Seriously, their defensive tools make them practically invincible now. Why do they have so much shielding now? Why do they have a damn self heal wioth their aoe shield? Do they really need a reset skill to let them double knockback? Top it off that entrench is practically always available (why is the ability to keep entrench when they leave cover still a thing...) These changes are definitely catered to solo ranked environment.....

 

They've always been a strong counter to melee, as they should be.....but this is ridiculously one sided now.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Raansu

Seriously, their defensive tools make them practically invincible now. Why do they have so much shielding now? Why do they have a damn self heal wioth their aoe shield? Do they really need a reset skill to let them double knockback? Top it off that entrench is practically always available (why is the ability to keep entrench when they leave cover still a thing...) These changes are definitely catered to solo ranked environment.....

 

They've always been a strong counter to melee, as they should be.....but this is ridiculously one sided now.

 

Raansu you main a sent/mara, possibly the most overpowered class throughout 5.x and one of the strongest counters to sniper; sniper was OP post engi buff and pre sniper dcd nerfs (and engi nerfs) but honestly the majority of snipers are now free kills.

 

Snipers are very OP vs sins (post stun dr nerf) and pts (outside of trinity comps), but operatives, maras, and juggs are strong vs sniper.

Raansu you main a sent/mara, possibly the most overpowered class throughout 5.x and one of the strongest counters to sniper; sniper was OP post engi buff and pre sniper dcd nerfs (and engi nerfs) but honestly the majority of snipers are now free kills.

 

Snipers are very OP vs sins (post stun dr nerf) and pts (outside of trinity comps), but operatives, maras, and juggs are strong vs sniper.

 

Yaaaa no. I had a spare boost and used it for sniper and after an hour this is just laughable. This class is unkillable. I literally see mara's as free kills.

Whats worse is the community has been telling the inept dev's this for oh what 2 years! Plus it wasn't like they need a whole lot pre-5.0 but in typical inept dev like fashion they go way overboard break trinity 6 ways to Sunday, which is real easy for this dev team as they have no grasp on Heals|Tank|DPS what so ever.

 

 

At this point bud i'd just get of the ship while the getting is good cause this ship is on the way down. Save yourself it's not to late.

Yaaaa no. I had a spare boost and used it for sniper and after an hour this is just laughable. This class is unkillable. I literally see mara's as free kills.

 

Lol.

 

/5char

Nothing has changed with their DCDs since you last played. Most people playing them are bad or in your case, most of the people playing against your are bad, so everything should seem like a free kill.

Jump on your Sent/Mara and you’ll see what I mean.

Raansu you main a sent/mara, possibly the most overpowered class throughout 5.x and one of the strongest counters to sniper; sniper was OP post engi buff and pre sniper dcd nerfs (and engi nerfs) but honestly the majority of snipers are now free kills.

 

Snipers are very OP vs sins (post stun dr nerf) and pts (outside of trinity comps), but operatives, maras, and juggs are strong vs sniper.

 

In what world are juggs strong against snipers?

the problem with sniper is that their counterpart is the sniper itself and partially maras.

a sniper in a diversion will die in stun lock easily due to his lack of passive damage reduction.

Edited November 6, 2018 by ultimarb

In what world are juggs strong against snipers?

 

His, apparently.

In what world are juggs strong against snipers?

 

Any trinity composition, rage jugg chunks snipers, it's dcds are very strong vs marksmen (the meta sniper spec) and it's

mobility gives it great up-time (root break/speed buff on enrage every ~30 seconds, mad dash every 30 seconds, obliterate, intercede root break).

 

Juggs will generally lose a 1vs1 against an equally skilled sniper (assuming no terrain advantage), but in a team fight they are very strong vs snipers.

Any trinity composition, rage jugg chunks snipers, it's dcds are very strong vs marksmen (the meta sniper spec) and it's

mobility gives it great up-time (root break/speed buff on enrage every ~30 seconds, mad dash every 30 seconds, obliterate, intercede root break).

 

Juggs will generally lose a 1vs1 against an equally skilled sniper (assuming no terrain advantage), but in a team fight they are very strong vs snipers.

 

Uh a PT is good against a sniper if he is in a trinity comp and the sniper is not. So what's the point exactly?

Any trinity composition, rage jugg chunks snipers, it's dcds are very strong vs marksmen (the meta sniper spec) and it's

mobility gives it great up-time (root break/speed buff on enrage every ~30 seconds, mad dash every 30 seconds, obliterate, intercede root break).

 

Juggs will generally lose a 1vs1 against an equally skilled sniper (assuming no terrain advantage), but in a team fight they are very strong vs snipers.

 

The only hard counter for a sniper, is another sniper.

Just want to reiterate and remind BW....(not that they care) how ridiculous stupid snipers are with the amount of defensive utilities they have.

Any trinity composition, rage jugg chunks snipers, it's dcds are very strong vs marksmen (the meta sniper spec) and it's

mobility gives it great up-time (root break/speed buff on enrage every ~30 seconds, mad dash every 30 seconds, obliterate, intercede root break).

 

Juggs will generally lose a 1vs1 against an equally skilled sniper (assuming no terrain advantage), but in a team fight they are very strong vs snipers.

 

The best deterrent to rage Juggs as a sniper is to run engineering spec. I can tell you as a Jugg it is extremely frustrating and hard to get on them long enough to do any damage. And as an engineering sniper I can say it’s fun running crowd control on a Jugg trying to chase you down.

IMO, the only melee that can handle a engineering sniper is a Fury Mara.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Totemdancer

Just want to reiterate and remind BW....(not that they care) how ridiculous stupid snipers are with the amount of defensive utilities they have.

 

Agreed. Broken AF.

 

Any trinity composition, .

 

Trinity comps are good vs a sniper.

Trinity comps are good vs a sniper.

 

Yep, I would hope during any 3 v 1 that the one person loses.

Edited November 21, 2018 by RACATW

Just want to reiterate and remind BW....(not that they care) how ridiculous stupid snipers are with the amount of defensive utilities they have.

 

yep, along with mercs they're overpowered AF.... i'm almost done with this game .

I agree Snipers are badly designed.

 

My main concern with them is, that it is possible to shut down DMG from all other specs in the entire game with CC. With CC being an integral part of PvP at all levels, it is like Snipers are imported from another game.

 

The few exceptions are 4-6 sec immunities spread across 3 Specs that are quite easily predicable. With Snipers there is only LOS because of the possibility of 30+ secs of CC immunity. If you then add their CC package on top of that, you got this overtuned Burst DMG / CC Specialist / Ranged Tank / Anti-CC --> LOL-Hybrid.

 

It is not each individual part of the class, that is the problem, it is the combined package just like the pre-nerfed Mercs and Sorcs of Old.

 

 

I think the way forward is lowering the cooldown of dodge - for a more active use of the low duration "bunker mode", removal of Imperial Preparation to reset all sorts of abilities - that simply just need a lower cooldown, a large buff to "none-bunker mode" cover defenses, and the ability to activate "bunker mode" when stunned (so it can't be wasted).

 

This will all in all remove these On/OFF -> "Godmode" or "games easiest kill" moments and make game balance 5x times easier in the future.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Mannok

Snipers are strong, but the most OP class right now I feel are Fury marauders. Big damage, short CD CC immunity, many and strong DCDs, and a speed buff to the whole team that, mixed with the utility, makes them go faster than the game engine can manage so that, together with desync and low fps, the team are excessively difficult to see and target (this is my biggest issue with them, well with all maras).

 

(Arsenal?) mercs are also a bit too strong with big burst damage, multiple strong DCDs (especially reflect shield that reflects everything and can be used while stunned) and electronet.

 

So to make classes viable outside Trinity PvP, some classes evolved into high tier PvP classes like Marauders and Snipers (that argueable did not have healing or stealth so they needed more DCDs).

 

So death in PvP (people in general are risk adverse) leads to developers making game balance to accomodate that.. (which is perfectly reasonable but completely idiotic due to lack of matchmaking). But.. makes 4-6 out of 12 sub specs completely break the trinity of the general MMO in the process.

 

These are in Empire perspective: Sniper, Marauder, Mercenary and Juggernauts. So Devs are trying to patch a problem they did never designed the entire game to accomodate. On top of that the Classes are not meta-designed enough to fullfil certain roles - except Healers as Tanks are basicly reduced to Guard-Bots.

I don't understand how you define this trinity-breaking/not meta-designed category? Why isn't dmg operative on the list? I mean practically all dmg specs break trinity in some way if you define good DCDs as trinity-breaking along with off-support.

 

Lastly they wanted all DAMAGE specs to be nearly equal (due to PvE and main class concerns) and you got yourself a real problem.

What do you mean? The dmg specs are not 'nearly equal'. In fact I find them to be very nicely varied. (Sure, some are similar like fury mara and rage jugg.) If you mean they all have either protection, off-heals or some form of self-sustainability, then I think that is just balanced, but still not equal. They also have other individual perks of varying strengths, like predation, ballistic shield, electronet, infiltration etc. And I think they need to be balanced with all this in mind, which mostly they are, but some tuning is required.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Neulwen

1) I don't understand how you define this trinity-breaking/not meta-designed category? Why isn't dmg operative on the list? I mean practically all dmg specs break trinity in some way if you define good DCDs as trinity-breaking along with off-support.

 

2) What do you mean? The dmg specs are not 'nearly equal'. In fact I find them to be very nicely varied. (Sure, some are similar like fury mara and rage jugg.) If you mean they all have either protection, off-heals or some form of self-sustainability, then I think that is just balanced, but still not equal. They also have other individual perks of varying strengths, like predation, ballistic shield, electronet, infiltration etc. And I think they need to be balanced with all this in mind, which mostly they are, but some tuning is required.

 

1) Trinity Breaking are classes that have a huge overlap into either High Survivability, Self Sustain (like healing), High or Bursty DMG or alot of CC/Mobility. Without any real trade-off.

 

Example: So it is Trininty breaking when a Skank can output too much DMG while being incredible tanky, Healers that can be super hard to kill for even for 2 Damage dealers, and Damage Dealers being tanky enough to rival Tank specs in TTK.

 

2) When I say equal I mean equal in terms of total output. I completely agree they are very different and actually designed to be and play very differently - which is great. Even Operatives, which are incredible in 1v1, are obliterated in group fights and lack consistent Burst DMG.

 

So because of the Even DMG designed for PvE (within 10% of each other - Refer to dev posts) we end up with these weird Trininty breaking specs in PvP. Which is amplified by a lack of Trinity in PUG PvP, that Devs have been forced to address and have consistently made defenses stronger and stronger over time (Sorcs will be discussed later).

 

Snipers and Marauders just happens to come out on top right now, as this Trinity breaking meta has shifted alot over time with varying classes coming out on top. But it is always the same problem --> Too much of everything!

 

Survivability + Burst DMG + Self Sustain or CC/Mobility in 1 package. The changes to Sorcs and Assassins over time are actually the best I have seen (so far), that have happened in terms of taking them out of the Trinity breaking meta, even tho alot of players hated the changes (because they now aren't competetive to current META specs).

 

 

The least Trininty breaking specs right now are Operatives, PTs and Sorcs as deps, Tanks in actual Tank gear and Operative healers to my best estimates - none of which are part of current META (unless as a niche).

 

And a close 2nd is Vengeance Spec Juggernauts and both none-tank Assassin specs.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Mannok

I don't understand how you define this trinity-breaking/not meta-designed category? Why isn't dmg operative on the list? I mean practically all dmg specs break trinity in some way if you define good DCDs as trinity-breaking along with off-support.

 

Roll immunity, self heals, damage reflects, strong burst and stealth etc.....ops are definitely in that spectrum of being broken along with mercs.

 

BW fell into the hole of giving too much utility to certain classes that never needed it, which completely breaks them. All in the name of solo ranked, a mode that should never have existed.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Raansu

concealment ops (and leth to a decree) are very powerful in 1v1, however this wasn't his point. his point was that an op dps in a group content adds little. 1v1, they excell but this game isnt balanced around duels and 1v1 comp. would it be cool? hell yes, would it be a good idea.... sadly, no. the game just has no mode that is solo only that cant be handled by all classes. ops bring enough to be useful, but are woefully lacking in fotm status.

1) Trinity Breaking are classes that have a huge overlap into either High Survivability, Self Sustain (like healing), High or Bursty DMG or alot of CC/Mobility. Without any real trade-off.

 

Example: So it is Trininty breaking when a Skank can output too much DMG while being incredible tanky, Healers that can be super hard to kill for even for 2 Damage dealers, and Damage Dealers being tanky enough to rival Tank specs in TTK.

 

2) When I say equal I mean equal in terms of total output. I completely agree they are very different and actually designed to be and play very differently - which is great. Even Operatives, which are incredible in 1v1, are obliterated in group fights and lack consistent Burst DMG.

 

So because of the Even DMG designed for PvE (within 10% of each other - Refer to dev posts) we end up with these weird Trininty breaking specs in PvP. Which is amplified by a lack of Trinity in PUG PvP, that Devs have been forced to address and have consistently made defenses stronger and stronger over time (Sorcs will be discussed later).

 

Snipers and Marauders just happens to come out on top right now, as this Trinity breaking meta has shifted alot over time with varying classes coming out on top. But it is always the same problem --> Too much of everything!

 

Survivability + Burst DMG + Self Sustain or CC/Mobility in 1 package. The changes to Sorcs and Assassins over time are actually the best I have seen (so far), that have happened in terms of taking them out of the Trinity breaking meta, even tho alot of players hated the changes (because they now aren't competetive to current META specs).

 

 

The least Trininty breaking specs right now are Operatives, PTs and Sorcs as deps, Tanks in actual Tank gear and Operative healers to my best estimates - none of which are part of current META (unless as a niche).

 

And a close 2nd is Vengeance Spec Juggernauts and both none-tank Assassin specs.

 

Breaks trinity is rather simple

TANK: Absorbs dmg

 

HEALS: They simply heal peeps but should have to manage resources so in cases of one on one with a DPS spec over time they simply run out of force/tech and thus sub-comb

 

DPS: Dps Burst High dmg output but a glass cannon.

 

Tanks should be able to absorb lots of dmg BUT DPS should never exceed that of a pure DPS burst other wise what is the point of playing glass cannon spec's?

Currently Vigil break trinity because they violate the rule making pure DPS classes moot. Partly because Bioware's Dev team went ahead and nerfed tanks DPS "because they were over performing" and then they turn around and buff them by allowing shield to affect crit there-by putting them Right back where they were before the so called nerf because if you increase survival and don't touch DPS its a NET gain to DPS.

 

Merc |Jugs|Sniper:

All break trinity because they have uber burst PLUS uber up time. There Death to Damage is way to high. Another words they put out way to much DPS compared to other classes before they die.The heal on Dmg is partly to blame( though jugs isn't as effective as merc's it still grants basically a 2nd life. Merc is the worst there's more akin to 3 lives.)

With Merc's and even Jugs the Visual cue that are suppose to aid a player when not to attack so you avoid "healing" your target or take reflect damage suffers from poor visibility example Jugs reflect red sparkly thing that is to short and too hard to see plus said ability can get drowned out altogether by other visual cues or other graphic effects such as sorc bubble, or Operatives heal globe and the Merc's very own Dmg reduction shield (blue) which drowns out the yellow.

Then you throw in the fact that In certain cases AOE dmg still triggers the heal even though its an AOE. Example assassin's lacerate because you have a 50% chance you might proc a surging charge which is internal damage (Frankly this makes no sense what soever on how a "Shield" can stop internal damage.) If proc'd it will heal the merc. This of course means you just stop attacking and thus we have imposing a one sided armistice where you can't attack your opponent because you'll either heal'em or damage yourself yet, Your opponent is free to lambaste you into oblivion. If your going to have abilities that have negative effects on you because your attacking your opponent then those abilities visual cues need to be PRONOUNCED, PREDOMINANT, and lastly have PRECEDENCE so said abilities are always visible.

 

Now sniper was actually fine pre 5.0 just needed a tweak instead they get INSANELY BUFFED The class has dam near 90% stun immunity which is utter crap. Insane dmg reduction/absorb the ability to roll and not be stunned, Spam giant Dot on floor which is a huge pain when more than one is in Que. Solution keep DPS high Nerf defenses or keep defenses' and reduce DPS.

 

Operative break trinity with their insane amount of evasiveness coupled with the ability to heal themselves while on the move. Hands down it breaks trinity. You can think of the evasion as a different mechanic that keeps you alive. Allowing you to absorb insane damage or mitigate/Dodge it, then when you do get damaged you roll away heal and as long as you spam attacks that grant tactical advantage you can do this all day again nothing to manage... no cost.

 

Its rather simple you want to do huge DPS your a glass cannon.

You want uber survival and to do dmg then your a hybrid pseudo tank+pseudo DPS equals not a master of either you do half that of what a pure DPS spec does.

 

You want to run around the map unhindered either your heals get neutered or your DPS is nixed.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Kazz_Devlin

I dont always agree withyou but on this... I wish this was the way it was.

 

 

if you ever get the chance to chill and do some lowbie wzs, youll find this is how it is.. how it usedto be. I miss 3.0