The_Grand_Nagus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) The objective is just on the horizon. We're a ragtag group of journalists -- no, starfighter pilots -- and we're hellbent on taking a key objective from the enemy. The problem isn't the defending turrets; it's the five red squares that have just popped on our HUDs: Sith fighters. In a few moments, we'll lose each other in a storm of blaster fire and exploding ships. The ship to my right engages the turbo on his engines, rocketing forward. One by one, we all follow into the fray. This is Galactic Starfighter, the new expansion coming to Bioware's Star Wars: The Old Republic. The new ships, their customization options, and the chaotic, free-flight-PvP space combat make it one of the largest feature upgrades since the game's launch. It won't put you in the Death Star's trenches, but it will get you close. Join me in the cockpit as I tell you about my experience in rail-less throes of space mayhem. Full article here: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/11/14/hands-on-with-swtors-galactic-starfighter/ ***Edit*** And here is an article from MMORPG.com: Since EA and BioWare Austin launched Star Wars: The Old Republic, it has gone through a lot of changes. Moving to a F2P model along with getting consistent, scheduled updates has made it a game with strong community and brought in new players. Now though, they’re ready to make what is probably the most dramatic update to gameplay the game has ever seen. And it’s coming in the form of full-on, free-flight space battles. Full article here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/7951/Taking-to-the-Sky-in-Galactic-Starfighter.html/page/1 Edited November 15, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I think I'll actually download test server for this. Are you Gavin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 I think I'll actually download test server for this. Are you Gavin? No, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 No, are you? Maybe, depends on what his wife looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingmar Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 After getting a chance to play this last night at the Cantina Tour, I can say it is absolutely worth a look. It's a really impressive technical feat getting the engine to do a space shooter as good as this seems to have turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The buzz internet wide seems relatively positive, though I keep hearing about the lack of gamepad support over and over. I am worried that this will be a mistake on Bioware's part...this should have had native gamepad support at launch. Other than that it looks like the appeal will be rather widespread...and another notable point, it looks like hardcore PVP players hate it....good sign for PVE casual players. I do not think this will appeal generally to the hardcore MMO PVP crowd, and I think that bodes well for the feature and the game. But like I said...lack of gamepad/joystick support I believe is a huge blunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The buzz internet wide seems relatively positive, though I keep hearing about the lack of gamepad support over and over. I am worried that this will be a mistake on Bioware's part...this should have had native gamepad support at launch. Other than that it looks like the appeal will be rather widespread...and another notable point, it looks like hardcore PVP players hate it....good sign for PVE casual players. I do not think this will appeal generally to the hardcore MMO PVP crowd, and I think that bodes well for the feature and the game. But like I said...lack of gamepad/joystick support I believe is a huge blunder. Blunder is debatable. From the sounds of it, it was built around keyboard and mouse control. The fighters were meant to be controlled in that manner. I am assuming (and note ASSUMING) that the control scheme does not translate well to gamepad or joystick. They would probably have to write an entirely new input scheme to support gamepads and flightsticks and that probably didn't make sense in the technical and gameplay departments. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Other than that it looks like the appeal will be rather widespread...and another notable point, it looks like hardcore PVP players hate it....good sign for PVE casual players. I Eh, its a twitch game and basically akin to a shooter. I don't know how well it'll appeal to casuals. The game is great once you've figured things out(the tutorial mode wasn't complete as of the latest build) but its actually fairly complex. Clickers will probably be somewhat frustrated, as there are quite a few critical hotkeys that players need to match up. If there is no skill-based matchmaking, some people may end up walking away angry and frustrated(we had a couple on the test forums). Be prepared to walk away from your first few matches with negligible kills and one or two people sitting in the teens or twenties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Eh, its a twitch game and basically akin to a shooter. I don't know how well it'll appeal to casuals. The game is great once you've figured things out(the tutorial mode wasn't complete as of the latest build) but its actually fairly complex. Clickers will probably be somewhat frustrated, as there are quite a few critical hotkeys that players need to match up. If there is no skill-based matchmaking, some people may end up walking away angry and frustrated(we had a couple on the test forums). Be prepared to walk away from your first few matches with negligible kills and one or two people sitting in the teens or twenties. Which is exactly why a joystick option would be needed. It is a natural match with a 3d twitch shooter. Much easier for folks to control and enjoy playing. I am just putting forth my opinion here, but most keyboard and mouse only 3d twitch shooters, to my knowledge have bombed. Joystick control is a must if you want the feature to have appeal beyond a small group of fanatics. Just my slant...I think this will prove to have been a mistake they will likely regret. We will see this weekend. Edited November 14, 2013 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Maybe, depends on what his wife looks like. What if he isnt married? Or what if he is...but doesnt have a wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 What if he isnt married? Or what if he is...but doesnt have a wife? It was always my dream to enter marital congress with a gaming journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Which is exactly why a joystick option would be needed. It is a natural match with a 3d twitch shooter. Much easier for folks to control and enjoy playing. I am just putting forth my opinion here, but most keyboard and mouse only 3d twitch shooters, to my knowledge have bombed. Joystick control is a must if you want the feature to have appeal beyond a small group of fanatics. Just my slant...I think this will prove to have been a mistake they will likely regret. We will see this weekend. The way GS currently works when aiming and turning is that there is an internal ring for aiming, and an external ring that when you move beyond it causes the ship to turn(you cannot fire outside of the internal ring). Different weapons have different internal rings. Part of turning and maneuvering involves the use of WASD and hotkeys for abilities. With the speed at which everything is moving around, I'd think you'd end up constantly ramming your joystick in opposite directions and be unable to effectively aim while maneuvering, which to me would seem frustrating. Now I'm no joystick expert, so its easily possible my understanding of their ease of use in such a situation is wrong, so I'm going to go ahead and quote someone who appeared knowledgeable about the subject in the thread on the test forums, as they have probably brought up much better points than I have. The problem is not that a Joystick is a worse controller for flying. It's not, it's an awesome controller. The problem is that GS, like MWO, is designed using the mouse cursor as a crosshairs, and this means that mouse users can achieved significantly better targeting precision than you can with a joystick or a controller. That's the very reason mouselook is THE preferred control scheme for shooters, after all. Now, I imagine it's possible some people might actually do better with a joystick/controller, but these people are in a tiny minority. As a simulator enthousiast myself, I have no problme saying that I'm a lot more precise with my mouse in MWO that I ever was with a joystick (and believe me, I tried). In fact, people can always tell when a player is using a joystick when spectating in MWO: the loss in accuracy and precision is glaringly visible. So long as the game uses the mouse cursor as the crosshairs, instead of a fixed one in the center of the screen like in X-Wing, you'll find that the mouse users will have an inherent advantage in accuracy. Beyond that, to me it's clear the game itself was designed with mouse targeting in mind. Comparing the maneuverability and speed of movement in GS with how it was in X-Wing shows a significant difference. The leading reticule is so fast that using a mouse's speed and precision is practically required IMO. Again, though, I'm not saying I hate the idea of joystick support. I'd love it, absolutely love it. But to make it practical would require significant changes with GS as it stands, and to ask it be given a high priority is not taking the current design into account. And with the current game design and its focus on using the mouse cursor as crosshairs, to state that Joysticks or controllers would offer greater control or precision is just plain incorrect. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Maybe, depends on what his wife looks like. That's dirrrrrrrty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The way GS currently works when aiming and turning is that there is an internal ring for aiming, and an external ring that when you move beyond it causes the ship to turn(you cannot fire outside of the internal ring). Different weapons have different internal rings. Part of turning and maneuvering involves the use of WASD and hotkeys for abilities. With the speed at which everything is moving around, I'd think you'd end up constantly ramming your joystick in opposite directions and be unable to effectively aim while maneuvering, which to me would seem frustrating. Now I'm no joystick expert, so its easily possible my understanding of their ease of use in such a situation is wrong, so I'm going to go ahead and quote someone who appeared knowledgeable about the subject in the thread on the test forums, as they have probably brought up much better points than I have. I would cite for example piloted remote military drones which still use flight sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) No joystick OR game pad? I think its a horrible idea to not have joystick support but I could live with it if there was gamepad support. Ive probably played every free flight online game and a lot of the offline games out there and ive yet to see one that benefits from a keyboard/mouse over stick or gamepad. And I suspect the reason they don't have stick or pad support is for "Fairness" , Wish they would take a look at all the other flight games that have fell flat on their faces because they were only controllable with keyboard and mice. Edited November 14, 2013 by Mallorik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I would cite for example piloted remote military drones which still use flight sticks. If the drone turned while you were trying to turn the turrets, that would seem like incredibly bad design. Its not an issue with joysticks, its an issue of the game being designed with a mouse in mind. I've got no objection to them adding it anyways, it just appears to me that the game is designed in such a way that you'd be at a disadvantage with a joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilirubin Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 As an original Quake player this sounds like it is gonna own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpactHound Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 If the drone turned while you were trying to turn the turrets, that would seem like incredibly bad design. Its not an issue with joysticks, its an issue of the game being designed with a mouse in mind. I've got no objection to them adding it anyways, it just appears to me that the game is designed in such a way that you'd be at a disadvantage with a joystick. They have seperate controls for steering the craft and aiming a targeting reticle(camera/weapon or both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingmar Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 No joystick OR game pad? I think its a horrible idea to not have joystick support but I could live with it if there was gamepad support. Ive probably played every free flight online game and a lot of the offline games out there and ive yet to see one that benefits from a keyboard/mouse over stick or gamepad. And I suspect the reason they don't have stick or pad support is for "Fairness" , Wish they would take a look at all the other flight games that have fell flat on their faces because they were only controllable with keyboard and mice. Having played it, the control scheme is such that it seems to me a joystick would work... poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Ah. With mouse aiming it is very difficult to use a gamepad. That is a mistake in design IMO. We will see if folks like it. I certainly hope they do...if mouse aiming turns out to be more enjoyable and easy to pick up instead of a fixed reticule than so be it...and that would be great. But I suspect that is not the case, and if they did design it with a mouse aim and folks find that too complicated it will turn out to a be a huge design flaw IMO. I hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antediluvian Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I know this would never happen but from the sounds of it, a certain "recently revealed controller using touchpads" would work quite well here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Ah. With mouse aiming it is very difficult to use a gamepad. That is a mistake in design IMO. We will see if folks like it. I certainly hope they do...if mouse aiming turns out to be more enjoyable and easy to pick up instead of a fixed reticule than so be it...and that would be great. But I suspect that is not the case, and if they did design it with a mouse aim and folks find that too complicated it will turn out to a be a huge design flaw IMO. I hope I am wrong. Yes, you do sound very concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) The buzz internet wide seems relatively positive, though I keep hearing about the lack of gamepad support over and over. I am worried that this will be a mistake on Bioware's part...this should have had native gamepad support at launch. Other than that it looks like the appeal will be rather widespread...and another notable point, it looks like hardcore PVP players hate it....good sign for PVE casual players. I do not think this will appeal generally to the hardcore MMO PVP crowd, and I think that bodes well for the feature and the game. But like I said...lack of gamepad/joystick support I believe is a huge blunder.It's possible (though I won't hold me breath jes yet mate) that gamepad support may already be there. Speaking from my experiments and (mis)dealings with Logitech during GS beta over their joystick limitations, their gamepads' ministicks can be mapped to mouse axis whereas their joysticks can't. If the reticle being tied to mouse axis flight control is replicated by simply mapping mouselook to a ministick then I don't see why it wouldn't work. Gonna try it out on the PTS. [EDIT] For button count purposes, here's what has to be mapped (outside of the mouse axis' base steering / reticle aiming functions) and their default binds: Combat Left Mouse Button: Primary weapon Right Mouse Button: Target lock + Secondary weapon Right-then-Left Mouse Button Combo: Railgun Movement A: Roll left <Shift>+A: Strafe left D: Roll right <Shift>+D: Strafe right <Shift>+W: Strafe up <Shift>+S: Strafe down Z: Hold mouse <Shift>+Z: Toggle mouse mode Targeting <Tab> Target closest enemy R: Target the enemy firing at you E: Target the enemy in your sights Throttle <Space Bar>: Booster W: Accelerate S: Decelerate X: Toggle (all stop) Ability Bar 1: System ability 2: Shield ability 3: Engine ability 4: Copilot (companion) ability Power Management F1: Shields F2: Blasters F3: Engine F4: Balanced Camera Positions F: Free look camera C: Target camera That's a lot of stuff. Thx to KurganNazzir for the assist. Edited November 14, 2013 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadOrb Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Well from the 2-3 hours of video footage I have seen then I think using xpadder and my 360 gamepad should be possible. Only problem I might encounter is I would have to re-design my setup from the ground game to GS , but I can handle that at least there is a training mission for me to scream at , while learning , re-calibrating the keybinds and xpadder. I am hopeful. Cheers, BadOrb. Edited November 14, 2013 by BadOrb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Well from the 2-3 hours of video footage I have seen then I think using xpadder and my 360 gamepad should be possible. Only problem I might encounter is I would have to re-design my setup from the ground game to GS , but I can handle that at least there is a training mission for me to scream at , while learning , re-calibrating the keybinds and xpadder. I am hopeful. Cheers, BadOrb. Actually, I'm thinking it will work as well. In fact, it will work much better than a joystick. We will see on Saturday. As you know there are a few peeps that are using the 360 controller to play this game as it stands right now. With essentially 2 joysticks, aiming and direction would be non issues. I don't see no joystick support being a big deal at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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