I was just thinking, lots of people are getting pissed because other people just want to skip bosses and get through the FP as fast as possible for various reasons. Sooo, I was thinking what if........... BW altered the loot tables on higher lvl FP bosses (exp = False emperor, Directive 7, Koan, Lost Island) so theirs a 50-60 % chance for a Molecular Stabilizer or a Matrix Cube to drop. No one would want to skip a boss if they knew their was a chance of one of those Matts dropping.

Thoughts on this???

that is one way to fix the boss skipping. at the current drop rate, i have no reason to do 70% of the bosses in FP bc the gear that i have on all of my toons is better than what will drop. the credits dropped from these bosses is not worth the time neither.

for the most part, i just do FP for the BH comms and i rarely do those anymore bc of the grind. add something to the FP worth spanking the lst boss in T5 and i will start beating on him again. as the loot table is laid out now.....SKIP

The best "solution" to boss skipping is asking your team if they will do them. Honestly, I have never seen a PUG refuse a request. If they do say no, and you really care about the crap drops from those bosses, you can /leave the group and find another. I am sure that no one will really care if they need to wait a few minutes for another person... Most of the time it's the fresh 50s who don't want to skip.

Just to point out something: in most HM fps, the last boss drop is the only worthwhile upgrade for fresh 50s(not counting the BH coms from completing the daily). Which will hold true once 1.6 comes out, when all fresh 50s will get a free set of tionese gear. And not all bosses can be skipped anyway, so chances are you'll be getting some drops one way or another.

Thoughts on this???

It wouldn't so much "fix boss skipping" as "completely destabilize the market and screw over most of the people trying to get gear rather than mats from FPs".

Most of the people in Black Hole or better gear can, with a companion or a friend, solo the entirety of an HM FP in about the same amount of time as it takes to drag a new 50 through. The primary reason said overgeared individuals run through the GF is because black hole commendations are worth something to them. By providing a chance for a grade 8 crafting mat to drop from each boss, which then is randomly divvied out by rolling, you actually encourage said people to stop doing runs with random people and instead begin running them solo so that, if a molecular stabilizer *does* drop, they get it rather than providing an even chance to a fresh 50 random that they don't even know but are functionally being forced to carry through the content.

The screwing up of the market would be from the fact that none of the HM FPs are limited to the number of times that they can be run in a day: there is no lockout. As such, if you wanted to farm up Stabs, you could easily spend 2-3 hours punching the fastest, easiest HM FP (probably False Emperor) and get 2 per run (assuming a 50% chance of getting one to drop with 4 bosses in each having a chance to drop said stabilizer) for a total of 6 stabilizers without having to group up whatsoever and the option to run even more later if you wanted to. As such, people that are overgeared would run the HM FPs while solo and just glut the market with molecular stabilizers, pretty much the only commodity worth an appreciable amount at the moment. In the same amount of time that it takes to run TfB or EC, you could get more stabs than the entire run with 8 people would have generated.

A rather sizeable tweak to your system so that people would actually run in group finder rather than solo would be to provide a per-character box that drops off of each boss that has a chance (~16% if you want to have a roughly total 50% chance per boss that someone gets one) to provide a molecular stabilizer for each character. A different tweak would be to provide a stacking buff a la Diablo 3's Nephalem Valor that provides an increased chance for a stabilizer to drop at the end based upon the number of bosses killed before the end of the FP. Even then, because you aren't limited to the number of HM FP runs you can make per day, you would still have people running HM FPs ad infinitum just to get stabilizers (each run would take 45 minutes at most and would provide a ~50-60% net chance for one or more stabilizers), which means that it would be possible for people running content they vastly overgear to acquire .66-.8 molecular stabilizers per hour when the current rates are running through Ops limited to 1 run per week (generating 8-12 stabs across 8 people for 1-2 hours of efficiently done work with each Op), doing Space Missions daily (200 fleet comms per box which provides 2 stabs on average, you can get 100 fleet comms/day with about 90 minutes of work, for 1 stabilizer per 1.5 hours every 2 days), and cashing in Black Hole comms for gear to be REd (the most efficient would be armor or synth breaking up belts that cost 30 comms for 1 stabilizer on average, which is probably the absolutely least efficient method for acquiring stabs considering what is required to get 30 BH comms). In short, not only would be you providing a method for acquiring stabilizers that can be repeated infinitely per day when every other method is limited to either a per day or per week limitation, you'd also be providing a method that is *substantially* more time and effort efficient than the existing mechanisms.

If the developers really wanted to make players kill bosses rather than skip them, they would simply make the bosses specifically required to be killed as part of the FP's story or cut off the paths used to skip them. The only carrots substantial enough to really make people stop skipping would end up screwing with the economy and intended gear progression (imagine getting full 27 gear by just running HM FPs because you could get all the stabilizers you would ever need).

As it stands, I honestly don't think the developers really have a problem with the rampant skipping involved in so many of the HM FPs. If they did, they would have done something by now (like they did with EC's rainbow road skipping thing). Even if it wasn't intended, it doesn't really detract appreciably from the overall experience; it's just part of the current culture. As to the gear problems, in 1.6, the devs are providing every starting 50 with a full set of tionese gear. You might luck into a non-set Columi piece by killing a certain boss that can be skipped, but, if you're already packing Tionese, the cost/benefit really isn't justified since the reward doesn't really stack up in most people's mind (you'd have a 6.25-8.33% chance of actually getting a class/spec appropriate upgrade; even if the boss takes only 2-3 minutes, averaged out, it's not really efficient use of your time).

My thoughts on it?

It's fine the way it is, worst comes to worst significantly up the amount of credits a boss drops, nothign else is needed.

The best "solution" to boss skipping is asking your team if they will do them. Honestly, I have never seen a PUG refuse a request. If they do say no, and you really care about the crap drops from those bosses, you can /leave the group and find another. I am sure that no one will really care if they need to wait a few minutes for another person... Most of the time it's the fresh 50s who don't want to skip.

 

Just to point out something: in most HM fps, the last boss drop is the only worthwhile upgrade for fresh 50s(not counting the BH coms from completing the daily). Which will hold true once 1.6 comes out, when all fresh 50s will get a free set of tionese gear. And not all bosses can be skipped anyway, so chances are you'll be getting some drops one way or another.

This is what I was going to say. Boss skipping is not a problem for 90% of the people running these, since all they want is the comms or, at most, the last boss drop.

However, I think if someone want to NOT skip bosses, imo, they should be able to say so and have the group kill the bosses in question. At least, I wouldn't ever say no to that.

I was just thinking, lots of people are getting pissed because other people just want to skip bosses and get through the FP as fast as possible for various reasons. Sooo, I was thinking what if........... BW altered the loot tables on higher lvl FP bosses (exp = False emperor, Directive 7, Koan, Lost Island) so theirs a 50-60 % chance for a Molecular Stabilizer or a Matrix Cube to drop. No one would want to skip a boss if they knew their was a chance of one of those Matts dropping.

 

Thoughts on this???

The crafters would have an absolute fit. Molecular stabilizers have become an economy in and of themselves. When biometric crystal alloys started being as common as you're asking stabilizers to be, they dropped from being worth 80k per to basically nothing in under a week.

It wouldn't so much "fix boss skipping" as "completely destabilize the market and screw over most of the people trying to get gear rather than mats from FPs".

You call it "destabilize the market", I call it "level the trading/crafting field".

You call it "destabilize the market", I call it "level the trading/crafting field".

Good luck getting anyone 61+ gear level if they implement something like that. I'd just 2 man farm entire HM flashpoints. Not to mention the current cost of stabilizers would be dumbed down to the level of Biometric Crystal Alloys. The population willing to do Group Finder HM's would drop seriously.

Good luck getting anyone 61+ gear level if they implement something like that. I'd just 2 man farm entire HM flashpoints. Not to mention the current cost of stabilizers would be dumbed down to the level of Biometric Crystal Alloys. The population willing to do Group Finder HM's would drop seriously.

I see nothing wrong here. Farmers farm, players play.

Like kitru said earlier,, and it have been suggesed in other threads too. Make all bosses needed for the FP to complete. Or you could increase agrorange on mobs in FP´s. That would reduce the skipping of trash alot too.

I know, lots of people would complaint about not being able to skip, but the complaint would probably be from the same people who barely run any FP anymore, and when the do they do it for BH coms that they most likely only would need for an alt or a companon.

Like kitru said earlier,, and it have been suggesed in other threads too. Make all bosses needed for the FP to complete. Or you could increase agrorange on mobs in FP´s. That would reduce the skipping of trash alot too.

 

I know, lots of people would complaint about not being able to skip, but the complaint would probably be from the same people who barely run any FP anymore, and when the do they do it for BH coms that they most likely only would need for an alt or a companon.

Why should EVERYONE be punished because of a few QQers on the forums .. you CANNOT force people into doing complete runs. If you really want to kill everything - setup your own groups.

Btw I run random t1s pretty much every day on my BiS 63 main .. why on earth would I want to waste time on bosses which drop tionese crystals ( of which i am already capped ) or outdated gear ( worse then the free recruit stuff we are getting ).

Also finding new ways to skip stuff can be pretty fun

Why should EVERYONE be punished because of a few QQers on the forums .. you CANNOT force people into doing complete runs. If you really want to kill everything - setup your own groups.

 

Btw I run random t1s pretty much every day on my BiS 63 main .. why on earth would I want to waste time on bosses which drop tionese crystals ( of which i am already capped ) or outdated gear ( worse then the free recruit stuff we are getting ).

 

Also finding new ways to skip stuff can be pretty fun

Let us exchange loads of crystals for top-tier craft bags?

Let us exchange loads of crystals for top-tier craft bags?

Not sure you boys have been reading the dev notes.

In 1.6, you will be able to trade 25 tionese crystals for an 'ancient artifact box'.

My main has capped at 1000 crystals.

Figure I'll get a lot of stuff I won't want ( purple lvl 50 ears. meh ).

But, I'll probably also get a 'prototype' something out of my 40 boxes. Those are always nice.

In 1.6, you will be able to trade 25 tionese crystals for an 'ancient artifact box'.

BW needs to be extremely careful about fixing this or they will run off the overgeared masses from random GF. I know if I have to fight every mob and every boss, then I will be taking my little healer on guild runs in GF. As it is now I do random GF everyday on my healer, sometimes more than once if people are yelling in chat that the need healers in GF. Now when I go in, I will do whatever the group wants. I will do a full clear if that is what the group wants, but if I knew every run was going to be a full clear, then I would not be going as often as I do.

I also only go on GF HMFP when it is a instant pop. If it does not pop right away, I figure they have plenty of healers or lack tanks and I will go level alts for a while before coming back to check again. So I know for a fact running off tanks and healers from GF by doing something stupid is not a good thing.

Not sure you boys have been reading the dev notes.

 

In 1.6, you will be able to trade 25 tionese crystals for an 'ancient artifact box'.

 

My main has capped at 1000 crystals.

 

Figure I'll get a lot of stuff I won't want ( purple lvl 50 ears. meh ).

 

But, I'll probably also get a 'prototype' something out of my 40 boxes. Those are always nice.

1.6 is not up yet .. i ve been capped on tionese crystals for MONTHS on several of my chars ..

Anyway my point was that I'm not a fan of removing the OPTION of skipping .. I do like the flashpoints a lot .. i've cleared them fully a number of times and I understand that other people may be interested in doing that now, but I am NOT ( most of the time ) and I don't see a reason why I should be FORCED into doing so.

How to fix Boss skipping

What? When did boss skipping get broken?

No, I don't think it is broken.

I was able to skip bosses just fine even today.

You call it "destabilize the market", I call it "level the trading/crafting field".

It's not leveling the field when you're turning what is, nominally, a valuable commodity, into something that anyone and everyone has in abundance, especially when it's the commodity that is used in making the best gear in the game, at the moment, and is the only commodity required to make said best gear in the game that is even remotely hard to get compared to the amount needed. At that point, it's nuking the field because you're just doing to reduce *every* commodity required to make what is currently top tier gear cheap as BCAs are.

One of the important aspects of end game content is gear and content progression. If Molecular Stabilizers were made as ridiculously common as you seem to want them to be, people would go from hitting level 50, to full tionese immediately (which we're getting in 1.6), to full 63, many without ever setting foot in an operation or content harder than a t1 flashpoint. There wouldn't be any gear or content progression because you'd be able to lounge in the best gear there is while doing the easiest content there is. The reward you're recommending is vastly out of line with the difficulty *and* the time required, both in real time and play time.

Making Molecular Stabilizers as common as you seem to want them is a small step below simply providing anyone and everyone with full 63 gear as soon as they hit 50 (which it would be entirely possible to do for alts with the glut of stabilizers or for anyone that knows how to play the market a bit). Sure, *some* people would love it, but it makes gear progression a non-issue and takes away any kind of real sense of achievement from acquiring gear. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of welfare epics for entry level 50s, but I definitely oppose it when said welfare epics are BiS or damned near close to it.

Making Molecular Stabilizers as common as you seem to want them is a small step below simply providing anyone and everyone with full 63 gear as soon as they hit 50 (which it would be entirely possible to do for alts with the glut of stabilizers or for anyone that knows how to play the market a bit). Sure, *some* people would love it, but it makes gear progression a non-issue and takes away any kind of real sense of achievement from acquiring gear. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of welfare epics for entry level 50s, but I definitely oppose it when said welfare epics are BiS or damned near close to it.

Now she just needs 1 realic, a belt and our imp guild to get another tank to 50 and she will be in her share of ops.

Plus there are more than enough Molecular Stabilizers now, provided your guild does their weekly ops.

It's not leveling the field when you're turning what is, nominally, a valuable commodity, into something that anyone and everyone has in abundance,<..........>

Rather have that than a select minority group of people practically having a monopoly on a resource that all others use. Raids should not be the main (practically sole, as it is now) source of one of the most sought-after crafting components. Economy should not be so dependent on Operations.

That said, I indeed do not think that making them drop off HM FP bosses is the best solution. Craft boxes buyable with crystals definitely is a step in the right direction, though.

How to fix boss skipping? Easy. Second that works with bosses would be a door that opens when the boss is killed. Thats how they do it elsewhere.

totally agree here. design instance mechanics that require their killing to progress further on. the more established mmo makers have had this for some time.

a similar idea is to make them part of the quest itself. much like the h4 bh quest.

or make each boss drop the bh coms and have the daily reduced to one or two.

the root of the problem is with the bh coms in how they are earned and the process of instance progression. if you change any one of the two, the solution to skipping is rather simple to solve.

Rather have that than a select minority group of people practically having a monopoly on a resource that all others use. Raids should not be the main (practically sole, as it is now) source of one of the most sought-after crafting components. Economy should not be so dependent on Operations.

 

That said, I indeed do not think that making them drop off HM FP bosses is the best solution. Craft boxes buyable with crystals definitely is a step in the right direction, though.

The gear in question is only necessary for operations, so it makes sense for the majority of drops to come from those.

But more to the point, operations are not the only source of these. If you have the right crew skills, you get 4 stabilizers from reverse engineering every moddable black hole piece. You don't need to run an operation to buy those. Can get a two pack in 2 days from running space missions.

Why you would need this stuff if you do not run operations is anybody's guess though.