Deception raid dps is probably worst in the game right now. I know how to play my class, im in full rakata and some black hole, but there is no way in hell I can keep up with marauder, sniper, merc or op dps. The damage meters tell the story. Deception is squishiest spec in the game and cant even do top notch raid dps. Something needs to be done.

Goes for assassins in general, we have the least defense and the lowest dps ratio, not to mention a ****** gap closer and rely to much on critical hits to get burst damage (which we are called out to be)

We are expected to be burst DPS but the only semblance of it we have is if we get 5 charges on surging charge or use recklessness. We are weakest armor in the game. I realize we have stealth but stealth classes with light armor are supposed to do really high dps. Why should marauder get more defensive cooldowns than us but they wear medium armor, do much more dps, and have wayyyy better defensive cooldowns. I've tested my dps multiple times in raids and on the test dummies and have asked other deception sins their number and we consistently have less dps output than just about any other dps spec. Please do something about this bioware its getting to the point where it is pointless to bring dps sins on raids. They don't do ANYTHING better than any one else besides stealth lol.

Test the dps using mox meters, you will see that deception spec does less DPS than every other DPS spec I have seen so far. I am doing the most efficient rotation for my spec, there isnt anything I can do to increase DPS besides get more campaign gear and even that will not put me up to par with other classes. How does a melee, light armor, stealth class do less DPS than medium armor marauders (who have WAY better defensive cooldowns), snipers, operatives, mercs and even sorcs?

Deception raid dps is probably worst in the game right now. I know how to play my class, im in full rakata and some black hole, but there is no way in hell I can keep up with marauder, sniper, merc or op dps. The damage meters tell the story. Deception is squishiest spec in the game and cant even do top notch raid dps. Something needs to be done.

 

Agreed....though I've been topping the charts on some fights since switching to Madness. Still rather place as Deception though...

If I compare my numbers to the mara in my ops group, a 15-20% increase might be enough to do similar dps (he's got quite better gear than i do) if we were equally geared. Now I don't mind marauders/snipers doing higher dps as that's the only thing they can spec for. I don't know how it is with madness spec as I really don't like it, might be less of a gap.

 

So in short, I agree with a bit of flat damage increase!

I raid with dec and haven't have a problem with rage timers, and this is across a wide range of group compositions. I have a 44% crit chance (35% base, extra 9% from the talent in the madness tree, it procs often enough that I always have it in combat., and 59% on voltanic slash due to set bonus + madness talent) and a 74% surge multiplier, so I hit for about 2.5k every few seconds, with bursts in the 4-5k range often. That combined with maul hitting for 3.5k pretty much every time and I'm the one cleaning up mobs in a flash. And I'm only in partial columi gear. Add in the insulation talent and greater health on average and we are close to a medium armor class anyways. I know I don't feel squishy while running with my guildies.

 

For example I have no problems doing corellia dailies solo and have run the associated heroic with just myself, my companion and a healer friend. As opposed to my nearly identically geared merc beating each pull with much less health generally. PvP is another story though, you couldn't pay me to play dec in that savage environment.

 

Maybe you are trying to use tanking gear with a dec build? Are you using full stalker? And what build? I'm using 7/31/3.

 

EDIT: Also are you trying to use a shield instead of a focus?

Edited April 30, 2012 by RiChess

Not to mention Maul still occasionally has some detection problems (i.e Annihilation Droid XRR-3 in EV)

I have no problems doing anything solo, I'm not complaining about that. What I am saying is that my guild likes to run DPS meters and if I consistently put out the lowest DPS (our group usually has a marauder, merc, sniper, and me), why would they continue to bring me along? Luckily we haven't run into enrage timer problems but the harder the content gets I can see my DPS being a problem. There is absolutely nothing I can do to compete with their DPS, it wouldn't matter if I was full campaign and them columi I'm pretty sure. There is nothing I can change in my rotation. It isn't fair that I am the squishest class in the game but coincidentally do the least DPS...

 

EDIT: To the poster that said they are in partial columi above, I am running HM Denova and Nightmare KP and EV, solo dps doesn't really matter that much to what I do.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Citywok

I raid with dec and haven't have a problem with rage timers, and this is across a wide range of group compositions. I have a 44% crit chance (35% base, extra 9% from the talent in the madness tree, it procs often enough that I always have it in combat., and 59% on voltanic slash due to set bonus + madness talent) and a 74% surge multiplier, so I hit for about 2.5k every few seconds, with bursts in the 4-5k range often. That combined with maul hitting for 3.5k pretty much every time and I'm the one cleaning up mobs in a flash. And I'm only in partial columi gear. Add in the insulation talent and greater health on average and we are close to a medium armor class anyways. I know I don't feel squishy while running with my guildies.

 

For example I have no problems doing corellia dailies solo and have run the associated heroic with just myself, my companion and a healer friend. As opposed to my nearly identically geared merc beating each pull with much less health generally. PvP is another story though, you couldn't pay me to play dec in that savage environment.

 

Maybe you are trying to use tanking gear with a dec build? Are you using full stalker? And what build? I'm using 7/31/3.

 

EDIT: Also are you trying to use a shield instead of a focus?

 

You obviously havn't done a parse against a maurauder.

I have the same stats as you do and sounds like the same damages, but you will parse around 1000-1300 dps while a maurader will parse at 1500-2000.

You obviously havn't done a parse against a maurauder.

I have the same stats as you do and sounds like the same damages, but you will parse around 1000-1300 dps while a maurader will parse at 1500-2000.

 

Exactly!!!!!

It was embarrassing the other night in Denova reading the DPS meter because a really good Marauder in my guild did 200,000 more damage than me over the course of a long boss fight. It makes me look like a bad player when there is absolutely nothing I can do to compare.

Okay lets get a few things straight here, Marauders are a pure DPS class. They have only DPS specs. Only one of their specs pulls really high dps in comparison to everything else.

 

Your playing the weakest PvE spec, and asking for buffs. Really? Learn to play Madness if you want maximum PvE DPS. Deception isn't designed for that.

 

A Marauder should do more DPS then you, it's all he's got. He can't taunt and offtank, he can't stealth resurrect. He just stands there an deals damage.

 

You want all the versatility that Assassin brings, and the highest DPS available?

 

Our DPS is right in line with all other hybrids(Sorcs/Mercs/Ops) etc. If your getting outdps'd by everyone, the issue lies between the chair and the computer not the class.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Sireene
use of retarded - PM'd

It's not like Madness is difficult to play either. The only benefits Deception have over Madness is:

1) They don't use DoTs, so they are able to vanish and OOC rez immediately. Madness has to wait for DoTs to fall off.

2) They have shiny abilities. C'mon, Voltaic Slash looks awesome.

 

Madness has overall higher DPS throughput even when switching targets and movement situations but doesn't have the burst of Deception. I am usually top 3 in my 16 man raid group along with our Powertech DPS and Lethality Sniper while being responsible for calling out mechanics, performing mechanics, interrupting, and nerdraging at melee who stand in stuff.

 

In regards to defensive cooldowns and damage reduction abilities, Madness has nice health return and quite a bit of passive damage mitigation through talents (Sith Defiance, Corrupted Flesh, Parasitism). Plus we're still able to use Force Shroud. Deflection is useless whether you're Madness or Deception because it only increases defenses (which we have zero aside from base) rather than provide damage reduction.

 

I'd like to see an overall AoE damage buff. :] Make Lacerate not terrible!

 

 

TL;DR - Roll Madness and be worshipped for your amazing DPS. <3

So your answer to the melee dps spec of assassin not being viable is to forget it and stop complaining and switch to the shared tree? Right....

 

Deception is meant to be the primary melee DPS spec no matter what you say. Madness is not this huge DPS buff like you seem to think it is. The DPS numbers end up being about the same. From the beginning Assassin was supposed to be a high dps burst spec, low armor class. Both of you are wrong when you say that Madness is the proper DPS spec because numbers are about the same. Bioware failed to deliver on what this class was supposed to be. Don't sit here and tell me that Marauders are supposed to do double the DPS I am. You don't think the multiple sins in my guild have tested madness?

I don't think you've tested the meters because both of you are flat out wrong. I don't care how big your epeen is, you are not going to do DPS comparable to most other specs. Any well geared sniper, merc, marauder, op, or sorc who actually is really good at their class is going to do a lot more than you.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Citywok

When you get about 850 power like some people I know, you won't be complaining(as much) about how bad it is.

The Marauders and Mercs of the world will continue to build up power also, so the gap still remains

Deception raid dps is probably worst in the game right now. .

I would say concealment operative

Exactly!!!!!

It was embarrassing the other night in Denova reading the DPS meter because a really good Marauder in my guild did 200,000 more damage than me over the course of a long boss fight. It makes me look like a bad player when there is absolutely nothing I can do to compare.

 

^ This. Except I'm currently being out DPSed by a dps specced Powertech who is currently doing twice as much DPS as I am able to do and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

What's worse is I'm in full Rakata and the powertech is not! Terrible!

i agree with all of u that deception pve needs a bigger buff. But look at the three specs, u got darkness (tanking), deception (imo more for pvp) and then madness (which is dots, and come on when has dots not been good in pve no matter what game your playing). Although i wouldnt agree with that were that bad either. Now im an avid pvper over being pve type guy so my pve gear isnt the best, its just columi and rakata but i still pull threat from our tanks and hes in all rakata and black hole gear. But you can argue well maybe the tank sucks, and thats a possibilty too. However i believe its what u make of it. If you think you are not doing enuf dmg, then switch out ur mods for more power, get as much of it as u can. I run using the pvp chain shock spec(only cuz i dont wanna spend a fortune everytime i switch specs) but our spec wasnt designed to do sustained dps. Were meant to be burst, so ya your overall dps will be lower than most but when we go thru our burst times, look at the parser then and be amazed at what ur pulling. In the end you play with what you like the most, if u like deception play deception, and same goes for madness. One person (for the most part) wont determine the end result of whether you defeat a boss or not, its a team effort for a reason. So try not to worry bout it and just have fun with you class.

The arguement that full dps classes should do significantly more damage than one that has the option of respeccing into a tank or healer is rediculous. They should be balanced to be within 5% of each other. As a deception Assassin, you aren't going to suddenly switch into tank stance and be equal to a regular tank.

 

It comes down to look at what a Marauder can bring vs a deception Assassin. So maybe ~150dps more (which is huge) for equally geared characters, not to mention the Marauder is also providing raid wide buffs in the form of 15% more damage, raid healing with beserk, and movement speed/defense boost with predation. That utility should be the only bonus the Marauder brings at most, with the Assassin doing EQUAL dps.

I hate to break it to you, but EVERY class has a tree that sucks. Luckily mostly classes also have a tree that is great. If you don't like that tree I suggest you reroll.

 

Concealment Operatives are just as gimped Deception Assassins at the moment. And yet if they respecc Lethality just ike an Assassin can specc Madness, they get a huge boost in damage in PVE.

 

One could argue that both Concealment and Deception are far better for PVP however.

 

As for the Marauders you keep trying to compare yourself too, even they suffer from this. Carnage has excellent burst and utility for PVP but is significantly lower on PVE DPS than Annihilation.

 

Tell me again, which specc are the marauders that are beating you so bad running?

 

I could keep going on and on, listing examples such as the Advanced Prototype tree for Powertechs or the Engineering Tree for Snipers.

 

The fact of the matter is every class has trees that are suited for different roles. So if you want to do more damage, specc into your best damage tree, just like everyone else is. If you don't like that tree, then don't play it, but don't complain that you can't do enough DPS if you aren't even speccing into your best option at it.

It's not like Madness is difficult to play either. The only benefits Deception have over Madness is:

1) They don't use DoTs, so they are able to vanish and OOC rez immediately. Madness has to wait for DoTs to fall off.

2) They have shiny abilities. C'mon, Voltaic Slash looks awesome.

 

Madness has overall higher DPS throughput even when switching targets and movement situations but doesn't have the burst of Deception. I am usually top 3 in my 16 man raid group along with our Powertech DPS and Lethality Sniper while being responsible for calling out mechanics, performing mechanics, interrupting, and nerdraging at melee who stand in stuff.

 

In regards to defensive cooldowns and damage reduction abilities, Madness has nice health return and quite a bit of passive damage mitigation through talents (Sith Defiance, Corrupted Flesh, Parasitism). Plus we're still able to use Force Shroud. Deflection is useless whether you're Madness or Deception because it only increases defenses (which we have zero aside from base) rather than provide damage reduction.

 

I'd like to see an overall AoE damage buff. :] Make Lacerate not terrible!

 

 

TL;DR - Roll Madness and be worshipped for your amazing DPS. <3

 

I tried to play madness, its fun i'll give u that, and usefull.

Ranged attacks, self heal, i like it.

But i cant play it aswell as i play deception.

I have to watch my own procs and keep an eye on Dots.

 

Its probably just something i need to relearn but i dont want too.

 

@the guy defending marauders, all your arguments are invalid.

They are just as versatile as any other spec.

 

When you get about 850 power like some people I know, you won't be complaining(as much) about how bad it is.

 

I hope you meant 1850 willpower...

I have 1748 willpower atm.

So your answer to the melee dps spec of assassin not being viable is to forget it and stop complaining and switch to the shared tree? Right....

 

Just because it shares the same name as the Sorc variant and has similar abilities, does not remove the fact it's a melee based spec when you pick Assassin. It requires melee range, just as much as Deception does.

 

Deception is not the only melee spec, and nowhere does it state anywhere "Deception is the primary melee pve dps spec for assassin." You just want it to be, but it's not the case.

 

Every spec has it's uses encounter by encounter, but if your looking for overall highest DPS output, Madness is the best.

 

Also to the guy that said about 5%. Marauders/Snipers pull 1900.. most other classes are sitting at 1800 raid buffed, that's pretty close to your 5% margin. Just sayin.

 

Madness is not this huge DPS buff like you seem to think it is.

 

This comes down to you not being able to play the spec, all theorycrafing and evidence shows to the contrary that Madness is some 100+ DPS higher then Deception. Keep failing though, maybe if you shed enough tears Bioware will make the easiest spec to play the highest DPS for you.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Blyter

So your answer to the melee dps spec of assassin not being viable is to forget it and stop complaining and switch to the shared tree? Right....

 

Deception is meant to be the primary melee DPS spec no matter what you say. Madness is not this huge DPS buff like you seem to think it is. The DPS numbers end up being about the same. From the beginning Assassin was supposed to be a high dps burst spec, low armor class. Both of you are wrong when you say that Madness is the proper DPS spec because numbers are about the same. Bioware failed to deliver on what this class was supposed to be. Don't sit here and tell me that Marauders are supposed to do double the DPS I am. You don't think the multiple sins in my guild have tested madness?

I don't think you've tested the meters because both of you are flat out wrong. I don't care how big your epeen is, you are not going to do DPS comparable to most other specs. Any well geared sniper, merc, marauder, op, or sorc who actually is really good at their class is going to do a lot more than you.

 

^What this guy said, Assassin DPS is supposed to be based on Deception the whole class is built around it, they did not intend for a "shared" tree to be the main spec of this class.

^What this guy said, Assassin DPS is supposed to be based on Deception the whole class is built around it, they did not intend for a "shared" tree to be the main spec of this class.

 

Prove it?

 

If they built the whole class around one spec, there would only be one spec and not three.

 

Madness is the highest DPS for both Sorc and Assassin, would seem to me, Madness was intended to be the highest DPS tree.

 

Stop imposing your wishes as the intention for the class, as it's clearly not the case.