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1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting


fendergibson

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This is part of the problem. Just like a ton of PvEer's never want to PvP a lot of PvP players never want to PvE. PvP players tend to not want to have to PvE to compete in PvP. Ask Mythic how people in DAOC felt about Trials of Atlantis(I loved it but I like PvE too). This is shown to be historically true and I think its true here as well.

 

Well, then its not a big deal for me. Like you said its the nature of the game to have lvls of 40s being to well equipped for 30s and cant do the same content.

 

Part of the frustration is probably from hitting lvl 50 and expecting that to mean an even playing field but lvl 50 is misleading as it being the final stage.

 

When someone hits lvl 50 it more like 50.0, and when they do their dailies to get better mods its 50.1, and then they get centurion and champ items, its 50.2, etc

 

Well, at least now I know whats going in. I think its normal, but I hope it does not mean i have to spend a lot of time to raid, or what not to equal the playing field. That would be a problem. As it is now, the grind to BM is not that bad at all, but the advantages seem a bit too much for my liking. I would prefer the playing field to be a bit more even, and more about options of play, or immersive options of play like sand box.

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Hardcore MMO PvE and PvP players are similar. For PvE players it's about capping and getting all the best loot as fast as possible. This way they spend the next few months enjoying all the content with ease until the next expansion comes and makes everything they did worthless.

 

For PvP players its about capping out and getting all the best loot as fast as possible so that they can kill the average player with ease and enjoy PvPing till the next expansion comes out and makes everything they did worthless.

 

 

You can never please both the casual crowd and the hardcore crowd. The crowd a company caters to depends on how much new blood the game is attracting. If you have enough casual players coming and going you dont have to pay as much attention to the bandwidth hogging hardcore players who will subscribe longer.

 

I just don't buy the PvP for the "challenge" thing. The first 10 times you PvPed might have been for the challenge. The next 50 times was in the chase for something otherwise you would have been bored by now. Hardcore players both in PvP and in PvE do the same thing over and over and over again to be better then the average player. Not just through skill but artifically by time invested like Goku after the Hyperbolic time chamber. Otherwise Experience points wouldnt exist. Its just my opinion but all MMOs ive played have been setup this way.

 

People seem to have no problem with this when it comes to PVE. Level 1 players dont stand a chance in level 50 content. When a level 45 player starts forming a group and a level 30 asks to join hes often told something like "your level is to low and you'll die to fast". But when it comes to PvP everyone expects the playing field to be even no matter how much time you have invested. This is an MMO not a FPS or fighting game... You have to give PvPers something worth playing the same content over and over and over or they will get bored and quit.

 

I'm just curious why it's so hard to believe that some people actually do enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP, and the gear is only a means to do that w/out a disadvantage?

 

I don't agree that it's the same thing over and over again simply because the maps are the same. The teams are different, the players are different, and their reactions are different.

 

It's enough for me to just fight people and have fun doing it. I enjoy progression as well (obviously, since I'm playing a RPG), but I don't think it has any real place in a competitive PvP environment. I do believe in that arena of play, things should be as even as possible given the differences between mods, classes, and setups.

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Well, then its not a big deal for me. Like you said its the nature of the game to have lvls of 40s being to well equipped for 30s and cant do the same content.

 

Part of the frustration is probably from hitting lvl 50 and expecting that to mean an even playing field but lvl 50 is misleading as it being the final stage.

 

When someone hits lvl 50 it more like 50.0, and when they do their dailies to get better mods its 50.1, and then they get centurion and champ items, its 50.2, etc

 

Well, at least now I know whats going in. I think its normal, but I hope it does not mean i have to spend a lot of time to raid, or what not to equal the playing field. That would be a problem. As it is now, the grind to BM is not that bad at all, but the advantages seem a bit too much for my liking. I would prefer the playing field to be a bit more even, and more about options of play, or immersive options of play like sand box.

 

 

 

Tons of MMOs are setup this way from DAOC to Everquest2. In DAOC hitting 50 was just the start. Now you needed to farm RR. In classic you had 50 regular levels and then 10 realm(pvp) levels. Everquest2 was 50 levels and 10AA levels. SWTOR is even more... Its what 50PvE levels and assuming you were PvPing some while leveling by the time you hit 50 you got 30 PvP levels to go. These games are timesinks. Now a days hitting 50 is just the beginning of an even more arduous grind and regular MMO players should know this by now.

 

To the guy who said he doesnt understand why people dont understand that some people like to PvP for PvP sake. I do understand that. I love to PvP but doing the same warzones over and over against the same people (you know who you are) gets boring after a while even for the most hardcore PvP lover. Now, I'm not judging you. I don't know you and you could love to PvP and never get bored as long as you are playing against another human but others need more motivation than that. This is an MMO. The "average" hardcore PvEer and PvPer are looking for the same thing. You dont see people telling PvEers "Hey man can't you do this zone with just skill? Just equip the most basic gear in your inventory for your level". Most PvPers want gear that helps them kill players just like PvEers want gear that helps them kill mobs.

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I very much understand the difference. I grew up on systems like SWG where there was actually a hybrid of both pvp and pve and player made gear (still the best system in my opinion). Then I graduated to WoW where, as I noted before, there was a gear progression system in "Ranked PvP" I enjoyed that too because it really struck a competitive chord in me and many other papers.

 

SWTOR is now poised to really become none of the above. Gear not for winning, just for participation, but not player made. Doled out to the masses, not very good in PvE, etc.

 

So if we really have moved into care bear mode as far as pvp gear progression, lets just up and admit that's where we are.

 

Pve gear progression in pvp is care bear. Flat out brawling is core pvp. People who don't like to pvp except for gear are not hardcore. I don't know where you got it twisted.

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DaOC had realm ranks. Each rank had a ability. As you gained in realm ranks you became that much more powerful.

 

In the utopia pvp format people are advocating here that won't work. It has already failed because some people use datacrons, stims, and other things which adjust the skill level....unless you remove all this upon entering a rated warzone.

 

Sorry, but datacrons arent hard to get, its part of each planet. Or you can read/watch a guide. Its part of leveling. Stims are also part of leveling or things everyone can buy, its up to them if they chose to or not. Its not forced on them, its optional.

 

Rated gear would not be optional, it would force people into doing that type of thing at a steady rate, this is where fun ends in a game.

 

I'm not advocating a utopia where everyone has equal gear at all times. I advocate a game where everyone has the chance to get the gear, without having to make schedules irl to not drop ranks or such. In short.

 

I'm completely against any form of rated BG system that requires a rating for competative gear.

 

I'm against any form of weekly cap on PvP currency.

 

Reason for these two opinions is because many people, no make that most, dont have time to spend to keep ratings up or get the points cap each week. Some people might have to skip gaming for a week or two in a row, then the week after they have a chance to catch up, something you cant with a system where ratings decides what gear you can get or a system where currency is capped at a weekly cap.

 

These days I play alot, more than alot actually. But I used to be in a situation where I just couldnt find time to play. I fell behind horribly in game, and when I actually did find time I didnt have a shot at catching up. And it felt pointless to continue. So I went back to casual PvP but always felt that it was boring, having to run into overly geared people because whoopdidoo, they had time on their hands.

 

These types of systems have been part of the biggest MMO since its first introduction of PvP. And that game is WoW. Since PvP saw light in that game it has been a time consuming effort, from the first version to the last. Although the last version was more forgiving since everyone had the option to buy the best gear, except for weapons.

 

It went to the extent in the first version that people had friends play their toons when they didnt have time, just to reach the highest rank to get the best gear. It was even syndicated. Guild/people helped other guilds/people to gain the ranks before backing down for others to have a shot. The server I was on had 1 or maybe two people that had gotten max rank on their own.

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Pve gear progression in pvp is care bear. Flat out brawling is core pvp. People who don't like to pvp except for gear are not hardcore. I don't know where you got it twisted.

 

QFT. Gear is a crutch for people to hide behind. Even in WoW, past 2200 everyone had equal gear and it did, in fact, come down to skill (and, to an extent, imbalanced comps, for arenas at least). RBGs past 2200? Most fun I've ever had in PvP.

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Many percieved PvP imbalances are because of the crappy Hero engine. The engine is so CPU intensive that many peoples computers just can't run it fast enough to get the response they need in PvP. No offence to hardcore players but people who's lives revolve around their computers tend to have better computers. People who are casual tend to have worse machines. (This is not always true obviously). In near full champ gear I have been pwning battlemasters often since I upgraded my PC. For me this is just a fact. I have never been so good at PvP lol. Why? Because as I circle people it seem to take them to long to start fighting back. So while you might think I hit you once I really hit you like 5 times. The lack of combat logs doesnt help either. So there is no way of telling what kind of damage I really did to you. Combine this with a 12% advantage for Battlemasters and you get major QQ. The difference between full champ and battlemaster isnt big at all(sometimes its a slide backward). Add expertise pots and artifacts and champs should compete fine. It doesnt take long at all to get champ gear. See where I'm going?

 

If the game engine was better people would see this but as it is you need a heavy number crunching cpu like a i7 3930k to PvP with a good frame rate at all times.

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Many percieved PvP imbalances are because of the crappy Hero engine. The engine is so CPU intensive that many peoples computers just can't run it fast enough to get the response they need in PvP. No offence to hardcore players but people who's lives revolve around their computers tend to have better computers. People who are casual tend to have worse machines. (This is not always true obviously). In near full champ gear I have been pwning battlemasters often since I upgraded my PC. For me this is just a fact. I have never been so good at PvP lol. Why? Because as I circle people it seem to take them to long to start fighting back. So while you might think I hit you once I really hit you like 5 times. The lack of combat logs doesnt help either. So there is no way of telling what kind of damage I really did to you. Combine this with a 12% advantage for Battlemasters and you get major QQ. The difference between full champ and battlemaster isnt big at all(sometimes its a slide backward). Add expertise pots and artifacts and champs should compete fine. It doesnt take long at all to get champ gear. See where I'm going?

 

If the game engine was better people would see this but as it is you need a heavy number crunching cpu like a i7 3930k to PvP with a good frame rate at all times.

 

Which is the problem. You shouldn't need a PC of that level to run this game at 60fps on high. It's an MMO ffs. The engine is a piece of **** no matter what CPU you have. My desktop and laptop are both sick and can run any game, MMO, shooter, rpg, whatever on ultra at 70-100fps...except this game.

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This pretty much sums up the idealogical difference. I'm going to call camp #1 the PVP community. If you fall into camp #2, then there is a good chance:

 

1) You do both PVE and PVP

2) You prefer PVE to PVP

3) You don't play this game just to PVP

 

It all comes down to the philosophical question - who should Bioware cater its PVP experience to? I assert they should cater to the PVP community - including those who only play this game to PVP and have never set foot in a raid/operation. Not to say camp #2 shouldn't PVP, in fact the more the merrier. Just don't expect it to be PVE (wins based on repeatable, memorized mechanics and gear advantages), and you will be fine.

 

 

 

I agree. I don't want to chase those in group 2 away. I just want them to embrace and enjoy pvp for what is. Turning pvp into pve is good for nobody.

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That's not my scenario at all, that's just some drivel you made up. Let's call it what it is, shall we?

 

That's not the system we're talking about, we're talking about the 1.2 changes for gear. I'm not sure where this fantasy land scenario you just made up came from, but it has no bearing on anything.

 

In 1.2, there will be PvP gear and you can obtain it like everyone else, given some time. It will be just as good as what the best players wear, but they will probably get theirs faster. And they will still probably kill you, because they are the best players.

 

As for your last line, this actually doesn't apply to PvP at all, because the opponents you face are dynamic and reactive. They ARE the harder content, not their gear. Their tactics/strategy/skill is the harder content. The fact that they are rated higher than you makes them harder content, usually.

 

In PvE, this doesn't happen, so the only way to make you progress is through making harder content and giving you stronger gear to tackle it. PvP doesn't have this shortcoming and doesn't need to follow the same model.

 

 

I would like to support you in saying pvp gear progression would be like boss mobs getting better gear every time they kill a player. It would create an untenable situation as players just chased the same mob with their gear progression but never killing.

 

Pve mobs are static and simple. Pvp mobs are dynamic and complex

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