Hey y'all,

 

Since the PTS was brought back online, I've been playing around with and testing the new gear, set-bonuses and amplifiers. While I was quite chagrined by the changes at the start, I'm happy to see that you're taking our feedback seriously and have already begun implementing improvements.

However, today I’d like to offer some feedback on the changes that were made not to gear acquisition but to stat distribution and the gear pieces itselves since I think that those changes are what is unattractive about the new gear system. With gear pieces, I refer to: armorings, barrels, hilts, mods, enhancements as well as earpieces and implants.

 

What is currently on the PTS:

At the moment, there are 21 variations for every type of gear piece that was in the game before, on live.

An example to explain the situation: On the live server we have three different mods designed for DPS, tanks and healers: There are the non-lettered, which DPS usually use, the A-type which have no use whatsoever and the B-type which tanks prefer since they already have too much defense rating, so they stack power mods with high endurance. This means that only one of the three is used by most specs.

On PTS, we now have 20 additional mods for each of these types, called “Lethal Superior Mod 80R-X” (from R-1 to R-20) or Lethal Superior Mod 80AR-X.

As you can see in this Google Sheet these gear pieces are different in their stat distribution.

The same goes for all other gear pieces I listed above.

 

What is bad about this:

Let me now explain why and in what way these changes and additions to the gearing system are problematic.

1. If you want to get BiS gear, you would have to farm a tremendous amount of tech fragments, simply because of the heavily RNG reliant gearing system. Right now you are still getting warding mods as a dps, making this grind even more torturous. With the next PTS refresh we will have spec specific loot, which will dampen the grind a little bit, but it’s not nearly enough. Getting to BiS gear will take an insane amount of time with the current RNG lootboxes that contain mods, barrels, enhancements and so on. If you want to keep the RNG, give us separate lootboxes for mods, enhancements, armorings and so on. This would still mean that we can get 60 different mods and only one would be BiS, but the whole R-X shenanigans is a problem on its own.
    
   
2. The statpool on the mods (for example) is not consistent. The Lethal Mod R-2 and R-3 have a total of 728 mastery and power combined, whilst the R-1, R-5 and R-6 have 727 and the R-20 only has 722. These makes a large number of the non-lettered mods alone straight-out useless. Again, the mods are only one example. The same can be said about enhancements and other gear pieces. If the statpool is the same, you would always use the mods with more mastery since it’s practically impossible to reach the point of diminishing return on that stat anyway. There needs to be something else on mods so that the R-X affixes actually make sense.
    
   
3. The dps armorings (Superior Versatile Armoring 80) make no sense since all of the R-X variations get more endurance and less mastery. A DPS nor a healer would ever want this. All they do is increase the grind.
    
   
4. The stat distribution on the enhancement is a special case. Here I could understand different versions of the good alacrity enhancement (again as a example) that gives you less alacrity but more power. If scaled correctly this could be used to get closer to the required thresholds needed for the lower GCDs. This can be useful for accuracy as well. However, alacrity breakpoints are a meme anyway and should be removed so that we are able to min-max on more than two tertiary stats, one of which having a fixed stat score anyway.
    
   
5. In case you REALLY want to keep this system: The nomenclature is inconsistent.
   I recommend you change so that the lower the R-X number is the better the gear is, so that less experienced players have SOMETHING to indicate what they should prefer.
   The steps between the R-X versions (from R-1 to R-2 to R-3) give you different amount of mastery/power. Unlettered Lethal Mods as an example again: From R-2 to R-3 you lose 2 power and get 3 mastery, from R-19 to R-20 you lose 3 power and get 2 mastery. Additionally, R-5 and R-6 do have the exact same stats.
   

 

How this could be improved:

I think the best would be to go back to the current system on live. Additionally, I would remove the A-type mods as well as two of the three types of DPS enhancements, those that give you more endurance and less of the tertiary stat.

Furthermore, I’d consider adding enhancements as I described above for optimized stats for crossing the necessary thresholds.

The changes that are currently on PTS would make the gearing system a ridiculous cross between grinding and bitter disappointment and I desperately hope that the current PTS version is not intended and just an interim stage for testing for the best stat combination to put on the gear pieces.

 

I hope you all have a nice day!

Edited September 13, 2019 by Advieser

This is just idiotic, who in their right mind thought of adding more types of mods and enhancements with different stat pools. We already have plenty of useless ones on live. Confusing for new players and annoying to grind and min-max for everyone. There were already added lots of item ratings, since you did that why not just make 1 enhancement for each stat and 2 types for mods (remove A), decrease drop rate if you need to.

I've also observed one R-21 and one R-29. Their stats are really bad. Perhaps they are glitches? Otherwise, I agree as the majority of these affixes, or R-factor qualifiers as I've been calling them, have been between 1 and 20. R-1, R-2, R-3, R-11, R-13, and R-19 have been more common for me than others.

 

There are some interesting things in the spreadsheet. Mod 80 and Mod 80R-10 are identical. 80R-1, 80R-2, 80R-3, 80R-5, 80R-6 and 80R-9 could be BiS depending on what they are stacked with.

 

I did notice that R-16 on a Resistive Armoring yields identical +mastery and +endurance stats. And, they can show up on what would otherwise be DPS or healer gear. Higher R's on Resistive Armorings make them more like inferior Versatile Armorings widening stat variation even further. Mirroring, higher R affixes on Versatile Armorings move them closer to being Resistive.

 

For even more variation, I have two Lethal 80A mods that are comparatively weird. One is labeled Superior Lethal Mod 80A and one is labeled Lethal Superior Mod 80A. Stats are as follows:

 

Superior Lethal Mod 80A: (+451 mastery, +339 Endurance, +221 Power) This matches up with the spreadsheet.

Lethal Superior Mod 80A: (+451 mastery, +313 Endurance, +225 Power) When compared with the spreadsheet it is 30 points short on Power with no visible R affix. This must be glitched.

Edited September 8, 2019 by TerraStomper

The amount of RNG on moddable gear is just at ludicrous levels.

 

RNG to determine the level rating of the mod.

 

RNG to determine the type of the mod.

 

RNG to determine the stat version of the mod.

 

RNG to determine the amplifier on the mod.

 

And all this for every piece of moddable gear available, doesn't matter if it is a set bonus piece, or a green shell version.

 

What I think needs to be done is the 20 different versions (R-1 thru R-20) need to be removed from the game.

 

All set bonus gear needs to have all the mods in the shell be at the same level rating (so all 3 mods are at 306, not 1 at 306, 1 at 296, 1 at 284, which is how it is on the PTS currently). And all mods need to be the correct, non-lettered, stat version.

 

For the green shell moddable gear. All the mods in the shell be at the same level rating, but the mod can be any of the 3 stat versions that are in the live game (so non-lettered, A, B).

Edited September 8, 2019 by Flying-Brian

And lest we forget, in the prior patch RNG also determined the type of gear that dropped. At least class and discipline now steer that variable to what is appropriate for the randomly determined slot.

 

Prior to this patch, as a mercenary I got really tired fast getting assault cannons and blaster rifles of tankiness, shields of power+accuracy/alacrity, and foci, offhand lightsabers, shotguns, generators, and vibroknives of tankiness much of the time. The problem had been primarily with main hands, off hands and relics. This is still the case with relics. Main hands and off hand drop types are now appropriate for the class, but their stats can still end up useless or inappropriate for the chosen discipline.

 

Does anyone want a 306 off hand blaster with defense+absorb? Its brand new. Dropped this morning. Never used, nor will it be, except maybe for gambling with another merc alt or gunslinger at the tech fragment vendors.

Edited September 8, 2019 by TerraStomper

Yes, my BF has also been testing this and has discovered the ridiculous amount of variance in all modifications, earpieces, implants. He has his own table he's been working on.

 

This is going to make BiSing a living hell.

 

What was wrong with how things were in 5.0? Why are you guys RNGing modifications so much? :(:(:(

 

Once again, we do not need this much RNG. Having multiple set bonuses and Tacticals is enough of an artificial time gate. The types of players who BiS are also the types of players who will earn and use multiple set bonuses and tacticals. Why make their lives miserable? Having too much variance in gearing will just put players off wanting to even play the game.

 

Please just stop with all the RNG already. It is getting way too out of hand.

So in simple words in case the developers don't get it - we are getting way too much junk, it would be a lot more enjoyable if the drops actually felt rewarding, even if they're rare and less items drops from stuff (to a degree). It's extremely annoying to get 21 mods just to throw all of them away and use 1. Disintegration of gear gives terrible amounts of tech fragments and it's a real pain to do anyway.

Most importantly I also hope that the drops from the hardest operations will actually be the very best way to gear without any doubts, ideally tokens from which we can get what we actually want or there is plenty of useful stuff dropping, not blue downgrades with A mods and high endurance enhancements that are crap on all fronts. Though most nim raiders will probably find themselves farming hammer station at the beginning of expansion once again.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Restoman

This expansion will be a nightmare for BIS min-maxer. Ridiculous this is not a system for gamer its literaly a chinese mobile game lottery RNG system

First off again thank you for the effort. Its early i'm still on coffee injection mode but assuming i'm reading this all right her are my thoughts...

 

#1 Well, the first sentence says it all really, lower the RNG aspect of it the rest falls in line.

Dont get me started about warding mods in dps gear, please, this is not only silly it literally jump starts the RNG process and should never, ever, happen, period.

 

#2 My issue here isnt the variation in that there should be some to allow for customization and min maxing etc... BUT, the values on the same level should add up in terms of total point allocations and have only shifted values between the stat pools.

One thing i didnt see here though, were all of these of the same items level and rarity? Im assuming yes on ilvl and if true that has to be an oversight as that should not be the case that the stat pool varies on the same ilvl without some other benefit unless were talking about green/blue/purple variations.

 

Nothing really on the rest.

 

For me the thing is this, there isnt time for them to do any kind of full overhaul, were going to get some variation on this at this point i think so were going to have to pick our battles and I think it wise to focus on the largest issue, the RNG fiasco, more than almost anything else.

 

There has to be some kind of linear easy to understand path that has a reachable goal without requiring luck.

 

BW, please, If you fix nothing else about this, dont give us RNG to get another RNG to get another tiered RNG system, if you do, you will lose players, its really that simple. At this point PvPers hate it as it will not be an even footing with some gearing faster than others creating mismatches and PvEers hate it as it will be an endless nightmare to min/max. Basically no one likes this at this point. Please, listen.

 

Cant you just see genchat now... LFG PvP premade must have right mods... lol

@op

 

I was attempting to put the same exact spreadsheet together. Since you have already shared yours my suggestions is to add a column for “Bonus Damage”. This will give you the best indicator of which armorings, hilts, barrels, mods, and enhancements will be the most sought after. In case you forgot, the formula for bonus damage = mastery * .2 + power * .22

 

- vicadin

I've been hesitating to write a post about mods (shorthand for all modification inserts for gear) because I'm so overwhelmed by how unmanageable this is in its current state, but here goes...

 

1) There are too many mod variants - thanks to OP for laying out exactly how serious a problem this currently is

 

2) There is no way to choose which mod one gets, so RNG x 20 just for a single mod. That means RNG x 480 for a full set of min/max. 'Nuff said...

 

3) No excuse for a fluctuating stat pool, I'm assuming this is a bug and will be fixed

 

I do appreciate the progress that's been made with gearing so far, I can see that BW is listening and some things are moving in the right direction. Mods and moddable gear, however, remain a looming issue and need to be addressed effectively.

 

To sum up my recommendations:

 

1) Remove all unmoddable gear from lvl 75

2) Reduce mod variants significantly, there is no need for micro adjustments, and commenters have effectively identified useless variants

3) Include a 100% ZERO RNG reliable way of acquiring mods The only place mods should be RNG is loot drops (both in loot dropped gear and when mods themselves drop).

 

Gear grind for player retention has already been proven ineffective and unpopular in several iterations of SWTOR. Have some faith that we'll stick around even after we're fully geared!

So out of all of the 80R-1 thru 80R-20 versions of enhancements, there is 1 version that has some value for min/max numbers, and then only when they are being used when you will be in level scaled content (so older ops).

 

The 80R-1 (level306) versions of enhancements have 313end , 255pwr, 451tertiary. Since End and Pwr are capped in the scaled content, there extra 18 points of tertiary stat over the un-lettered enhancement version has some (minor) use.

 

But that extra few points is NOT worth the trouble to grind out. I RE'd 10 stacks of 9999 medpacks for tech fragments buying the random mod box. I got a total of 5 80R-1 enhancements (1 acc, 2 alac, 2 crit).

Edited September 10, 2019 by Flying-Brian

It is going to take a lot of time to get close.

Right now my toon is almost 306

12080 mastery with buffs

15588 Endurance with buffs

6613 power

2088 crit

1249 alacrity

1524 Accuracy

using proficient stim 240acc99 crit, two crit gems and two 228 augments

missing 12 augments for 1152 points and 780 endurance.

not sure what the new augs have and the new stim is 24 more acc 10 more crit.

gives me roughly without changing gear about 6037 to use for those stats

1593 would get me 110.007% accuracy.

Around 3200 alacrity gives 15.35% closest I got so far was 3154 at 15.21% or over at 3585 at 16.58%

3200+1593 leaves only around 1244 for crit

 

1226 gives me 31.56% critical and 60.25% multiplier on my assassin.

 

So even if we could move the numbers around how we want them one of the stats will be low. if you go for the 1.3 GCD. My estimates puts about 300 to 350 more points on full 306 and then whatever the new rank 11 augments will be.

 

But you are very right in that we do not need all these other mods, or enhancements muddying up the water as is.

@op

 

I was attempting to put the same exact spreadsheet together. Since you have already shared yours my suggestions is to add a column for “Bonus Damage”. This will give you the best indicator of which armorings, hilts, barrels, mods, and enhancements will be the most sought after. In case you forgot, the formula for bonus damage = mastery * .2 + power * .22

 

- vicadin

 

I‘d find that to be counter-productive since adding bonus damage to the sheet would suggest that high-power pieces are to be preferred over high-mastery pieces. But since mastery also increases your critical chance, it is the one that should be taken, if given the choice. In short: I think that would be counter-intuitive but thank you for the suggestion nonetheless.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Advieser

I have been on the fence about high alacrity build in 6.0. In PTS I tested it, and at first it seemed like the way to go, but as I got the 'new' rotations down a bit better and I had a look at the lower crit rates I'm strongly leaning towards a higher crit build, leaving alacrity at 1.4. That seems also to align with other testers' results, so I don't feel like I'm off base.

 

I prefer the feel of play at 1.3, so I really hope BW rethinks the thresholds, but for pure DPS output in ops I suspect 1.4 is the better choice as things stand right now.

I don't mind RNG to a point, but I don't feel like there is a need for 20+ different Mod variations. If BW really did this, please just go back to the normal 3 mod types for DPS/Heals (lethal, Lethal A, and Lethal B mods), and 3 for tanking (Warding, Warding A, and Warding B mods). We already have 6 possibilities for mods, + 2 for armorings, not to mention however many more Enhancements we have on Live. We don't need you to add more then we already have.

 

Edit: If you are so determined to have so many Variations, Then make it possible for us to CHOOSE what armorings, mods, and enhancements we want by putting them on a vendor for direct purchase. Otherwise it's unacceptable having them be RNG based.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Toraak

Bump, couldnt agree more

If I remember correctly, the blue grade 11 augments have +95 to the tertiary stat and purple ones are +108. To make one blue one requires requires a bit less than two weeks of a character making their personal conquest goals, plus the guild making its conquest goals, or 5 weeks of personal conquest grinding. The purple ones require double that. That is to make one augment, or two if the craft critically succeeds. We might as well continue to use the 228s (+96 to tertiary stat) as the 236s and 240s are nerfed heavily (the 240s are only +58 to tertiary stat on the PTS) particularly given that most content is under Level Synch.

 

Certain combinations of R enhancements and gold grade 11 augments may have a chance of meeting the stat budget for a 1.3 GCD, but I do not know whether gold grade 11 augments exist. If they do, I guess their tertiary stat bonus may be somewhere between +111 and +121 at the outside. Might this be enough?

 

Reachable Tertiary Stat Totals

228 Augments, 306 Enhancements (e.g. Proficient 80AR-1), Grade 10 Proficient Stim, 2 Eviscerating Crystals:

7*451 + 3*431 + 14*96 + 240 + 99 + 2*41 = 6215 tertiary points

 

Purple Grade 11 Augments, 306 Enhancements, Grade 10 Proficient Stim, 2 Eviscerating Crystals:

7*451 + 3*431 + 14*108 + 240 + 99 + 2*41 = 6383 tertiary points

 

Imagined Gold Grade 11 Augments, 306 Enhancements, Grade 10 Proficient Stim, 2 Eviscerating Crystals:

7*451 + 3*431 + 14*121 + 240 + 99 + 2*41 = 6509 tertiary points

 

Estimated Target Tertiary Stat Goals:

Accuracy Rating: 1270

Alacrity Rating: 3200

Critical Rating: 3000

Total: 7470 Tertiary stats --- Not Enough ---

Edited September 12, 2019 by TerraStomper
answering own question

I found 1589 is the Accuracy 110.00% mark with the 70 stim giving 240 you need 1349.

3258 gives my hatred assassin 15.55% alacrity and the set that gives 2% is not working or is not showing the adjustment or I would only need about 2200 to get over the 15.35% mark if the sets work together.

The sets really need to work or show they are working.

I will probably run 1349 accuracy, 1300+ alacrity for the 1.4 GCD and the rest crit about 2800 as a 1.3 GCD puts my assassin at only 1147 crit 27.2 and 59.75 modifier very low for crit too low.

With the mods being random on their stats it is hare to show a good minimum balance without the former fixed numbers.

 

I also believe the Amplifiers are affecting the stats you get as some with high amplifier numbers have poor power or tertiary stat. And I do not think they are working at all. Plus seeing thirty five different amplifiers is confusing and should show as a combination of the buffs they give. Like I have six life stealing buffs and I know I have them so cant I get the total percentage in one spot? I don't need to know where the amp is.

I found 1589 is the Accuracy 110.00% mark with the 70 stim giving 240 you need 1349.

3258 gives my hatred assassin 15.55% alacrity and the set that gives 2% is not working or is not showing the adjustment or I would only need about 2200 to get over the 15.35% mark if the sets work together.

The sets really need to work or show they are working.

I will probably run 1349 accuracy, 1300+ alacrity for the 1.4 GCD and the rest crit about 2800 as a 1.3 GCD puts my assassin at only 1147 crit 27.2 and 59.75 modifier very low for crit too low.

With the mods being random on their stats it is hare to show a good minimum balance without the former fixed numbers.

 

Thanks for the better target numbers. This means alacrity needs to be near 3241 to hit a 1.3 second GCD (15.38%).

 

So the desired tertiary stat targets are more like:

 

Accuracy: 1589

Alacrity: 3241

Critical: 3000 (or more)

Total: 7830

 

There are not enough tertiary stats from gear, set bonuses or buffs to get anywhere close to these without sacrifice.

 

In PTS 1.5 I noticed the 2% alacrity set bonuses were working. Alacrity from enhancements were +440 instead of +431 and 286 augments were +110 instead of +108, making the total alacrity stat on an alacrity gear piece +550. I haven't tried a +2% alacrity set on PTS 2.0, having opted for +2% critical instead as we get more out of a +2% set bonus matched with the stat that is stacked the most.

Edited September 13, 2019 by TerraStomper

I updated the link in the original post. The list now includes every item except one implant/earpiece. Here you go.

 

Although it really doesn't pertain this thread, I thought I might answer some questions people were having about the optimal stat distribution.

• You reach 110% accuracy at 1589-1591. You can play around with it using this formula: Acc%(AccRating)=(30*(1-(1-(0,01/0,3))^((AccRating/75)/2,015)))/100+0,01
  
• For specs without alacrity buff the thresholds are at:
  -1,4 GCD | 7,143% | 1213 Alacrity Rating
  -1,3 GCD | 15,385 | 3206 Alacrity Rating
  
• For specs with a 3% alacrity buff:
  -1,4 GCD | 663 Alacrity Rating
  -1,3 GCD | 2374 Alacrity Rating
  
• For specs with a 5% alacrity or the 5% alacrity guild buff:
  - 1,4 GCD | 331
  - 1,3 GCD | 1895
  

The way I see it the 1,4 gcd is to be preferred in every case EXCEPT if you have a 5% alacrity buff. Here is the formula for alacrity: =30*(1-(1-(0,01/0,3))^(AlacRating/75)/2,016))

So right now, you would first get the accuracy cap, than the alacrity cap that is best for your spec and than put the rest of your stats in crit.

 

 

P.S. I now added a tab in the linked google sheet called "stat formulas", in case any of you are interested in that kind of thing.

Thank you for the work you've put into this. Assuming I end up attempting to gear up for OPS when 6.0 drops, this will be invaluable.

 

Wish we'd get some clarification as to the logic behind the amount of modifications we're getting. Was there a thread I missed when the masses of players rose up against the low number of mods available? Who is this system supposed to be fun for?

I dunno man, is this a case of company owners telling BW to do this nonsense RNG, or else?

 

Heaps of ppl r going to be leaving with this kind of mess in 6.0. I for sure will be one of them. Y is gearing being so overcomplicated? The game is about having fun, enjoying ur time with ur group if grouped and content in general. This idea of the game is about gearing is being force fed to us. No! Stop! Id like to enjoy my preferred content (hardmare ops) w/o having to spend stupid amounts of time on getting the right pieces. If i wanna gamble im going to go to a casino, not play an MMO. Sheesh.