level of "Star Warsyness" of this game. I would assume that BW and EA were willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a game is the huge base of people out there who are Star Wars fans. Any by "Star Wars fans", I mean people who watched & liked the original trilogy.

 

For example, why does this Darth Malgus character show up all over the place? How many more people would play this game if it was Darth Vader?

 

So far, the only planets I've really liked are Tatooine and Hoth, and Alderaan. Before playing this game, I had never heard of Taris, or Nar Shadda, or Belsavis, or any of those other planets.

 

Okay, I sort of remember the Twi'lek dancers, so that's kind of cool. But who are the Mirakula, or whatever they're called? And those Chiss, or the Sith?

 

I'm sure lots of people who are familiar with the "Extended Universe" get all excited for references to Darth Revan, but the average person doesn't. Darth Revan wasn't worth a $100 million MMORPG. Darth Vader would be.

 

The simple fact is that Jedis were rare in Vader's time and you can't have a Star Wars game unless anyone can play a Jedi. I think BW/EA/Lucas choose the exact right time.

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The game exposes you to planets and lore that are mere sketched outlines in the movies. They expanded lore detail for you and you complain about it.

 

Conclusion: you want to play an MMO in the movie timeline. That's fine, but you know... they did not hide the fact that the lore was in a different timeline. You purchased it knowing this.

 

I agree with this^ OP. This isn't Star Wars A New Hope. It wasn't meant to be. They chose KOTOR as the compelling element. And why not. KOTOR is widely acknowledged as one of the best RPGs of all time. It sold millions of copies. And what's more, the KOTOR universe gave BW the ability to create and explore new aspects of a Star Wars story without being bound by the convention of the New Hope timeline.

 

It works perfectly. Story is the strongest element of the game.

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SWG was in the original trilogy era and that certainly did not play out better

 

Personally I think this era was the best choice, things are recognizable, but still removed far enough to have freedom artistically and storywise

 

I'd have to agree. SWG suffered from two major era problems to me. One, it was stuck in the time period between Episodes 4 and 5 and so as people have said left the scope from any story development pretty minimal and when they did it tended to be at odds with canon. Two, the Jedi/Sith problem although in the expanded universe there were apparently a few other force users floating around in this period, realistically there are only 3 lightsiders and 2 darksiders around according to the films. SOE never really got round this problem and the fact that people want to play force-users. Period immersion was broken quite a lot by having 20 or 30 people running around in social hubs with sabers.

Edited by AidenCast
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SWG was in the original trilogy era and that certainly did not play out better

 

Personally I think this era was the best choice, things are recognizable, but still removed far enough to have freedom artistically and storywise

 

I agree, the original trilogy did not give them much wiggle room, but heck later on they pretty much threw cannon out the window any way..

 

This era gives the teams some writing room..

Edited by kevlarto
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Are you kidding? He was in every single cinematic leading up to the game's release.

 

He kills Satele Shan's Master, Kao Den Darach. He kills Darth Vindican, his own Master. He leads the assault on the Jedi Temple and destroys it. He kills Master Ven Zallow, the leader of the Temple. He's there in the assault of Alderaan. He nearly kills Satele Shan AND Jace Malcolm by himself!

 

He orchestrates everything the Empire does. Every single flashpoint is a single stroke of his master plan. He has the players go to Hammer Station in order to obtain the Advocent technology. He has the players go attack Clan Varad in order to gain an allegiance of a competing Mandalorian Clan. He has players track down and kill Darth Revan so he can control the Foundry. He has the players perform in the Colicoid War games to have access to their weaponry. He has the players assault the Red Reaper and kill his Master's master, Darth Ikoral, to ensure that the Pureblood Hegemony will not return to the Empire.

 

Then when all of this is complete, he performs a coup d'etat, using every single element of all the previous flashpoints as his own tools to become the New Emperor so he could make the Sith Empire more like the Republic.

 

Can you please put Spoiler tags around that? I don't think people would appreciate the flashpoints being spoiled for them. Thank you!

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I'm just saying that for the casual gamer and casual Star Wars fan, the more closely it sticks to the original trilogy, the better.

 

That is so untrue IMO OP. A "casual" Star Wars Fan wouldn't care any of those stuff. He wouldn't even distinguish The Original Trilogy from the Prequel one. He wouldn't care that this is set 3000 years before the Battle of Yavin. He probably wouldn't even know when that was. What he would care about is that it is called "Star Wars"; It's a game and it has Lightsabers, the Force and cool looking Bad Guys. What you are describing would more likely fit to a Die Hard Fan of the Original Trilogy that thinks everything other than the Original Trilogy is blasphemy. Do you get what I'm saying? I hope that made sense lol

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SWG was in the original trilogy era and that certainly did not play out better

 

Personally I think this era was the best choice, things are recognizable, but still removed far enough to have freedom artistically and storywise

 

I will bet anything I own SWG will be around longer than TOR. (as i wait for the server cap to to lift on basilisk). Tor wont last half as long as galaxies did in retail and it will never get the dedication the EMU has. In fact i would not be surprised if LA re-opened galaxies becauseI think it would net them more subscription$$ than this does.

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The rule of two is the perfect explanation as to why this era was a good choice. The rule of two was implemented by Darth Bane after the Battle of Ruusan when he tricked all the other sith lords into destroying themselves with the thought bomb. The rule of two states that there should never be more than two sith at any one time. One to hold the power, and one to crave it. So, how would players get to be sith in an era when there are only allowed to be two sith? This is one of the reasons why they picked this era to make the game take place in... that and also because this is supposed to be KoTOR 3, 4, and 5 all rolled into one if I remember correctly from one of the videos they posted back before the game ever even hit the beta testing stage. If you never played Knights of the Old Republic (1 and 2), I would suggest you try them out. You'll understand more of the storyline for this game if you do. Edited by Artrii
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I'd have to agree. SWG suffered from two major era problems to me. One, it was stuck in the time period between Episodes 4 and 5 and so as people have said left the scope from any story development pretty minimal and when they did it tended to be at odds with canon. Two, the Jedi/Sith problem although in the expanded universe there were apparently a few other force users floating around in this period, realistically there are only 3 lightsiders and 2 darksiders around according to the films. SOE never really got round this problem and the fact that people want to play force-users. Period immersion was broken quite a lot by having 20 or 30 people running around in social hubs with sabers.

 

When it was made a starting profesion and Visabillity was thrown out it was ruined. I think I saw 1-2 sabers the first couple years I played and normally you would only see them in PVP. Most Jedi did not want visabillity and those that didn't care had a BH after them all the time and that was the price of too many jedi.

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The thing is I absolutely loved kotor and had a great time with the story and the new setting apart from the movies. Now moving along to tor, I don't have that same feeling anymore. This game at times doesn't even look like star wars to me, it looks like any other themepark mmo on the market with an occasional glowing lightsaber to remind me it's star wars. The music in this game could be better, IMO they really should of used alot more of the iconic soundtracks heard from the movies because some of the music in this game is very boring, and I shudder to think about that tune that plays on the fleet.
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That is so untrue IMO OP. A "casual" Star Wars Fan wouldn't care any of those stuff. He wouldn't even distinguish The Original Trilogy from the Prequel one. He wouldn't care that this is set 3000 years before the Battle of Yavin. He probably wouldn't even know when that was. What he would care about is that it is called "Star Wars"; It's a game and it has Lightsabers, the Force and cool looking Bad Guys. What you are describing would more likely fit to a Die Hard Fan of the Original Trilogy that thinks everything other than the Original Trilogy is blasphemy. Do you get what I'm saying? I hope that made sense lol

 

Yes, I agree completely. "Die Hard Fan of the Original Trilogy that thinks everything other than the Original Trilogy is blasphemy" fits me to a T. It also fits almost everybody I know.

 

Perhaps it's an age thing. Those of us who grew up watching the Original Trilogy over and over again consider it to be the only "canon". The other trilogy is usually known as "that one with Jar Jar in it, and the whiny emo Anakin", or something to that effect.

 

I think that population is huge. For example, I work in a bookstore that sells all the Star Wars books, and lots of other original trilogy stuff (bobbleheads, vinyl, etc.). The original trilogy merchandise probably outsells all the other "Expanded Universe" stuff 10 to 1. Everybody wants a Boba Fett bobblehead or a Yoda alarm clock or whatnot, and relatively few people care about the EU stuff. The only exception to this I'd make is for the Clone Wars kids books.

 

 

I kinda agree with the OP. If the game was stronger I would not care but the game has a number of issues which could have been ignored had I felt the game was more star wars episodes IV - VI and less episode 1.

 

Yeah, I agree with this too. I'd be far more willing to put up with bugs and other problems if I got to go help some Ewoks kick some stormtrooper butt or something.

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SWG was in the original trilogy era and that certainly did not play out better

 

Personally I think this era was the best choice, things are recognizable, but still removed far enough to have freedom artistically and storywise

 

exactly

 

This era is so rich and mostly uncovered that EA had a creative licence to go crazy with it.

 

The era is fine.

The era is perfect

 

After SWG, I wouldnt have played anouther Star Wars MMORPG set in Vaders timeline as its all to restrictive and doesnt allow for endless numbers of jedi and sith like Old republic does.

 

PS: OP im pushing 48 years old (as our most of my friends) and not one of us think limiting ourselfs to original trilogy timeline is the right thing to do!

 

Trust me, its NOT a age thing, its your thing, dont mix up the two.

 

There is far more to Star Wars then Vader and even the most casual of casual Star Wars fan now knows this.

Edited by Kalfear
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The era is fine. If they used the classic era they would have to content with Lucas Arts cross-referencing every little bit of content they add against the existing lore and that would really delay any new content even further.

 

In SWG for example, players never were able to do anything of major consequence that affected the overall story-arch of the classic era. At least in the Old Republic era we can kill characters, etc.

Edited by Tomb-Stone
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Perhaps it's an age thing. Those of us who grew up watching the Original Trilogy over and over again consider it to be the only "canon".

Speak for yourself.

 

I'm 36. I grew up watching Star Wars religiously. I had they toys, I watched the cartoons, I had the "Book and Record" adaptations of the movies, and so on. I wanted to be Han Solo as a kid. When Lucas released the Star Wars SE DVDs for the second time, I bought them even though I already had them because Lucas had included the original theatrical releases as bonus features. I believe that Han didn't shoot first because Greedo never had the chance to shoot second. I believe that Sebastian Shaw belongs in Return of the Jedi as the ghost of Anakin Skywalker. Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi still are my favorite movies of all time.

 

And I believe that setting any sort of MMORPG in the time period of those movies would be horribly restricting. I played SWG; it was a bad game made slightly better by being Star Wars. But it was too restricting. All the cool stuff from the movies was off limits, because the heroes were destined to do those things.

 

I also play the Star Wars RPG. My favorite era for that is the Old Republic. The reason for that is because it's pretty much completely open as to what you can do with it. Between TOR and the Ruusan Reformations, there's a period of about 2600 years about which nothing has been written. That's a hell of a blank canvas.

 

This game is not perfect. It's far from it. And for all the mistakes Bioware has made in this game, the time period isn't one of them.

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Perhaps it's an age thing. Those of us who grew up watching the Original Trilogy over and over again consider it to be the only "canon"..

 

Real Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

 

Can you please put Spoiler tags around that? I don't think people would appreciate the flashpoints being spoiled for them. Thank you!

 

http://i.imgur.com/rXTpn.gif

Edited by RazielHex
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The era is fine. If they used the classic era they would have to content with Lucas Arts cross-referencing every little bit of content they add against the existing lore and that would really delay any new content even further.

 

In SWG for example, players never were able to do anything of major consequence that affected the overall story-arch of the classic era. At least in the Old Republic era we can kill characters, etc.

 

Ah, Now I get it. This is the first explanation that makes sense.

 

BW: Can we get Darth Vader in the game?

Lucas: No.

BW: Can players run around in an AT-AT?

Lucas: No.

BW: Can we meet Obi-Wan?

Lucas: No.

BW: :(

 

And as for whether people like the original trilogy or the Extended Universe and such, read this article, where George Lucas says that he won't bother making a third trilogy because everybody hated the prequel and gets mad when he messes with the original trilogy.

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And as for whether people like the original trilogy or the Extended Universe and such, read this article, where George Lucas says that he won't bother making a third trilogy because everybody hated the prequel and gets mad when he messes with the original trilogy.

 

George Lucas is a great editor.

 

He's *not* a talented director.

 

He could do screenplays of, say, Zahn's New Empire series (known as the "Thrawn Trilogy") and that would be great, as long as he never touched a camera.

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SWG was, is, fully SW inmersive. It made you feel a citizen of a galaxy involved in a civil war. The problem was not the era. Mismanagement (same problem we're seeing in SWTOR) and bugs aside, the first bad blow to the game was allow everybody bacame jedi through hologrinding. IN that very moment all world PVP stopped (at least in my server and I don't have reasons to think it was the only one) and the game became an insane hologrinding to unlock the jedi. Something not too bad if perma-death were not removed and Bounty Hunters were not bugged. But perma-death was removed and BHs, as far as I know, never were fixed, so in no time the servers were filled with jedis swinging lighsaber in cantinas and spaceports, not mention that that even broke more PVP because jedi was an alpha class insanely overpowered.

 

I'm sure the game would do great (if all bug and broken classes were fixed, instead of nerf them) with jedi perma-death and keeping secret the way to unlock jedi or making unique for each player unlock jedi, and never easy. Hologrinding not only was a dumb way to unlock jedi, it was also against lore: Luke never had to open a holocron to become force sensitive. In fact he knew he was FS throug a quest that started with the 2 droids his uncle bought to the jawas. It was clear that that was the way to unlock FS for SWG players: a personal and unique quest hard to get and way harder to complete. We never had that. Well, we had a timid try of that path with the village after CU, but again was more or less the same for everbody and in the end and insane endless grind.

 

Finally LA forced SOE to revamp the whole game and release NGE making jedi just a class like any other. They simply shoot themselves in the head.

 

Before CU the game was stable around 300K subs. After CU it dropped below 250K, and after NGE felt under 150K and kept loosing subs 'till the day it was closed. So no, it was not that jedi was not originally in the game because NGE never recovered lost subs and even lost players every year. Were all the bad decissions devs and responsibles (including LA) made based on the idea that their players were mindless kids that wanted swing lighsabers.

 

Another proof: SWTOR is full of jedis and is incapable of keep a stable player base.

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