I realize that we all really play KOTFE for the story, and heck, even SWTOR for the story, but the gameplay is so downright bad that it actively hinders wanting to play the game. It isn't "mediocre" its... terrible... because it's ALL about filler. Hopefully I don't talk about difficulty to much...

Due to the difficulty of the general game, all those meaningless sky troopers are just... useless. They aren't a threat due to their damage and health output, you're going to defeat them regardless if you stand around doing nothing, it just simply matters when. For some people, their brain can be tricked into thinking that their doing something important, that clicking abilities matter and decides their fate, but not for me. I quickly noticed how I was never in danger, and although I tried, I just... could never put myself past the fact that companions are SO strong, that they do literally all the work for you. It takes away immersion and all sense of urgency knowing you're NEVER in danger, no matter how hard you try which further takes away from the game. Death doesn't have to always be prevalent, but it should still exist. Chapter 16 was actually refreshing, besides the Arcann fight, as you didn't need a whole lot of knowledge about your class, but you still presented obvious mechanics, yet at the same time semi challenging while also giving you something, for the most part, new. It keeps your brain active and thinking, while at the same time not requiring to much of a overhaul in knowledge about the game so those unskilled can still get through. This is how the rest of the gameplay needs to be managed, obvious mechanics to keep you thinking and on your feet, but not completely overpowering.

Yeah ... I... I know "says he doesn't want to talk about difficulty but does in his next paragraph anyway" but these go hand in hand with Bioware programming. Their attempt to increase "difficulty" is only tediousness, just giving the enemies extra crowd control affects with stuns, snares, and knockbacks that only artificially inflate the game. You're still going to triumph over them it just matters when. It serves COMPLETELY as filler.

Speaking of filler, that's another habit that's found in your chapters. Chapter 10 was the Epitome of this, running around getting swamped by sky troopers with CC, along with running all around the plaza only to inflate time spent in the chapter. Guss tunos alert was literally all filler, run back, forth, and too. The chapter with Guss should be about Guss, his personality, backstory, our interactions with him and about the grey side of the force. It should of been only one bar and that's it, the emphasize of the alert was him, not running to three different spots. I would rather have a more enjoyable chapter if it's shorter, rather than a long, artificially stretched out one for the sake of time spent playing.

I understand that we don't play KOTFE for the gameplay, but the gameplay shouldn't actively hinder for what we want to play, the story. The focus should be the story, and we shouldn't have to go through extra hoops like filler to get to it.

I realize that we all really play KOTFE for the story, and heck, even SWTOR for the story, but the gameplay is so downright bad that it actively hinders wanting to play the game. It isn't "mediocre" its... terrible... because it's ALL about filler. Hopefully I don't talk about difficulty to much...

 

Due to the difficulty of the general game, all those meaningless sky troopers are just... useless. They aren't a threat due to their damage and health output, you're going to defeat them regardless if you stand around doing nothing, it just simply matters when. For some people, their brain can be tricked into thinking that their doing something important, that clicking abilities matter and decides their fate, but not for me. I quickly noticed how I was never in danger, and although I tried, I just... could never put myself past the fact that companions are SO strong, that they do literally all the work for you. It takes away immersion and all sense of urgency knowing you're NEVER in danger, no matter how hard you try which further takes away from the game. Death doesn't have to always be prevalent, but it should still exist. Chapter 16 was actually refreshing, besides the Arcann fight, as you didn't need a whole lot of knowledge about your class, but you still presented obvious mechanics, yet at the same time semi challenging while also giving you something, for the most part, new. It keeps your brain active and thinking, while at the same time not requiring to much of a overhaul in knowledge about the game so those unskilled can still get through. This is how the rest of the gameplay needs to be managed, obvious mechanics to keep you thinking and on your feet, but not completely overpowering.

 

Yeah ... I... I know "says he doesn't want to talk about difficulty but does in his next paragraph anyway" but these go hand in hand with Bioware programming. Their attempt to increase "difficulty" is only tediousness, just giving the enemies extra crowd control affects with stuns, snares, and knockbacks that only artificially inflate the game. You're still going to triumph over them it just matters when. It serves COMPLETELY as filler.

 

Speaking of filler, that's another habit that's found in your chapters. Chapter 10 was the Epitome of this, running around getting swamped by sky troopers with CC, along with running all around the plaza only to inflate time spent in the chapter. Guss tunos alert was literally all filler, run back, forth, and too. The chapter with Guss should be about Guss, his personality, backstory, our interactions with him and about the grey side of the force. It should of been only one bar and that's it, the emphasize of the alert was him, not running to three different spots. I would rather have a more enjoyable chapter if it's shorter, rather than a long, artificially stretched out one for the sake of time spent playing.

 

I understand that we don't play KOTFE for the gameplay, but the gameplay shouldn't actively hinder for what we want to play, the story. The focus should be the story, and we shouldn't have to go through extra hoops like filler to get to it.

I believe the idea that story alone is enough to carry an MMO title is naive. Without gameplay you do not have a game.

I believe the idea that story alone is enough to carry an MMO title is naive. Without gameplay you do not have a game.

I'm not saying eliminate gameplay... just to get rid of the bad gameplay tropes.

I disagree. Shadow of Revan was worse. At least Skytroopers are faster to get through than doing Blood Hunt/Battle of Rishi/those annoying Yavin dailies for the billionth time.

Even one of the FPs you mention has more mechanics and different baddies in it than the entirety of KotFE put together. May not be perfect, but still better than the hallway grunt slaying fest that is KotFE.

Even one of the FPs you mention has more mechanics and different baddies in it than the entirety of KotFE put together. May not be perfect, but still better than the hallway grunt slaying fest that is KotFE.

So by your logic FE would be better if instead we just had people run directive 7?

In terms of difficulty those FPs are no harder than skytroopers, it just takes longer to burn down the bosses than the skytroopers and we have to do them more since they're also repetitive end game content. Now if we replaced those with the HM version you may have a point.

I disagree. Shadow of Revan was worse. At least Skytroopers are faster to get through than doing Blood Hunt/Battle of Rishi/those annoying Yavin dailies for the billionth time.

Shadow of Revan gameplay was a magnum opus in comparison to KotFE.

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper elite

Named NPC

Skytooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Copy that 16 times and you pretty much have ALL of KotFE's "gameplay".

All The Best

I disagree. Shadow of Revan was worse. At least Skytroopers are faster to get through than doing Blood Hunt/Battle of Rishi/those annoying Yavin dailies for the billionth time.

Completely disagree.

KOTFE had endless skytroopers thrown at you, each time I played it would be "oh god, again....really??" It became annoying and I kinda forced myself to finish it.

The skytroopers was probably the main thing that made me hate kotfe. It felt like such a chore. I wanted to enjoy the stories but knowing I had to grind through another 50 skytroopers really put me off it.

Due to the [lack of] difficulty of the general game, all those meaningless sky troopers are just... useless. They aren't a threat due to their damage and health output, you're going to defeat them regardless if you stand around doing nothing, it just simply matters when. For some people, their brain can be tricked into thinking that their doing something important, that clicking abilities matter and decides their fate, but not for me. I quickly noticed how I was never in danger, and although I tried, I just... could never put myself past the fact that companions are SO strong, that they do literally all the work for you. It takes away immersion and all sense of urgency knowing you're NEVER in danger, no matter how hard you try which further takes away from the game. Death doesn't have to always be prevalent, but it should still exist.

^This sums up KOTFE trash mobs.

If TL;DR, summarized: No challenge whatsoever, Never in danger of dying, MONOTONOUS

I think some players obviously have their rose-tinted goggles on when thinking of SWTOR pre-KOTFE.

Don't get me wrong, I agree the game had a little more challenge to it in the early days. Back before you unlocked the +500 presence bonus and/or all the class buffs. Even without those two legacy unlocks the solo PvE element was never overly difficult if you took the simple expedient of being a couple of levels or more above the content and walking around with your healer companion when you got it.

The difficulty curve largely went filler content, end of chapter boss fight (interrupt one channeled ability), next chapter filler.

I guess a lot of the people complaining about the linearity and repetitiveness of the new content don't realise how linear the original gameplay was, the difference was only in the width of the corridors Open world is not open world if there's no real exploration and you just have to go from A to B and back again.

Difficulty was also highly dependent on the Advanced Class and Discipline you took. End up with self heals and 60 sec crowd control and the original game was a breeze.

Aside from pushing into content that wasn't technically meant for solo players I'm not sure where the difficulty was found in the original.

I disagree. Shadow of Revan was worse. At least Skytroopers are faster to get through than doing Blood Hunt/Battle of Rishi/those annoying Yavin dailies for the billionth time.

I actually enjoyed the gameplay and the missions for Shadow of Revan / Ziost far more than the gameplay of KotFE.

It doesn't even matter if you are playing a stealth class, because the way they have coded it, is you cross that "invisible" line and you automatically get put into combat. Which defeats the purpose of having classes, especially ones that sneak around quietly without being noticed.

The flashpoints of Shadow of Revan (including the whole prelude and the way it was all setup) tied into the story nicely. KotFE we gained Star Fortresses, again those tied in nicely, however were all exactly the same, albeit minor differences to layout / champions you fight. Having a solo option for flashpoints isn't in anyway a bad thing, but to not bother making the flashpoint where 4 players can run the content with a challenge isn't a good thing either.

I think my final issue with KotFE is the very small areas that you tend to only visit once. It isn't like Rishi, or Yain 4, or Makeb, or any other planet / moon we can visit. There are no daily areas or missions, no world bosses to fight, no leads into operations. It's all very small. Well done, but very small. If anything that doesn't make it feel like Star Wars to me.

I think some players obviously have their rose-tinted goggles on when thinking of SWTOR pre-KOTFE.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree the game had a little more challenge to it in the early days. Back before you unlocked the +500 presence bonus and/or all the class buffs. Even without those two legacy unlocks the solo PvE element was never overly difficult if you took the simple expedient of being a couple of levels or more above the content and walking around with your healer companion when you got it.

 

The difficulty curve largely went filler content, end of chapter boss fight (interrupt one channeled ability), next chapter filler.

 

I guess a lot of the people complaining about the linearity and repetitiveness of the new content don't realise how linear the original gameplay was, the difference was only in the width of the corridors Open world is not open world if there's no real exploration and you just have to go from A to B and back again.

 

Difficulty was also highly dependent on the Advanced Class and Discipline you took. End up with self heals and 60 sec crowd control and the original game was a breeze.

 

Aside from pushing into content that wasn't technically meant for solo players I'm not sure where the difficulty was found in the original.

Admitably a lot of vanilla SWTOR was filler too, but not nearly to the level KOTFE had. Not to mention vanilla had side quests, lore, codex entries, and actual environments to explore and gaze upon. Their were interesting enemies to hunt and fight, and their degree in difficulty wasn't to high, but if you were unprepared in terms of gear or skill, they almost killed which therefore gave you the illusion of difficulty. With KOTFE you can go in naked and barely get scratched at all, with no side quests, optional difficult enemies, codex entries, and barely anything to look at.

While small, it was interesting seeing a primitive like species such as the tusken raiders, getting a bit of their culture, and then moving onto alderaan seeing their giant monument and statues. The only thing we see is a rundown city of Zakuul 75% of the time which leads to it being stale and lacking variety. Darvannis is almost completely empty, and Vandin was interesting a bit, but only usable for one chapter and looks to similar to Zakkul.

To be perfectly honest, KOTFE is just following the example of the Star Wars films. Ever since A New Hope, there has always been a cannon fodder enemy. Historically, that enemy has been stormtroopers. Skytroopers are just KOTFE's variant on that cannon fodder that Star Wars always has.

I'd also like to point out that engagements did get A LOT better as the chapters progressed. Yes, Chapter 10 was really redundant and repetitive with skytroopers. However, how Chapter 16 handled mobs with varying mini-bosses with different mechanics was actually well-executed. BioWare has definitely improved in its execution and hopefully it continues to get better with KOTET.

Admitably a lot of vanilla SWTOR was filler too, but not nearly to the level KOTFE had. Not to mention vanilla had side quests, lore, codex entries, and actual environments to explore and gaze upon.

In theme park MMOs... every thing is pretty much filler. Games are meant to amuse and entertain... and as long as they do.. play on. So the question is whether you are entertained and have fun with it, or it's a drudge. And only you can answer that. And if the answer is yes... get up off the floor and make some personal choices about changing your game play experience, IMO.

Sandbox (some peoples alleged holy grail of MMOs) is all player driven, and from the smallish market in MMOs for sandbox, clearly that is even more of a drudge to a majority of players interested in MMOs.

If you find it a drudge, as the OP claims... then make a choice in your favor.. play something else that is not a drudge. Good luck with that in the MMO market though..... because once you have been there done that, many player immediately throw the drudge-flag.

What I find hilarious in threads like these are all the pile-ons from players who claim to be disenchanted with the game, yet continue to pay a sub and complain on the forums. If the game sucks, stop playing it.. at least for a while. Frankly a lot of players over play a game until they feel like they are eating glass or something. Temper your game play IMO.

Now... if it's really about you liking some parts of a game and not others.... then suck it up.. because when you have no control over the content (and none of us do) there is no point in endlessly complaining about it.

 

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper elite

Named NPC

Skytooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

 

Copy that 16 times and you pretty much have ALL of KotFE's "gameplay".

Nice exaggeration. There is a good deal more to KoTFE then just trash mobs in trooper skins. Would you feel better if it was a wide range of random rodents instead? Likely not.

As for trash mobs, they are part and parcel to MMOs. Personally, before they toned down the trash mobs in Makeb... I thought it was pretty tedious......much much worse then the worst Skytrooper spam in KoTFE. But they fixed that with Makeb later on.. to make it simply level progression mechanics. At least the Skytroopers go down without much real effort and so it's mostly sweep or bypass until you get to your objectives.

Nice exaggeration. There is a good deal more to KoTFE then just trash mobs in trooper skins. Would you feel better if it was a wide range of random rodents instead? Likely not.

 

As for trash mobs, they are part and parcel to MMOs. Personally, before they toned down the trash mobs in Makeb... I thought it was pretty tedious......much much worse then the worst Skytrooper spam in KoTFE. But they fixed that with Makeb later on.. to make it simply level progression mechanics. At least the Skytroopers go down without much real effort and so it's mostly sweep or bypass until you get to your objectives.

I'd prefer it if the way we meet trash mobs wasn't almost identical right through KotFE - run down a corridor fight three troopers, run a bit further down the corridor fight three more troopers.

Yes trash mobs are part and parcel of MMORPGs, but the pacing, spacing and grouping can be varied to make things a little less mundane can they not.

Skytroopers dying easy is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.

Considering how epic our opponents are supposed to be they pose very little threat to us.

All The Best

The usual straw man arguments I see... any attempt you can to defend precious Bioware... going more after the poster rather than the subject at hand.

In theme park MMOs... every thing is pretty much filler. Games are meant to amuse and entertain... and as long as they do.. play on. So the question is whether you are entertained and have fun with it, or it's a drudge. And only you can answer that. And if the answer is yes... get up off the floor and make some personal choices about changing your game play experience, IMO.

You know what I meant Andryah... and this is the ONLY SW MMO... it's not like I can move on from one Asian MMO grinder to another or something that can replace it. This is the only worthwhile SW game in like 4 years, so im stuck with what I got. I can stick through the terrible gameplay if the story isn't half bad, which the story itself isn't, but the KOTFE overall expansion is incredibly lack luster.

Now... if it's really about you liking some parts of a game and not others.... then suck it up.. because when you have no control over the content (and none of us do) there is no point in endlessly complaining about it.

Contrary to your belief, game developers DO actually listen to their communities, DICE is proof of this as they even made community maps given by feedback of the community to shape and create what we wanted, and their controlled by Corporate EA. If enough people voice their thoughts and opinions on the negatives of this game, then something WILL change, and if no one does, then how do you expect games to change?

Nice exaggeration. There is a good deal more to KoTFE then just trash mobs in trooper skins. Would you feel better if it was a wide range of random rodents instead? Likely not.

 

As for trash mobs, they are part and parcel to MMOs. Personally, before they toned down the trash mobs in Makeb... I thought it was pretty tedious......much much worse then the worst Skytrooper spam in KoTFE. But they fixed that with Makeb later on.. to make it simply level progression mechanics. At least the Skytroopers go down without much real effort and so it's mostly sweep or bypass until you get to your objectives.

I know right? He totally left out cut scenes!

Cut Scene (advisors tell you what you need to do - you are obedient and get to it)

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper elite

Cut scene

Named NPC

Cut scene (Choice of 1/2/3 answer options)

Skytooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Skytrooper

Cut Scene (Same scene regardless of what you chose)

I just find it amusing when people go on about BW being known for story, but the seem to selectively forget that their "story" games are generally challenging as well. Look at Bioshock, their most recognized title. Just because there is a good story, does not equate to any challenge, or hard to beat scenarios.

You are either trolling or you don't even know what games BioWare has developed...

BioWare has developed Baldur's Gate 1-2, Neverwinter Nights, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 1, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1-3, Dragon Age 1-3, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and currently Mass Effect Andromeda, a new BioWare IP, as well as a rumored Star Wars single player RPG are in active development.

Bioshock 1 and Infinite were developed by Irrational Games. That is an entirely separate studio.

Admitably a lot of vanilla SWTOR was filler too, but not nearly to the level KOTFE had. Not to mention vanilla had side quests, lore, codex entries, and actual environments to explore and gaze upon. Their were interesting enemies to hunt and fight, and their degree in difficulty wasn't to high, but if you were unprepared in terms of gear or skill, they almost killed which therefore gave you the illusion of difficulty. With KOTFE you can go in naked and barely get scratched at all, with no side quests, optional difficult enemies, codex entries, and barely anything to look at.

 

While small, it was interesting seeing a primitive like species such as the tusken raiders, getting a bit of their culture, and then moving onto alderaan seeing their giant monument and statues. The only thing we see is a rundown city of Zakuul 75% of the time which leads to it being stale and lacking variety. Darvannis is almost completely empty, and Vandin was interesting a bit, but only usable for one chapter and looks to similar to Zakkul.

The 'illusion of difficulty'??? seriously you are complaining about filler content and then saying you preferred it when fights were long and drawn out but you still won?

The content of KOTFE hasn't overly bothered me. The levels while being extremely linear have felt far better in design and art. Corridors feel cramped and claustrophobic rather than being the width of a football field. The older undercity of Coruscant and Nar Shaddaa feel tame compared to the undercity of Zakuul.

I get it that he basic story content isn't difficult, but then when you are rolling out content on a monthly schedule it's not in your vested interest to block progression. Instead you need to introduce alternate non-story content to offer a challenge, maybe something like Eternal Championship might fit that bill.

Or you could learn your rotation well enough to burn through the mobs at a better speed.

Of course the problem with MMOs is that they have to cater to such a spread of players there will always be someone complaining about the content and direction of the game. Back in vanilla most of the world design complaints were about how needlessly sprawling the worlds were and the excess amount of side quests that needed to be done to level (hence the x12xp events and rebalancing of levelling to just need the class quests).

Contrary to your belief, game developers DO actually listen to their communities, DICE is proof of this as they even made community maps given by feedback of the community to shape and create what we wanted, and their controlled by Corporate EA. If enough people voice their thoughts and opinions on the negatives of this game, then something WILL change, and if no one does, then how do you expect games to change?

Nice change up there. Which Dice MMO are you referring to?

And honestly, I think 5 years of constant complaining here has proven that complaints presented just for the sake of complaining .... rarely every listened to.. unless they point to a nasty bug.

Now.. if you want changes made to the game, by all means.. use the suggestion forum. I know they read it. But then again.. this isn't about getting changes made is it? It's about you complaining for the sake of complaining. I give you credit though... you are persistent at it. How's that working out for you so far?

You are either trolling or you don't even know what games BioWare has developed...

 

BioWare has developed Baldur's Gate 1-2, Neverwinter Nights, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 1, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1-3, Dragon Age 1-3, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and currently Mass Effect Andromeda, a new BioWare IP, as well as a rumored Star Wars single player RPG are in active development.

 

Bioshock 1 and Infinite were developed by Irrational Games. That is an entirely separate studio.

I assumed he meant Mass Effect. And if so, he's 100% correct.