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Ruffian/Lethality Guide


ShadowShrike's Avatar


ShadowShrike
12.28.2014 , 02:20 AM | #31
Hoping the concealment guide comes out soon.
This is inspiring me to get back into lethality operative practice, and trying to go for the big numbers with it.

edit: I can grab 3.76k with 180 gear and a 192 offhand, and several upon several mistakes. I can't wait to see what I can pull when I don't blank out in the 1.5 mil parse and master this spec.

Master-Jerico's Avatar


Master-Jerico
01.05.2015 , 11:52 AM | #32
Hi KBN,

I'm new to DPS (mainly tank) and I'm especially new to DOT specs. When would be the best time to reapply DOTS? I assume Shrap would be fine on cooldown because it does damage up front, but what about Vital Shot? I understand it doesn't tick for a few seconds after applying it.

Additional to that, what abilities would best follow your adrenal? It's been suggested to me that I should follow it up with a Sanguinary Shot, with which I've seen adequate results, but if there is better way, I'd love to hear it.

I'm having some success with your guide. It was originally very confusing, but determined to see it through, I really just needed to hit the dummy, and eventually magic happened. Best so far is 3882 in mainly 180 gear, with 186 barrels and crafted relics/Implants/Earpiece.

Cheers.
Caelis
<Luminous>

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.05.2015 , 02:06 PM | #33
Sorry for the delay on replying here…

Regarding an earlier question on applying DoTs with a GCD in between, the precise reason I don't do this is because of boss mechanics. Unlike Balance/Madness, there is relatively little that Ruffian can do without its DoTs up. Thus, when target swapping, it's important get the DoTs up as quickly as possible. Additionally, applying the DoTs together gives you the ability to allow them to fall off briefly when other things take priority (e.g. there are some rare cases where you want to use Blaster Whip, Point Blank Shot or even Flurry of Bolts rather than reapplying immediately). This shows up more often on boss fights than on a dummy.

Due to the mentioned cooldown displacement, I think that a rotation where the DoTs are split would do the most DPS on a dummy, but I don't think it's quite as robust in a boss scenario, and the cooldown advantage on a dummy is extremely minimal. Remember that we're bounded more by the rate at which we can dump upper hand than by our raw cooldowns, and we can't dump upper hand unless both DoTs are up. Unless you reapply the DoTs precisely as they fall off, you can't necessarily blow Brutal Shots during the filler GCD, which means that the benefits from injecting the spacer are a lot less exciting than they initially appear (and certainly less exciting than they were with pre-3.0 Dirty Fighting).

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Jerico View Post
I'm new to DPS (mainly tank) and I'm especially new to DOT specs. When would be the best time to reapply DOTS? I assume Shrap would be fine on cooldown because it does damage up front, but what about Vital Shot? I understand it doesn't tick for a few seconds after applying it.
When the DoTs have fallen off, reapply. I habitually use Shrap Bomb first, partially because of the cost, but mostly because it was the first of the pair listed in pauwee's old pre-2.0 hybrid sniper guide, which was in turn because Shrap Bomb used to have a longer cooldown than Vital Shot. Obviously, Dirty Fighting applies Vital Shot first (due to DoT spread). Ruffian can do whatever is more convenient.

The priority queue I give in the OP lists a point at which you can reasonably clip your DoTs prior to them falling off, but this is very rare. As a general rule, every time you clip your DoTs, you're just shaving damage off of an ability. Don't do it without a very very good reason.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Jerico View Post
Additional to that, what abilities would best follow your adrenal? It's been suggested to me that I should follow it up with a Sanguinary Shot, with which I've seen adequate results, but if there is better way, I'd love to hear it.
I like to use Sanguinary Shot immediately prior to my adrenal. It doesn't make that much of a difference though. Generally, I will use my adrenal right after reapplying DoTs, since I tend to have a glut of available cooldowns immediately after DoT application due to displacement. I also try to make sure I actually have a decent amount of energy as well (or Cool Head coming up), so that I can be maximally aggressive.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Jerico View Post
I'm having some success with your guide. It was originally very confusing, but determined to see it through, I really just needed to hit the dummy, and eventually magic happened. Best so far is 3882 in mainly 180 gear, with 186 barrels and crafted relics/Implants/Earpiece.
Keep at it! It's definitely a practice thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sayeru View Post
I tried to use a rotation, this is not perfect, but not bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG4_DO3Ua18
Some random thoughts:
  • Delaying Blaster Whip for Point Blank Shot is a DPS loss, and a large one at that. Some testing between Raulos and myself indicated that this rotation loses about 250 DPS in full 192s.
  • You're delaying Blaster Whip quite a bit actually. When you have one stack of Upper Hand and Blaster Whip is off cooldown…use Blaster Whip! Habitually using Brutal Shots whenever you have UH and PBS is on cooldown is an even bigger DPS loss, due to cooldown delay and energy utilization.
  • Don't use Flurry of Bolts with Cool Head off cooldown. BURN OUT! :-) That's what Quick Shot is for. Also, your rotation is a bit too energy efficient (meaning it's not burning as hard as it could be), as evidenced by the fact that you were still in high regen at the end of your second DoT cycle (following my rotation will burn you out at the end of that cycle, depending on crits).
  • You're splitting up your DoTs (bad for the reasons listed above), but not consistently (worse! clipping is bad!). As I said, I think an optimal dummy rotation would split by a GCD, but the gains would be marginal. Optimal boss rotation is most DEFINITELY to pair the DoTs.
  • Don't delay Sanguinary Shot ever unless you're reapplying your DoTs or you are already at 2 stacks of Upper Hand.
  • When you use Cool Head, try to make sure you're very very very low. Like, 20 (or less) energy low.

I need to post a parse video. My present live gear (basically 180s/186s) prevents me from pushing the numbers I listed in the OP (I'm sitting just shy of a 4.4k). I can mostly do the rotation though. Once I get a 4pc (cheaper PBS) I'll be able to do the full proper rotation.

Anyway, given the number that you got with your rotation, I would imagine that a proper rotation would have yielded at least a 4.7k, maybe a 4.8k. In related news, you should parse on the 1.5 mil with the DPS levels that you're getting. Notice how your DPS spiked insanely hard at the end. That's the effects of just a few good crits. Variability on the 1 mil is way too high with these short parses.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
01.05.2015 , 08:07 PM | #34
Question KBN: Sometimes, i'm finding myself delaying Blaster whip by 1-2 GCDs due to needing to reapply DoTs and then having to dump upper hands (because Unfair Advantage procced). In those cases, i'm finding its better off just delaying the Blaster Whip a 3rd GCD in order to allow the next Blaster Whip to proc Unfair Advantage. Would you recommend doing this or should I just keep blaster whip as close to on cooldown as possible?
Kwerty/Mossie

Once a guy who wrote guides, now just a guy getting back in
Vanguards/Powertechs 4 lyf

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.06.2015 , 01:02 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Question KBN: Sometimes, i'm finding myself delaying Blaster whip by 1-2 GCDs due to needing to reapply DoTs and then having to dump upper hands (because Unfair Advantage procced). In those cases, i'm finding its better off just delaying the Blaster Whip a 3rd GCD in order to allow the next Blaster Whip to proc Unfair Advantage. Would you recommend doing this or should I just keep blaster whip as close to on cooldown as possible?
That's an interesting question. My first impulse is to say "no", but I think it might depend a bit on exactly what you're using to fill that GCD. Remember that Ruffian really isn't energy-bounded in the strictest sense (almost no basic attacks), and that's even with keeping Blaster Whip as close to on CD as possible. It is time bounded though, so if you can consistently squeeze something good into that GCD, then it could be worth it.

Another thing to think about is that this delay situation generally only happens when you've hit Sanguinary Shot after DoT application at 2 stacks of Upper Hand. Under those circumstances, you can delay Blaster Whip to get an extra Brutal Shots, but I don't think that extra Brutal Shots is going to fall under the Sanguinary Shot buff. If it does fall under the buff, then effectively what you're doing is trading a later unbuffed double BS for an earlier buffed double BS, and that would definitely be a DPS increase.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

mydogclimbstree's Avatar


mydogclimbstree
01.07.2015 , 12:35 PM | #36
Bah, posted in the wrong thread.
Kym- Healer of Phil

Master-Jerico's Avatar


Master-Jerico
01.13.2015 , 01:15 AM | #37
Hi KBN,

Could you go in to a little more detail why you prefer the dummy with 1.5m health? Should this be the way for all classes?

Also, now that I'm getting a better handle on the rotation, could you clarify the part in your guide referring to using cool head - and how and why that leads to a DPS increase?

Thank you.

Quote:
Similarly, you want to make sure that you're using Cool Head exactly on cooldown. This is enormously hard, because it is very dependent on RNG. Part of the tricky thing about this spec is you just don't have a lot of time to use fillers, and when you do have time to use fillers, it's mostly going to be Point Blank Shot. In a five and a half minute parse, you're going to get maybe 12-15 Flurry of Bolts activations if you manage things correctly. That's not a lot of room in which to burn yourself out. This is basically just a matter of practice. Get a feel for the epicycles in the rotation which cost a lot of energy and the other epicycles which are energy positive. When you're trying to burn yourself out, be aware of where you are with respect to these epicycles (hint: there are four important ones and at least three other less important cycles, assuming my memory and counting are accurate). You want to hit 34 energy (no lower or higher) exactly as Cool Head comes off CD, no sooner and no later. If you can pull this off, you will see an enormous DPS jump. It's not doable on every parse though.
Caelis
<Luminous>

cs_zoltan's Avatar


cs_zoltan
01.13.2015 , 08:18 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Jerico View Post
Hi KBN,

Could you go in to a little more detail why you prefer the dummy with 1.5m health? Should this be the way for all classes?
I'm not KBN, but I have the 2nd best thing!
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=787464
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent. Now get out of here.

The Red Eclipse <PC Gamer Mint Imperials>
Kéja, Kejann, Aemis, Kyrí, Kyra'h, Késsa, Frängit, Lamîa, KalkïMaelin, Morwy

Whojoo's Avatar


Whojoo
01.13.2015 , 09:08 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Jerico View Post
Also, now that I'm getting a better handle on the rotation, could you clarify the part in your guide referring to using cool head - and how and why that leads to a DPS increase?.
I'm not KBN but I can help with this part.

Short story: with Cool Head you can use stronger abilities more often without dropping to low in energy. More stronger ability uses means more damage.

Longer story:

I am gonna throw some numbers down here. These numbers do not represent reality and serve just as an example.

Think of this, you got the following types of attacks:
A - Weak but no cost (Flurry of bolts)
B - Strong, or buffs other attacks, but with a cost (Vital Shot, Point Blank Shot)
C - Free but buffs other attacks (sang.... Shot ... the 10 sec buff that deals damage on internal ticks and Brutal Shot ticks)

Now keep in mind you use C pretty much on cooldown, so that leaves A and B.
In order to keep your energy above 60 you have to A and B. So you end up using A to be sure you dont drop below 60 energy.
This also means you delay using B because you had to use A (to stay above 60 energy).

In a 5 minute fight you are able to use:
Base 40 energy + 6 energy per second * 300 seconds (5 minutes)
so: energyUsed = 40 + 6 * 300 = 1840 energyUsed.

Now imagine you using B more often so that every 105 seconds you can go below 60 energy and back up again above 60 energy. Now imagine we use it on cooldown and we somehow imagine to time our energy with it that everytime we are 6 GCD below 60 energy.

So we take the opener in here and for now assume you need Cool Head at 40 seconds in the fight. That leads in a total of 3 uses in this fight and a total of 3*6=18 GCD under 60 energy = 27 seconds.
Our basic 1840 energy was with 300 seconds above 60 energy, but we were 27 seconds below it.
We end up with 1840-27*2=1786 energy in total (you regenerate 2 energy less below 60 and we just asume you will not hit a lower tier).

BUT we also used Cool Head 3 times, which means 3 teams an addition of 65 energy.
1786+65*3=1981 energy.

So with the usage of Cool Head we were able to use B a lot more often instead of A. Remember that B was strong and A was not. We're able to do this because we had a lot more energy to spend (141 in this example).

For the following I grabbed numbers from Dulfy's calculator since I forgot them myself.
Cool Head cooldown: 105 seconds.
Cool Head additional energy: 15 (so total is 65)
6GCD below 6 energy: Magic number I just came up with for this example.
The Red Eclipse
Republic Enforcers Suddenly Taken Over

Master-Jerico's Avatar


Master-Jerico
01.13.2015 , 10:11 PM | #40
Thank you to both non-KBN's. I appreciate your direction and guidance just the same.
Caelis
<Luminous>