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Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
06.21.2017 , 05:43 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Galactic command was never of the issue. Most players got the idea behind it and it made sense.

What was disagreed with is the how it was implemented, especially the RNG and the grind topped by the unfriendliness for playing alts. Rest assured Ben and Jame were aware of it.
That and their slow progress since 5.0 release to sand off the warts and scars.

It is pretty clear the studio wanted to go the general route they did with 5.0 (setting aside everyones pet rants about particular specifics). But Erics role was certainly not some "God Mode" to control the release plan.

It is also now clear from Eric that he had a seat at the table and was representing the sentiment of the broader player base (not the corner case players, but the broader player base). Eric has great personality traits for doing the Community Manager role in my view... but I do not think those same traits serve as well in the role of "forceful" advocacy for players.. and it is this "forceful" style that some here seem to want/need/demand. I just can't see Eric going junk-yard-dog for the players in a design meeting, which in no way implies that he did not advocate.

What they failed to do in my view was to A) delay the release to address real issues that would not play well with many players B) very slow to implement important improvements, based on feedback, to mitigate the shock and disappointment from players.. even before 5.0 went live. C) clearly communicate the known shortfalls at release they harvested from player feedback and keeping us informed on plans to address and correct quickly. Instead they stonewalled on it for months.

I've been through similar issues when I was business owner for Customer facing web properties. Sometimes we were fully committed to an implementation (based on feedback from the customer base) and once we entered testing..... real issues were discovered that needed to be addressed. At which point it generally boils down to delay the release and fix the issues, and/or release and put an expedite plan in place to fix the shortfalls. I can tell you that it was almost always the latter NOT the former.
A Good Read ---> Truth Decay - An Initial Exploration of the Diminishing Role of Facts and Analysis in American Public Life. Source: Rand Corporation https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2314.html

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
06.21.2017 , 06:09 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
Hey everyone!

Thanks for all the great feedback and thoughts in this thread! I believe Keith is working on his post to put up later this evening, after which I'll see how much thunder he's stolen before I make my own

If he and Eric have got the "how" of feedback pretty well covered, I may just dive into some of the more specific questions I'm seeing here in the thread. Sound good?
You know, I and clearly many others, genuinely appreciate this manner of communication.

However.. after all this, how is it possible that with so many people crying out loud to what's supposed to be coming on class balance related things, you guys will just not change a damn thing about the plan for class changes?

Sometimes the only way to do something right is to postpone it, and I'm sorry.. but you guys are not going to make the right sort of class balance changes if they are due to be next month. There is just by far and away not enough time to make the proper adjustments.

You guys are trying, and we can see that. But trying isn't enough. Things need to happen.
The playerbase doesn't want another 3-6 months of PvP Mercenary overpopulation.
The playerbase doesn't want half assed class changes.

Why? Because there is only one way you can do balance right. And that is by taking everything into account.
Both DPS/HPS/DTPS as well as the cooldowns and abilities that they are intertwined with.

  • As an Assassin I get to ignore certain game mechanics with Shroud, increasing my dps.
  • As a Sorcerer I can enjoy complete and absolute immunity as well as a Teleport, allowing me to ignore game mechanics as well as being more aggresive around the battlefield as long as a I have those tools available. Increasing my ability to heal my allies under extreme pressure.
  • As a Marauder I can speed up the entire group so they can connect easier with their targets, increasing DPS/Raid Survival
  • As a Juggernaut I get to instantly jump to both allies and foes on a very short cooldown.
    Increasing mobility and ability to connect with targets. Increasing DPS.
  • As an Operative I can get out of extremely nasty situations very often and very quickly, allowing me to be much more aggresive than most classes. Increasing DPS.
  • As a Sniper I can sit down and eat all the CC in the game without being affected for an extended period of time. Allowing me to completely ignore everything and everyone around me and focus purely on whatever the H I want to do. Increasing DPS since I'm not CC'd where others would be.
  • As a Mercenary I can heal myself for obscene amounts, allowing me to stay in the fight at full force where other classes would be forced to reset or get bailed out by multiple team cooldowns.
    Not only increasing my own DPS. But completely negating all previous efforts of the enemy team directed at me.
  • As a Powertech I can ignore knockback and movement impairing effects for an extended period of time. Increasing mobility and ability to connect with foes. Increasing DPS.

And this is far from all of it. Every class has multiple of these tools.
But they don't all have the same effect, or the same strength and impact.
But you just can't deny that there is more to DPS/HPS/DTPS than just stand-still target dummy numbers.


My point is that if you nerf a certain class Offensive capacity, that also has a direct effect on their survivability.
If you buff a certain class Defensive capacity, that also has a direct effect on their ability to put out damage.
Not on a dummy.. but against bosses and other players it does.

Just.. if you're going to do something, please take your time and do it right the first time so it doesn't turn into a mess again? Please? Sorry for hijacking this thread, I got rolling and couldn't stop.
Evolixe | Exilove
Disciples of Babylon - Darth Malgus
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OneHit's Avatar


OneHit
06.21.2017 , 06:17 PM | #73
I don't blame Eric either. But this does shed light on how very little we matter when it comes the direction of the game.

-why-

The last 3 years. Starting with the introduction of story chapters and finished off by RNG. I can remember these forums, Reddit, facebook, Twitter, dulfy, and many more filled with post after post of dissapointmet and anger. Like all of them. Every once and a while there would be a story matters post. Untill after the first season of story chapters. Then that support kinda dispersed too once they figured out the story only made sense for sorcs. (I still have my force imbued blaster pistol. Can't wait to use it!) Yet all this continued. Then RNG was announced along with no new endgame. And that's when my friends left the game. Also like all of them. I've made new friends since then. They too have moved on. After all that we still continue on this dismal course.

-why-

Why do we have such a little seat at the table? The answer is we are the vocal minority. Well I assure BIOWARE that I am a subscriber. Just not one of the Vocal Minority type. I don't subscribe to that. It must be nice to always have that silent majority in your back pocket. When all else fails just pull that card out. When everything you're reading and hearing tells you you're on the wrong track just say these magic little words "silent majority." They're out there. You can't see them or hear them. Ever. But they love the lack of ops/pvp/gsf and people to play them with. Like Bigfoot.

VarKoE's Avatar


VarKoE
06.21.2017 , 07:20 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
You guys are trying, and we can see that. But trying isn't enough. Things need to happen.
The playerbase doesn't want another 3-6 months of PvP Mercenary overpopulation.
The playerbase doesn't want half assed class changes.

Why? Because there is only one way you can do balance right. And that is by taking everything into account.
Both DPS/HPS/DTPS as well as the cooldowns and abilities that they are intertwined with.

Just.. if you're going to do something, please take your time and do it right the first time so it doesn't turn into a mess again? Please? Sorry for hijacking this thread, I got rolling and couldn't stop.
Not sure your background, so don't take this badly, but incremental change is always a better solution dealing with complex systems. So really I agree with both of you. take their time and follow a process. we will all be more thankful in the long run.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
06.21.2017 , 07:25 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by sam-marc View Post
I'm sad you see it that way. If we're talking on a much wider range of story then, Sith Warrior and Inquisitor are my favourite and I always recomend them to new players who prefer dark side choices (With meaning).

Try not to take things the wrong way, it was in fact me who moved for change with Galactic Command, Cartel Packs and much more. I've been playing this game for a long time and I know what i'm talking about especially from a community stand point. That being said, what is important is that you folks, the player base express your concerns not just to the devs but to us as well wherever you feel it appropriate. Why? Because we can shine a light on it, expose it, gather thoughts and send that feedback right back to the devs. So, don't worry you're in good hands. I care deeply for this game and it's community. Also, just because I like KoTFE and KoTET that shouldn't make you resent my status It just means I enjoyed those particular *Story* lines. As for writing with the KOTOR games, I gotta agree, but KOTOR 1 is still king

Please, feel free to chat with any of us at any time. All the best!
I certainly don't think the game is in good hands with you. I don't mean to personally attack you but the statement that KoTFE and KoTET are good. They aren't.
I won't waste your time explaining why as some others did lengthy posts on the subject.

Sorry to be blunt but this game needs it now. We are past politically correct dialog.
Look at the market, look at what EA is doing with their other SW games, look at the thin budget invested back in SWTOR and you''ll realize how deep in the hole is this game right now. Keith is working in a damage control mode with a budget barely enough to maintain the game.

Speaking of longevity your forum name does not rings any bell from Beta even less before it.
Your SWTOR account number reads #4,556,867 whereas mine is #126. Guess I also pretty well know the community. Top of that I've been aware of SWTOR development before it was even announced and have quite some knowledge of behind the scene decisions and issues.

Finally I do have my name on a couple of video games so I pretty well much know how games are designed, coded, even marketed and sold.
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Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
06.21.2017 , 07:32 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by lemonsquare View Post
By the way, and this is for eveyone: your Influencers are there to speak for you, the community. Reach out to us, let us know what your concerns are and how you want to see the game developed.
Hi Keith,

you guys put quite some emphasis on the influencers. Guess as many other and certainly less vocal players, I would really be interested in having the full list of influencers so we can truly get how we are represented.

Thanks.
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casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
06.21.2017 , 08:01 PM | #77
Quote:
Deewe;9338904]I certainly don't think the game is in good hands with you. I don't mean to personally attack you but the statement that KoTFE and KoTET are good. They aren't.
I won't waste your time explaining why as some others did lengthy posts on the subject.
I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

As far as the community no one can claim they know the community 100%. I know my influence is limited to those I actually play with and interact with. I don't play with everyone, no one does. Everyone has some sort of influence and making a production out of who has more influence is not going to help. It only alienates people and that is something no one wants as everyone has a different way of playing and each person has that right to play the way she wants.
A girl should be two things: classy and fabulous. A girl should also always be a lady even when arguing Referral: http://www.swtor.com/r/VkfKqj

OneHit's Avatar


OneHit
06.21.2017 , 08:04 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

Meh. The chapters sucked. Some people liked it. Some people didn't. There a far less players since they implemented it. If it was good then where are all the people who enjoyed it?

casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
06.21.2017 , 08:06 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by OneHit View Post
Meh. The chapters sucked. Some people liked it. Some people didn't. There a far less players since they implemented it. If it was good then where are all the people who enjoyed it?
Well considering my guild is still here how about them for starters and of course to you they don't count. To me they do as they are the ones I listen and play with.
A girl should be two things: classy and fabulous. A girl should also always be a lady even when arguing Referral: http://www.swtor.com/r/VkfKqj

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.21.2017 , 08:11 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
Hey everyone!

Thanks for all the great feedback and thoughts in this thread! I believe Keith is working on his post to put up later this evening, after which I'll see how much thunder he's stolen before I make my own

If he and Eric have got the "how" of feedback pretty well covered, I may just dive into some of the more specific questions I'm seeing here in the thread. Sound good?
Sounds good, but you being the story guy, I'd be curious how you are taking the negative feedback on the KOTFE and KOTET/Ikorath storylines, and the desire to get the game back to the war between the Sith and the Republic, as well as return the game to a more "Star Wars" feel?