stankopalluza Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hello Bioware and fellow forum viewers. This thread isn't an attempt to flame the game. I'm the raid leader on Saber of Exar Kunof a PUG involving up to 4 different guilds at a time who are currently 10/10 on hard modes and ready to start nightmare difficulty. Despite the bugs and coming from WoW's very pristine experience with end-game I'm really enjoying raiding in TOR and look forward to progressing further. But as we progress, more and more of the members of the PUG are dropping out as members of their own guilds get 50 and start gearing up. The same is happening in my own guild as people are hitting cap and want to begin raiding with us. As it stands now, starting next week all of the members of other guilds I have raided with thus far will be doing hard modes with their own guilds and we are left to fend for ourselves. Which wouldn't be that big of a deal as we have fresh 50's. THE PROBLEM I am encountering, is how very frustrating it is becoming to gear them up for hard modes. The lack of master looting on normal mode operations is really hurting my ability to gear people up for hard modes. This past weekend some of our most geared raiders carried a group of very undergeared players through normal EV in an attempt to get them purples so that they can become a part of our hard mode progression team. It did not work very well. Constantly, players that already had slots filled with the same loot, or often times loot that was better than what dropped, were getting loot decided for them by the automatic in game roll system. And the people that needed the gear, the fresh 50's WE NEED TO GET GEAR so that we can continue progression, were left wanting. Now I can understand the desire behind having this system in place. Perhaps it's the idea that normal modes will primarily be the ops done by PUG's who just want to get their raid on, and it allows random people security in knowing that some greedy raid leader won't ninja loot gear to themselves or their friends. Or that people who shouldn't be rolling on specific pieces of gear don't, perhaps for their companions or some such. But where is the compromise for guilds like mine, who would rather spend the same amount of time to clear 5 operation bosses as it would take to run 1 or 2 hard mode flash points, who know exactly where gear should go and have a desperate need to stay competitive on their server to get that gear where it needs to go? You have a solution in place for the random op groups, and it works relatively well. But people need to be somewhat responsible for themselves, and should be aware of the loot system being used on the ops they're apart of. That's how social games work. Especially in this game, where the server size is relatively small and there isn't a system for paid name changes or server transfers, people who abuse loot systems and "ninja loot" will be ostracized in the community as they should be, with no options available to them but to re-roll somewhere else or attempt to fix their reputation. Master Looting should be available to the rest of us who want to gear out specific people, and avoid needlessly wasted loot given to those of us who have no need of it, which the current system does an awful job of doing. I pray you, please implement a system of master looting for normal mode operations, because the current option is very lacking and extremely frustrating to those of us who need to use normal raids for what they should be: a stepping stone into harder content. It's not worth our time to even run them when loot is constantly being wasted by being automatically looted, against our wishes, to players who have no need of it. Thanks for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olarid Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Agree 10000000000% It's a damn shame that my companion out dps'es half of our guild because we can't assign loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixMatrix Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Having played other MMOs that roll loot individually for people, and seeing the difference in endgame, politics, guild success, etc, I really think the way the normal ops work, with a few tweaks, is a way to go. Tweaks such as not showing what drops if its not assigned to you, and just rolling stuff for everyone, goes a long way. Its really just in people's head that there's a difference...they could just do stuff like auto-assign loot, and AFTER the roll, check if the person needs it according to their current gear, and if not, dont have the loot drop at all, and no one would complain =P That being said, the primary issue is the loot ratio between normal ops and hardmode flashpoints. There's something like a 20:1 effort to reward ratio difference between the two, AND they drop the same stuff. If they fixed the weird RNG issues in hardmodes, dropped 2-3 times as much stuff (like more than one boss dropping columi) and/or drastically adjusted the difficulty to be in line with ops, you wouldnt need to go around passing stuff to your green gear guildies in normal mode ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CzerwonyBaron Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 give people option to pass their loot to someone else who was in raid in next 2h like it was in wow and it would fix the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagBoss Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Wait this is intentional?!?!? I THOUGHT THIS WAS A BUG. I thought this random loot nonsense was a bug because it is so aweful. This blows my mind. Leave it as a type of looting option sure, but give master looter for guilds, leave this for pugs. Edited January 26, 2012 by WagBoss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaiBear Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 We need at least an option to pass or trade it to someone else that was on the fight within 2 hours like WoW does. We would also need a /roll added to the game as for now whenever master looter is use you also have to play as loot council too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundOfDeath Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The way loot being assigned in normal operations work is that loot is rolled for everyone individually, it's not rolled as a group then assigned. So you're not missing out on a drop being assigned to someone else because there was never any chance of you getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fercil Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The way loot being assigned in normal operations work is that loot is rolled for everyone individually, it's not rolled as a group then assigned. So you're not missing out on a drop being assigned to someone else because there was never any chance of you getting it. Not really. The bosses drop certain amount of loot and someone is going to get it. If it would be rolled individually you could have situations where everyone or no-one gets loot and such does not happen. If the loot would be rolled individually with set amount of loot dropping everyone would not have same chance of getting a drop; say 2 first people that game "rolls" for win, the rest won't have much of a chance of getting loot. Likewise, if the first ones wouldn't get loot the probability of rest getting some would increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excentric Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) The problem is Bioware did _half_ the job with this system. It has so much potential , but if the system constantly gives chars with the same loot slotted it's borked. You can't even give away the loot that is assigned to you, if you could it would be a quick fix to the problem really. Like drag 'n drop the item you don't need. I would like to a see the game checking the gear level of people and then assigning the loot, but I'm worried this is alot more work for bioware atm. Edited January 26, 2012 by excentric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doodirock Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 please fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanimus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Yeah this is a problem. The exact same thing happened to use tonight, brought two semi-fresh 50s, and about half the time loot dropped for them in normal EV/KP someone else with better got it and promptly vendored it. Really annoying when you're trying to gear up raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselCheezel Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 How does this system work exactly?. Yet to run an op but it sounds dumb if it can auto-assign items to people who already have the same or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Residentz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't understand why people cry about the looting system in normal mode operations. It works perfect as it is intended to for PUGS. You get almost all same gear from hard mode flash points when you lack some pieces. Should you also ask your fresh 50's to run some HM flash points with couple operations. Then you are more than ready to go into HM operations. Please BW don't add master loot option to normal mode operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoffs Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This is a no-brainer, a working master loot option needs to be added. If a PUG wants to use the old loot system, then just don't use master loot option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithea Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 /signed. Seriously, this is a horribly implemented tool and progression raiders need more to work with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynistra Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 /signed. Seriously, this is a horribly implemented tool and progression raiders need more to work with... Ok, I will admit this is a horrible system. The thing is you don't even need to gear up to do HM in this game. Progression raiders will start to care about such things only when it will start to hinder their ability to down bosses and it is not the case currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiHeilos Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Run Hard Mode Flashpoints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BountyHuntertwo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm in Rakata/Columi. If I'm running Normal Ops I'm not running it to get gear, I'm running it for guild gearing. Yet I will still get Columi tokens I don't need over people who do need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkenWulf Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm in Rakata/Columi. If I'm running Normal Ops I'm not running it to get gear, I'm running it for guild gearing. Yet I will still get Columi tokens I don't need over people who do need them. This. Kinda I ran my first Ops today with guild, frankly I found the loot mechanics shocking and incredibly frustrating. As far as I'm concerned I want to prio Tanks and healers and then up DPS on loot drops. I can't do that, we had two Sith warrior pieces drop only a Jug and Mara (me) in group and I got both of them, I already HAVE these items, why in the name of all thats unholy do I need more? Those items could have as easily gone to my Juggernaught who would have found them an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakenborg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks to this idiotic system I allready have 6 Columi helmets, 3 Columi legplates and 3 Columi gloves on my Vanguard. We tried to make tickets, none of them worked, our raid leader was told by CS straight - none of the loot will be re-distributed. What pisses me the most is total silence from Bioware, no updates, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inframan Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 /signed It would be so easy to just make it an option for raid leaders to turn off the randomly assigned loot for normal mode, while keeping the current system available for pugs. My brother is having terrible luck getting gear in hard modes, and when the pieces he needs do drop but go to another player who doesn't need them, it's simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) This is definitely a system that needs to be changed for the reasons stated above. It seems unnecessarily difficult to gear up 1 or 2 new guys in a group of geared players with the current system. Allow players some way to decide how their loot will be distributed in normal ops. The current random loot system is very player-unfriendly and needlessly obstructive to guild progression. Random drops are still fine (another issue entirely) but random distribution only hurts the players who need to gear up most. Edited January 30, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobiefatt Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Its the most idiotic system ever designd. Random loot ... seriously Bioware ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrax Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would like to a see the game checking the gear level of people and then assigning the loot, but I'm worried this is alot more work for bioware atm. And what is wrong with making them work for something we are paying for exactly? Do you expect them to just sit on their asses now and collect our money without addressing our concerns? On the subject, yes this system absolutely needs to at least be optional. I've gotten so much loot now that I don't need that I just vendor it at this point since my companions all already have it. On top of that we've had the same people getting columi tokens every week when people that still need that piece get screwed. The system is beyond stupid, whoever came up with it was a moron. How does forcing everyone in the raid to be a ninja looter against their will prevent ninja looting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would make it so if at least 6/8 or 12/16 of the players in the Op are in the same guild, you can turn on ML and distribute it yourself. In a pug it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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