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Operations Gearing Questions


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So I've been lvl 65 for a bit, mainly just doing Heroics and Flashpoints/Star Fortresses but now I want to gear my main for Ops, as well as get prepared with Abilities and Rotations etc. I'm a Lightning Specced Sith Sorc with almost full set of 216 Armor with the Blue Crystals.

 

I know you need 110% Accuracy, and from what I've been told, 35% Crit Chance is the point where you start going into other stats, right? A few questions I'd like someone to tell me: 1-How many Accuracy Augments do I need to get from my current 100% to 110%? 2-Which is better to go for, Mastery or Power? I know both increase the damage your abilities do, but which does more and is worth investing my Augments into so I don't waste a ton of money on the GTN?

 

If someone can give me some help, I'd appreciate it, thanks :)

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So I've been lvl 65 for a bit, mainly just doing Heroics and Flashpoints/Star Fortresses but now I want to gear my main for Ops, as well as get prepared with Abilities and Rotations etc. I'm a Lightning Specced Sith Sorc with almost full set of 216 Armor with the Blue Crystals.

 

I know you need 110% Accuracy, and from what I've been told, 35% Crit Chance is the point where you start going into other stats, right? A few questions I'd like someone to tell me: 1-How many Accuracy Augments do I need to get from my current 100% to 110%? 2-Which is better to go for, Mastery or Power? I know both increase the damage your abilities do, but which does more and is worth investing my Augments into so I don't waste a ton of money on the GTN?

 

If someone can give me some help, I'd appreciate it, thanks :)

 

Directly from Dulfy.net Sorc guide:

 

216 Defiant Gear

 

4969 Mastery

2639 Power

1213 Critical Rating (6xE, 3xA, 2xC)

730 Alacrity (10xA)

681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

 

E = Enhancement

A = Augment

C = Crystal

 

So to get accuracy to 110% you should use 3 enhancements and 1 augment

 

The math on Mastery vs Power is that Power has a minuscule edge. Honestly if you are just getting into running operations do not worry so much about total optimization. Unless you plan to get into NiM progression raiding - a LONG ways off if you are just getting started - optimization is not THAT important; the accuracy piece is important other than that the DPS checks in operations are not THAT tight.

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Directly from Dulfy.net Sorc guide:

 

216 Defiant Gear

 

4969 Mastery

2639 Power

1213 Critical Rating (6xE, 3xA, 2xC)

730 Alacrity (10xA)

681 Accuracy (4xE, 1xA)

 

E = Enhancement

A = Augment

C = Crystal

 

So to get accuracy to 110% you should use 3 enhancements and 1 augment

 

The math on Mastery vs Power is that Power has a minuscule edge. Honestly if you are just getting into running operations do not worry so much about total optimization. Unless you plan to get into NiM progression raiding - a LONG ways off if you are just getting started - optimization is not THAT important; the accuracy piece is important other than that the DPS checks in operations are not THAT tight.

 

What's "NiM progression raiding"? Also, thanks for explaining it to me. No offense to the first guy, but that link went WAY over my head. I'm not exactly...experienced when it comes to anything outside of PvE levelling and dailies etc. And I have Dyslexia so a big wall of text like that is hard for me to get :/.

 

Also, what's the main Rotation for a Sith Sorc Lightning DPS? Again, it was likely in the link the other guy posted but all that info is just too much for me in one go :/

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The math on Mastery vs Power is that Power has a minuscule edge.

 

Even if you're right, Power and Mastery augments are a waste of ressource for PVE. You're better off using tertiary stats augments (accuracy, crit and alacrity) since those ones are multiplicative instead of additive for power and mastery ones. Bant explained it somewhere in the forum. It's too late for me to search the specific thread right now, but he says it again in the thread linked above

 

 

Accuracy

Two changes have been made to Accuracy.

The first change is that all basic attacks that previously had a 10% accuracy penalty now no longer have an accuracy penalty and now behave in the same way as every other move.

The second is that the curve has been slightly adjusted so less accuracy is needed to reach the goal of 110%. The new goal at level 65 is 684.

 

Critical

Critical is now in the tertiary stat slot and now affects both critical chance and critical multiplier. The curves have been adjusted for both and are exactly the same. This new curve allows for more points to be put in than before and thus keeping its usefulness even with very high values.

 

Super Crit!

Super Crit is an addition that finally makes Critical Chance matter even for classes that use Autocrits. What Super Crit does is increase the Critical Multiplier for any move that has greater than 100% chance to crit. This bonus is based on Critical chance. This is not a straight addition of the two numbers, instead it is multiplicative increase.

The bonus is: [Critical Multiplier] * Max(100%, [Critical Chance %] + [100% Autocrit] )

This change makes critical chance always useful and buffs any class that has autocrits (including the 6 set for most dps)

 

BIS Augmenting:

Because of all of these changes, the following modifications should not be used in PVE:

Overkill (Power) Augment

Versatile (Mastery) Augment

Redoubt (Defense) Augment

Hawkeye (Power) Crystal

 

 

But as you said, there is not DPS check in SM that requires that much optimization or even any optimization at all even if I think the earlier you start wrapping your head around it, the best you'll be at it when you actually need it.

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What's "NiM progression raiding"? Also, thanks for explaining it to me. No offense to the first guy, but that link went WAY over my head. I'm not exactly...experienced when it comes to anything outside of PvE levelling and dailies etc. And I have Dyslexia so a big wall of text like that is hard for me to get :/.

 

Also, what's the main Rotation for a Sith Sorc Lightning DPS? Again, it was likely in the link the other guy posted but all that info is just too much for me in one go :/

 

so i mainly play madness now but this is near enough a perfect rotation

 

affliction

thundering blast

instant chain lightning

force speed

2x instant lightning bolt

Lightning flash (if that is what it is called)

crushing darkness

more lightning bolt

repeat

 

affliction should refresh when you use chain lightning

if chain lightning procs during the rotation use it.

you might also want to use your alacrity boost ability to cast things faster.

Edited by benmas
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Even if you're right, Power and Mastery augments are a waste of ressource for PVE. You're better off using tertiary stats augments (accuracy, crit and alacrity) since those ones are multiplicative instead of additive for power and mastery ones.

 

I never said to use Mastery or Power augments. In fact If the OP reads my list (taken from Dulfy) he will see there are NO mastery or power augments; it is all Accuracy, Alacrity, and Critical. Mastery and Power come from other item modifications (armorings, mods, enhancements) not augments

 

Nim progression raiding is nightmare difficulty raids. You have story mode then hard mode and finally nightmare on most raids.

 

Just to add more detail (sorry for the wall)

Story Mode or SM Operations are for those who wish to see the content. Most boss mechanics are simple so that the participants can "see the story".

There is also a "bolster" mechanic that bumps up stats so that any level 50-65 character can participate (i.e. there is a primary stats [endurance, mastery, and something else I forget what] minimum that the game will take your character to when you enter a SM Operation instance (as soon as you leave the stat bump is removed).

 

 

Hard Mode or HM Operations are for those who want more of a challenge. Boss health and damage are increased as well as the implementation of additional abilities.

Most of the time HMOps are done by a group of regular participants (aka guilds) who have a 3rd party VOIP package (Mubble, Teamspeak, Ventrillo) for easier and faster communication. I do not know if the bolster system is in place in HMOps or not, but stats and rotation are honestly not as important as understanding the mechanics of a given fight - specifically understanding:

  • who you need to be targeting (many boss fights have multiple targets to deal with)
  • what you need to be doing in any given moment (it's not just about standing there and doing DPS)
  • where you should be standing (in many cases specific roles stand in specific places to mitigate or outright avoid mechanics
  • when you should be doing each of the above
  • why you should be doing all of the above

 

Nightmare Mode or NiM Operations are for those who really want to push themselves to defeat the most difficult content in the game. For the most part this takes detailed knowledge of one's role (this is where stats and rotation really impact success or failure) and the five Ws (in the spoiler) above, to even have a chance of success. There are even more mechanics many of which are instant death if you fail to adhere to them.

 

Chances are as a new operations runner you will not be doing NiM anytime soon.

 

BTW, The new Eternal Championship IMO is a great operations trainer because of all the fight mechanics you get a good lesson in the five Ws of operations. There is a long standing axiom in operations: "You can't DPS if you're dead." The point being that "optimal" stats and knowing your rotation is meaningless if you do not have the situational awareness to get out of a bad spot.

Edited by psandak
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BTW, The new Eternal Championship IMO is a great operations trainer because of all the fight mechanics you get a good lesson in the five Ws of operations.

 

This would be true if you couldn't just ignore 90% of the mechanics in there.

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This would be true if you couldn't just ignore 90% of the mechanics in there.

 

But if you don't ignore them then it is good training

 

Same thing can be said of SMOps: yes you can ignore 90% of the mechanics in SMOPs bosses, but if you abide them you are one step closer to being ready for HMOps mechanics.

Edited by psandak
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But if you don't ignore them then it is good training

 

Same thing can be said of SMOps: yes you can ignore 90% of the mechanics in SMOPs bosses, but if you abide them you are one step closer to being ready for HMOps mechanics.

 

and why would you chose not to ignore them when for most of them you are not even penalized? (or penalized enough)

 

Most of those who did speed runs simply ignored certain mechanics cos its just simply faster not to give a F about them as there is no downside. If you want to teach someone to abide by the mechanics and have a more keen understanding in how the game works then simply make him/her fail that wave until he does so.

Edited by Xcurtx
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and why would you chose not to ignore them when for most of them you are not even penalized? (or penalized enough)

I'd argue with you here.

First time I went in full blind and died three times (once on spider boss due to some poison stacks and twice on batman since I didn't know kill order/heal back mechanic and stuff). Also, if your dps is godsterrible it's becoming problematic to do mechanics.

Not to mention new people tend to focus more on mechanics rather than doing rotations. Just today I got into disastrous guild Bront HM pug where people couldn't kill droid with the whole group alive (at least until we started using raid buffs) and ran like headless monkeys with orbs on them instead of staying there they're supposed to and doing their jobs.

Amount of info on the screen can be overwhelming for new guys, and Eternal Championship is good for those who can't read what's going on fluent enough. At least should be.

Also, for speed runs I essentially did every single mechanic, but it wasn't too "speedy". Found it more natural, anyway. Cheesing starts when you can do stuff properly, not before it, at the level of understanding that is. At least Championship's not the case.

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(Disclaimer, this is just IMO)

 

If even part of the design intent of an encounter is to encourage the development of sound, fundamental gameplay, then mechanics need to have a real cost.

 

Now - it's certainly arguable whether this is indeed BW's intent. I suspect it is not, as they show no interest in continuing to develop challenging content.

 

That said, in some pretend universe where this was something they'd planned, the mechanics are far too easy. As Curt says, many can simply be ignored.

 

Now, historically, in most MMO's including this one, it's been feasible to overgear mechanics. However generally the only players capable of doing so were players that had already demonstrated enough proficiency in these encounters to farm the requisite gear to do so. That ship has sailed though. But what used to BiS and required the defeat of NM Council/HM Revan is now found on Soa. So now anyone can overgear this stuff.

 

Create a mechanic that kills you if done incorrectly, people will learn mechanics.

 

They can be simple. They can be few and far between. But they have to actually have a penalty for not doing them correctly or they do not teach a thing.

 

Again, I don't think BW is trying to teach anyone anything. So this isn't about the people that demand their right to not know how to play. It's not that at all. This is about the idea that EC is in some way preparing people for some sort of more difficult content. It is not.

 

The encounters may very well be very difficult for many. But I'd wager the folks that find them difficult are the same people that have no interest in doing the more difficult content - the same people that could care less if EC isn't teaching them anything. And for those individuals the point doesn't apply anyway.

 

TL;DR EC is not a good stepping stone into more difficult content, nor was it likely intended as such.

 

****

 

As far as gearing goes, this game is different than some in that you don't want to think of your gear in terms of items or even ilvl but rather stat pools. The 216/220 numbers are somewhat misleading as you can put together a far better 216 set than the gear most "I'mz full 220!" tryhards use. Just understand that set/token pieces are better than gear you can buy using crystals, and they are better because they add more to your relevant stat pools.

 

And, at story mode level even that is over thinking it. Just get your accuracy squared then upgrade your stuff when you get higher level stuff or same-level but better optimized (low endurance see below) from tokens you win in operations. protip: you can get enough accuracy to cap from your set pieces so you dont need to get accuracy in your ear/implants.

 

Mastery/Power stats are unimportant to think about when gearing because you will get enough of them with your gear. You don't have to make sure you're getting enough - it goes up by itself as you get better gear. you only need to think about the ratio of Crit to Alacrity. You will never augment for power or mastery. (At least I don't think anyone does, but I do not play every class). When you see stats like posted above, power/mastery arent stats people tried to gear for, but rather that number represents what power/mastery ended up at when the other stats were geared towards properly.

 

Generally, for DPS, any item modification you see that has the same item level but lower endurance is better. It will have more of the stat pool allocated to things that make you do more damage. endurance does not do that thus is unimportant in operations.

 

As you are actually posting and asking about stats it seems you may care. If you do, you really ought to go over to Dulfy's site and look through the 4.0 sorc guide and at least learn your opener and the main abilities. Most specs have abilities that are not used so having them on your bar and using them is counterproductive.

 

you can have the best gear in the world but if you are pressing the wrong buttons it does not matter.

 

GL

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But what used to BiS and required the defeat of NM Council/HM Revan is now found on Soa. So now anyone can overgear this stuff.

 

Create a mechanic that kills you if done incorrectly, people will learn mechanics.

 

They can be simple. They can be few and far between. But they have to actually have a penalty for not doing them correctly or they do not teach a thing.

 

(SNIP)

 

TL;DR EC is not a good stepping stone into more difficult content, nor was it likely intended as such.

Now look at your post. You try to argue with a point of "It's a good stepping stone for further content" implying said further content is at least of the harder HMs level. It was never said by Championship praisers.

Rather, with dumbed down storymodes I'd very much love to see people who don't wipe to EC Minefield to probes enraging, who hit a brickwall on HM Sparky (which is a rare case but still, someone not carrying his own weight can be normally breezed through those, but get the unlucky group who fully consists of such players and you're done). If you see 1st boss in Karagga's enraging you know something's not right.

 

Rancor boss in Championship is quite good in that regard - if you're extremely bad in dancing around and putting some dps, it's possible to get soft enrage (according to dulfy, anyway).

Surely, it won't prepare EV/KP monkeys to Styrak or TfB (where they wipe day&night) better, and God forbid mentioning NiMs.

 

As for people not sure about entering operations as a whole (mind you, there are quite many people not doing anything but flashpoints for literally years in this game, besides all things, because they feel scared and 'not worthy' of doing even SM ops). For them, Championship is great. Hypothetically, if I'd be leading bunch of scrubs into some glorious storymode progression in a super casual and social guild, I'd very much like them to do Championship first, if they feel unsure about group content.

 

And about mechanics... There's a backside to it, normally meaningful mechanic = instakill or hard-to-survive soft enrage. At very least something hitting you for like 90% hp and telling: "duuuude, (don't) do that!". Sadly, in practice I usually see 2 types of people - those who read that blinking red lights instantly and find a way to save themselves/otherwise handle it (cheesing counts, even just using defensives - it DOES teach people about stuff, if you pressed a DCD you didn't "just ignore" the mechanic. Literally.) and those who hit a brickwall and for them it usually ends up with someone holding their hand at each specific case. The latter never learn to do mechanics, they only learn that _this_specific_boss_ will punish _them_ if they don't _press_the_button_like_the_guy_on_the_fleet_told_them. They never ever care about the group, much less about outhealable damage. It's very hard to make them do some mechanic if someone else is getting punished for them messing up (sadly, sometimes there're tanks like this, not knowing about swaps/taunting randomly etc etc). So the whole story is ending up with encounter-specific mechanics like interacting with item/console/whatever, general mechanics (like interrupts) are totally ignored unless some guy on the fleet/in the guild/on forums holds the hand for the guy who never learns anyway (and he won't learn to interrupt in general, only on this very boss! Maybe if it'd be a gauntlet with 10 bosses with interrupt mechanic, 10 bosses with positioning stuff... But would people even do it?).

 

There are people who learn but that's more of the exception, y'know, and those are much less of EV/KP farmers who already don't care due to overgear like you mentioned.

 

Finally, there's "don't stay in bad" "mechanic", but if you make red (yellow, whatever) circles hit incredibly f**king hard that very day forums will be flooded by people crying that it's not fun. You see, it's not fun for people to dance around aoe on the ground because for them it consumes most of the resources and they are not feeling like they can do something else like dpsing (which they can't, granted).

 

You need not only to do mechanics punishing to satisfy this kind of people, you also have to make it fun for them to do. FF14 handled it in interesting way - there's a tutorial, where you literally have not to stay in bad. Hit by aoe 4 times while killing the mobs = failed the attempt. It actually works, I haven't seen a single person who didn't even try to run out of bad the instant he sees it even though it's outhealable as well.

 

What would be perfect is having more bosses who inflict rakghoul-like debuff when you fail to run out. When half of your abilities fails to activate would you stay in bad... It's not fun. Also, it works better than just killing people. In that case, they don't get mad at developers for #gameishard, they get mad on the boss and, consequently, try to actually avoid aoes and stuff because death is just respawn-retry, and being impaired while you try to do your stuff actually feels painful.

 

 

TL;DR: Championship IMHO is great for people transiting between FPs and ops or solo play->group content in general, that wouldn't prepare them for hard content but at least it's more likely they'll carry their weight in stuff people farm, which is good enough for the start.

While I agree in general that mechanics should be more punishing for people to learn to do them, I must stress that largely accepted belief about mechanics simply hitting harder would work simply ain't no good if people are not motivated enough from the start. From my experience and observations, _impairing_ mechanics work way better, for harder bosses they may be chained as well (get a debuff, harder to run out next time, get debuff refreshed and so on) while there MUST be a breathing room, otherwise boss would be perceived as extremely unfun ("Boo, you get that debuff in the first 10 seconds and the whole fight takes ages after that").

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TL;DR: Championship IMHO is great for people transiting between FPs and ops or solo play->group content in general, that wouldn't prepare them for hard content but at least it's more likely they'll carry their weight in stuff people farm, which is good enough for the start.

 

I get what you are saying, for sure.

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Not sure if you still need help, but you can ignore pretty much all advice at this point on gear. Story Mode operations give you a bolster to stats. As long as you are wearing gear in all of your slots, you are well equipped to get started. If you keep progressing into the harder difficulties, balancing stats, augmenting, and mastering rotations are necessary. For now, just find a guild that likes to do SM runs and have fun.
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But if you don't ignore them then it is good training

 

Same thing can be said of SMOps: yes you can ignore 90% of the mechanics in SMOPs bosses, but if you abide them you are one step closer to being ready for HMOps mechanics.

 

You could have ignored many mechanics in operations before lvl sync of the operations, now its not that much possible. Yes, partially it is but you get bolster and bosses are lvl 65, not lvl 50 or 55 as before. Of course its still very very easy to do SM, but there are many pugs that fail them anyway.

 

As for Eternal Championship, it is about avoiding mechanics! The mechanics get harder and more intensive as time passes so your objective IS to dps the crap out of the boss to avoid the mechanics. I do understand people saying EC is dps intensive, well yes, it is, all operations are, there isnt an operation where the boss is killed using some mechanics, just good old dps!

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...there isnt an operation where the boss is killed using some mechanics, just good old dps!

 

Not to start an argument just to point out that for example Kephiss the undying takes increased damage when you blow a pillar on his ***. So yes it doesn't kill him, but you can save some time with increased DPS in this case. Anyway as I said I don't want to start a fight.

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To the original poster: You are definitely starting off on the right foot to be aware or gear levels and fight rotations. My friendly suggestion is to a starting PVE dps is to download a parsing tool and use it on a test dummy for a while. Nothing shows you the value of a good rotation and gives you a measure of your performance like a real time tool will. There are many boastful folks spouting how little gear they did a run with, or how great they know their toon, but nothing separates the good from the bad like a short enrage timer. SM ops can typically be done with 2k+ dps, but to do HM ops, being over 4k is preferred. Now there are a lot of e-peeners out there that will tell you they do 5k or 6k in the nude, but EV and KP HM are great for getting gear and do not have the performance requirements the others do. Many whine about this, but it is great for starting folks to get into the big leagues faster.

 

The two most important slots on your dps toon are the mainhand and offhand barrel or saber slot. If you afford it, craft it, or trade a guildie for it, those slots should have purple 216 or 220 items before moving from SM to HM. I am so tired of dragging some person's 22nd alt through runs with greens or blues in those slots. They may know the toon or the rotation (usually not that well), but they are a drag on the team's performance. When the blame starts flying on why a group wiped, if you know your dps was good, you are not the problem.

 

Have fun!

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My guardian has no alacrity at all, I use accuracy stims to stay at 111%. I went full crit gear, and I got 1.7k critical rating. that's for Vigilance, of course. That Overhead Slash hurts after a Plasma Brand, get a good crit hit, Plasma Brand can hit for 6k, Overhead Slash cab hit for 6.2k, and Blade storm can hit for at least 10k, the DPS just hurts like that.
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My guardian has no alacrity at all, I use accuracy stims to stay at 111%. I went full crit gear, and I got 1.7k critical rating. that's for Vigilance, of course. That Overhead Slash hurts after a Plasma Brand, get a good crit hit, Plasma Brand can hit for 6k, Overhead Slash cab hit for 6.2k, and Blade storm can hit for at least 10k, the DPS just hurts like that.

 

But what is the dps you do for 1.5mil on a parse dummy? Because I can promise you that you are going to do lower dps than someone with 1.2k crit and 600 alacrity with the same rotation, as their GCD's will be shorter, their channels will be shorter, and their dots will tick faster (and crit has horrenderous diminishing returns, so from 1.2k to 1.7k crit you probably only gain like 1 or 2% crit on that, so it's not very helpful).

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But what is the dps you do for 1.5mil on a parse dummy?

That isn't really the point as, say, Eternal Championship fights are all burstish and they favor little more crit for 'lucky' completion times - just not a lot more. Alacrity helps even in burst, ya know.

 

Point is that how hard a single ability activation hits barely tells anything about dps. Amplitude only matters when you can literally global stuff - and that's normally not the case.

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That isn't really the point as, say, Eternal Championship fights are all burstish and they favor little more crit for 'lucky' completion times - just not a lot more. Alacrity helps even in burst, ya know.

 

Point is that how hard a single ability activation hits barely tells anything about dps. Amplitude only matters when you can literally global stuff - and that's normally not the case.

 

I agree with your second point, but my hope was that the dude I called out on using no alacrity would go parse and find he's doing barely 5k dps (and that the op wouldn't decide that going full crit is the best way to gear for operations). So yes, if you are going to do 1 attack, than you want to stack crit, but otherwise (and especially for a dot spec) if you are in a fight that lasts any appreciable amount of time (as some of the eternal championship fights do) you want at least some alacrity.

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  • 3 weeks later...
What's "NiM progression raiding"? Also, thanks for explaining it to me. No offense to the first guy, but that link went WAY over my head. I'm not exactly...experienced when it comes to anything outside of PvE levelling and dailies etc. And I have Dyslexia so a big wall of text like that is hard for me to get :/.

 

Also, what's the main Rotation for a Sith Sorc Lightning DPS? Again, it was likely in the link the other guy posted but all that info is just too much for me in one go :/

 

Don't even worry about Nim for a while man. I will try to make it as easy as I can for you. Start in SM (story mode) operations. You want to get at least your 4 set unassembled bonus. Each boss you kill, you get a token for a piece of gear. you get great bonuses from that gear, that is why it is so important over crystal.

 

Augments....are.....expensive. So NEVER OVERWRITE AUGMENTS when you upgrade them. You can swap them to other toons using legacy gear. But for augments, you want to do accuracy until 110, then alacrity then crit. Usually I have around 3 of each (crit and alacrity).

 

As you do OPs you will want to roll on the off gear as well, they have either enhancements or mods in them that are best in slot, so you swap them out and that is called min/maxxing.

 

i think you want around the following percentages for a dps sage/sorcerer:

 

6.5-7% alacrity

37% crit chance

60-65% crit multiplier

 

I know that when people give the actual numbers, it can confuse people. If you can get higher crit (and you will when you can swap out some accuracy augments for mods or enhancements, keep stacking crit. Because after the soft cap, it all goes into surge now.

 

Hope that helps....

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I know that when people give the actual numbers, it can confuse people. If you can get higher crit (and you will when you can swap out some accuracy augments for mods or enhancements, keep stacking crit. Because after the soft cap, it all goes into surge now.

 

What...? Every point of Critical Rating you accumulate gives you the same exact percentage of Critical Chance and Critical Multiplier (the latter being what used to be Surge). The other doesn't begin deteriorating faster, they go at the exact same rate.

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