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June PvP Report


MikeBradley

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So any words on this?

 

 

 

I dont suppose you will remove that rating from players who have gotten it, or?

 

A friend who infiltrated the Ranked Mafia discord linked me this video he found in a special channel dedicated to exploits (and according to him, there are much more :eek: )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA3CLvbUgpI

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Edited by luminaraxd
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A friend who infiltrated the Ranked Mafia discord linked me this video he found in a special channel dedicated to exploits (and according to him, there are much more :eek: )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA3CLvbUgpI

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

 

Its clear that there are many ways to cheat the system. Its up to Bioware however, to monitor all this and most importantly remove the offenders and their gained stats.

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I love how you're all steaming a guy for something you all told me was impossible/didn't exist even though I had personally heard it happening.

 

Choosing when to queue based on prior knowledge enabled by in game mechanisms isn't, technically, cheating. It is only cheating, per the rules, if he purposely looses for his friend. If all he's doing is queuing on a new/less used toon while his high rated friend also happens to he queueing, technically, that's not cheating.

 

He can't guarantee that he will be with his friend. If he consistently does, it's not against the rules, it's simple queue manipulation.

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I love how you're all steaming a guy for something you all told me was impossible/didn't exist even though I had personally heard it happening.

 

Choosing when to queue based on prior knowledge enabled by in game mechanisms isn't, technically, cheating. It is only cheating, per the rules, if he purposely looses for his friend. If all he's doing is queuing on a new/less used toon while his high rated friend also happens to he queueing, technically, that's not cheating.

 

He can't guarantee that he will be with his friend. If he consistently does, it's not against the rules, it's simple queue manipulation.

 

The post I quoted him from, and where I pointed all this out before, was before your queue manipulation posts. When you talked about queue manipulation, my understanding was that you meant when queueing as a solo player, which is how I addressed it.

 

Queue syncing with a group is a totally different story. Of course that can be abused. If his intent is to boost his friend by queue syncing with him, that is as bad as traditional wintrading. You can't ignore the intent or the context of his actions. Just because what he did could be acceptable doesn't mean it is.

 

If two friends queue at the same time and they play their hardest against each other and when on the same team, and they are just playing ranked normally, that's obviously fine. As soon as the plan is to boost a certain player's rating by going on low rated characters and syncing, that is obviously, clearly the same thing as wintrading.

 

Also, in my last few posts I've been pretending that he's telling the truth about always trying to win. It's quite obvious that anyone doing stuff like this is trying hard when playing with the friend and not trying as hard (i.e., throwing) when against the friend.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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I love how you're all steaming a guy for something you all told me was impossible/didn't exist even though I had personally heard it happening.

 

Choosing when to queue based on prior knowledge enabled by in game mechanisms isn't, technically, cheating. It is only cheating, per the rules, if he purposely looses for his friend. If all he's doing is queuing on a new/less used toon while his high rated friend also happens to he queueing, technically, that's not cheating.

 

He can't guarantee that he will be with his friend. If he consistently does, it's not against the rules, it's simple queue manipulation.

 

Iam glad someone understands this. This is no difference as when some skilled healer asks his friend to queue as healer knowing his friend isnt that good on healing class while not asking him to throw of course or when someone saw a bad tank queueing for mats and relogs on his tank to farm him or when operative see that there are heal games going on so he fast relogs to his marauder and gets in heal games while everyone knows marauder is a better class for heal games than oper. Or when dot oper asks his friends or anyone else on fleet to queue tanks since this spec is pretty good in tanks games due to aoe pressure and healing support it can provide. Or as we do just queue on lowrated characters when our friends queue on highrated to greatly increase chance to get in one team and both get elo.

 

In all these cases NO ONE isnt throwing for anybody or even asks for it. No tos breaking, no punishment, impossible to prove anything. Just manipulations with dumb matchmaking system.

 

How and for what do you think that well-known manipulative guild on DM server appeared? Of course thanks to obvious matchmaking system. If you want to fix it remove matchmaking based on elo, NOTHING ELSE you can do.

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This is no difference as when some skilled healer asks his friend to queue as healer knowing his friend isnt that good on healing class while not asking him to throw of course

 

If they both queue with the understanding that the better healer is getting boosted by the worse healer, you're right, there is no difference, and that is also as bad as wintrading.

 

or when someone saw a bad tank queueing for mats and relogs on his tank to farm him

 

That is completely different. There is no coordination, no intent to boost anyone's rating.

 

or when operative see that there are heal games going on so he fast relogs to his marauder and gets in heal games while everyone knows marauder is a better class for heal games than oper.

 

Again, completely different. No coordination, no intent.

 

Or when dot oper asks his friends or anyone else on fleet to queue tanks since this spec is pretty good in tanks games due to aoe pressure and healing support it can provide. Or as we do just queue on lowrated characters when our friends queue on highrated to greatly increase chance to get in one team and both get elo.

 

So, again, this is wintrading. As soon as you start coordinating with other people or conspiring to boost people by queue syncing, you are in the wrong.

 

Can you really not see the difference? You really shouldn't be allowed to queue ranked if you can't.

 

In all these cases NO ONE isnt throwing for anybody or even asks for it. No tos breaking

 

Just blatantly not true. See responses above.

 

impossible to prove anything.

 

So here's the real issue. Except you've admitted it on the forums. Oops.

 

NO WINTRADING AND NO THROWING. CaPs locked it for you

 

No puppet, no puppet. You're the puppet.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Isn't the intent of practically everyone who does ranked to increase their rating?

 

The very fact /who exists undermines ranked, even if you are queueing solo. If you have, at any point, decided not to queue because you knew someone who could beat you was queueing, you're undermining the queue.

 

Also, I've been posting about queue manipulation for literal months, if not a year. The argument we had recently was not my first post on the subject.

 

Using game mechanics to manipulate the system in such ways undermines the meaningfulness of ratings, yes. But it is not against the rules. I mean, someone had to code the ability for you to open the /who menu and look for arenas, right? Someone coded the system that matches low ranked toons with high ranked ones. Working within that system to make it better for you is simple human nature. Does it undermine the intent? Yes. But its not something ban-worthy.

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Heh just check Group ranked ratings, if like gold tier will be 1750 its ridiculous that people will get top 3 reward with 1500 rating :D :D :D

 

I don't follow your point. could you explain it to me? also, the exact numbers requirements would necessarily have to be different for solo and group as they already are in elo tiers. but other than that, I'm not sure what you're saying.

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Isn't the intent of practically everyone who does ranked to increase their rating?

 

The very fact /who exists undermines ranked, even if you are queueing solo. If you have, at any point, decided not to queue because you knew someone who could beat you was queueing, you're undermining the queue.

 

Also, I've been posting about queue manipulation for literal months, if not a year. The argument we had recently was not my first post on the subject.

 

Using game mechanics to manipulate the system in such ways undermines the meaningfulness of ratings, yes. But it is not against the rules. I mean, someone had to code the ability for you to open the /who menu and look for arenas, right? Someone coded the system that matches low ranked toons with high ranked ones. Working within that system to make it better for you is simple human nature. Does it undermine the intent? Yes. But its not something ban-worthy.

 

Add another reason to the list of why I'm glad you don't queue ranked. Everyone's intent is to increase their OWN rating...and they are only allowed to do so legitimately. in Bladech's case, the intent wasn't to increase his own rating, but to boost his high rated friend.

 

I've already explained to you why you're wrong about /who. Go back and read that other thread. If you are queueing as an individual dps, nothing you can do with /who is going to make a big difference, and it isn't actually manipulating anything, not to mention the totally legitimate, non-underhanded ways of using it.

 

What Bladech has described involves manipulating the queue with multiple people in a coordinated fashion. How can you not see the difference? You don't think that conspiring to queue sync and boost people should be ban-worthy? You think it's the same as typing in /who and merely looking at the names of people queueing? People on this forum still shock me sometimes. This is such a simple issue.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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I don't follow your point. could you explain it to me? also, the exact numbers requirements would necessarily have to be different for solo and group as they already are in elo tiers. but other than that, I'm not sure what you're saying.

 

He's saying that at this rate some players will get top 3 without having reached the rating to get gold.

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He's saying that at this rate some players will get top 3 without having reached the rating to get gold.

 

ah. that's a balance and population issue. rules changes aren't going to help that.

 

although, if the system were more rigorous, medals AND top 3 should always have been relative to AC and even spec b/c, for example, it's masochistic to even queue solo on a PT, so a dps at 1350 with 50 matches is hella good, imo. (or really bad at win trading! lul)

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The point is the queue is blatantly manipulatable on many counts. You can see who's queueing, we know the system tries to make fair matches, etc. Knowledge is power after all, and in this case knowledge can be applied to make things work better for you.

 

Should people be banned for doing something designed into the game? How do you solve the fact that, due to chasing off people like myself, the population will not support 8 people of similar elo (again, 4 per team).

 

Their choices are:

1. Don't make a match

2. Match the low elo with the other low elo against a high elo team

3. Attempt to balance it by putting the high elo with the low elo.

 

The issue is a population one. If there were more people queuing what bladech was doing would not be possible.

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Knowledge is power after all, and in this case knowledge can be applied to make things work better for you.

 

What Bladech describes has nothing to do with mere knowledge. They are actively manipulating the system in ways designed to boost a certain player's rating. They are operating outside of the intended ranked mechanics. They are behaving in an unsportsmanlike fashion. They are as guilty as traditional wintraders.

 

All of that is fundamentally different from just seeing who is queueing and deciding personally whether you want to queue or not. Why are you still trying to equate them? It's like saying murder and jaywalking are both crimes so everyone is equally guilty.

 

Should people be banned for doing something designed into the game?

 

Just because something is possible within the game doesn't mean it shouldn't be bannable... Traditional wintrading, where one player throws for another player, is also possible within the design of the game. PEDs exist on earth. They are "designed into the game," yet it's still cheating to use them. Any kind of coordination between players is antithetical to the concept of solo ranked. I really don't get your point here.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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I'm not really defending the guy. I think what hes doing is blatantly undermining the point of fair play.

 

That said, show me in the rules where it says you can't queue at the same time as someone else. As long as hes not actively throwing a match for someone else, hes not technically breaking a rule.

 

Welcome to why elo is meaningless in such a low population system.

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If they both queue with the understanding that the better healer is getting boosted by the worse healer, you're right, there is no difference, and that is also as bad as wintrading.

 

 

 

That is completely different. There is no coordination, no intent to boost anyone's rating.

 

 

 

Again, completely different. No coordination, no intent.

 

 

 

So, again, this is wintrading. As soon as you start coordinating with other people or conspiring to boost people by queue syncing, you are in the wrong.

 

Can you really not see the difference? You really shouldn't be allowed to queue ranked if you can't.

 

 

 

Just blatantly not true. See responses above.

 

 

 

So here's the real issue. Except you've admitted it on the forums. Oops.

 

 

 

No puppet, no puppet. You're the puppet.

 

Bladech is right. As soon as there is NO LOOSING ON PURPOSE there is NO BREAK OF RULLES . When anyone, regardless why or for what he/she is queueing TRIES TO WIN ALL HIS/HER FIGHTS it is already fair game and can't be called wintrading.

 

thats what was and will be happening because it is not against rulles. and it will be happening as long as matchmaking based on elo will exist. This dumb and unfair matchmaking system must be changed

Edited by omaan
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What Bladech describes has nothing to do with mere knowledge. They are actively manipulating the system in ways designed to boost a certain player's rating. They are operating outside of the intended ranked mechanics. They are behaving in an unsportsmanlike fashion. They are as guilty as traditional wintraders.

 

All of that is fundamentally different from just seeing who is queueing and deciding personally whether you want to queue or not. Why are you still trying to equate them? It's like saying murder and jaywalking are both crimes so everyone is equally guilty.

 

 

 

Just because something is possible within the game doesn't mean it shouldn't be bannable... Traditional wintrading, where one player throws for another player, is also possible within the design of the game. PEDs exist on earth. They are "designed into the game," yet it's still cheating to use them. Any kind of coordination between players is antithetical to the concept of solo ranked. I really don't get your point here.

 

actually by doing this they boost their elo too since they win with highrated player in their group and get their low elo character up too. and if they are against their friend they also try to win and they might win. So IN THIS CASE EVERYONE is BOOSTING each other

Edited by omaan
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I'm not really defending the guy. I think what hes doing is blatantly undermining the point of fair play.

 

That said, show me in the rules where it says you can't queue at the same time as someone else. As long as hes not actively throwing a match for someone else, hes not technically breaking a rule.

 

Welcome to why elo is meaningless in such a low population system.

 

EXACtly. No throwing, no rule breaking, no punishment. In the that guy should blame matchmaking based on elo since it's very manipulative and players have to do this because such system punishes them for being skilled. and getting highest spots without using such legit tricks is unreal because system punishes highrated players by throwing them into teams with full noobs while wintraders easily can get highest spots in few hours.

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EXACtly. No throwing, no rule breaking, no punishment. In the that guy should blame matchmaking based on elo since it's very manipulative and players have to do this because such system punishes them for being skilled. and getting highest spots without using such legit tricks is unreal because system punishes highrated players by throwing them into teams with full noobs while wintraders easily can get highest spots in few hours.

 

For the umpteenth time you defend wintraders and rule-breakers. You and Bladech should not be allowed to queue for ranked. It's crazy that you even consider yourself a pvper when you admit to wintrading and continuously defend the actions of wintraders on the forums repeatedly. Seriously pathetic.

 

The fact that this issue is some form of debate is ridiculous. You have to understand that if you think there's any ambiguity here, you are a person that thinks cheating (in a general sense) to get ahead is acceptable.

 

You have the exact same immoral, backwards thinking as every wintrader I've encountered. You already think that you're the best, but the system is keeping you down, so you view it as acceptable to cheat to get what you think you deserve. Such people should be banned from ranked permanently.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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if you have trick the system into giving you rating you dont deserve your rating.. ie, you arent as good as you say. solos is not gr, if you are a god at gr, good for you but solos is not the same thing and you do not need the same rating as gr for solos. this is what caused the backfill crap of 3k solos elo in season 8-9.

 

solos is not 3k level. even with players manipulating the queue people are barely making 2k.. imagine if solos rating was actually based how good you were at solos instead of how good you were are manipulating the system. strange concept I know.

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i mean, the population of granked is probably even lower than solos, so if solos has a problem with queue manipulation, i'd think granked did too. pure speculation, as the last time i queued granked was nearly 2 years ago, but the logic seems sound.

 

experience tells me one thing: when you're relying on simple human nature hiding behind internet anonymity, fair play is the first victim.

 

to those with serious difficulties following basic reasoning: were there more people in the queue, it would be harder to control who was in the same match as you based on simple things like queue timing or hypothesizing on the elo based matchmaking.

Edited by KendraP
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i mean, the population of granked is probably even lower than solos, so if solos has a problem with queue manipulation, i'd think granked did too. pure speculation, as the last time i queued granked was nearly 2 years ago, but the logic seems sound.

 

Granked is totally dead. You can look at the leaderboards yourself and compare to solo ranked. Sorting by wins tells the story.

 

to those with serious difficulties following basic reasoning: were there more people in the queue, it would be harder to control who was in the same match as you based on simple things like queue timing or hypothesizing on the elo based matchmaking.

 

No one has debated this. I've said many times that most of solo ranked's problems are due to low population. But that doesn't mean we should excuse or have any tolerance for wintrading or other cheating. Again, this is not complicated.

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