I was going through some sites tonight when I ran across this article about ME4. Some of it I like others not so much.

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/4-Things-We-Learned-About-Mass-Effect-4-Comic-Con-66468.html?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_228868

Nothing can get me excited about Mass Effect 4 after the monumental **** Bioware took on the game and its customers after the 3rd one... The fact Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble can even be quoted in a serious sense shows how stupid people are that they listen to anything they'll say... Mass Effect 3 is the reason I'll never preorder another game and have a feeling of contempt towards Bioware in general, which they seem to enjoy perpetuating in people with their staggering amount of miscues and actions that lack any foresight... I hope Mass Effect 4 fails hard, I won't be purchasing it, and know both of my brother-in-laws and other friends have no more interest in the ME universe... GG Bioware...

Well, ME"4" is supposed to be more about exploration rather than a effed up corridor shooter, thereis even a video about the new Mako driving around some snowy area.

Nothing can get me excited about Mass Effect 4 after the monumental **** Bioware took on the game and its customers after the 3rd one...

Likewise. First they released ME3 with messed up custom face meshes (wrong head shapes, eyelashes buried in the heads, wrong colors - gray hair instead of black, etc.), then they denied there was a problem ("It's just the lighting!"), then they didn't fix it...then, when a fan-made fix was released, they locked and buried the forum thread about it.

 

SWTOR is the last remnant of the pre-ME3 Bioware. I've played all their games ever since KotOR, but I have zero interest in ME4, or DA:I, or Shadow Realms or whatever it's called.

Likewise. First they released ME3 with messed up custom face meshes (wrong head shapes, eyelashes buried in the heads, wrong colors - gray hair instead of black, etc.), then they denied there was a problem ("It's just the lighting!"), then they didn't fix it...then, when a fan-made fix was released, they locked and buried the forum thread about it.

 

SWTOR is the last remnant of the pre-ME3 Bioware. I've played all their games ever since KotOR, but I have zero interest in ME4, or DA:I, or Shadow Realms or whatever it's called.

 

This is my opinion on the subject as well.

 

I wasn't the biggest fan of ME2 when it first launched but next to the clusterf**k that ME3 was, I regard the former as a masterpiece, though not quite on par with the original ME.

 

Regardless, cool article but still, bargain bin for me.

I'm going to at least try ME4 when it comes out since it isn't being made by the same guys who made ME3. The main issue I have is that they chose to go with the protagonist as once again being Human and an N7. I was hoping they would take a page out of Dragon Age's book and give us race options for once.

Nothing can get me excited about Mass Effect 4 after the monumental **** Bioware took on the game and its customers after the 3rd one... The fact Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble can even be quoted in a serious sense shows how stupid people are that they listen to anything they'll say... Mass Effect 3 is the reason I'll never preorder another game and have a feeling of contempt towards Bioware in general, which they seem to enjoy perpetuating in people with their staggering amount of miscues and actions that lack any foresight... I hope Mass Effect 4 fails hard, I won't be purchasing it, and know both of my brother-in-laws and other friends have no more interest in the ME universe... GG Bioware...

 

I am assuming you are talking about the ending since that is the biggest issue that came up.

 

If you are not talking about the ending then idk, I thought the game was great.

 

But on the ending, they were going to piss off people no matter what trying to end 3 games...

 

I still can't believe that we are seeing people completely forget 100+ hours of great story and game just for a 30 minute ending that kinda sucked

I am assuming you are talking about the ending since that is the biggest issue that came up.

 

If you are not talking about the ending then idk, I thought the game was great.

 

But on the ending, they were going to piss off people no matter what trying to end 3 games...

 

I still can't believe that we are seeing people completely forget 100+ hours of great story and game just for a 30 minute ending that kinda sucked

 

I can tell you why. All they needed was a logical ending that made the players feel Iike the end. Like they accomplished something. But no... instead they broke basic narrative rules with that star child BS. Basic narrative writing teaches you NEVER introduce a new character in the last moment because you don't have time to flesh it out. You don't have time to get the audience in with the character and develop it. They violated their own lore several times all because Casey Hudson wanted some philosophical, deeper than life, art movie ending.

 

Just because something CAN have an artsy fartsy, deep ending doesn't mean it should. And why are people upset about the 30 minutes at the end...Because that a big reason of WHY we play.

 

In a game like ME3, the ending was the culmination of three games, 100s of hours of story and personal time. People just wanted to see an ending make sense but Broware let a few people on the team run away with the project because... art.

 

We got a completely non sensical, Deus ex machine ending. Their FIRST cut of the ending didn't even make sense! It was one of those "left up to the viewer endings" that people regularly HATE, even in movie format.

 

There was no good reason for the last 30 minutes to be what it was. It killed what was otherwise a fantastic series. Yes. It ruined ME3. It made ME2 look absolutely incredible by comparison. ME2, while it had the weakest RPG aspects was a much better game all around.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Arkerus

I am assuming you are talking about the ending since that is the biggest issue that came up.

 

If you are not talking about the ending then idk, I thought the game was great.

 

But on the ending, they were going to piss off people no matter what trying to end 3 games...

 

I still can't believe that we are seeing people completely forget 100+ hours of great story and game just for a 30 minute ending that kinda sucked

 

I loved a lot of things they did with ME3, and while the ending didn't completely ruin the game for me it did manage to detract from the overall experience.

With an epic series like Mass Effect you expect the finale to be something grand, something to remember. And instead it was rather mediocre (ending wise).

 

Just like Dragon Age 2's ending irked me when they basically shot the Warden and Hawke into space because of an expansion they planned to make and then scrapped.

Here's to hoping they at least somewhat adress that in DA:I like they've been hinting at on the forums.

Bioware's been dropping the ball pretty hard lately when it comes to endings. Which is unfortunate since the ending's one of the things people tend to remember the most.

I am assuming you are talking about the ending since that is the biggest issue that came up.

 

If you are not talking about the ending then idk, I thought the game was great.

 

But on the ending, they were going to piss off people no matter what trying to end 3 games...

 

I still can't believe that we are seeing people completely forget 100+ hours of great story and game just for a 30 minute ending that kinda sucked

 

there were a lot more issues with ME3 for me at least then the ending. the ending was merely the straw that broke camels back if you will, but it was everything from waaay too much auto dialogue, horrible journal (why, oh why did they change it from prior games to that atrocity?), too much of overhearing stuff not enough actual conversations. seriously while overall it does look like there's more dialogue, most of it is noninteractive, and I for one would rather take fewer conversations but that are actual, you know conversations, inconsistent writing, completely on rails gameplay.

 

I mean.. you start off with a game where you have all the side missions available and 4 main missions you can do in any orders, then you proceed to the game that does have specific progression locked in, but you still get at least some choice of order of recruitment/loyalty missions, and then you move on to the game where missions are 95% linear with only a few side missions here and there having very minor flexibility of when they can be done?

 

and the of course there are visual glitches, import issues, soo much pandering, dear god, I mean they were trying to please the fans I guess, but I just don't think going into BSN support threads and copying fanfiction and silly conversations nearly word for word was the way to go.

 

and don't even get me started on how the handled returning characters. the only one I thought they did justice to, was Garrus and even then, maker help you if you didn't recruit him in ME1 and never really got particularly friendly with him in ME2. he's still your super best friend! >_>

 

and I'm sorry, but I will never forgive them Emily Wong getting killed off on twitter, while they gave a spot to a superfluous IGN "reporter" who cannot even act. I know bioware loves to grab their fans and hire them, but sometimes.. its not a good idea.

 

but anyways. I may sound annoyed but the truth is.. I have come to terms with ME3 for what it is. an interactive, bombastic comic book like story where you are not supposed to think, just feel along with. plus multiplayer turned out to be a hell of a lot more fun than I thought it would be. at least when playing with friends/guildies. and then there are mods that fix import issues, weird completely IMO unnecessary visual changes to the characters (literally, Ashley legacy project is the main reason I can even play my saves where she's alive, her new look bothered me THAT much), and as cliche as MEHEM is, its still more satisfying for me than original ending.

 

however... as long as Casey Hudson is in a lead of a project (not to mention involvement of Mac Walters, though I'm not sure if he's involve, but I know Casey is).. I simply cannot bring myself to feel anything, but caution and distrust.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jeweledleah

On the bright side, they did say they're aware people didn't like the auto-dialogue, and have apparently made them them interactive for DA:I (and probably onwards if it proves popular).

From what I've heard you'll be able to press something to choose a response when your companions make a random comment a la DA2/ME3.

 

As for Ashley... I didn't mind her new looks. She's one of those characters I thought looked better each game.

I still need to do a trilogy playthrough where I actually romance her all the way. Tali and Liara have always stolen the spotlights.

Definitely agreed on the MEHEM mod though! It's the only time in several decades of gaming that I've actually resorted to a fan mod for a game's ending. =/

Edited August 4, 2014 by Callaron

however... as long as Casey Hudson is in a lead of a project (not to mention involvement of Mac Walters, though I'm not sure if he's involve, but I know Casey is).. I simply cannot bring myself to feel anything, but caution and distrust.

 

oh the internets lol

 

nevermind that with out Casey there never would have been a mass effect in the first place and all the hands on work he did over the years developing the trilogy and the awesome team he put together. [not to mention the awesome work he did on kotor] breaking the mold of what a RPG could be and the phenomenal universe and lore that is mass effect that they created from the ground up with the unique original characters that are some of the most loved characters in gaming

 

But hey you've heard Caseys name dropped before so it will sound sooo cool if you try and act like he has no clue how to make a game let alone one of the most unique and respected sci-fi gaming experiences ever

oh the internets lol

 

nevermind that with out Casey there never would have been a mass effect in the first place and all the hands on work he did over the years developing the trilogy and the awesome team he put together. [not to mention the awesome work he did on kotor] breaking the mold of what a RPG could be and the phenomenal universe and lore that is mass effect that they created from the ground up with the unique original characters that are some of the most loved characters in gaming

 

But hey you've heard Caseys name dropped before so it will sound sooo cool if you try and act like he has no clue how to make a game let alone one of the most unique and respected sci-fi gaming experiences ever

 

actualy... honey, i didn't just "hear" the name, I watched the development of these games, I've read interviews with Casey, I've watched him speak. I had a look at "Final hours"

 

and I never said that he doesn't know how to make games, YOU assumed that I did.

 

however, his particular style of leading the team as well as preferences as to what they game should be is different from all the things that attracted me to franchise in a first place. in fact - the very things that apparently appeal to him, given the direction ME2 and ME3 took, are the very things I dislike in my games and my stories.

 

aka, whatever he's working on is something I'm viewing with caution and distrust, rather than excitement. your mileage may vary. but he gradually took a game that started out as classic sci-fi and turned it into Michael Bay production with some Nicholas Sparks thrown in "for teh feels"

 

and incidentally? he was a director of the project. he didn't have anything to do with writing (until third game, and look how THAT turned out) the game wouldn't exist without writers and programmers and artists, people who made Bioware into one of the premier RPG developers. but you are right about one thing. lead sets the tone. and the tone Casey has been setting lately, both for the games and in his interviews is not my thing.

 

but hey, do continue to assume things about me, its entertaining.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jeweledleah

and incidentally? he was a director of the project. he didn't have anything to do with writing (until third game, and look how THAT turned out) the game wouldn't exist without writers and programmers and artists, people who made Bioware into one of the premier RPG developers. but you are right about one thing. lead sets the tone. and the tone Casey has been setting lately, both for the games and in his interviews is not my thing.

 

but hey, do continue to assume things about me, its entertaining.

 

lol so then you didn't actually pay attention to any thing in the final hours of mass effect or any interviews while following development of ANY of the games or you would know that statement is flat out wrong, and he is the one who put together that team of writers and programmers and artists, and did writing and programing and artwork himself too. not only that he was very involved from the ground up with the whole game including music, themes, plot, characters, having choice, what kind of decisions you would have to make, and the normandy

 

from your posts I fail to believe you have been any sort of mass effect fan ever

Edited August 5, 2014 by Vis-Tecum

lol so then you didn't actually pay attention to any thing in the final hours of mass effect or any interviews while following development of ANY of the games or you would know that statement is flat out wrong, and he is the one who put together that team of writers and programmers and artists, and did writing and programing and artwork himself too. not only that he was very involved from the ground up with the whole game including music, themes, plot, characters, having choice, what kind of decisions you would have to make, and the normandy

 

from your posts I fail to believe you have been any sort of mass effect fan ever

 

You guys are arguing semantics.

 

The point is...Casey Hudson did a fine job when he was doing what he was hired to do. Manage a project and direct people. IN fact, he probably did a GREAT job. The man is a talented project team manager and a good visionary.

 

The problem, similar to someone like George Lucas, is when no on is around to control their ideas. Casey apparently wanted to put his final mark on the 3rd game. And you can tell. The final scene is a total cluster job of unfinished ideas and artsy, deeper than life, lessons that it really makes no sense to anyone. He violated long standing narrative principles for what...art?

 

This happens all the time. People who are great directors and have big visions often FAIL when left unchecked. There were all kinds of final scenes laid out but it was all scrapped so Casey could get his mark on the game. He got his ending. And honestly, many scenes in that game are incredible but they are marred by the laughably stupid scenes that were left in.

 

I've already explained why this is important in another post so you can go back and read that.

 

As for Casey Hudson, I hope he does well and his next project works out. Just don't leave him unchecked.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Arkerus

As for Casey Hudson, I hope he does well and his next project works out. Just don't leave him unchecked.

 

I assume that your basing this entirely on a rumor from the supposedly written by Patrick Weekes post on the penny arcade forum that even Patrick came out and said that he did not write.

 

again LOL at the internets

in other words... don't you dare criticizing Casey Hudson. after all, since he was director on KOTOR, he can do no wrong, amirite?

 

and any and all information that shows that he "evolved" into something very different from where he started out. was he supervised before, and has full control now? did he just generally change as people do, maybe he was affected by success of gears of war and all those shooters that are so damn similar, I can barely tell them apart, who the hell knows, but results are still there.

 

Mass Effect games changed tone. and it started with ME2 actualy. ME3 just cinched it. oh, the gameplay improved and some of the other little details, I would be the first to admit that ME1 fights could use some work, to put it mildly (although to me it was actualy a boon, as I tend to just roll all biotic team in ME1 and have a field day with anything I encounter). but the overall tone of storytelling has changed. instead of armor, we have catsuits and buttshots. too many characters got Flanderized. hell ME3 mission setup makes DA2 look flexible and that game is as linear as they come. and hey, maybe for some people that was an improvement. not for me. so no. Idon't trust Casey Hudson anymore, as he doesn't make the games that appeal to me anymore. even if they are set in a universe I've grown attached to.

 

and while I don't have to defend my "fan cred" to you, darling (the whole "real fan" ******** makes me laugh), but Mass Effect was the first piece of fictional media that inspired me to do fanart and even tiny, very ****y fanfic that I only showed a few people. it was the first time when I actively replayed a game multiple times, no other game before inspired me to do so. but hey... apparently being a "real fan" means you love it all no matter what, right? even if the games take a left turn so sharp, they might as well be someone's fanfic reimagining. (and considering how much stuff in ME3 they pulled directly from, pardon - "were inspired by" fanfics and the like.... yeah... )

it was the first time when I actively replayed a game multiple times, no other game before inspired me to do so. but hey... apparently being a "real fan" means you love it all no matter what, right? even if the games take a left turn so sharp, they might as well be someone's fanfic reimagining. (and considering how much stuff in ME3 they pulled directly from, pardon - "were inspired by" fanfics and the like.... yeah... )

 

and yet you still think that bashing the person responsible for it all [not discrediting the whole team but lets be honest none of them went to the doctors with the idea, and Casey is very passionate about mass effect and very hands on in the development of all 3 titles] is cool because you have some very minor gripes about gameplay and story even admitting you don't like things that are unique to the IP like renegade paragon interrupts.

 

you are using Casey [and Mac] as a scape goat because there is things about the games you don't like, that is wrong considering how much work and time he has put into that game for US. not to mention how sincere he is about the fans, and the game.

 

again this is a internet thing were people act petty and point fingers to blame people for their own hang ups about stuff or just to act like they are better then people who are a lot more successful and talented then they will ever be

 

you don't have to like everything about mass effect, I my self have a lot of things that I think could of been done better / different, but saying that a mass effect game would be better with out Casey or that because Casey is still in charge it wont be any good is just petty, misinformed, and INSULTING

Edited August 5, 2014 by Vis-Tecum

yay for putting words in my mouth again. nowhere did I "bash" Casey. unless you consider me comparing him to Michael Bay as their styles seem to be similar nowadays - bashing.

 

I said, repeatedly that direction that he takes games now? is not working for me. sexualization of female characters, fixating on some minor trait as it it were defining feature "calibrations" anyone? making games more linear, focusing on the visual effects at the cost of narrative coherence.

 

obviously it works for some people. hell, maybe that's why he did it, because this stuff seems to sell and sell well. but that also means, I can no longer expect him to tell stories that I actualy enjoy.

 

he.

doesn't.

make.

games

I

PERSONALLY.

like

anymore.

 

at least given prior precedent.

 

I'm not going to assume that he has changed his mind and his preferences back to those that more align with mine, based on games that came before his recent work. that would be silly.

 

I'm not ruling out possibility of new Mass effect surprising me pleasantly, who the hell knows. I just NO. LONGER. EXPECT. IT.

 

if this is still not clear for you, I don't know what to tell you, hon.

 

P.S.

renegade/paragon interrupts

1. didn't exist in ME1.

2. are in no way unique to the franchise. they are quick time events in a slightly different skin. I don't like them becasue they are quick time events and because if I wait too long to hear the rest of the dialogue, I may miss it and get an outcome I don't want, but if I hit them too early - it interrupts the dialog abruptly, often in a middle of the word.

 

P.P.S. the moment you accused me of jealousy, you lost this argument anyways.

 

and becasue I just remembered. I'm amused that when it comes to praise - you heap it all on Casey's shoulders, but when it comes to criticism, it must be someone else's fault. either he's responsible, or he's not.

 

and moreover, on other team member's choices- David Gaider, who while works on a different team, still works for Bioware and has been working for quite some time - wrote a very educational post.

 

http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/81396064566/ive-always-been-curious-about-how-much-pull-a-lead

 

or in other words... if project lead wants character to look "sexier" for example, doesn't matter how artists feel about it. they were hired to do a job and that's what they do. among other things.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jeweledleah

I assume that your basing this entirely on a rumor from the supposedly written by Patrick Weekes post on the penny arcade forum that even Patrick came out and said that he did not write.

 

again LOL at the internets

 

Casey directly responded to the criticisms of the game. He is the head of the project. Plus, that forum post was taken down immediately and verified to be his account. SO...you make whatever call you want.

 

And I wasn't being combative about it. I was just discussing why the ending is so disconnected from the ENTIRE GAME SERIES.

 

Its so disconnected the ending feels like an entirely different ending to a different game. The general consensus is that the series is fantastic with a major bomb for an ending. Does that make it worthless and pointless to recommend to people? No. Would I tell anyone who asks me? yes. Would I say it was Casey? No, not really, that's kind of beside the point now.

 

And WHY are you going out of your way to defend the man? He's your friend? Personal colleague? Super Companion?

 

He made some awesome games. Everyone can make mistakes.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Arkerus

I still can't believe that we are seeing people completely forget 100+ hours of great story and game just for a 30 minute ending that kinda sucked

 

The ending made your 100+ hours of game play pointless...

 

It turns out, none of your decisions really mattered, the outcome was predetermined...

 

And it doesn't even make sense, "organics and machines can't get along"? Oh really, because YOU JUST GOT THE GETH AND QUARIANS TO GET ALONG, so yea, of course THAT'LL never work...

 

The ending felt written by someone who hadn't even played the game and paid no attention to anything about who Cmd. Sheppard was and what happened.

 

It sucked, don't gloss over that fact.

The ending made your 100+ hours of game play pointless...

 

It turns out, none of your decisions really mattered, the outcome was predetermined...

 

And it doesn't even make sense, "organics and machines can't get along"? Oh really, because YOU JUST GOT THE GETH AND QUARIANS TO GET ALONG, so yea, of course THAT'LL never work...

 

The ending felt written by someone who hadn't even played the game and paid no attention to anything about who Cmd. Sheppard was and what happened.

 

It sucked, don't gloss over that fact.

 

There's a reason journalists are still asking whether Bioware has learned from the mistakes with DA2 and ME3.

There are tons of articles out there that have brought it up during their interviews with them, and at least one where Bioware's devs admitted that they misjudged how attached people had gotten to their characters, and that they missed the mark with ME3's ending.

Looks like Leah can feel more secure about ME4!

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/418832/page/1

http://blog.bioware.com/2014/08/07/casey-hudsons-departure-from-biowareea/

Looks like Leah can feel more secure about ME4!

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/418832/page/1

http://blog.bioware.com/2014/08/07/casey-hudsons-departure-from-biowareea/

 

Interesting. Can't say I really care either way but I am not surprised.

Looks like Leah can feel more secure about ME4!

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/418832/page/1

http://blog.bioware.com/2014/08/07/casey-hudsons-departure-from-biowareea/

 

I was just about to post this, but you beat me to it

 

and well... still not secure. no idea who is leading the project, or what it looks like at this point.

 

but.. certainly more curious now