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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Fixed that for, um, me actually :D:p

 

To be honest, Kaliyo and Temple bonding over their love/hate relationship with the Agent would just be fun :p Kaliyo could be a terrible influence on Temple, given the chance.

 

Edit: The amazing Cipher seduction powers should come up more often. I only got to use them once, on a woman *huffy* I suppose it was more diplomatic than beating her.

Edited by Tatile
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A strange thing happened to me when I started using Temple - my previously ruthless, anything for the job and the dark-side lulz Agent suddenly started taking the light-side options, and feeling bad for even thinking about being a meanie.

 

I call it 'The Samara Effect' hehe.

(Space-Paladin from Mass Effect 2 for those that don't know).

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People, do me a favour.

 

I've posted a thread in the Suggestion forum, called "Suggestion for future romance content in SWTOR -> Separate it from class content" (link in sig).

 

I know this is not something everyone here diggs, but feel free to add your own suggestions to this thread, so that we can maybe send the link to that thread to Hall Hood for consideration.

 

I had to make the topic of the thread as poignant and confining as possible, so that trolls and people who post off-topic can easily be picked out, for instance those in favor of removing all romance from the game.

 

Gawd, after hours of working on that thing, I can hardly string a few more coherent sentences together. :csw_yoda: Sleep, I must. Have to get up at six a.m., oy vey.

 

Feel free to add stuff, or pick the post apart. As long as it's you guys, I trust you. ;):p

Edited by Lent_San
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Captain Hot Pants.

Lieutenant Hot Pants.

Cipher Hot Pants.

Darth Hot Pants.

 

Yes, yes I think so :3

 

On a note about companion interaction, seeing Pierce pop in on LS Jaesa conversations was interesting - that should happen more often.

 

"Gosh, I sure hope no one's talking anything heretical in the medical bay!" *whistles*

 

That whole scene was interesting....if only because, even if he knew EXACTLY what they were talking about (he's smarter than he looks), I honestly don't think he'd blab about it.

 

Anywho, sorry for getting off topic there. I just liked that scene and want more.

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Gawd, after hours of working on that thing, I can hardly string a few more coherent sentences together. :csw_yoda: Sleep, I must. Have to get up at six a.m., oy vey.

 

Feel free to add stuff, or pick the post apart. As long as it's you guys, I trust you. ;):p

 

I peeked at the thread and it looks good.

 

I feel a bit out of place posting there as I have no idea how romances are currently (beyond having none I like) :p

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'allo, 'allo, what's all this then?

 

Hall Hood @hallhood

[Revision] is possible--and on the to-do list.

 

 

So, if they're considering going back and adding species specific jokes to the Smuggler story, then the possibility of retroactive companion romances might have a little more weight.

 

Thoughts?

 

Ok, reading that I just had to ask about Corso possibly becoming available for SGR. :p Don't expect an answer, since they are probably not allowed to tell, but that was a chance I couldn't let pass. ;)

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Ok, reading that I just had to ask about Corso possibly becoming available for SGR. :p Don't expect an answer, since they are probably not allowed to tell, but that was a chance I couldn't let pass. ;)

 

Mr. Hood's said a couple of time he's not allowed to say. Sometimes I think we make him feel upset by constantly asking.

 

But you know what he should do? Print out and pile up all the requests, then throw them at the people preventing him from talking.

 

IT'S SNOWING.

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Mr. Hood's said a couple of time he's not allowed to say. Sometimes I think we make him feel upset by constantly asking.

But you know what he should do? Print out and pile up all the requests, then throw them at the people preventing him from talking.

IT'S SNOWING.

Slap them with a fish, he should, and talk about it anyways. No, seriously, gag orders make sense here and there, they're just seriously annoying if you're dying to know more.

That said, I really REALLY enjoy the Smuggler storyline so far. Way better than the slightly sappy Consular one. My Captain and Corso do have a great chemistry and the flirt options with female NPCs he's merely shrugged off as 'meh'... :rolleyes:

Edited by Lent_San
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"Cough" Got two replies from H.Hood to my tweets this morning.

 

Basically he seems really, genuinely nice (!), thought our suggestions in the Suggestion Box were "good stuff" (in his own words) and thanked us for providing them. I had tweeted him the link to that thread.

 

Post away in the other thread, if there's anything else you can think of that would improve the companion and/or romance dynamics and you feel like letting it out. I'd like this thread to stay alive for a little while, but then again I think our suggestions are briliant already, so it's hard to top that. :p

 

Now, finally, time for some more Smuggler action. <3

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Boiware Austin is NOT Bioware. It is a separate entity under EA that has not had anything to do with the other Bioware games, only SWTOR. The only reason they did straight relationships separate from SGR's was because the management of BioWare Austin does not like them. It makes no sense for them to have been done at a seperate time otherwise. Ask Bethesda or real BioWare (Edmonton) how they handled them in Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc. They are giving us just enough with Makeb to show they are doing "Something" to comply with EA's edictt that SGR's be added to the game and that's it. If you seriously think they will improve our options anytime soon after that, go take a look at the Female Flirts thread(s) and it will be clear that the management of BW-A is determined to keep SWTOR a straight male focused game.
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Boiware Austin is NOT Bioware. It is a separate entity under EA that has not had anything to do with the other Bioware games, only SWTOR. The only reason they did straight relationships separate from SGR's was because the management of BioWare Austin does not like them. It makes no sense for them to have been done at a seperate time otherwise. Ask Bethesda or real BioWare (Edmonton) how they handled them in Skyrim, Mass Effect, etc. They are giving us just enough with Makeb to show they are doing "Something" to comply with EA's edictt that SGR's be added to the game and that's it. If you seriously think they will improve our options anytime soon after that, go take a look at the Female Flirts thread(s) and it will be clear that the management of BW-A is determined to keep SWTOR a straight male focused game.

 

I always have a chuckle when Skyrim is mentioned with regards to SGR. Sure, they handled it in a completely no nonsense kind of way, but that was because there was pretty much nothing in it - less work, maybe, because they didn't have to worry about gender flags.

 

In Skyrim, you wear a particular amulet and that allows you to go...

 

<PC walks up to, NPC and initiates a conversation>

NPC: Hello stranger, I see you're wearing the amulet of Mara! You're available, right?

PC: I am yes, do you want to marry me?

NPC: Yes, I will marry you.

PC: Goodie, meet me here, we'll get married.

<travel to the chapel, a short marriage scene, NPC dashes off home>

 

The reason is that, supposedly, the Nords of Skyrim are practical about these things. Members of other races will marry you too, I suppose picking up the tradition from the Nords. You can do this even with NPCs you are meeting for the very first time when you initiate conversation with them.

 

This is not the kind of "romance" I want to see in SWTOR.

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I always have a chuckle when Skyrim is mentioned with regards to SGR. Sure, they handled it in a completely no nonsense kind of way, but that was because there was pretty much nothing in it - less work, maybe, because they didn't have to worry about gender flags.

 

In Skyrim, you wear a particular amulet and that allows you to go...

 

<PC walks up to, NPC and initiates a conversation>

NPC: Hello stranger, I see you're wearing the amulet of Mara! You're available, right?

PC: I am yes, do you want to marry me?

NPC: Yes, I will marry you.

PC: Goodie, meet me here, we'll get married.

<travel to the chapel, a short marriage scene, NPC dashes off home>

 

The reason is that, supposedly, the Nords of Skyrim are practical about these things. Members of other races will marry you too, I suppose picking up the tradition from the Nords. You can do this even with NPCs you are meeting for the very first time when you initiate conversation with them.

 

This is not the kind of "romance" I want to see in SWTOR.

 

The point was that they did not separate straight and SGR into two different experiences. They did them equal and identicle for both groups and no gender or orientation experienced anything the rest did not.

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The point was that they did not separate straight and SGR into two different experiences. They did them equal and identicle for both groups and no gender or orientation experienced anything the rest did not.

 

Yes, you are right. The experiences were indeed equal. Equally bad, that is. :) Not saying that I didn't enjoy Skyrim, because I did and I still start it up to play from time to time - but honestly... I can't even call what was in the game "romance" as it was devoid of romance. Heck, The Sims 3 has more romance in it than Skyrim.

 

It is unfair to compare Skyrim to SWTOR, they are completely different experiences. Not defending Bioware here, but there's a lot more work involved in the romances in SWTOR than there was in Skyrim.

 

(And can I just say, there's also a lot less variety in the voice work in Skryim. I can't tell you how many times I went "Oh, that's Claudia Christian! (Aela) And that's Claudia Christian! (Legate Rikke) And there's Claudia Christian again! (Adrianne Avenicci, and anyone else using the female commander style voice)" while playing Skyrim... Not that I have problems with hearing Claudia Christian's voice everywhere... oh that's what's wrong with SWTOR! No Claudia Christian!)

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The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing. Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR :) . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.

 

Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.

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The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing. Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR :) . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.

 

Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.

Just to point out DA2 uses gender checks, as does ME3.

For a good romance you need gender checks so that both dialogue and interactions between the toons remainrealistic.

As an example how removing gender checks can lead to physical humour I only need to point to the modded ME2 romances, due to the different height of MShep and FShep all scenes that require interaction look weird ranging from simply bad (Miranda) to hilarious (Thane).

 

The gender checks in SW:TOR are there so that you can actually have a romance with dialogue and interactions, without them all you get is the Fable or Skyrim style of hookup. So those gender checks do not exist to prevent you from romancing whoever you want, but for the romance to actually exist. And once SGRAs with companions are coming we will benefit from those gender checks because then Corso will (similar to all the bisexual male LIs before him) treat my male smuggler like a man during the romance and not like a girl as Anomen does, if you simply remove the gender checks in BG2.

Edited by Wittand
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The point of comparing SWTOR (or any other game) to Skyrim in terms of romance, is to point out that Skyrim did it right, they let you romance anyone you want to, and that the reason they did it is because its easier to do that than to put artificial gender-limitations on any given romance. Obviously Skyrim's romances were not 'deep' by any remote stretch of the imagination, but if you've played previous games in the series you know that there werent ANY at all, so it was a huge improvement over nothing.

 

Gender is irrelevant to marriage in Skyrim. They did it the way they did because it was a way of checking a box with minimal effort. Forgive me for being cynical, but it's true. If I'm not mistaken, there's never any reference to your character's gender in any dialogue pertaining to the marriage. (I just checked, and Alea refers to my Dark Elf as "dear" and "love" and "you", but treats her no differently (than when they weren't married) in any dialogue that doesn't pertain to the perks of being married or greetings.)

 

There's a huge difference between that and the romances in SWTOR.

 

Nothing, that sounds familiar...oh, because that's what we got in SWTOR :) . Seriously though, the point is you have to go out of your way to keep people from romancing anyone they want to, you have to put in gender checks, and Skyrim didn't, that's what everybody likes about it, not that it had the world's best written romances, just that we get to actually enjoy what's there, unlike in SWTOR where the romances may be awesome for all I know, but I wouldn't know, because they don't let me enjoy them, so that's a lot worse than Skyrim regardless of how poorly written you think the romances were. Skyrim, DA2, DD, the Sims, etc. thats the future of gaming-romances, because that way everybody wins. You get to romance whoever you want to, and its easier on the folks that make the game to do it that way, everybody is happy.

 

No. That's wrong. Sure, there is some work in putting in the gender checks in the first place - but there are also checks for race (Watcher Two, for example, has some different dialogue if you're not human), and for those NPCs that aren't class specific, for class as well. Outside of romance, there are instances where an NPC will say something gender specific like "You're more girly than I remember the Red Blade as being" (while he says something different for male IAs, wouldn't know, never played a male IA that far). That's extra effort, sure, but it adds some depth to the dialogue. (Yes, my examples are all going to be from a non-human IA perspective, sorry.)

 

Also with SWTOR, there are voiced lines on behalf of the PC (in Skyrim, the Dragonborn is mostly mute), lines for SGR have not been recorded yet for SWTOR (at least that's the implication). So if you take the gender checks out, not only will your love interest refer to you by the wrong gender, the PC will not voice his or her lines.

 

Obviously there are still some holdouts, its annoying to have a great game like SWTOR ruined by somebody who doesn't like the idea of my female Knight (who I've been playing the most recently) romancing Kira so much that he literally spent time and money putting in gender checks to prevent it, time and money he could've spent actually making the game better in some way. Thats very annoying, thats why we want them to get rid of those gender checks, so we can enjoy the romances the same as anybody else. And thats why we're happy with games like Skyrim, because even poorly written romances, that you're actually allowed to enjoy, are better than the best written romance of all time that you aren't allowed to play at all.

 

I think I'd rather them spend some more time personalizing (references to gender, race/species, class, and a voiced PC) the romances to the character, than having generic lines uttered to both genders with a mute PC.

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Just to point out DA2 uses gender checks, as does ME3.

For a good romance you need gender checks so that both dialogue and interactions between the toons remainrealistic.

As an example how removing gender checks can lead to physical humour I only need to point to the modded ME2 romances, due to the different height of MShep and FShep all scenes that require interaction look weird ranging from simply bad (Miranda) to hilarious (Thane).

 

Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

 

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.

Edited by SelinaK
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With regard to marriage in Skyrim, I thought it broke immersion. The whole marriage thing seemed to stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the game. It seemed cheesy, cliche, and rather pointless. It was, however, inclusive, and also introduced a really OP mechanic: your spouse being a store-owner. Which I was perfectly okay with :D
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Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

 

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.

 

Thank you! It's sad how those kinds of sexist stereotypes are still part of the game. I also think it's ridiculous how my female characters runs. The male characters run like people do, the female ones run like they've got physical anomalies. If that's meant to be sexy: FAIL.

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Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

 

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.

 

You know that the average male is 7-9% taller than the average female right ?

This of course depends slightly on race, and to a bigger extent on environment (the worse living conditions are the smaller the actual difference).

 

And not all man are taller than all woman, neither in real life nor in the game. Three of the male body-types are smaller than the biggest female in game.

 

Not to mention that the problem is not who is taller/fatter/ whatever but that there are differences in body type that need to be addressed in any scene that involves touching.

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It is unfair to compare Skyrim to SWTOR, they are completely different experiences. Not defending Bioware here, but there's a lot more work involved in the romances in SWTOR than there was in Skyrim.

 

Right, and they've put all of that super duper hard work into OGRA only and haven't done squat for SGRAs, which is the original point.

 

While it's unfair to compare SWTOR and Skyrim based on quality of romance plot, it is fair to compare how they allotted that specific budget as far as OGRA vs SGRA goes.

Edited by stuffystuffs
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