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Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

  • Sorc and Sage
    • Madness/Balance
    • Corruption/Seer

    [*]PT and Vanguard

    • Pyrotech/Plasmatech

    [*]Assassin and Shadow

    • Hatred/Serenity

    [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

    • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    • Engineering/Saboteur

    [*]Merc and Commando

    • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    • Arsenal/Gunnery

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

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This looks like a good list. Depending on the changes, I think a lot of people will be happy.

Personally I would like the balance(will never be serenity) shadow's range and aoe size back. The latter was nerfed with sages for no reason. I would also like to see a way for balance to have the aoe dmg reduction without impacting tanks.

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What I'd really want to see, and fortune has it I made a thread about it just before this one was released, is Force Lightning being returned to Sith Assassins and Project to Jedi Shadows. It was such an iconic move of that class, the Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular class. I really found it a great pity they were removed from those two advanced classes while in the Sith Inquisitor storyline a Sith Assassin still uses Force Lightning frequently in cutscenes.

 

Perhaps the abilities could be returned to Sith Assassins and Jedi Shadows in the class changes coming this summer, their mobility maintained by for example a new Utility that would make Force Lightning or Project castable while moving?

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Please give Powertech/Vanguard tanks some love, pretty please with sprinkles and a cherry on top. They lag behind the two other tank specs significantly at the moment in terms of holding aggro, being damage sponges, lacking any ability to cleanse themselves or temporarily negate/dodge/reflect incoming attacks--and don't get me started on how Commandos/Mercenaries can make better tanks than Vanguards/Powertechs right now, with all their cooldowns... :( Edited by AscendingSky
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If you change anything at all in viru it should be to lower the energy cost of takedown to make it an actually viable option to use in your rotation. It's extremely stupid that something that procs every time you cull is only ever used if you have to move because otherwise it is a dps loss and energy waster.
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^ This!

 

Looking forward to seeing more details starting Friday.

 

If they change any utilities, they should return Force Lightning to Sith Assassins and the Jedi counterpart to Jedi Shadows and add a new utility that makes it possible for those classes to be able to cast those abilities while moving as to maintain their mobility. Force Lightning should never have been removed from Sith Assassins.

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Lightning and Telekinetics has to be on that list. It's not even performing on an average level right now. Both Balance and Telekinetics are currently performing poorly when compared to other specs. So much as that the 5.0 DPS charts placed Telekinetics on the second to last to third to last spot in performance, with only Balance being worse.

 

Neither Balance nor Telekinetics are really good for their job right now, so that discipline should be looked at too.

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I agree with you on that, but I'd also add Marksman/Sharpshooter, since it's also at the bottom of the DPS charts.

 

Both need simple fixes to make them more competive.

 

MM just needs a rebuff to PB and TK needs base damage increased.

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Lightning needs to be on the list.

Yes it's ranged "burst" class but it shouldn't be so low in dps charts.

Didn't devs read class forums at all since 5.0?

 

The Sith Sorcerer has suffered enough nerfs already, they really need to be buffed because while I adore playing that class it's so sad what has happened to them :(

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Veteran dps sorcerer here (Nythysus for those on Progenitor), just wanted to quickly throw my two cents in regarding class changes to sorcs.

 

I've long been of the opinion that the main issue for both dps disciplines from 4.x through 5.x has not only been the fact that they are lagging behind the other classes in terms of damage, but also that they have a clear lack of survivability, particularly in PvP, but also (to perhaps a lesser extent) in PvE. I'd go as far as to say that for me, at least, the issue of survivability is the most important for madness and lightning and outweighs the problem of their slightly inferior dps.

 

I say this as a result of my own personal experience over the course of the last few months. On average, and if left alone by the opposite team, I am able to outperform the other classes in terms of raw damage a good 8 out of 10 PvP games, even reaching as much as 6k dps over the course of a good game. In contrast, if I am focused by more than about 2 enemy dps for an extended duration, even with a tank or healer, the tables are quickly turned and my ability to provide sustained dps is hindered exponentially. This is not due to a L2P issue, I feel I have reached a point where I can consider myself beyond the need for that. It's simply the case that sorc dps cannot power through sustaining damage that other classes can simply shrug off easily, and I feel this is the main reason that many players feel that their sorcerer dps need a damage boost (you can't dps if you're dying every 30 seconds).

 

I believe this to be a problem for both dps discplines, and therefore feel lightning should be added to this list, with my personal recommendation being some form of increase in passive damage reduction (for lightning this could be a buff of the fulgurous fortification discipline tree perk that already exists, and for madness perhaps something similar could be introduced). That would also ensure that another frequent concern I have heard from players (sorcerer healers becoming too powerful) does not occur, as the changes would be discipline specific.

 

I'm working on a comprehensive list of further/alternative recommendations that I will be submitting to the class forums in due time.

 

Thank you for reading this!

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Oh come one, lightning/TK specs need a huge dps increase. They have been bottom of the pile for years, both in PVE and PVP. Is it because they are incredibly fun to play, that you worry if they become a viable spec choice everyone will want to play them?
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i'm surprised that Lightning / Tk is not on the list ..

 

Hey now, you leave my bug zappers on the patio where they are happiset...

 

Seriously though, they do need to be added to the top of that list

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No lightning on this list makes it poor by itself.

 

Some facts and opinions about lightning:

 

Currently worst in sustained damage of all current disciplines by a whopping ~15%. This alone should make it be buffed asap.

 

Currently worst in all burst damage of burst specs by an extreme margin

 

Defensives are only better than Jugg and PT Defensives, so below average here too

 

I've been playing Sorc DPS since late 2.X and the only time that Lightning has been above useless tier was for a brief period in early 3.X before it got nerfed to the ground. Even during that period it was wose than both of its contemporaries in Mercs and Snipers in PVE content.

 

And it's not being touched until after this summer when it's spent 6 months already as the worst discipline in the game? :rak_02: :rak_02:

Edited by Dewlmenow
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No lightning on this list makes it poor by itself.

 

Some facts and opinions about lightning:

 

Currently worst in sustained damage of all current disciplines by a whopping ~15%. This alone should make it be buffed asap.

 

Currently worst in all burst damage of burst specs by an extreme margin

 

Defensives are only better than Jugg and PT Defensives, so below average here too

 

I've been playing Sorc DPS since late 2.X and the only time that Lightning has been above useless tier was for a brief period in early 3.X before it got nerfed to the ground. Even during that period it was wose than both of it's contemporaries in Mercs and Snipers in PVE content.

 

And it's not being touched until after this summer when it's spent 6 months already as the worst discipline in the game? :rak_02: :rak_02:

 

I hope the fact that Lightning isn't in the list yet is because they are discussing it at length as to how to make it epic and amazing again. Surely this is only the first batch of changes that is to come :) as long as Bioware will consider returning Force Lightning to Sith Assassins and its Jedi counterpart to Jedi Shadows with the optional utility of having it be castable while moving to keep the class' mobility, I will be content.

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