Honestly if you can't deal with a 69+ dps pulling then you aren't much of a healer. I've done many a FP where the only 'healing' such a person needed was to be bubbled.

 

And I pull trash with quakes and such on my sage healer, and it's never gotten me or anyone else killed.

 

If you're having trouble with these scenarios, there's either a L2P issue involved, or you aren't talking about the overgeared situations we are. When people aren't overgeared it's obviously a very stupid thing to do.

 

Really if even a single person is in 69+'s, the FP is going to be really easy, barring some astonishing incompetence.

Edited July 10, 2013 by msfyoung

i didn't say I couldn't deal with it. I said it wasn't fun OR easy. since you all are claiming that dps tanking makes it more fun and easy.

 

no. it doesn't.

 

also - ideal scenario of everyone overgeared and knowing how to maximize their output, so things actually die quickly enough not to turn situation worse than it already is- those rarely happen. usually its one maverick who thinks they are god's gift to video games and just by a sole virtue of having a few more hit points then the tank - are qualified to take over that role, and decide for everyone else how the flashpoint should be run.

 

no. just no.

 

plus a good dps knows how to use their aggro drop and the only tank they would pull of is a terrible one, not just lesser geared one. in which case, that flashpoint has more problems than just dps with god complex.

I don't care how many hp someone has, only a tank is supposed to tank. He has the tools for it and it is his role to do so. It's unfair to deprive a willing tank of his role.

If the tank sucks or dies all the time because he has just too low hp, then you dps may tank.

Besides, often when dps jump in first the healer ends up getting most of the aggro.

For me its very simple ... if your a tank you tank. If your a DPS you DPS, YOU DO NOT TANK. No matter how much HP you have. If you refuse to change your views on this, I will have no problem initiating a vote kick to get you out. Not my problem that you have to set in queue again because you don't want to change. This of course if the majority of the group decides this, but usually I got guildies with me even if we pug.

I guess some people here are not completely understand the whole point of my thread.

I DIDN'T said that such problems was ONLY at the high-end content.

Problems starting more early.

 

Dear Aerro, i doubt, that you queue for Cademimu or Mandalorian Raiders or another fp before 50 lvl with 72 mods, becouse its simply impossible. Unless you queue for HM. So you possibly didn see, what i'v seen.

 

But im talking about the WHOLE problem. Not about specific flashpionts.

People lose ability to work in team.

And THAT is real problem. And it grows larger and larger (especially it can be noticed during XP weekends).

as a healer? I don't give a damn how much higher your health is then tank's. you have crap for mitigation and are a nightmare to heal, WHILE trying to also keep up tank who is still attempting to tank something anything, seeing as being dps you generate just enough threat to turn my life into a living hell. if I'm lucky, tank manages to grab everything that ran away from you, trying to kill me, so at least i don't have to try to keep myself up in addition to your squishy butt as well as the tank. I'm not always that lucky.

 

QFT

 

High endurance doesn't mean you can tank as a dps. Hell, usually a 40k+ health tank is harder to heal then a 35k one, ‘cause almost always he just sacrificed mitigation for endurance, which is stupid.

 

And don't come with that high horse talking that in 69+ gear a dps won't require much healing when he's tanking. That's only your perception, and one which is totally wrong at that. You're not tanking, you're just going in, take an initial big spike of damage, then all mobs and even their mother – with the exception of the one you're pummeling on – will turn their attention to the healer, or other members of the group if they could manage to hit them. You can really stress out a low geared healer this way, when damage is all over the place. Not talking about the tank, who just doesn’t know now where to start to gather back agro an all those mobs.

 

Btw, the overlevelling part is true. If everyone is almost in Black Market, then the current HM55FPs are a faceroll – which doesn’t mean they should be tweaked harder, rather the overgeared players need to go to OPSes –, and I even prefer some frak ups (trigger happy dps, tunnel visioned tank…). At least that way there are a tiny bit of excitement and challenge.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Atyaman
mistake

If I didn't have to use group finder I wouldn't, but I do because of the 10 daily comm reward. My solution to slow tanks/heals (like the op) is to get a guildy who also wants basic comms to que with me. If the pulls are too slow or people don't spacebar we vote kick them then blow through the FP in under 15 minutes.

 

Let me be clear, the ONLY reason we are there is for the comms to buy isotope 5s. We do not care about the carebeares who want to watch the story in HM or want to take their time and practice their class.

 

If you cannot learn your role while leveling through content 1-55, then you do not deserve to run a HM.

 

Do yourself a favor and learn to appreciate the people who do this. We are getting you through the FP in minimal time and passing on all loot.

 

Oh, and before you say "well your going to wipe if you don't have a healer or tank" think again - our companions are much better geared and most likely skilled than you will likely ever be.

im running in full 72s, if dps starts to tank i let just to see them get squashed like a bug,

 

after the run i put the guy/girl in the ignore list just to **** up there gf times even more:rolleyes:

 

you can also just leave the group, you will have a new group in no time were mmost dps have a long que ( look around in the forums were rare )

Edited July 10, 2013 by NrDLeipe

QFT

And don't come with that high horse talking that in 69+ gear a dps won't require much healing when he's tanking. That's only your perception, and one which is totally wrong at that. You're not tanking, you're just going in, take an initial big spike of damage, then all mobs and even their mother – with the exception of the one you're pummeling on – will turn their attention to the healer, or other members of the group if they could manage to hit them. You can really stress out a low geared healer this way, when damage is all over the place. Not talking about the tank, who just doesn’t know now where to start to gather back agro an all those mobs.

.

 

getting aggro on all those mobs issnt that hard, i just refuse to get them off the dps i only protect the healer to moment dps dies then i take action gather them finish them off and laugh my *** of cause dps staarts to go ape. if they didnt learn there not to pull its hence and repeat till they eventually learn it.

If I didn't have to use group finder I wouldn't, but I do because of the 10 daily comm reward. My solution to slow tanks/heals (like the op) is to get a guildy who also wants basic comms to que with me. If the pulls are too slow or people don't spacebar we vote kick them then blow through the FP in under 15 minutes.

 

Let me be clear, the ONLY reason we are there is for the comms to buy isotope 5s. We do not care about the carebeares who want to watch the story in HM or want to take their time and practice their class.

 

If you cannot learn your role while leveling through content 1-55, then you do not deserve to run a HM.

 

Do yourself a favor and learn to appreciate the people who do this. We are getting you through the FP in minimal time and passing on all loot.

 

Oh, and before you say "well your going to wipe if you don't have a healer or tank" think again - our companions are much better geared and most likely skilled than you will likely ever be.

 

get 4 guildies and stop imposing yourself on people who couldn't care less about your elitism and your arrogance. Stop wasting people's time by kicking them, just because they didn't fit your idea of "the right way to play"

 

no, you are not doing anyone a favor, people are NOT obligated to learn to appreciate it, they didn't ask for it and the best favor you could do us is stick to like minded people in your guild for your com runs, keep your assumptions and your condescending insults to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the game instead of turning into into some weird unpleasant job you have to get over with as quickly as possible.

 

and before you say anything - I'm perfectly capable keeping up with people like you. I've done it in WoW, and before saying: "to hell with it, this is not fun", I've done it in TOR. I merely don't assume that anyone choosing not to speed through content at breakneck pace is beneath me, doesn't deserve to enjoy aforementioned content that so much effort was put into creating, and is somehow beholden to me, just for gracing them with my presence.

get 4 guildies and stop imposing yourself on people who couldn't care less about your elitism and your arrogance. Stop wasting people's time by kicking them, just because they didn't fit your idea of "the right way to play"

 

But isn't that what you're doing? You are complaining and no doubt wanting to kick the people for not playing the way that you want to play.

 

Please don't be a hypocrite. At least I know and am proud that I'm an elitist ******e.

But isn't that what you're doing? You are complaining and no doubt wanting to kick the people for not playing the way that you want to play.

 

Please don't be a hypocrite. At least I know and am proud that I'm an elitist ******e.

 

Well, there is a general consesus of how things should normally go. If you would like to do it different, then at least you could ask the others if they're on board with you and your playstyle. And if they're not, it shouldn't be their problem. But you're making it theirs by kicking them out.

 

Also don't forget that there's another very easy and fast sollution for your speedruns (besides bringing guildies, that has already been pointed out).

Use the general chat on the fleet to ask if there are any takers. Just like other folks, who do this with Esseles/Black Talon social runs. I'm pretty sure there will be numerous takers of your offer of free gear and comms in 15 mins.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Atyaman
missed sthg

But isn't that what you're doing? You are complaining and no doubt wanting to kick the people for not playing the way that you want to play.

 

Please don't be a hypocrite. At least I know and am proud that I'm an elitist ******e.

 

I don't vote kick people, unless they become insufferable jerks to the rest of the group, continuously actively jeopardize success of the group, or disconnect for longer periods of time. and I, unlike you, don't assume that I'm god's gift to gaming. being proud of being an *** doesn't make it a good thing to be an ***, nor does it equal "favor" to the group that they "need to learn to appreciate"

 

this game works on a trinity system. which I respect. you respect nothing, but your own wishes. its not a good thing.

 

you know what you want. you stomp all over people who are not 100% on board in letting you get what you want. stick to others that you know want the same thing you do. and then you DARE to claim that you are making it more fun for people you are stomping all over? and how dare they be ungrateful and not appreciate it?

 

NO.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jeweledleah

If I didn't have to use group finder I wouldn't, but I do because of the 10 daily comm reward. My solution to slow tanks/heals (like the op) is to get a guildy who also wants basic comms to que with me. If the pulls are too slow or people don't spacebar we vote kick them then blow through the FP in under 15 minutes.

 

Let me be clear, the ONLY reason we are there is for the comms to buy isotope 5s. We do not care about the carebeares who want to watch the story in HM or want to take their time and practice their class.

 

If you cannot learn your role while leveling through content 1-55, then you do not deserve to run a HM.

 

Do yourself a favor and learn to appreciate the people who do this. We are getting you through the FP in minimal time and passing on all loot.

 

Oh, and before you say "well your going to wipe if you don't have a healer or tank" think again - our companions are much better geared and most likely skilled than you will likely ever be.

 

We had exactly the same discussion over at German forums and one guy who wrote just about the same as you. Consensus was: It's a matter of politeness, when you're in a group, to act to what the group's wish of going about is. That is: All 4 people, decided democratically. If 4 people say "Let's rush this!" fine, then it's rushed. If 3 people want to take their time, the one who doesn't want to is always free to leave. If it's 2 vs. 2, well then again it's a matter of politeness and good manners to figure out what's to be done.

 

I'm in FPs only for the comms as well, I may not have cleared TFB NiM yet like you did, but Kelsara's down to 20, so I know a little bit how to play.

 

But when I go for pugged FPs I bring enough time with me and I do respect other players' wishes. If it's a rush, I consider myself lucky, if it's anormal run as it was designed, then that's that.

 

Of course the game gives you the possibility to vote kick anyone who doesn't match your play style. But that's not acting in accordance with the spirit of an MMO, which draws a huge part of its fascination by the fact that it's played by, well, different kinds of people. That's not a matter of being a top gamer or not, it's more a question of what kind of person you want to be...

The ignore list is the right place to put the names of those making the game experience non enjoyable. Mine has a few over-geared DPS (amongst others) refusing to play their assigned role correctly or showing up an antisocial attitude. Edited July 10, 2013 by Nkya

If I didn't have to use group finder I wouldn't, but I do because of the 10 daily comm reward. My solution to slow tanks/heals (like the op) is to get a guildy who also wants basic comms to que with me. If the pulls are too slow or people don't spacebar we vote kick them then blow through the FP in under 15 minutes.

 

Let me be clear, the ONLY reason we are there is for the comms to buy isotope 5s. We do not care about the carebeares who want to watch the story in HM or want to take their time and practice their class.

 

If you cannot learn your role while leveling through content 1-55, then you do not deserve to run a HM.

 

Do yourself a favor and learn to appreciate the people who do this. We are getting you through the FP in minimal time and passing on all loot.

 

Oh, and before you say "well your going to wipe if you don't have a healer or tank" think again - our companions are much better geared and most likely skilled than you will likely ever be.

 

Do yourself a favor, do everybody a favor and queue a full group. You will be actually improving Group Finder and making a better game. Think about that. Don't deny us such improvement. Please.

When (and if) I run a flashpoint, I will run ahead and I will pull things. Why? Because I tend to have more health than the current tank as a DPS. I kill things fast enough that tanking is not necessary. I typically run with a healer from my guild that is capable of 2manning it.

 

Now, why would I sit around and wait for a tank to take his time and pull everything, when I could just do it for him and finish the place in a fraction of the time?

 

If you are running a 50 HM that's true, so I may give you a pass here, but again why are you running these to begin with. If you are running a 55 HM as dps, regardless of your gear, and you start tanking... I will 100% kick you, especially if I am the healer. And my healer is in mostly 72s.

 

And BTW, your efficiency as a tank has nothing to do with your HP. Mitigation is what counts. 25K HP tank is much stronger than 35K dps in terms of mitigating damage.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Ottoattack

Being that my first and (until recently) only character was a jedi guardian, I was actually the one trying to dps rush since every FP I went into was green since I or..*We outleveled it!* all the way to 55, though sometimes dps would do a better job of that, as a tank, I welcomed it.

we're talking about normal modes here, if I go into a FP and I'm 6 levels above every single mob who can barley touch me, why should I as a tank or anyone for that matter who can get hit and not take damage have to wait on others? If my dps was better as a tank (not to mention having alittle more ranged utility) I'd be the one rushing the group, if a dps who is also 53 or w.e. in a FP with 47lvl max mobs, go ahead.

Hard mode? no, I remember when heroics first came out in wow, I remember trying to solo the lowest instance at max level hoping for more money and very little extra challenge and got destroyed, and I'm 99% certain it follows the same rules here. I never bothered to attempt them in that game and I won't for this one either, Mobs should never have that kind of power under any circumstance,

I'll stick with endgame pvp thanks.

just to add something.

 

i can actually pull this off. I'm experienced enough to be able to do so. i can move between a split up group and keep it alive - split because dps decided to rush it and ran too far ahead and then tank pulls something else and we're fighting in 2 spots now (which is what often happens with people who think they don't need to stick with a group and the group should just scramble after them). its much harder on my merc then it is on my sorc or operative (since merc doesn't get a handy speed burst), but I can still do it.

 

however. not everyone can. and that's ok. that's why general idea is that you STICK WITH THE GROUP. moreover. I know of some people who actually enjoy this. 1. I'm not one of them. 2. I don't assume that pug I just met is one of them.

 

you run with your friends and/or guild. you can do whatever you want within tolerance levels of your friends. you run with strangers - you FIND out what they can tolerate first, act second. because in the end - you are playing with real, breathing human beings and their wishes and preferences matter too.

Being that my first and (until recently) only character was a jedi guardian, I was actually the one trying to dps rush since every FP I went into was green since I or..*We outleveled it!* all the way to 55, though sometimes dps would do a better job of that, as a tank, I welcomed it.

we're talking about normal modes here, if I go into a FP and I'm 6 levels above every single mob who can barley touch me, why should I as a tank or anyone for that matter who can get hit and not take damage have to wait on others? If my dps was better as a tank (not to mention having alittle more ranged utility) I'd be the one rushing the group, if a dps who is also 53 or w.e. in a FP with 47lvl max mobs, go ahead.

Hard mode? no, I remember when heroics first came out in wow, I remember trying to solo the lowest instance at max level hoping for more money and very little extra challenge and got destroyed, and I'm 99% certain it follows the same rules here. I never bothered to attempt them in that game and I won't for this one either, Mobs should never have that kind of power under any circumstance,

I'll stick with endgame pvp thanks.

 

Im sorry, but whould you try to explain me - since which patch dps becomes better than tank?

If there's wont be a healer, your *** will be squished, burned and thorn a part.

Thats not an insult. Its just a reminder about YOUR role.

Too all those individuals out there who think they are entitled to go ahead of the group, pull before the tank is ready or even just pull and kill everything on sight. Please do us all a favor if this is how you are going to be and create a premade GF team, and leave the pug GF teams to do the content they way it was meant to be.

 

I could care less if you are in 72 BIS gear. I could care less if you know every single insignificant part of the FP to the point where you can skip every single mob and loot the last chest to finish up that FP. I could care less if your DPS is high enough to one shot every mob in there and tank all mobs of the FP at once. I could care less if you can solo the entire FP... I don't care. The GF Pug made teams are for those who want to work as a team which whether you like it or not, letting the tank do their job and not having you do it for them.

Can i ask why you wouldnt just queue as tank/heal if you dont need them? After all your queue would pop faster?

In what world do people enjoy things harder when there is an easier way?

In a Game World where playing is for fun, not for watching some over-geared over-eager DPS run around skipping pretty much everything and blowing up the rest while the rest follow behind.

 

If you don't like that, get a group of your friends together that think as you do, and go to town. If you have friends.

In the lev 50 ones I don't say anything anymore if dps Leroy. Hell, a lev 50 hm can be duoed with no comps by decent players. But get in a 55, as a dps, and Leroy one pull I won't say anything. Mistakes happen. Do it twice and you'll get a warning. Do it 3 times and I immediately initiate vote kick. Usually works, since I'm normally the healer or the tank. It's not about it being easy for mr. Big and Important elitist sentinel, Idc if you can solo it, it's about group courtesy and being a good example to all the newbs since the double xp, the ones that are 55 and haven't had time to learn the mechanics of the trinity system. /end rant.

DPS don't "have to do" anything. They can leave or kick dictators easily. Working as a group should be the rule for everybody, not just DPS. If some tanks or healers want to dictate, then good luck with that, they would be on most ignore lists in a short time :-)

 

I'd really like to agree with you on this but unfortunately you're lying to yourself if this is what you believe. Tanks, and healers are at a premium when it comes to Ops, and FPs. DPS are a dime a dozen. It is just the way things are. Tanking and healing are vastly more difficult than DPSing and as such the healers and tanks will be the defacto "co-captains" of any particular group.

 

If a tank or healer leave you will be waiting upwards of 15-30 minutes for a replacement in most cases depending on time of day. For DPS it is much more forgiving as they can usually be replaced in a matter of minutes even during slow times.

 

 

So DPS are at the mercy of the tanks and healers, or they will be waiting half an hour for another FP to pop. If you are a DPS and choose to ignore uppity, drama queen tanks and healers then good luck getting into ANY GF FPs, or Ops once you've ignored enough of them.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Brittaany_Banks