Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
11.27.2017 , 04:15 PM | #211
Just wait bro, I already know a few good sins in 248 gear who started playing Mara, 'cause sins are totally broken right now. From bugged Phantom Stride to nerfed dps that's totally RNG now.

"Deception sins overperformed"

The best BW joke in 2017.

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
11.27.2017 , 04:35 PM | #212
Quote: Originally Posted by DzastinBiberi View Post
Just wait bro, I already know a few good sins in 248 gear who started playing Mara, 'cause sins are totally broken right now. From bugged Phantom Stride to nerfed dps that's totally RNG now.

"Deception sins overperformed"

The best BW joke in 2017.
Yeah, I rolled a sentinel because it seems like they will be the only viable jedi type DPS, but I don't really enjoy playing it, not to mention I don't really know how to use it yet. Heck I rolled a slinger too, hoping to find something, but of course, I don't want to be playing any toon but my shadow, but given how they have/are screwing us, seems foolish to gimp myself and use it.

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
11.27.2017 , 05:46 PM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by DzastinBiberi View Post
Just wait bro, I already know a few good sins in 248 gear who started playing Mara, 'cause sins are totally broken right now. From bugged Phantom Stride to nerfed dps that's totally RNG now.

"Deception sins overperformed"

The best BW joke in 2017.
You should check this out too, just give it some upvotes if you can. It seems every sin player on this forum disagree with these changes, go and express yourself about those everywhere, be loud and proud, maybe we'll be heard like Carnage Mara players.
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
11.27.2017 , 09:13 PM | #214
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
You should check this out too, just give it some upvotes if you can. It seems every sin player on this forum disagree with these changes, go and express yourself about those everywhere, be loud and proud, maybe we'll be heard like Carnage Mara players.
You are mistaken if you think that Carnage Marauders got a good deal. What they are getting done to them is terrible. What they have done here is say originally "We you have to eat two s**t sandwhiches", than later on come back and say "We've decieded you only need to eat one s**t sandwhich". We are still losing unjustly, just not quite as bad.

The change was based on clipping, which they said was not intended after 3+ years and three different metas [obviously, they knew all along about it and were fine with it til now]. Mind you clipping is not a utility and is not effected by any utility, and if you look at the utility changes for all the specs you will find that carnage is the only spec on the list that has no utility mentioned as its not based on a utility. This is nothing short of a second DPS nerf. Carnage is the only spec in the game that is recieving two DPS nerfs from the "class balance" patches.

Clipping only ever provided one extra attack on the beserk ferocity window. The non-beserk ferocity window did not need any clipping to get three attacks. Think of it this way, three second window, three instant attacks. Doesn't take a mathmatician to figure that out. Now this was all explained to the devs and that is why they gave one attack back on the beserk window. This was not a favor, this was not "big of them" this was "opps we messed up", and even though they know full well that clipping was not needed to get three atttacks into the non-beserk ferocity window, they are still taking it away from us unjustly.If you simply remove the ability to clip that leaves three attacks on each ferocity window. Yet we are getting 3/2. We are losing two attacks from our ferocity windows. Thats a huge DPS loss.

Lastly, this stack based ferocity window, is nothing short of an identity change for the spec. Carnage was always a high risk high reward spec. The fact that ferocity windows could be interupted and that burst potentially lost, sure that was annoying at times, but it served as a sort of inherent checks and balance sort of the thing for it's burst.

I've played the spec since day one, this is not a good thing that is happening, its a terrible thing and the entire playstyle is being lost. It isnt even about the DPS loss as much and the play style. We literally have to relearn how to play our spec after all these years. Carnage will no longer be fast based spec, it doesnt need it anymore. Alacrity is now totally useless for the spec and it's still getting stuck with a stance bonus to alacrity and a beserk ability bonus of alacrity, neither which it will need at all.

So heres what happens now, you get rid of all those alacrity augs and replace them with the new and improved power augs coming and you dump all [or most] your alacrity enhancements and replace them with crit enhancements, which will than lead to HUGE burst numbers, you will be seeing 30k+ burst attacks with a fair amount of regularity back to back. If you get hit with a beserk ferocity window with bloodthirst in effect, you are going to be taking upwards of 90K damage in three seconds that cannot be stopped, shutdown or interupted, followed by another 50-60k more 5 seconds later that also cannot be stopped, shut down or interupted. There will be no more lost windows, now in the short term thats good, but overall its a big dps loss. This will be worse for PVE than for pvp but it will still be a dps loss overall for pvp as well, its just that the kill potential in the short term is going to skyrocket. People are going to screaming and moaning about eating 90K and 50k in ten seconds and scream for nerfing again.

Carnage is the most nerfed spec of 5.x.

Everyone loses here. If you think by siting Carnage you are helping your cause, your not, because this is going to set a precedent that even when it is the fault of the devs who made changes based on lack of understanding of how the specs operate they will not fix it even when its pointed out to them and acknowledged.

They don't care about fair. Their mistakes we pay for. How it is possible that a dev who's job it is to "balance the classes" doesn't even understand how the specs work defies logic.

Carnage is going to cease to exist as it has been all these years. Its a terrible thing to arbitraily lose the operation of a spec you have come to know for years and have it changed completely. This could have been handled very simply and they would have met their design goals. The change is about clipping, you take clipping away and you leave the spec as is, youve met your design target and the players keep the play style they love and have been playing for years. They choose to completely rip the carpet out from under us.

Carnage users are not happy, this is a terrible thing to most of them.

I'm going to give it a try, but, I'm pretty confident this is a deal breaker for me, and having spoken and seen the comments of many other carnage users, I'm not alone in that.

I hope you get your change reversed. I really do. It's a terrible thing they are doing to Assassins with their change.
But citing carnage is not the way you want to go, carnage is the precedent for unrighteous class change based on lack of knowledge of how specs operate. They didn't "give" us anything by including a third attack on beserk, we already had that, and they are still withholding an attack from us that we shouldn't be losing at all because you didn't need to clip to get a third attack.

They take away whatever they want, do not look for reason, do not look for evidence because even when supplied and acknowledged they still don't care.

It would be foolish to think that carnage is the only spec that they don't understand how it actually works, and that they wouldn't reverse changes that were erroneously made in other specs.

I hope you get a reversal, but I don't think you will, because they do not care about fair, reality, or how changes can ruin specs.

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
11.28.2017 , 05:39 AM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
*snip*
Hey you're back
Just to clarify,I agree with you here, it isn't what you can call a good deal. It makes carnage worse in PvE but better in PvP (basically increase the margin of error). I perfectly see where the flaws are, but I also see that they're able to see when they're doing sh*t at a too big level (2stack only was ridiculous, I don't play the spec but even I know about alacrity). What I meant to say was that carnage marauders received a slight correction of this nerf, I think it we can still hope to have a little adjustment too, Both type of players have been clear enough for those changes I think, they are just stupid, especially since it took one year to make them.
Anyway, I see your point, don't worry, I've seen a carnage main in my guild almost leave the game because of that :')
Cya after the nerf-joke guys
Eliadil - Darkness Assassin Darth Malgus

Feel free to use my referal link if you liked my help ! Free stuff for you and me !

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
12.04.2017 , 09:31 AM | #216
Just in case BW actually checks their own threads regarding changes. After some time with these 5.6 changes being live, yeah, they suck just as bad as we told you they would. Infiltration survivability is nonexistent given chain stuns and gimped damage. Please acknowledge your mistakes and fix things.

FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
12.04.2017 , 11:26 AM | #217
Agreed, Infiltration is absolutely terrible in PvP now, I don't even want to go into PvP anymore on my shadow. I'd rather take my Jugg or Sent, two classes I barely know how to play, than my shadow which I've played for years into PvP now. The chain stuns and gimp damage destroy the class and any role it used to have in PvP. Can't stealth cap nodes worth a crap, can't defend nodes worth a crap, can't burst down healers, etc. etc.
A.K.A. Magister Militum Flavius Aetius
Eudoxia Eudoxya
<Aeterna Vigilantia>
Jedi Covenant

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
12.04.2017 , 12:28 PM | #218
It took me 2 seconds to figure out this was bad just reading the patch notes. I told you so.

This whole thing might not be half as bad if we had Phase Walk back though. In earlier builds of the game we didnt have any stun DR either, but with Phase Walk present we could still prevent ourselves getting globalled too often.

If I'd be given a choice right now to have stun dr or pw that'd be a seriously hard choice.
I'd probably go for the pw because I like active abilities way better than passives. And for the versatility it offers.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
Shadow/Sin Discord Server

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
12.04.2017 , 06:49 PM | #219
Right now we [as in players] are facing some other factors that are clearly making things more complicated as not only are melee specs [Carnage, Deception, PTs] dealing with the effects of their respective nerfs we also have bugged set bonus' issues on some specs that are noticable. Known ones are so far -

All sorc specs are gaining a healing boost that has [ I don't recall the exact name the ability, I think its something with mend in it heh] but it's not only healer the sorc themselves it's also healing multiple people as well when it's not suppose to, so their is a notable rise in heals right now and it applies only to sorcs, so other healers are also feeling it because they are somewhat behind the ball with sorc heals again.

We also have Arsenal which is bugged and its doing a lot more damage than it's suppose to and if I understood it correctly its making their energy management much easier and their is speculation that it's also causing a higher crit rate on some attacks. Obviously this is resulting in DPS increases that exceed what BW has effected in the "class balancing".

Sniper is also believed to be one of the specs this set bonus bug is effecting, although to be fair, this hasn't been confirmed. BW came right and said there is something bugged for certain specs that is effecting both heals and DPS upwardly. They are not giving a full listing of those specs that are effected but in the case of Sorc heals and Arsenal the evidence of these bugs is pretty convincing. [Arsenal bug was brought to attention by someone I know from the Shadowlands who is extremely well versed in the math and spec preformance so I give his observations credence, as he knows his stuff].

So yeah, these nerfs they suck, but we're also dealing with new imbalances now and obviously that effects everyone so bare that in mind.

That's all we needed, more heal imbalances, and another thing to make mercs OP as Fk. heh. Given funny God can be at times, I have no doubt Snipers are getting a similar boost heh.

So now we have other causes of class imbalances in addition to the Combat teams incompetence .
Ain't pvp in the 5.x era grand? =p

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
12.04.2017 , 08:46 PM | #220
Nobody is willing to take responsibility for needing to change their playstyle to adjust for the changes.