I can understand damage meters, it allows you to distinguish who's slacking, but personally i've never had a problem with DPS going all out on a fight from the second it starts.

I tank as a guardian, most DPS in our guild are full Rakata and they never pull agro off me. I just prioritise my high damage skills at the start and it's a breeze.

I could understand if future encounters had an agro drop which disabled the tanks, but for the current content there's no purpose in it.

Your DPS are doing it wrong, or you are the greatest tank in this game. If thats the case GRATZ:) Make some videos teaching people how to play.

Threat meters though really are not about the tank losing aggro to DPS, but more for encounters where a boss my do a strike or an ability on the person with number two aggro. This allows use of an off tank to soak up that damage. It can be done without one, but a tank that is not being beat on has a harder time generating resources to generate threat so it becomes more sensitive.

Another good use is when there has been a threat drop in the middle of a fight, and the DPS can then adjust mid fight to when the tank has appropriate aggro. It is very easy to give the tank a few seconds lead at the start of the fight, this is more difficult to judge when things are actually going down.

Also if DPS or heals got their own meters tanks like having mad TPS to talk about as in, "Dude my teeps was so high on that fight, even that noob on the wrong target couldn't pull threat!"

Honestly though bottom line is you dont need them, but they are really nice to have, more so if threat is going to be an actual mechanic of fights.

Your DPS are doing it wrong, or you are the greatest tank in this game. If thats the case GRATZ:) Make some videos teaching people how to play.

OR his DPS is doing it right... detaunts after big dps drops....and you dont pull aggro unless the mechanic calls for it.

Granted if i WANTED to pull aggro it's pretty easy if im not gaurded: as a Tracerspammer i can spike like its cool and if his taunts are down... but then again that's not being a good dps.

I can understand damage meters, it allows you to distinguish who's slacking, but personally i've never had a problem with DPS going all out on a fight from the second it starts.

 

I tank as a guardian, most DPS in our guild are full Rakata and they never pull agro off me. I just prioritise my high damage skills at the start and it's a breeze.

 

I could understand if future encounters had an agro drop which disabled the tanks, but for the current content there's no purpose in it.

So you've never had Bonethrasher attack someone else? Or seen Soa attack a dps? Without a threat meter, how do you tell the difference between a threat drop, an aggro pull and the boss targetting someone randomly?

So you've never had Bonethrasher attack someone else? Or seen Soa attack a dps? Without a threat meter, how do you tell the difference between a threat drop, an aggro pull and the boss targetting someone randomly?

I DPS specc for Bone thrasher because i'm a good guardian and i do my dailies so i can afford a 2x respecc for the sake off clearing KP. And either way, if you lose agro you lose agro, it's what taunt's for and any guardian worth his salt should be able to quickly regain threat through priority skill usage.

Simple way to avoid Soa attacking a DPS: tank him facing away from the raid, as soon as he does his random agro drop, taunt, simples.

In regards to any random agro drops, you should always have your single-target taunt off CD in boss fights.

So you've never had Bonethrasher attack someone else? Or seen Soa attack a dps? Without a threat meter, how do you tell the difference between a threat drop, an aggro pull and the boss targetting someone randomly?

Simple Answer? Open your Eyes.

Yeah, single target threat's not an issue for me, and coming from an MMO other than WoW, the very idea of a threat meter is strange.

This game is full of attacks on people not on the top of the hate list, and you learn which ones those are by doing the fight a few times and learning what the mob's different attacks imply. To do otherwise just seems to be making the game easier unnecessarily.

DPS meters, on the other hand, are needed just so we can tell what spec does more damage, or what stat to stack. It doesn't need to be an in-game thing, so not every fight comes down to DPS e-peen contest, but being able to run a parser out of game to test things would be very beneficial.

i change my mind, there is no need for threat meter, or combatlog, it will make game easier

to absolute 0 (zero)

I DPS specc for Bone thrasher because i'm a good guardian and i do my dailies so i can afford a 2x respecc for the sake off clearing KP. And either way, if you lose agro you lose agro, it's what taunt's for and any guardian worth his salt should be able to quickly regain threat through priority skill usage.

 

Simple way to avoid Soa attacking a DPS: tank him facing away from the raid, as soon as he does his random agro drop, taunt, simples.

 

In regards to any random agro drops, you should always have your single-target taunt off CD in boss fights.

I didn't ask how to handle when it happens. I asked if it happens and how you know whether it happened because of a boss mechanic or because the dps pulled aggro.

Since you admit that it DOES happen and you don't provide a clear mechanism for differentiating between the three reasons why it might happen, I think my point is made.

I would like threat meter's to prove some of the different class abilities DO NOT WORK.

As a healer i often have Guard (Does not seem to work) on me from my tank's i use Cloud Mind (totally useless) i have points spent in a tree that lower's my threat when i heal (again totally useless).

So yes i would like to see why the hell am i pulling so much aggro just for casting a rejuve on a tank.

I didn't ask how to handle when it happens. I asked if it happens and how you know whether it happened because of a boss mechanic or because the dps pulled aggro.

 

Since you admit that it DOES happen and you don't provide a clear mechanism for differentiating between the three reasons why it might happen, I think my point is made.

Who cares which of the 3 it is? It doesn't matter. As was mentioned previously, taunt to get aggro back. That's the beauty of taunt. Having a meter telling you why something happens won't change the fact that it happens. A good DPS should give a tank a run for their money with threat. The only thing a threat meter could do is give a raid leader or tank an excuse to yell at DPS. However, nobody likes those types of players. Simply use your taunt to pull aggro back. Using taunt allows your DPS to run at a higher level without throttling. If aggro is lost due to boss mechanics, then the threat meter won't help you at all. If you use smart raiding practices like spacing and boss positioning, threat meters really have no value. It simply becomes a tool to make the game easier and require less skill. Why would anybody want that?

I would like threat meter's to prove some of the different class abilities DO NOT WORK.

 

As a healer i often have Guard (Does not seem to work) on me from my tank's i use Cloud Mind (totally useless) i have points spent in a tree that lower's my threat when i heal (again totally useless).

 

So yes i would like to see why the hell am i pulling so much aggro just for casting a rejuve on a tank.

If you are pulling threat as a healer, your tank has serious problems that need to be adressed. Also, guard, as well as all the other threat drops, DO correctly work as I have tested most of them with help from guildmates.

I would like threat meter's to prove some of the different class abilities DO NOT WORK...

A combat log would indeed be very helpful to show if skills are not working, are not working as intended, or are not in line with the tooltips.

A threat meter would show if there are issues with threat skills or threat transfers, it is a much lower priority to a combat log because threat can be surmized from the combat log.

All the naysayers for combat logs are looking at the negatives. Every tool can be used to help or harm. There are players who want to improve. And a damage test dummy and combat logs are good feedback for that player to experiement and improve. If anyone thinks only hardcore players want to improve, they are sorely wrong. Anything else is just bad behaviour of individuals, which does not justify collective punishment. AKA find nicer people to play with.

Combat logs at the end of a fight would be good for analysis. It also means that it cannot be used in combat as a an event trigger.

if dps takes aggro it is dps' fault most of time, and I'm agains all kind of meters, they just reduce game to numerics and decrease its fun

Look at another "fun" part of this game. Light/Dark and companion affection are numericalized and have always been in Bioware games. Talk about something that should be fuzzy that is shown to cold numbers. Welcome to MMO, where love and goodness can be grinded.

... so not every fight comes down to DPS e-peen contest,

sadly, usually, eventually thats whats it becomes though ...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There already is a threat meter in this game. Tank fights boss. Boss turns and smacks DPS. It's a pretty !@#$ obvious clue that the tank lost hate.

How do you learn the difference between random threat loss and random targeting and second threat targeting and too much dps or too little taunting? Through experience playing the game and getting better at it.

Can DPS out tank the tank? Maybe. But seriously, what is so hard about walking that fine line between making the mob turn, and not making him turn? Ideally, IMO, a good DPS should always be one ability from making the mob turn. There is your threat meter. You should also learn when to make it turn (just after, not just before, it unleashes a big attack - when the tank has a taunt ready, etc., etc.) in case you really need to check how high up the threat ladder you are.

Why should this be the case? 'cause people make mistakes, and you want to be able to take a hit or two when the healer accidentally targets himself instead of the tank. (Come on, admit it healers, you have all done it at least once!)

And the tank should always be aware of just who is doing what and how much hate they have, and whether or not they can use their taunt, or should save it. A good tank always has their taunt on CD and available for use. A great tank knows when to use it a split second before its needed, and when to use it a split second after (that would be the difference between a DPS stealing hate, and a boss mechanic to change targets to second threat for an ability).

TL;DR version: If you can learn to play the game with a threat meter, how come you can't learn to play it without? The difference between a justified elitist and a douchebag elitist is that the justified learned to play the game - the douchebag lets the game play him (that is not to say just by wanting a threat meter you are DB - there are always exceptions that prove the rule).

2cents.

EDIT: What the game could use instead is social macros - a single key press for a tank to say "TAUNT READY" without having to take time out actually type it is a great idea. And DPS unloading just after, followed by a taunting tank is great. I mean, teamwork? Communication? In a party? What a great idea! That is the sort of stuff that, IMHO, can improve people's output, maximize DPS and general skill level, and still make it so they play the game, the game doesn't play them.

Who cares which of the 3 it is? It doesn't matter. As was mentioned previously, taunt to get aggro back. That's the beauty of taunt. Having a meter telling you why something happens won't change the fact that it happens. A good DPS should give a tank a run for their money with threat. The only thing a threat meter could do is give a raid leader or tank an excuse to yell at DPS. However, nobody likes those types of players. Simply use your taunt to pull aggro back. Using taunt allows your DPS to run at a higher level without throttling. If aggro is lost due to boss mechanics, then the threat meter won't help you at all. If you use smart raiding practices like spacing and boss positioning, threat meters really have no value. It simply becomes a tool to make the game easier and require less skill. Why would anybody want that?

I care which of the three it is. Because knowing which of the three it is affects what the proper strategy is to handle it happening in the future. Sure, you can just taunt to get aggro back, but that's an inelegant and inefficient strategy.

First, there's the issue of wanted to save taunt for something more important. Maybe you want to reserve taunt for a tank switch later on. Maybe ads will show up that you want to save taunt for. It's better to know if you really NEED to use the taunt or if it can be handled in another fashion.

Second, knowing what the fight's actual mechanics are helps in creating proper strategies and methods of dealing with those mechanics. I'm the kind of player who likes to go over fights, even successful fights, and figure out ways to improve. Maybe you can shave a few seconds off the fight. Maybe you can swap a healer for an extra dps. Maybe you can do it with less deaths. Maybe you can do it with less people. Maybe you can simplify it so that newer players will have an easier time. Unless you know what's really going on, you're just doing whatever and hoping you get lucky again. Instead, I prefer to have a strategy and iterate on the strategy over multiple fights and multiple attempts until it is as close to perfect as it can get. Like refactoring working code until it's leaner, faster and better.

if dps takes aggro it is dps' fault most of time, and I'm agains all kind of meters, they just reduce game to numerics and decrease its fun

I can't fault a dps for taking aggro if the game doesn't provide them with sufficient information on where they stand wrt the tank.

Also, Bioware tried to make the current content tier "hard" with enrage timers. If this trend continues, then the need for threat meters will only increase -- you can't ask dps to maximize their output and not pull threat without giving them any in-game mechanism to know where they stand on the aggro table. Asking them to sit idle for a few seconds after they land a crit string is completely counter-productive to their role, especially if it's unnecessary.

EDIT: What the game could use instead is social macros - a single key press for a tank to say "TAUNT READY" without having to take time out actually type it is a great idea. And DPS unloading just after, followed by a taunting tank is great. I mean, teamwork? Communication? In a party? What a great idea! That is the sort of stuff that, IMHO, can improve people's output, maximize DPS and general skill level, and still make it so they play the game, the game doesn't play them.

Ugg, no.

I'm of the belief that the tank should fight for threat (unlike current WoW), but played well shouldn't have to rely on taunt to hold aggro (unlike current SWTOR). This way the tanks rotation/skill actually matters for something, instead of just having to press a single button to lol-tank the whole night.

Sorry, the idea of coordinating dps bursts around taunt's cd just makes my stomach turn.