The SWTOR appearance customization system is horrid and costing Bioware revenue

 

 

Dye System

 

The dye system in this game is the worse I have seen in any game to date. I have been playing graphic based MMOs since Ultima Online and Meridian 69 and SWTOR has managed to create a system worse than games that were released almost 20 years ago.

 

Not only are the dyes one time use, they are preset with no way to mix and match the colours a player may want. Because of how slowly colours are released on the Cartel Market, players may never see the two mixes of colours they wish, and if it is rare may have to pay millions on the GTN for a single use dye.

 

Many of the armors do not even dye fully. The new Ambitious Armor set is an example of this where the side skirts of the armor stay the same pale brown no matter what dyes are used. Pale Brown with Dark Red and Black...

 

If the dyes were saved in a collection per character and could be used at any time the system would be much more flexible. The Cartel Market would not suffer from such a system because players would still have to collect multiple of the same dye for their other characters.

 

If Bioware released more dye combinations faster, they could easily produce more revenue even with a dye collection system.

 

 

Adaptive Armor

 

Great idea for customizing stats for that one set of gear you will always use, horrible idea for players that enjoy changing their outfit often or for generating revenue on the Cartel Market.

 

The current system allows players to remove all 35 mods (26 stat modifiers + 9 augments) from their armor and weapons and place them in another set of armor and weapons to change their outfit; but this system is bloated, cumbersome and can be cost prohibitive once players reach end game.

 

End game a player can expect to see a cost of about 280k to remove the primary stat mods and an additional 81k to remove the 9 augments, but also a cost of over 1 million to add MK9 augment slots to the new outfit. That is about 1.3 million just to change the look of your characters outfit end game.

 

Nothing about the current system is fun and easy to use. No player is changing their outfit to match the planet they are on and no player is changing their outfit on the fly just to fool around or roleplay.

 

This current system also stops players from purchasing many of the great outfits sold on the Cartel Market. Why would players want to spend real money on an outfit then have to turn around and spend another 1.3 million just to change their characters look?

 

There are too many steps and too high a cost to make changing a characters outfit appealing for more than the rare occasion.

 

 

Legacy Bound Gear

 

Legacy Bound Gear is slowly killing the desire to use outfits once players reach end game. With Legacy Bound Gear players can pass whole sets of modified armor between their characters that sever. If a player has multiple max level characters, it is much faster to concentrate on using the highest commendations from multiple 55s to build one set at a time and use the lower commendations to build lesser sets for everyone else, then share the sets between characters that use the same stats.

 

Why bother removing all 35 mods and adding MK9 augments to a new outfit, then reapplying all the mods to the new outfit with an initial cost of over 1.3 million just to change a characters outfit? The current system is such a time consuming and expensive process that Legacy Bound Gear is the only smart choice if you have multiple level 55s.

 

 

Money Sink

 

This is the primary argument players use to support the current appearance system. If players are rarely taking out their mods once they have 1 outfit or Legacy Bound set built... how productive is this system as a money sink?

 

Why not build a system which has a much smaller cost but allows players to change their characters outfit on the fly when ever they wish with the click of one button? How much money would a system which is easy and fun to use, a system which every player at every level is willing to use, remove from the game if properly implemented?

 

 

Appearance Tabs

 

Appearance Tabs is an appearance system that was mastered by Turbine when they developed Lord of the Rings Online. Each character has 1 primary equipment page and 7 outfit pages which mirror the primary equipment page. Any equipment placed in the outfit pages is purely done so for cosmetic purposes as no stats are added to the character from the those pages. All equipment in the primary and outfit pages can be visually turned on and off much like players can turn toggle helms in SWTOR. In LOTRO you can use the toggle option to layer multiple items from the various pages to create countless outfits from the 8 different pages available. Players may keep multiple pages active or turn whole pages off with one click.

 

This gives players the ability to create outfits on the fly and change their outfit any time they wish with the touch of a button and gives the devs a continuous source of revenue. Players are not stuck with one set of gear. They do not have to stop what they are doing to travel to Fleet and purchase new MK9s and use the Crafting Station to reapply copies of augment slots they already own on another outfit. Players do not have to remove 35 mods from their equipment and plug them back into another set of gear just to change their outfit.

 

In LOTRO, if a players mood changes or they go from a dry hostile planet to a cold and forbidden planet they can click one button to change their outfit, of if they find a new item while playing they can immediately place that item in an outfit slot for a new look. Players in LOTRO are constantly purchasing and collecting new sets of gear from start to end game because of how easy their outfits can be changed.

 

The Appearance Tab system that Turbine developed promotes the purchasing of new outfits. In SWTOR no player would think of keeping 7 outfits in their inventory fully augmented with MK9s just so they can change their characters outfit when they go from Tatooine to Hoth to Belsavis then party on Nar Shadda.

 

 

Dead End

 

The outfit system is SWTOR is a dead end. It is not fun to use, requires time to change out all the modificiations, has a high cost each time, and has to compete with Legacy Bound gear.

 

Bioware, you are losing revenue with your overly complex and restrictive outfit system. You are also losing players like me, who are inspired to spend their money and play this game when they love the look of their character but get bored and quit when they find the process too much work in this beautiful game.

 

A business model that relies on people buying lots of armours should not add barriers to prevent people from buying lots of armours.

Edited March 13, 2014 by illgot

I agree. The high cost of changing out my end-game gear is a big reason that I stopped buying packs or even checking out what new looks were available a few months ago. And the single-use dye system is a bad joke.

Nice to see a nicely thought out constructive thread. I for one buy lots of the armour sets off the GTN but rarely equip them. The suggestions made would improve things greatly. I don't agree with all of it but a lot of what you said made good sense.

 

Thank you for posting I hope the devs have a good read of it.

I'll mostly agree with your assessment. I wouldn't say it's terrible, but it is definitely about 15 years out-of-date.

 

However, appearance customization is now their cash cow. They have monetized their weaknesses, charged people extra to fix them, and have most people actually happy about it. Pretty ingenious, if only they could use their powers for good.

I agree. The high cost of changing out my end-game gear is a big reason that I stopped buying packs or even checking out what new looks were available a few months ago. And the single-use dye system is a bad joke.

 

Agreed, it's an expensive and time consuming nuisance for my main characters. I do love changing out my looks, but I do this on my less important alts.

 

I think purple dyes such as black/black should atleast be able to be used 5 times. You should be able to yank them out and put them in something else. Once you're on your 5th piece they break and you have to buy a new one. Not an ideal solution, but it would still propagate the need for buying dye, and wouldn't kill the current system completely, because it's probably too hard for them to change it.

 

I know I'd probably change my appearance a lot more than I do, if it didn't cost me like 2 million bucks everytime I go to do it, or whatever the figure is. (cause you have to buy the set, augment the set, but the slots for the augments, rip everything out or make/buy new parts etc) This is why a cosmetic appearance window would be brilliant.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Lunafox

I agree with the OP. An appearance tab would just earn them more money. How this is difficult for them to realize is beyond me.

/shrug. I like current system. I like it that I can create a look and keep said look for a character all through their leveling process. I like the fact that I can mix and match mods to get the exact stats I want instead of having to wear a single monolithic piece of armor. I like it that I'm not constrained by gear armor type to get the stats I like.

 

that said... ability to reuse dyes and appearance tab would be a nice ADDITION to a current system. I wouldn't want what we have replaced, personally, but having more options is generally lovely.

moved from the original post

 

And then you have people like me, who make characters specifically to wear a certain outfit. I also have characters who change their complete outfit (complete with dye, handcrafted mods, armoring, enhancements, and augments) every planet. I have also changed my endgame looks a few times, because, what else am I going to do with all that money?

 

I do, in fact, have multiple fully augmented outfits. On multiple characters. My Shadow has his DPS gear on Nadia and he wears the Tank set, for example. My greatest offender is my Sniper, who changes clothes at the drop of a hat and tends to wear a lot of black. He had a separate outfit for getting married in so that my screenshots would look good.

 

My guild and I all make a decent living selling augments, kits, dyes, mods, armoring, and enhancements, and we happily share our crating skills for the benefit of everyone in the guild. We change clothes all the time, as do lots of other people on my server. (Disclaimer: I am on an RP server.) I use Legacy gear for my PvP equipment or for sending mods between characters, but each of my characters have their own looks. Again, I play on an RP server, and looks are more important here. We also seem to have more money in general than other servers, as far as I can tell.

 

Could changing your look be made less expensive? Sure.

 

Could the dyes be easier to deal with? Sure.

 

Is it really that bad? No, it's not.

 

Even if we did have an appearance tab, players would still have to put in new mods, armoring, enhancements, kits, and augments. Do you really think if we had appearance tabs that the prices for crafted items would stay the same, or would they go up to match the old profits that crafters are used to? I don't think that appearance tabs would save you quite as much as you expect, and certainly not as much as actually learning to craft your own modifications would.

 

What I dislike most about adaptive clothes is that I am running out of space.

/shrug. I like current system. I like it that I can create a look and keep said look for a character all through their leveling process. I like the fact that I can mix and match mods to get the exact stats I want instead of having to wear a single monolithic piece of armor. I like it that I'm not constrained by gear armor type to get the stats I like.

 

that said... ability to reuse dyes and appearance tab would be a nice ADDITION to a current system. I wouldn't want what we have replaced, personally, but having more options is generally lovely.

 

These are my thoughts too. I really wish I could strip out my dyes and know that I could use them in other gear.

The only issue from your OP that I agree with is the Dye System. When it first came out, I flipped my table in anger at terrible it was implemented and thought about quitting. I cooled off and adapted to it as best as I could but it's been a long wait for my Green and Red Dye (not the Red and Green dye they released to troll me.)

 

Everything else is fine to me.

 

I feel your qualms about Adaptive gear was a disguise for the costs of removing mods instead of the actual adaptive gear items themselves. Adaptive gear breathed in a fresh air of creativity for me and I hope they get back to some fresh outfit designs.

 

I really don't see how they're losing revenue because of this though. Adaptive gear mostly comes from the CM which comes from real money.

The only issue from your OP that I agree with is the Dye System. When it first came out, I flipped my table in anger at terrible it was implemented and thought about quitting. I cooled off and adapted to it as best as I could but it's been a long wait for my Green and Red Dye (not the Red and Green dye they released to troll me.)

 

Everything else is fine to me.

 

I feel your qualms about Adaptive gear was a disguise for the costs of removing mods instead of the actual adaptive gear items themselves. Adaptive gear breathed in a fresh air of creativity for me and I hope they get back to some fresh outfit designs.

 

I really don't see how they're losing revenue because of this though. Adaptive gear mostly comes from the CM which comes from real money.

 

Even if there was zero cost in changing removing mods, less people will be apt to change their gear on the fly simply because they have to add mods to all their outfits, keep all the outfits in their inventory then remove 35 mods and plug them back in just to change clothes. The current cost is high but not the reason I do not use the system.

 

Legacy Bound Gear is the major factor I only swap my mods out once. I usually keep one empty outfit in my inventory to wear around fleet but no more.

 

An outfit tab allows players to store 7 outfits on their character sheet instead of in their inventory. Then players can press one button and switch outfits on the fly.

 

If that system was adopted and it cost me 10,000 credits per change to change my outfit end game, I would use it a lot more than the 350-600k it costs me to change my outfit once.

 

I also passed on a lot of Cartel Market outfits because I found them too specific to any environment. Why pay real money for an outfit, then spend over a million in game removing mods and adding MK9s to change your outfit once for one character?

 

If the system is not easy and fun to use, it won't be used as often as it should.

Edited February 18, 2014 by illgot

Even if there was zero cost in changing removing mods, less people will be apt to change their gear on the fly simply because they have to add mods to all their outfits, keep all the outfits in their inventory then remove 35 mods and plug them back in just to change clothes. The current cost is high but not the reason I do not use the system.

 

Legacy Bound Gear is the major factor I only swap my mods out once. I usually keep one empty outfit in my inventory to wear around fleet but no more.

 

An outfit tab allows players to store 7 outfits on their character sheet instead of in their inventory. Then players can press one button and switch outfits on the fly.

 

If that system was adopted and it cost me 10,000 credits per change to change my outfit end game, I would use it a lot more than the 350-600k it costs me to change my outfit once.

 

I also passed on a lot of Cartel Market outfits because I found them too specific to any environment. Why pay real money for an outfit, then spend over a million in game removing mods and adding MK9s to change your outfit once for one character?

 

You say it like spending a million credits is a big deal in game. If credits were difficult to obtain ingame, I might agree you but with all the daily areas available, you shouldn't have to be worrying about spending credits. And even if credits were harder to accumulate, I don't see how 76k (Rough estimate) to switch mods to another item plus augmenting is even a big deal.

Well, I know I'd buy more armor sets and unlock them in collections if we had at least one or two appearance tabs. As it stands, once I have a piece augmented I never change it. There seems to be a big divide between people who are rolling in so much cash they can't find ways to spend it, and the rest of us who have to make decisions on where our credits go. I would love to use situational RP armor like the polar explorer armor, but I'm not going to spend my credits swapping mods or modding/augmenting armor that I will only wear occasionally. So I won't buy it from the GTN and then I won't unlock it in my collections. That is a direct loss in revenue for Bioware.

You say it like spending a million credits is a big deal in game. If credits were difficult to obtain ingame, I might agree you but with all the daily areas available, you shouldn't have to be worrying about spending credits. And even if credits were harder to accumulate, I don't see how 76k (Rough estimate) to switch mods to another item plus augmenting is even a big deal.

 

I assume your 76k is made up of 40k to pull the mods and 36k for a new MK-9 slot? But this does not include the cost of buying or making a new MK-9 kit. These are approx 64k on my server currently and even if you make one yourself (or provide the mats to a crafter) then the value of the mats is about the same.

 

So I make that nearer 140k per armour piece you want to change. If you're wanting a full set of 7 armour pieces, then there's a million credits gone, pretty much.

 

And all this is before you add in the cost of your new adaptable gear itself (from CM, GTN, rep vendor etc) and your replacement single use dye (assuming you only dye the chest).

 

It all adds up to around 1 - 1.5+ million just to try out a new outfit. This is excessive and surely must be putting people off buying or trying out new outfits and dyes. Yes credits aren't hugely hard to come by, but it's still a lot to splash out for a change of appearance. People are more likely to find a look they like and stick with it. Not good for player enjoyment, not good for Bioware's revenue.

 

Making player fashion both a credit sink and a revenue stream do not have a good synergy. Indeed they fight against each other. The CM wasn't around when the mods system was designed of course. But since the CM is now a large part of the game (for better or for worse) I think it's high time for a rethink.

 

Seems to me an Appearance Tab is the best way forward. Then your stats boosts earned from raids / comms stay on your character, leaving you free to experiment with your appearance and dyes etc. Most other MMOs are using this type of system for a reason - it works.

I assume your 76k is made up of 40k to pull the mods and 36k for a new MK-9 slot? But this does not include the cost of buying or making a new MK-9 kit. These are approx 64k on my server currently and even if you make one yourself (or provide the mats to a crafter) then the value of the mats is about the same.

 

So I make that nearer 140k per armour piece you want to change. If you're wanting a full set of 7 armour pieces, then there's a million credits gone, pretty much.

 

And all this is before you add in the cost of your new adaptable gear itself (from CM, GTN, rep vendor etc) and your replacement single use dye (assuming you only dye the chest).

 

It all adds up to around 1 - 1.5+ million just to try out a new outfit. This is excessive and surely must be putting people off buying or trying out new outfits and dyes. Yes credits aren't hugely hard to come by, but it's still a lot to splash out for a change of appearance. People are more likely to find a look they like and stick with it. Not good for player enjoyment, not good for Bioware's revenue.

 

Making player fashion both a credit sink and a revenue stream do not have a good synergy. Indeed they fight against each other. The CM wasn't around when the mods system was designed of course. But since the CM is now a large part of the game (for better or for worse) I think it's high time for a rethink.

 

Seems to me an Appearance Tab is the best way forward. Then your stats boosts earned from raids / comms stay on your character, leaving you free to experiment with your appearance and dyes etc. Most other MMOs are using this type of system for a reason - it works.

 

To be honest all I can say to this is to learn to be self sufficient and those costs won't be a big deal. But an appearance tab could be useful. Otherwise I feel the system is fine the way it is aside from the dye system.

I assume your 76k is made up of 40k to pull the mods and 36k for a new MK-9 slot? But this does not include the cost of buying or making a new MK-9 kit. These are approx 64k on my server currently and even if you make one yourself (or provide the mats to a crafter) then the value of the mats is about the same.

 

So I make that nearer 140k per armour piece you want to change. If you're wanting a full set of 7 armour pieces, then there's a million credits gone, pretty much.

 

And all this is before you add in the cost of your new adaptable gear itself (from CM, GTN, rep vendor etc) and your replacement single use dye (assuming you only dye the chest).

 

It all adds up to around 1 - 1.5+ million just to try out a new outfit. This is excessive and surely must be putting people off buying or trying out new outfits and dyes. Yes credits aren't hugely hard to come by, but it's still a lot to splash out for a change of appearance. People are more likely to find a look they like and stick with it. Not good for player enjoyment, not good for Bioware's revenue.

 

Making player fashion both a credit sink and a revenue stream do not have a good synergy. Indeed they fight against each other. The CM wasn't around when the mods system was designed of course. But since the CM is now a large part of the game (for better or for worse) I think it's high time for a rethink.

 

Seems to me an Appearance Tab is the best way forward. Then your stats boosts earned from raids / comms stay on your character, leaving you free to experiment with your appearance and dyes etc. Most other MMOs are using this type of system for a reason - it works.

 

 

If they added appearance tabs they can generate more revenue in their cash shop and have an added, if not more effective money sink than the current system.

 

Retain the current system which allows people to remove mods from gear. People have gotten to the point where they specialize in a certain trait like Shield or Absorb to tank. Removing mods to customize your characters stats still remains and option and credit sink.

 

Next, each appearance tab can cost a greater amount of credits to unlock similar to the way bank inventory does. That is an added money sink and people would pay to unlock it even if just one tab.

 

Bioware can then charge people, based on their level, 100-5,000 credits to put a new item in their appearance tabs. Then charge, based on their level, another 100-5,000 to make one of their many appearance tabs the active visual tab. They should not charge people to remove items from the tabs, only place items in.

 

In LOTRO I would change my outfit constantly. Even if it had the above costs as a money sink, I would still change my outfit all the time because it was easy to use and one click let me change my appearance.

 

The Appearance Tab system can be an effective money sink. What bothers me about the current system is not so much that there is a money sink involved in changing my characters appearance, it is the high cost to do this once and bloat of having to swap all my mods out AND keep the augmented outfit in my inventory at all times is just not worth it.

 

The addition of an Appearance Tab system would not change the current system at all, just an added credit sink and ability to have multiple outfits available without having to reaugment and remod your gear every time you changed outfits

Edited February 18, 2014 by illgot

/shrug. I like current system. I like it that I can create a look and keep said look for a character all through their leveling process. I like the fact that I can mix and match mods to get the exact stats I want instead of having to wear a single monolithic piece of armor. I like it that I'm not constrained by gear armor type to get the stats I like.

 

that said... ability to reuse dyes and appearance tab would be a nice ADDITION to a current system. I wouldn't want what we have replaced, personally, but having more options is generally lovely.

 

An appearance tab does exactly this. You can use your normal gear as equipped, but have the added benefit of selecting other cosmetic only gear that is in your appearance slots.

 

They is no negative points I can think of from EAware implementing an appearance tab. They would make more money from selling armours on the CM. They would make money from selling the appearance tabs on the CM. The would make more money from selling additional tabs on the CM, they would make more money from selling additional appearance slots on the CM.... you see where this is heading?

 

Only bad thing I can think of, and this is purely because it's an EAware game, they will take out any decent ingame drops that look half decent so as to make sure everyone could only buy decent armour from their cash-cow shop.

I'll mostly agree with your assessment. I wouldn't say it's terrible, but it is definitely about 15 years out-of-date.

 

However, appearance customization is now their cash cow. They have monetized their weaknesses, charged people extra to fix them, and have most people actually happy about it. Pretty ingenious, if only they could use their powers for good.

 

I agree. The system as is will not be change for the reason CosmicKat mentioned. I just don't augment my gear any more and changing mods isn't too much expensive. The dyes are expensive, but I try not to change outfits until I given my current outfit a good use for at least two months. I change all my alts or/and companion outfits when I do change outfits.

Excellent post. However, I doubt BW will ever read this let alone respond. There are many great ideas generated by the playerbase that are never acknowledged as existing by the devs. Look at the suggestion box as an example. It's truly sad that BW refuses to utilize some of their greatest talent: actual players.

I really don't see how they're losing revenue because of this though. Adaptive gear mostly comes from the CM which comes from real money.

 

Well, to be honest they lose revenue from everything that someone doesn't like.

But no, they are not losing a massive amount of revenue on it. It's not like they'd double their income if they had done it differently.

But technically the OP is right... they are losing revenue.

Just like they are losing revenue for not making the game a fantasy game, for not making it include pazaak, for not making it an FPS shooter and so on.

Since there are some people that won't play the game because it doesn't have those exact features they want.

 

But no game has everything, so all games "lose revenue" from whatever people want that isn't in the game.

Excellent post. However, I doubt BW will ever read this let alone respond. There are many great ideas generated by the playerbase that are never acknowledged as existing by the devs. Look at the suggestion box as an example. It's truly sad that BW refuses to utilize some of their greatest talent: actual players.

 

They do not flat out refuse it, but let's face it - lots of idea are people who want to redesign the game completely or something like that. Or asking for things that to a layman seems simple, but are a programmer's nightmare.

 

As to the OP:

I will agree that the dyes could use separate primary and secondary slot to allow mix and match. However, I think dyes should not be reusable. Artificers make already poor profit on them, now if all you needed was to buy one, that profit would be even less.

As for the appearance tab, I sort of agree. Sure, it might be nice to have something like Terraria's Social tab that overrides the model of whatever you are currently wearing. However, I would go for it only if you actually need to have that armor, to keep the economy balance. Maybe add some price tag to swapping thing in and out from that, to replace the mod removal credit sink...

Well, to be honest they lose revenue from everything that someone doesn't like.

But no, they are not losing a massive amount of revenue on it. It's not like they'd double their income if they had done it differently.

But technically the OP is right... they are losing revenue.

Just like they are losing revenue for not making the game a fantasy game, for not making it include pazaak, for not making it an FPS shooter and so on.

Since there are some people that won't play the game because it doesn't have those exact features they want.

 

But no game has everything, so all games "lose revenue" from whatever people want that isn't in the game.

 

Good viewpoint.

I wholeheartedly agree. The "playing dress-up" aspect is one of my favorite parts of an MMO, and SWTOR's is massively inconvenient. The fact that dyes are one-time use has barred me from using them for some looks i wanted to create. I wanted to create an Echani-looking character, with pure white gear, white eyes, and white hair. But the white/white dyes are hilariously expensive, and there is no way I'm going to spend millions on something I can use for one outfit on one character. I spent 3mil yesterday on a white-black and a pure white color crystal, and the only reason I did that is because I can unlock them in my Collections to use as often as I want.

 

As for the adaptive gear, yeah, it was amazing when I was simply leveling characters through the story and ignoring endgame. But now that I'm actually working on getting endgame gear, they've become less and less appealing. The Bind on Legacy gear is just too appealing to bother wasting money on constantly ripping out mods to put them in the look that I want, so my characters are stuck wearing identical clothes for their entire careers at 53+.

 

The appearance tab system that LOTRO uses is by far my favorite of any MMO, with WoW's transmogrification system coming in behind that. The appearance tab is amazingly well-done. It's a no-fuss, streamlined way to customize your character's look however you'd like, without worrying about what sort of stats you're going to be missing if you decide to go for form over function. Stats really should never be tied to the appearance of an item; not anymore, now that there are very successful alternatives.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AbelNightroad

The only thing I used the legacy armor for is to get the mods for my other characters. I never wear the legacy armor. To me it looks horrible. I gear each and every one of my characters.

The only thing I used the legacy armor for is to get the mods for my other characters. I never wear the legacy armor. To me it looks horrible. I gear each and every one of my characters.

 

Sadly, most of them look horrible to me, too. But I still have to use them because constantly pulling out the mods is too expensive for me to afford with how often I switch the characters I'm playing (I'd end up spending at least a couple million every day or two).