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Finally switched to Dirty Fighting, endgame PvE


IrishChu

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Been MM since January. Im full Campaing/BH.

 

On an ops dummy over 5min, my best dps was 1715 using full MM.

 

just switch to DF last night and hit 1875 dps on second attempt. Can't wait to try it in raid tonight.

Edited by IrishChu
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I've been switching back and forth between pure SS, DF, and DF/Sab. I haven't noticed a huge difference, but I remember thinking the same thing when I first went DF. I still feel more comfortable as SS, which is my preferred spec when helping progression groups or bad pugs, just because I feel a lot more useful on phases such as Tank shields and Kaphess bombardiers (its the short burst that most groups I run with seem to lack), but I'm growing more and more fond of DF in general with my normal group, and DF/Sab is looking especially tempting after I parsed some great numbers in a 4man EV hardmode tonight.
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I'm certainly not pulling 1800, but then again I'm about a half a tier behind you OP, but yeah I sympathize with this post.

 

I pull about 1650ish as df/sab in Rakata/BH.

 

I do a little worse with pure DF (1500ish), but in all honesty I haven't mastered the rotation yet.

 

I do significantly worse (1300ish) as full SS.

Edited by Marak
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I'm certainly not pulling 1800, but then again I'm about a half a tier behind you OP, but yeah I sympathize with this post.

 

I pull about 1650ish as df/sab in Rakata/BH.

 

I do a little worse with pure DF (1500ish), but in all honesty I haven't mastered the rotation yet.

 

I do significantly worse (1300ish) as full SS.

 

Same here. I am full BH slowly working towards the ideal gear with black hole gear mods - an interesting note: campaign gear is completely unnecessary for the Gunslinger unless you want it for the set bonus armoring.

 

I used to do 1200-1300 now I do 1500-1600 because I switched to DF/Sab.

 

Best spec for Gunslinger: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700hrbkrMhdZrI0bRoZb.2

 

Hope that works. I would like to compare it to pure Dirt Fighting. The Hemorrhaging Blast is not as beneficial as the Shock Charge and the Insurrection is magic for energy regen so I can imagine this spec is better than pure DF always.

 

A question: does Shock Charge count as a bleed? Does it amplify Wounding Shots? If not then should shock charge go before or afte Wounding Shots in an opener.

 

My current opener:

Flourish Shot - Shrap Bomb - Vital Shot - Shock Charge - Wounding Shots - Sabotage Charge

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It does *not* count as an extra bleed effect, but being relatively new to the spec, I'm not sure what an ideal rotation might look like. I'd imagine putting all 3 up at the same time would be the cleanest rotation, but switching it up a bit might make a difference with energy regen.
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Been MM since January. Im full Campaing/BH.

 

On an ops dummy over 5min, my best dps was 1715 using full MM.

 

just switch to DF last night and hit 1875 dps on second attempt. Can't wait to try it in raid tonight.

 

any chance you can post your Spec/Rotation.AskMrRobot gear?

 

I only ask because im Full campaign with black hole mods to remod myself. Im fairly new to DF but i can only seem to hit about 1600 (except for one parse where i hit 1991 DPS but i suspect that is because Guss Tuno was doing DPS too!!)

 

My current Rotation is:

Flourish > Vital > Hemo > Shrap Bomb > WoundingShot > Sab Charge > Speed Shot>Wounding Shot

then

Vital > Hemo > Shrap Bomb > WoundingShot > Aimed Shot > Speed Shot>Wounding Shot

 

I dont Tend to need a flurry of bolts that often because my crit helps sustain my energy.

 

Be interested to see how i can improve though. I definitely feel Dirty Fighting is the BEST spec overall for Gunslinger (my opinion) so Id love to perfect it. Please feel free to pick me apart.

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I use:

 

Shrap -> Vital -> Hemo -> Wounding -> Filler -> More Fillers (as time allows) -> Wounding -> Repeat

 

Keep flourish up, otherwise use XS, Speed Shot, Sab Charge for fillers on cooldowns, and occasionally you'll be able to fit in an Aimed Shot. Replace with Flurry as needed.

 

Make sure to get both DoTs up before you Hemo, then Wounding right after and you'll be able to fit in another Wounding just before you need to reapply your DoTs (replace weakened versions right away in your normal rotation) and repeat. Don't waste energy or a GCD on Flourish if you don't need to, if someone else is applying it in their normal rotation (guardians or gunnery commandos).

Edited by Synavix
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Spec/Gear : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/1f759a6a-c43e-4221-8803-f783f6a6ef46

 

1850 DPS: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/b701e043-4cd9-4970-87df-31b9abf92b05/overview#d=0,t=1,b=1

 

1875 DPS: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d913f4f3-9124-4ea6-8699-9ad6fde721e0/overview#d=0,t=1,b=1

 

I use a somewhat crude method by starting 5min timer on my cell phone, dps the ops dummy, then stop when timer goes off. Take the total damage and divide by 300 seconds. (try my best to end with no dots up). this method works best to counter the ops dummy out of combat glitchyness, though that doesn't seem to happen anymore with DF and constant DoTs.

 

Rotation:

Start with heavy burst

XS Freighter Flyb - Shrap Bomb - Vital shot - Illegal Mods - Power Adrenal - Hemorrhaging Blast - Wounding Shots - Sabotage Charge - Cool Head - Speed Shot - Wounding Shots - Aimed Shot

 

Fall into a sustaining rotation

Shrap Bomb - Vital Shot - Hemorrhaging Blast - Wounding Shots - Speed Shot - filler - Wounding Shots - filler

 

for fillers, use flurry of botls to conserve energy, or sabo charge/aimed shot/ charged burst / XSFF for higher dps.

There definitely seems to be much more of a variety in rotations with DF compared to a very static rotation in Sharpshooter. Sometimes, I go for a third Wounding Shot based if I'm near the end of a burn phase / dmg boost instead of simply restarting after the 2nd Wounding shot.

Edited by IrishChu
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Cheers. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the 2 of us. Just the adrenals That I don't use on dummy's. Think that could add 100 DPS??

 

I also use fryingtime to parse my damage because mrrobot for some reason won't tell you your DPS on a dummy!

 

For example, the 1 you have listed as 1875 shows a fight time of 0.09 hrs. 0.09 x 60 = 5.4 mins which = 324 seconds. That then has your DPS as 1735.

 

Might be worth looking at other parsers for the dummy.

 

There is still a gap there though for me to bridge so I'll give it a shot later with adrenals.

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Cheers. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the 2 of us. Just the adrenals That I don't use on dummy's. Think that could add 100 DPS??

 

I also use fryingtime to parse my damage because mrrobot for some reason won't tell you your DPS on a dummy!

 

For example, the 1 you have listed as 1875 shows a fight time of 0.09 hrs. 0.09 x 60 = 5.4 mins which = 324 seconds. That then has your DPS as 1735.

 

Might be worth looking at other parsers for the dummy.

 

There is still a gap there though for me to bridge so I'll give it a shot later with adrenals.

 

I always wait to be out of combat, close the combat logging, then upload the file. There is some additional time waiting to get out of combat thought usually not 24 seconds, more along the line of 8-10s. Again i try to end with no DoTs applied but the numbers may be padded by "Nice Try" but the effects are slight, maybe 1K damage at best.

 

Using the adrenal twice would definitely increase your dps by atleast 100 over a 5min fight.

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Regarding PVE endgame raiding:

 

So, my DF rotation is keeping wounding shots on cooldown, hemo on cooldown, sab charge on cooldown, and XS Flyby on cooldown...and speed shots and flurry are fillers and energy management....I really haven't thought to bother with any other abilities in the rotation, and any advice is welcome...I'm two weeks new to gunslinger class, full campagin gear, and my parsing is weak. My stats are all over the place, as I'm just starting the process of remodding.

 

 

so I open XS Flyby->Flourish->Vital->Shrap->Hemo->Wounding->->Sab charge->Speedshot->Wounding->

 

Flurry of Bolts,Cool head, and Illegal mods are woven in obviously for energy management.

 

 

A question...Nice Try appears like crap...15% of the dmg of the orginal, lol. Do people not take it? Most builds I've read all over this forum still spec into it...

 

So my question...if you are running a fairly tight rotation, keeping what you need on cooldown and hitting wounding everytime its up....roughly how many times should you be using wounding before refreshing your dots? I want to refresh dots before Nice Try, so it seems like you can hit Wounding Shots roughly 3 times before you go about refreshing vital shot and shrap.

 

Please help. My parsing is sad, and even tho my stats are pretty bad even in campagin gear, its hard to imagine I'm 400-500 dps off just because of stats.

 

Bonus Dmg: 791

Crit: 42%

Crit Multipler: 66%

Cunning: 2070

Accuracy: 115%

Edited by Felkroth
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Aside from dropping some accuracy for more surge in your gear, you seem to be on the right track with everything else. One thing you *can* work into your rotation is Aimed shot (when you have a few seconds for more filler, plenty of energy, and everything else is on CD), but that won't make a huge difference, since in most fights with movement you'll only have time in your rotation for a few, if any.

 

Regarding Nice Try: The reason I take it is twofold. The biggest thing is for filler to get up to Hemo. There just isn't anything better. The other reason being that on a fight like Gharj, where you're moving and/or switching targets, it can add up to a substantial amount of extra damage if you don't time your DoTs right to last the entire movement phase. Another use would be on a fight like Tanks, where you can let your DoTs roll on a secondary target while primarily DPSing the other.

 

Edit: You are right about reapplying your DoTs though. Ideally you reapply immediately after the last tick of the full DoT finishes, which works out to two Wounding Shots per cycle, the first with Hemo applied immediately prior.

Edited by Synavix
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I open XS Flyby->Flourish->Vital->Shrap->Hemo->Wounding->->Sab charge->Speedshot->Wounding->

 

For trash fights, that's fine. For bosses, you want to be regenning energy while Flyby is casting. I think a more typical boss fight opening would be

 

Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Hemo Blast -> Wounding Shots -> XS Flyby -> Speed Shots -> Wounding Shots -> ...

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For trash fights, that's fine. For bosses, you want to be regenning energy while Flyby is casting. I think a more typical boss fight opening would be

 

Shrap Bomb -> Vital Shot -> Hemo Blast -> Wounding Shots -> XS Flyby -> Speed Shots -> Wounding Shots -> ...

 

yeap i do exactly that... I usually use Hemo first just so that in case I need to regen energy by allowing nice try to persist while still using wounding shots (this is NOT a good idea, but sometimes when required....)... just a habit so I remember that the next 10 dots had better be full damage ones :rolleyes:

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yeap i do exactly that... I usually use Hemo first just so that in case I need to regen energy by allowing nice try to persist while still using wounding shots (this is NOT a good idea, but sometimes when required....)... just a habit so I remember that the next 10 dots had better be full damage ones :rolleyes:

WS will eat up all your Hemo charges anyway...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Am considering making this switch, and accept based on other's research that over time the dirty fighting spec can produce more overall dmg.

Will obviously dummy-test it, but assuming the five minute dps numbers are ~10% higher than sharpshooter, my question is whether, in current raid scenarios, the long term damage is still superior when considering boss fight situations such as:

 

1) the need for burst dmg on Keph's bombers

2) the need for burst dmg on Keph's walker

3) reflective damage situations like Toth/Zorn's fearful, or NP-dog's bloodmark -- if you're using a DoT spec and get one of these debuffs, do the ongoing ticks of dmg kill you?

 

I'm using Campaign/BH, bit more crit % than probably optimal. I typically do 10% less dmg than our (very good) sentinel, but stack up well to the other dps in our raids which recently finished EC hardmode.

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1) never had a problem with bombers. I tend to get out 1x WS and then a speed shot/quick draw.

 

2) start "setting up" as the bomb carrier runs to the droid. Drop your debuffs on him etc and as soon as he's vulnerable you hurt him up. So no problem there either.

 

3) fearful debuff is slightly trickier than in SS. Only slightly though. You can still stay at about 33m to do WS/AS/Sped shot. You only need to be -30m for throwing dots on and Sab charge. If you know the fight and positioning, you can sit at 29m the whole time safely.

 

Still 3) To answer your question though, when they jump together, Toth cleanses zorn (removes his DoTs) BUT if you are specced for "nice try" like 99% of PvE DFers, the 'weak' versions of both DoTs are applied. And this will damage you a lot. It's possible to survive if you pop def screen and get lots of love from your healer though!

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-Any dots which were applied before receiving a reflective damage debuff will not hurt you

-Switching targets frequently/killing adds is much harder as dirty fighting

-Flourish shot is a low energy move which will not increase your dots damage. Therefore applying it before your dots is really unnecessary.

-Having the 2piece pvp set bonus makes XS freighter by far your most powerful DPS even without the set bonus it is your best, so use it, start the fight with it (with coolhead)

-Aimed shot should only be used as a filler if energy is real tight and with a proper rotation is unneeded

 

-In between wounding shots you should be either:

A) reapply dots +hemo blast +flurry of bolts///

B) speed shot + filler + flurry of bolts

C) XS flyby +flurry X2///

(Fillers are sabcharge and autocrit charger burst)

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  • 1 month later...

ive been using the Hybrid DF/Sabo for a wile now and have feel i have mastered it. on dummies i do 1900 dps till the end of time. and i do crazy damage in ops, here is what i have worked out as far as rotation

 

1.Sharp bomb

2.Shock Charge

3.Vital Shot

4.Sabotage Charge

5.Illegal Mods/adrenal or relic if you have it

6.Wounding Shots

7.Speed Shot

8.XS Freighter (only use if Cool Head is gonna be ready right after, fill this spot with 2 flurry of bolts if Cool head is not ready)

9.Cool Head

10.Wounding Shots.

 

after that you you get back to rotation. one thing about this rotation is there is gonna be 2 flurry of bolts in it no matter what. so if you see your energy drop to 3 bars its ok to put a flurry in that spot, another thing is Sabotage charge and wounding shots is gonna come off cool down at the same time a lot, always get Sabotage charge in first, its the key part of not running out of energy

 

below is a Mox parser code to a combat log of Nighmare pilgram and EC HM, the other classes in the log is Acharon:watchman Sentinal, Swaiy:SS Gunslinger, Finalsmack:Combat Sentinal and me WlliamsF/Sabo Gunslinger

 

here is the place to use the code: http://memoriesofxendor.com/parser/RaidData.aspx

 

the raid key: ts_sf_67392

 

here is a link to how i am geared and my build http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/894d3ac0-61f2-42d1-b342-bf878138bc9c

 

and here is some numbers on the ops training dummies, ignore the numbers on first fight

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/f3e56d18-bf4d-40a1-8a8b-bde197495352/overview#d=0,f=2,t=1,b=1

Edited by RichardSkywalk
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Oh for ****'s sake. If you're going to post a parse saying that you do over 1900 dps and expect a fair comparison to other classes/builds, you cannot use a Rakata Attack Adrenal during your parse, let alone use it 3 times during your parse. The proper way to do it is to have full buffs/sim and go for 5+ minutes. Never (not once not never) use an adrenal during your parses. This boosts your numbers to a level which is great for e-peen stroking, but does not provide any useful information as to what your build is capable of.
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Oh for ****'s sake. If you're going to post a parse saying that you do over 1900 dps and expect a fair comparison to other classes/builds, you cannot use a Rakata Attack Adrenal during your parse, let alone use it 3 times during your parse. The proper way to do it is to have full buffs/sim and go for 5+ minutes. Never (not once not never) use an adrenal during your parses. This boosts your numbers to a level which is great for e-peen stroking, but does not provide any useful information as to what your build is capable of.

 

here you go parse God, 5 minutes no adrenal over 1900 dps... for the record it was a bit over 2000 before i stoped but lost 50 dps waiting for the dummies to drop aggro

 

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/a01b9dbc-fdc8-4f0a-966e-d5bc633362c5/overview#d=0,f=2,t=1,b=1

Edited by RichardSkywalk
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I'm pretty sure the only reason the 2/16/23 DF/SAB Hybrid even keeps up with pure DF is because shock charge adds an extra bleed tick to Wounding Shots when it shouldn't, its not a bleed but is a dot.

 

Shrap bomb and Vital shot both state they are bleeds in their tooltip. Whereas shock charge is a charge that electrocutes the target periodically for energy damage, not internal damage.

 

Video for proof -

 

Try it yourself on the training dummy :)

 

Interrogation probe on my sniper does not give the same effect.. I reckon its a bug and shouldn't be adding to Wounding shots but its been around since release so who knows.

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Nice bump on the post. Impressed by your numbers without the adrenal Wlliam. 596K over 5min

 

It has been awhile since my last round of parsing numbers on ops dummy. Full BiS now and in DF spec listed in sig, I was pulling 585K fairly consistently which is good for a 1950ish dps. (with adrenal). Tried once without adrenal and actually messed up from the queue ability but pulled a 540K. These are all 5min parses.

 

So i switched to the sab/df spec which I have known about but just never bothered with. Attemped about 10 parses and must say that it seems vastly different. I tried following your rotation, and it works well one run through with cool head, the 2nd run starts running into energy issues, and by the third i have to drop SS and just flurry. I see what you mean by getting in sab nade before the wounding shots, as they both come up of CD at the same time. So I started 3 the dots, wait on the sab (like 1 second) then pound with wounding shots.

 

Interesingly on my first real attempt, i pulled a 583K WIITHOUT adrenal. almost higher than the DF I was pulling with adrenal. Second attempt was 540K, third attempt was 580K. Figured I would give it shot with the adrenal, and thought it was my best attempt, and it only came out to 560K, very confused/disappointed. Not going to go much about the numbers since I only have tried the spec for an hour.

 

What I have noticed with the sab/df spec is the wide variance of numbers I was getting. This may be due to not knowing the rotation inside and out. but nonetheless, it appears to have a higher ceiling, but also drops off quicker too if you mess up.

 

More importanly about the rotation, I feel the sab/df has huge energy swings. I was easily dropping to the lower 20% range of energy and popping back up to 80% energy in a short time. The three dots alone, are 20 energy each, then sab charge, then wounding shots, then the energy comes storming back. But the following rotations is where i find to have trouble when there is no cool head/illegal mods, and sab charge is on cd. The energy regen just isnt there to cover the cost of the 3 dots.

 

Compared to the full DF, energy always seems to be above the 50% mark. 2 dots at 20 energy, free Hemm shot, then wounding and your constantly in the above 60% high energy regen. allows for burst and recover with cool head.

 

But i cannot deny that without adrenal i topped what i was doing with DF. So I will keep at it, and from here on i will always be using the rakata stim and the rakata adrenal. It too confusing to compare numbers without them since anyone that is legit is either using biochem or using exotech so parse with them and stop complaining in my opinion.

 

586K over 5min with adrenal, full DF

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/146fb830-b7a3-4e84-99ec-4d77260774dc/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1

 

583K first attempt with sab/df no adrenal

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d427b4b3-9331-4afe-9805-b10417717b98/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1

 

580K third attempt with sab/df no adrenal

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/dc357694-dc73-490b-af16-6edafa482417/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1

 

I cant seem to keep up with the number of Speed Shots, even with my spec i have 41% crit, and 20 less power.

Thanks for the info.

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