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1.1.2 PvP bag changes.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
1.1.2 PvP bag changes.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

SWB-NL's Avatar


SWB-NL
02.02.2012 , 10:17 AM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by Bluetickone View Post
this is a good change. Champ gear was tooo easy to get,
That's the whole point really. It's been so easy to get with some luck that it's not fair to effectively lock those who are newly 50 or lack luck out of it until Valor 60. Basically Champion gear is what Centurion gear was supposed to be, relatively easy obtainable gear. (assuming you have some luck, which by now legions of players have had)

You can't let a large number of players just get gear too easily based on sheer luck, and then make it much harder for those who come after. Only fair way to do this is just abandon Centurion gear altogether, allow for farming of Champion commendations to have Champion gear obtained at the same average rate as the bag system with random token drops allowed, and then unlock Battlemaster gear at higher levels.

Or heck, if they really like the lottery of getting a better token in bags, allow BM gear from Champion bags and give BMs some sort of SuperBM gear. Either way, grinding for gear from commendations based on valor rank is good. Restricting new players from gear which was handed out like candy before is not.

FoxNemhauser's Avatar


FoxNemhauser
02.02.2012 , 10:18 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by JonnyFreedom View Post
2 guaranteed pieces per week with a chance at more imo. That still takes 2 months to gear out.
You mean the centurion pieces that you could get with centurion tokens?

That would be fine if you could rollback all the random gear that dropped from the bags but somehow I doubt that this would make people happy.

The damage is done - there are too many people running with champion sets and they will be running for quite some time while new people will be waiting 2 months to get geared in crappy centurion sets.



A solution to this would be making the current gear easier to get and make the next tier in a proper way.

Pantheros's Avatar


Pantheros
02.02.2012 , 10:22 AM | #123
I hit 50, get 2 champion pieces. Since then: 23 empty champion bags

And they're reducing the drop rate? k

Bluetickone's Avatar


Bluetickone
02.02.2012 , 10:22 AM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by SWB-NL View Post
That's the whole point really. It's been so easy to get with some luck that it's not fair to effectively lock those who are newly 50 or lack luck out of it until Valor 60. Basically Champion gear is what Centurion gear was supposed to be, relatively easy obtainable gear. (assuming you have some luck, which by now legions of players have had)

You can't let a large number of players just get gear too easily based on sheer luck, and then make it much harder for those who come after. Only fair way to do this is just abandon Centurion gear altogether, allow for farming of Champion commendations to have Champion gear obtained at the same average rate as the bag system with random token drops allowed, and then unlock Battlemaster gear at higher levels.

Or heck, if they really like the lottery of getting a better token in bags, allow BM gear from Champion bags and give BMs some sort of SuperBM gear. Either way, grinding for gear from commendations based on valor rank is good. Restricting new players from gear which was handed out like candy before is not.
This is hyperbole. Cent gear with new mods is competitive with Champ gear.

Nowyourdead's Avatar


Nowyourdead
02.02.2012 , 10:27 AM | #125
Wow I saw PVP patch notes on the bags and thought maybe they've improved the random system.

Bioware, do you actually play your game at all??? I guarantee once Diablo 3 comes out that I am unsubbing, there is no reason to stay at that point because you are not making a convincing MMO P2P experience for me worth sticking around and paying for.

"We listen and provide what the community wants" Really?!? F2P within 6 months I promise if you don't actually listen to your source of income - your customers...

Torn's Avatar


Torn
02.02.2012 , 10:38 AM | #126
If they are going to make this change they need to make Champion armor tokens behave like the BM tokens - because if you happen to get lucky and get a piece of gear and have it be a dupe what is total ****
" I see your is as big as mine "

Azriak's Avatar


Azriak
02.02.2012 , 10:39 AM | #127
Just wanted to agree with most people about dumping Centurion gear. The damage is done now - just let champion bags give champion tokens and BM bags give BM tokens. Bump the number of tokens to 8 or 9. Gives a far more reliable way to grind out Champion gear. It will still take new players a few weeks of hard fought pvp to get solid champ sets, but it's much better than the kick in the face you're suggesting.



Alternative suggestion:

buff t1 pvp gear to be closer to t2's stats so that it's only about 3-5% lower.

That would possibly be simpler thinking about it.
-Azriak

Yngvar's Avatar


Yngvar
02.02.2012 , 10:41 AM | #128
After 22 champion bags and only getting a pair of bracers and an implant, I gave up on pvp. This was last month. As a republic player its hard enough to get a win in WZ but I endured. But RNG is something I cant work with thats why I stopped pvping.

I only run operations and flashpoints now with the guild. We've been progressing into HM on ops and been getting my pve gear. I have enough columi commendations to buy 1 pc of gear but I got all my columi gear already and 2 pcs of rakata. Ive been running pvp and pve in the hopes to get my columi/champion mainhand. I play an inf shadow so the weapon is really important to me. Turns out, after many runs on ops, I still havent won one. Heck, 2 fresh 50s already beat me to it. Its RNG all over again.

Bioware, give us the means to get gear, even at columi level, with commendations. Knowing my luck, I'll probably get my weapon when it wont matter anymore and I'd be obsolete and have my spot taken by a better geared player. You dont hear people complaining bout the implant and ear slots coz ppl have a shot at it by working the dalies in ilum and belsavis. I was already burned by the bag rng in pvp, if it remains the same for pve, I might as well stop playing all together.

TechMaestro's Avatar


TechMaestro
02.02.2012 , 10:47 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by DimeStax View Post
You guys are missing the point. This issue goes beyond your whiny complaints that you're not getting gear as fast as the lucky Jones next door are; this is about implementing a pvp gear system for the long haul. Basically what was happening is the Gear Tokens drop rate was so high that people were getting geared out in Champion faster than what was intended so people were skipping completely over the natural progression of gear from Tier 1 and just expecting to immediately go straight to Tier 2 like they saw all their lucky friends doing.

The natural progression was obviously intended get Tier 1 (Centurion) gear from commendations with the chance of getting tier 2 (Champion). Then at the next stage get Tier 2 gear from commendations with the chance of getting T3 (Battlemaster).

Yes, this is going to hurt those people who just turned 50 because of how easily the first 50's farmed valor and gear but it will be better in the long run for the game.
^^^ This.

However Bioware should realise that their players are not stupid. It is insulting to our intelligence when the devs put out patch notes hoping that players would not be able to read between the lines.

FACT: PVP Gear progression in this game is too fast. Full Battlemaster geared players in 1 month of the game?? No one should have been able to get battlemaster gear until at least 3 months into the game. In fact no one should have been able to get tier 3 pve or pvp gear until 3 months into the game.

FACT: Valor rank progression in this game is too fast. Rank 60 in 1 month of the game? No one should have been able to get rank 60 until at least 3 months into the game. A system where you only get full valor from kills and warzones only when you fight players near or higher than your current valor rank should have been in game from the start. Fighting lower ranked players should have only given small amounts of valor. Winning a warzone should only have given a bonus on top of this valor.

What is sad to note is that they had these sort of systems in Warhammer. Despite the game being a failure, the pvp systems in that game did work. The pvp gear system there was also broken in that people could farm gear in empty city instances but it was months before they got the rank to be able to wear the gear. It is like they didn't learn anything from their failures OR their successes. Did your devs ever do a post mortem analysis on the game at all?

What you have now is a situation that people have gotten used to the easy mode gear and valor grind and any attempt to slow it down is going to lead to loss of subscriptions. Bioware has to bite the bullet and make these changes for the long term potential of the game. But they also have to be honest and come out and say these things. Players will be mad and some will quit the game. However a lot of the more rational players and other players who have not yet reached the end game will understand and continue playing the game as long as it is still fun to do so. Honesty is always the best policy even if it costs you subs. Admit you screwed up and take the heat and loss of subs and move on. The players who quit your game at this point are unlikely to be long term subscribers regardless.

My solution to the current issues:
  1. Put the blue lvl 50 pvp set back into the game. You should be able to buy this with credits as soon as you hit 50.
  2. Make the changes that you are suggesting to the bags.
  3. Put a valor rank requirement on the champion gear. Rank 50 is good enough.
  4. Adjust your expertise rating scale so that it soft caps at 7.5% damage and healing.

Mathrafal's Avatar


Mathrafal
02.02.2012 , 10:50 AM | #130
LOL! Talk about the great divide, people are either:

Already kitted with great gear, and in favor of this nerf;
or
Not 50 yet, and dreading having to gear up once this nerf goes into effect.


Whenever a new game comes out I like to level up as fast as possible, because I know this is ALWAYS what happens- stuff is easy to get/OP to start, and then balanced into impossibility a few weeks later. Thank goodness I already have most of my Champ gear.

There's a REALLY EASY fix here: allow a 3:1 conversion of cent/champ tokens. And then a 3:1 conversion of champ/BM tokens. Problem solved.